theohall wrote:Don't know the odds, but this happened to me last night. (in one of the free games, no real money involved, all internet-based).
In points-only games, it's more likely to happen. When there isn't a downside to losing hands, folks tend to play more hands just because they are made up of suited cards.
90 player tournament, 1500 chip start, 8 players left at my table, blinds at 15/30 still 3rd hand (folded the first two), one player was out after going all-in on crap on the first hand.
(Don't know the right word, but I'm 3rd after the BB)
Everyone's got their own way of phrasing seats at the table, but for consistency's sake I use the following:
The dealer is "on the button."
The person before the dealer is always the "cutoff" (CU).
The person before the cutoff is always the "hijack" (HJ).
The person before the hijack is always late middle position (LMP).
The person before LMP is always middle position (MP).
The person before MP is always early middle position (EMP).
Anyone before these seats is considered to be in early position (EP).
Relative positions are the two blinds (SB one after the dealer, BB two after the dealer), and under the gun (UTG) being the first person to act. At a full table of 8, 9, 10+, the two blinds and UTG are also in EP (but I'll rarely refer to them that way). Generally there isn't a whole lot of different strategic adjustment for folks who are 6+ positions ahead of the button (doesn't matter if you're 8 before the dealer or 6 seats before), so "EP" is good enough in those situations. *BUT* if you're 8 ahead of the dealer *and* already in for some of the blind money, well then *that* makes a difference strategically (so I'll refer to those seats by their relative positioning: SB or BB).
Other folks won't make the distinction between the middle positions, or jimmy about the dividing line between middle and late positions (a term I don't use), so you can't fall in love with any specific term for any specific seat. When I read other people's poker stories or strategy advice, I always have to mentally convert it into my own scheme, above. *Then* I can follow along with the action.
So, at a table of eight, it goes: BUTTON SB BB person person YOU person person. That means you're in LMP (in my world, at least).
My hand: Qc 6c
And in a money game, fourth hand in a tournament with folks I don't have a good bead on their play, Q6s is a fold for me. An easy one!
Flop: Kc 10c 3c
Holy crap! a flop flush?? Great. And the K is already out there as well? So odds are no one is going to have Ac and some other club, right?
Indeed! That's definitely an above-average flop for you. You've got the second nuts (and could catch perfect to make the absolute nuts, if the Jc and Ac or Jc and 9c are the next two cards!). Chances are very slim that you're behind. Knowing how the preflop betting went (who called, raised, and from what position) can help you figure out if/who may have an ace, including the possibility of the
.
I raise 3xBB, get 2 calls and the button goes All-In. I'm thinking, they gotta be playing K or 10 or some combo in some way. And this is the person that went All-In on alot less and won the first hand. So - Call (which is All-In as well). The other folks fold.
He had Ac 2c. Odds on that gotta be way low, so I don't feel bad about losing, just wish it hadn't been on the 3rd hand of the tournament.
Indeed. I think if you make this call 100 times (were the exact situation to come up again), you'd end up significantly ahead in the deal, you happened to get unlucky. How unlucky, you may ask?
Well, on the flop, you've seen 5 cards out of 52. 47 cards are out there that you don't know, and your opponent holds two of them. One of those two *has* to be the
for you to have problems, and (if he's got two random cards), the chance of that is 1 out of 47 (just over 2%). The chance of his *other* card also being a club is 7/46 (there are seven clubs left in the deck unspoken for,
, and 46 cards remain unknown). So the chance of both of these independent outcomes being true is (1/47) * (7/46) = 7/2162 = 0.32%
That's pretty slim.
The rest of the evening went better. 976 player tournament, finished 40th, - and yes, Snyder's system does work well to place in the top 10% of a tournament even on the free game things once you get past the idiots in the first 10-20 hands.
Playing in free-money games (after the idiots are gone) has to be a fun way to play that style. Though in free-money games, folks are going to be more inclined to call you and a big part of his style is preying on players who are hesitant to put all their chips on the line. So when you go on to say:
Style has to change later though when other players at the table are playing the same way.
That makes a lot of sense. Snyder's TPF method should be even more effective when there's consequences for folks going broke (such as their being money on the line).
Can't afford to gamble with real money yet, so if I can manage to establish a bankroll by improving through free play - game on!
Awesome! I managed to get kick started on Poker Stars in just this manner (though I've since squandered that startup money, and am now playing profitably with my money on Full Tilt — leaving me with little incentive to try to re-establish a presence on P*)
Good advice and good reading here. Keep up the suggestions and advice.
I love talking about this stuff online (not so much orally), so I'd also encourage the discussion!