WW - OO JL : Game Over

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:00 pm

Jeez. It's only been "morning" for a few hours, and already you guys are poking each other.

Nice.

Chaosraven wrote:Batman strolls into the Meeting Room and drops a card onto the table...

...it's a Joker, with a LexCorp Logo backing.

"We have a problem, and it's right here in our Headquarters."

Yeah, we have a problem. Bats keeps leaving his little love notes from the Joker lying around.

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:01 pm

I do think Austin's got a point about Scoop

not being able to read, though.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:01 pm

Man that was a long night.

Chaos - might want to update the Day in the header.

Scoop20906 wrote:Ok, finally read the rules. Looks like we have no true priest so I think I am correct in assuming there was a conversion last night and no protection.

Green Arrow could have shot a normal but I am assuming that Green Arrow's shot would be announced by Chaos.

I want to vote for someone but too many targets at present. Still...

Vote Stessier

He has to be a villain sooner or later.

What do you mean by "true Priest"? Wonder Woman can find out roles, can't she? Albeit, only once per person...maybe that's what you mean?

And why would the Shot come today? There's the best chance of hitting a Special when no one is known.

Is there a Sorcerer role that I missed?? You seem a little confused.

As for the vote...I was expecting it to come from Unagi after the little...uh...misunderstanding on the island.

triggercut wrote:Y'know, you may be on to something there. Even if he didn't start as a bad guy, stessier would be an excellent choice for turning to the dark side.

Stessier

You'd think the dice would finally fall my way, wouldn't you? Or (if you're not Kreagor), that I'd be a good conversion? Always a Special, never a bride.

Well, except a Special wouldn't be converted, they'd die...but still, someone at least try it!!

Sectoid wrote:
Austin wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Ok, finally read the rules. Looks like we have no true priest so I think I am correct in assuming there was a conversion last night and no protection.

Wonder Woman.

Oh and... Interesting...
Yes. Very. What other adjective could we use there? Hrm...
Devious? Luscious? Super?
Edit: Forgot my point, got lost in the moment. Austin

Uh, ok. Please tell me the adjectives have to do with the game and not that you were picturing Austin while typing...

And I see Scoop went back and re-read about Wonder Woman, so I guess you can ignore that top part.

Anyway, let's see if we can get RevHempus

to explain what Newcastle was smelling. Be crummy to lose our Super Hero Accredidation because of his Lab Experiments...

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:05 pm

Wait a minute...Newcastle posted and didn't try and figure out what happened last night.

What's up with that?!? I think I know he's going to say it was a protection, but it would still be nice to hear it...then OO will finally feel like home again...

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:09 pm

There are accuse tags folks.

If you want to accuse someone, just surround their name with the magic accusation brackets.

Code: Select all

[accuse]Dog name[/accuse]

Profit.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:21 pm

Wonder Woman - Each night, Wonder Woman can compel truth regarding the Role of any other Player. Wonder Woman cannot check the same Player twice in the Game.

---not herself. Once per Player

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:22 pm

First off, how can you not know what Newcastle was smelling? It is me after all.

Second, since Scoop did say he missed me, I guess I can't really vote for him first.................. Ha Ha who am I kidding yes I can.......................

Scoop

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:23 pm

Vote Count - Monday

Scoop20906 acc stessier(1)
triggercut acc stessier(2)
Newcastle acc Scoop20906(1)
Sectoid acc Austin(1)
Austin acc Sectoid(1)
tru1cy acc Austin(2)
Semaj acc triggercut(1)
Lassr acc JimDave(1)
Sean, the Minister of KtSP acc Scoop20906(2)
stessier acc RevHempus71(1)
RevHempus71 acc Scoop20906

Vote to Somehow Kill the Evil Ones: 9?

Against stessier(2): Scoop20906, triggercut
Against Scoop20906(3): Newcastle, Sean the Minister of KtSP, RevHempus71
Against Austin(2): Sectoid, tru1cy
Against Sectoid(1): Austin
Against triggercut(1): Semaj
Against JimDave(1): Lassr
Against RevHempus71(1): stessier

No Votes Registered: Mr. Bubbles, Remus West, Kraegor, Grundbegriff, JimDave, Unagi

Let me know if I messed anything up.

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:26 pm

Austin wrote:There are accuse tags folks.

If you want to accuse someone, just surround their name with the magic accusation brackets.
Code: Select all
[accuse]Dog name[/accuse]
Profit.

The fact you know this proves you are evil imho.

Chaosraven · Post by **Chaosraven** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:30 pm

Vote count looks right to me (though yes it's easier to find if people use accuse)

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:31 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:
Austin wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Ok, finally read the rules....
Wonder Woman.
Oh and... Interesting...
I am wrong, thanks Austin.

I guess you read the rules, but you didn't actually *read* the rules? You do this to yourself, you realize this right Scoop?

Scoop20906 wrote:Ok, so there is a chance then that there was no conversion after all. Smart money is on conversion at present.

I agree. The odds favor a conversion... and I don't see any harm in moving forward as if there was a conversion. If there wasn't we'll likely figure that all out later.

Scoop20906 wrote:Also, interesting, it looks like Wonder Woman can only protect each player ONCE the ENTIRE GAME. Neat rule twist.

If you look really carefully, you will see that Wonder Woman is actually a man named Desmond !

Newcastle wrote:and because of the quick draw McDraw action ....
scoop

Quick Draw McGraw... Ya' butcher.

stessier wrote:As for the vote...I was expecting it to come from Unagi after the little...uh...misunderstanding on the island.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:38 pm

since neither wonderwoman nor her scan target will be told if there was a protect we had best proceed as though there was a conversion until/unless there is another night without a kill. Then we will know one of the nights was a conversion and the other was a save but not which came first. Second thing to keep in mind. Wonderwoman is told roles. This means that if she finds a super she can be sure they will never become a bad guy but if she finds an aquaman all bets are off. Frankly, until there is another night of no kill we are better off because Wonderwoman can trust all of her scans regardless. If last night was a save of a normal and there is another no kill then that normal becomes suspect.

All that aside, we can win this game today. Or set it up to be a certain win.
17 players.
8 supers.
9 unknown.
Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

only problem with this is Joker's bomb. Or Green Arrow hitting a bad guy (hardly a problem in my eyes).

Someday I will read carefully through the rules BEFORE a game starts so that I can point out the broken areas before game time.

Also, Austin corrected Scoop regarding Wonderwoman but failed to do so regarding Green Arrow who can only shoot during the day (at least thats how I read the rules on him) but Scoop implies the ability to shoot at night.

for now Semaj

Semaj · Post by **Semaj** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:45 pm

Remus West wrote:a whole lot of babbeling, little insight....

for now Semaj

You are just mad because I never use remuscide properly, aren't ya?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:45 pm

Remus West wrote: Also, Austin corrected Scoop regarding Wonderwoman but failed to do so regarding Green Arrow who can only shoot during the day (at least thats how I read the rules on him) but Scoop implies the ability to shoot at night.

Actually, I think that was me.

And not only did I not correct him, I agreed with it. I messed up my Green Guys (Lantern/Arrow).

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:47 pm

Remus West wrote: Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

uh, I hope this wouldn't be without discussion. Green arrow shoots Wonder Woman would suck a big one.

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:48 pm

Now that felt good. Sorry Scoop, had too......

So, for an actual vote, Stessier

First off because he has to be bad sooner or later. Secondly, triggercut principle.

I agree on playing as if the conversion occured.

A quick update as many as nine needed to lynch the first badguy. So lets get this game right. Since Scoops game has been, seemingly, abandoned. I need this one to get off the snye. So, du du dunt ta du

CHARGE.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:53 pm

Wow lots to chew on. I think Im gonna hold off on my vote until tonight when I can sit down and see who is trying to commit Remuscide so early.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:56 pm

Lassr wrote:
Remus West wrote: Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

uh, I hope this wouldn't be without discussion. Green arrow shoots Wonder Woman would suck a big one.

Should we choose to go that route I would advise Green Arrow to hold off on his shot until all the Supers have come forward. He then shoots one of the folks not claiming a role. This confirms both Green Arrow and his target. Shooting before all Supers are out would be stupid.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:57 pm

Lassr wrote:
Remus West wrote: Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

uh, I hope this wouldn't be without discussion. Green arrow shoots Wonder Woman would suck a big one.

No, all the Supers are out, so no fear of hitting her. And if someone contests...well, he doesn't have to shoot and then we have narrowed it down for at least one of the Baddies.

I stink at math. Will this actually work? I think if there is no bomb, then we win 2 knowns v. 1 unknown on the last day. With the bomb, then it becomes a vote at 2 known vs. 2 unknown. Guess wrong and it is a loss.

Hmmm. Depends who Wonder Woman scanned last night, right? If she didn't find a special, then that means we win for sure. The Arrow gives us a 2 person advantage. Game Over. Right?

tru1cy · Post by **tru1cy** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:57 pm

austin

Newcastle · Post by **Newcastle** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 4:59 pm

stessier wrote:Wait a minute...Newcastle posted and didn't try and figure out what happened last night.

What's up with that?!? I think I know he's going to say it was a protection, but it would still be nice to hear it...then OO will finally feel like home again...

and here I was thinking that it could be a protection! Man I really hate being this predictable if you know thats what I think automaticaly, or at least keep it as a distinguishable possibility.

I think we can't overlook that it could have been a protection of some sort. The fact that Wonder Woman can only scan 1 time is pretty tough stuff, however how many times do we have the same person scanned twice.... granted we can easily just lynch the person in question...ok stream of thought here....lets say that it was a protection....it also means that the womans scan is still in question...by converting this early the bad guys lose a move they can do....just a thought ...and yeah the last paragraph was brought to you because I was standing too clsoe to the lab a few minutes ago.

/looks at Rev...

"i really would hate to lose my superhero accredidation, wyouldn't you...we're role models, role models....not bowl tokers.

...geez

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:17 pm

3 bad guys...

17 players...

"shoot one"

Monday Night 16 players. Special Dies.
Tuesday D: 15 players. Lynch 1.
Tuesday N: 14 players. Special Dies.
Wed D: 13 players. Lynch 1.
Wed N: 12 players. special Dies.
Thurs D: 11 players. Lynch 1.
Thurs N: 10 players. special dies.
Friday D: 9 players. lynch 1.
Friday N: 8 players. special dies.
SAT D: 7 players. lynch 1.
SAT N: 6 players. special dies
Sun D: 5 players. lynch 1.
game over.

roughly 7 days. thus 7 misses.

8 unknowns.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:17 pm

Remus West wrote:All that aside, we can win this game today. Or set it up to be a certain win.
17 players.
8 supers.
9 unknown.
Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

only problem with this is Joker's bomb. Or Green Arrow hitting a bad guy (hardly a problem in my eyes).

My understanding is that Green Arrow could kill a good guy too.

Remus West wrote:Also, Austin corrected Scoop regarding Wonderwoman but failed to do so regarding Green Arrow who can only shoot during the day (at least thats how I read the rules on him) but Scoop implies the ability to shoot at night.

What we should be asking ourselves is this: Did Scoop actually read the rules when he said he did - or was that lie he was careless in saying because it paled in comparison to the deception he was truly focusing on...

(Scoop was probably transfering the Green Lantern's Day/Night power with Green Arrow)

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:21 pm

Sorry, I see every point I made was basically covered later.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:22 pm

stessier wrote:
Lassr wrote:
Remus West wrote: Green Arrow shoots an unknown and does not kill them = suddenly known Aquaman.

9 "knowns"
8 unknowns.

uh, I hope this wouldn't be without discussion. Green arrow shoots Wonder Woman would suck a big one.
No, all the Supers are out, so no fear of hitting her. And if someone contests...well, he doesn't have to shoot and then we have narrowed it down for at least one of the Baddies.

I stink at math. Will this actually work? I think if there is no bomb, then we win 2 knowns v. 1 unknown on the last day. With the bomb, then it becomes a vote at 2 known vs. 2 unknown. Guess wrong and it is a loss.

Hmmm. Depends who Wonder Woman scanned last night, right? If she didn't find a special, then that means we win for sure. The Arrow gives us a 2 person advantage. Game Over. Right?

Exactly. If Wonderwoman scanned a non-special then we have a two person advantage. Except for if it was a protection last night because then they could convert the scanee tonight. Also, odds are that it was a conversion last night. With only 7 possible conversion targets to begin with (8 supers and 2 bad guys) the odds are against the bad guys hitting an Aquaman on demand. The nice thing about intentionally shooting a normal today is that normal can NOT be targeted tonight. Thus if tonight is a non-kill we still have a normal added to our trusted group.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:23 pm

3 bad guys...

17 players...

"shoot one"
lynch one

Monday Night 15 players. Special Dies.
Tuesday D: 14 players. Lynch 1.
Tuesday N: 13 players. Special Dies.
Wed D: 12 players. Lynch 1.
Wed N: 11 players. special Dies.
Thurs D: 10 players. Lynch 1.
Thurs N: 9 players. special dies.
Friday D: 9 players. lynch 1. joker explodes
Friday N: 7 players. special dies.
SAT D: 6 players. lynch 1.
SAT N: 5 players. special dies
Sun D: 4 players. lynch 1.
game over.

roughly 7 days. thus 7 misses.

8 unknowns.

Kraegor · Post by **Kraegor** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:24 pm

blah another error... whatever.

statistically, yeah there's not much wiggle room for the evil masterminds.

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:31 pm

Remus West wrote:Exactly. If Wonderwoman scanned a non-special then we have a two person advantage. Except for if it was a protection last night because then they could convert the scanee tonight. Also, odds are that it was a conversion last night. With only 7 possible conversion targets to begin with (8 supers and 2 bad guys) the odds are against the bad guys hitting an Aquaman on demand. The nice thing about intentionally shooting a normal today is that normal can NOT be targeted tonight. Thus if tonight is a non-kill we still have a normal added to our trusted group.

You may be on to something here Remus.

Why hasn't Grundbegriff chimed in on it?

Sean, Minister of KtSP · Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:31 pm

I like the Quick Win for the Good Guys plan.

The question then becomes how do we convince everybody to out themselves?

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:34 pm

Kraegor wrote:3 bad guys...

17 players...

"shoot one"

Monday Night 16 players. Special Dies.
Tuesday D: 15 players. Lynch 1.
Tuesday N: 14 players. Special Dies.
Wed D: 13 players. Lynch 1.
Wed N: 12 players. special Dies.
Thurs D: 11 players. Lynch 1.
Thurs N: 10 players. special dies.
Friday D: 9 players. lynch 1.
Friday N: 8 players. special dies.
SAT D: 7 players. lynch 1.
SAT N: 6 players. special dies
Sun D: 5 players. lynch 1.
game over.

roughly 7 days. thus 7 misses.

8 unknowns.

Bad math.

17 players
8 "Supers" = 8 "knowns"
add in one scanee = 9 knowns
add in one normal shot by Green Arrow (he can only kill Supers or Villains not Aquaman) = 10 "known"s
Since we can not be sure of Wonderwoman's scan being normal lets call it 9 known. Means there are 8 unknown.
Monday lynch - 9-7
Monday kill - 8-7
Tuesday lynch - 8-6
Tuesday kill - 7-6
Wednesday lynch - 7-5
Wedensday kill - 6-5
Thurday lynch - 6-4
Thursday kill - 5-4
Friday lynch - 5-3 even if we have missed everytime there are only three bad guys at this point
Friday kill - 4-3
Saturday lynch can not miss - 4-2
Saturday kill - 3-2
Sunday lynch can not miss - 3-1
Sunday kill - 2-1
Monday lynch can not miss - 2-0 Superheros win.

Like I said though, the issue is the Bomb the Joker possesses.

If Wonderwoman scanned a normal then we start at 10-6 and even Joker's Bomb can not turn the tide in their favor.

Also, you mention 7 misses. If the Supers come forward we can not miss 7 times as there are only 7 Aquaman players to start. If one was converted then there are now 6. If Green Arrow shoots one then there are 5. Means we can only miss 5 times.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:36 pm

Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:I like the Quick Win for the Good Guys plan.

The question then becomes how do we convince everybody to out themselves?

We wait to hear more folks thoughts on the idea then Superman outs himself first. He goes first because if the plan goes crazy we can lynch him to test his claim.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:36 pm

RevHempus71 wrote:First off, how can you not know what Newcastle was smelling? It is me after all.

Second, since Scoop did say he missed me, I guess I can't really vote for him first.................. Ha Ha who am I kidding yes I can....................... Scoop

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:38 pm

Remus West wrote:
Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:I like the Quick Win for the Good Guys plan.

The question then becomes how do we convince everybody to out themselves?
We wait to hear more folks thoughts on the idea then Superman outs himself first. He goes first because if the plan goes crazy we can lynch him to test his claim.

There could be an argument about letting Superman be the ONE that does NOT come foreward, let us stumble on him... let him save the end game - should it get that far....

Unagi · Post by **Unagi** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:39 pm

Although, he could (I imagine this is true) be killed by the Arrow..... just immune to lynches - not to arrows.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:39 pm

Actually I see another small flaw in the idea. If Green Arrow shoots a Bad Guy we do not get to add to our "known" pool. Thus, potentially, leaving us at 8-8 with 2 bad guys out there and Wonderwoman dead in the coming night. If Wonderwoman scanned a normal though we would maintain our lead in knowns/unknowns.

Mr Bubbles · Post by **Mr Bubbles** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 5:55 pm

Sean, Minister of KtSP wrote:I like the Quick Win for the Good Guys plan.

The question then becomes how do we convince everybody to out themselves?

A solid plan should be convincing enough. Of course a bit of discussion on the math of the situation would be well in hand.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:18 pm

RevHempus71 wrote:A quick update as many as nine needed to lynch the first badguy. So lets get this game right. Since Scoops game has been, seemingly, abandoned. I need this one to get off the snye. So, du du dunt ta du CHARGE.

I'm not sure what you mean about the "get this game right" part, but your vote shows you're starting off poorly.

And for Scoop's game, might want to check the end. He posted all the roles and it would have been a heck of a game.

And since you've piped up, as it were, withdraw RevHempus

JimDave

I've never heard of you and you're awfully quiet. Did he even post since the game has begun? I don't remember anything.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:19 pm

Newcastle wrote:
stessier wrote:Wait a minute...Newcastle posted and didn't try and figure out what happened last night.

What's up with that?!? I think I know he's going to say it was a protection, but it would still be nice to hear it...then OO will finally feel like home again...
and here I was thinking that it could be a protection! Man I really hate being this predictable if you know thats what I think automaticaly, or at least keep it as a distinguishable possibility.

You're supposed to put a smiley in there so I know you are kidding. You are kidding, right???

RevHempus71 · Post by **RevHempus71** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:25 pm

withdraw Stessier

I am willing to discuss more this idea of Remus'. The numbers would suggest there is a way to break the system, and Remus is good at breaking stuff......

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Thu Jun 26, 2008 6:26 pm

Remus West wrote:Exactly. If Wonderwoman scanned a non-special then we have a two person advantage. Except for if it was a protection last night because then they could convert the scanee tonight. Also, odds are that it was a conversion last night. With only 7 possible conversion targets to begin with (8 supers and 2 bad guys) the odds are against the bad guys hitting an Aquaman on demand. The nice thing about intentionally shooting a normal today is that normal can NOT be targeted tonight. Thus if tonight is a non-kill we still have a normal added to our trusted group.

I see you've also done some math on this below. What happens if the Baddies fake WW after she comes out? If we choose poorly, we would lose 2 Specials before getting the Baddie (1 wrong lynch, 1 night kill). If we guess right, the Baddie will likely go boom.

Can you do the math with a Wrong Lynch and an explosion (which is the absolute worse case)?