Third Party President

Crux · Post by **Crux** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:39 pm

So what is it going to take? Or are the battle lines so firmly entrenched between the Democrats and Republicans that it is no longer realistically possible? If it happened once, by some freak of politics/finances, would that open the door and break the strangehold the two parties currently hold?

Discuss!

For the record, I'd *love* to see a third party or independent win the presidency. I can't imagine that the system as it stands today is exactly what the founding fathers had in mind. Two rabidly entrenched groups of the populace, important issues controlled by special interest groups, so on and so forth.

But, I reckon it would take a someone who was fiscally conservative and socially moderate to win the election as a third party candidate. And they'd have to be freaking rich beyond belief (or have a backer who was rich beyond belief). Is it going to happen anytime soon? I doubt it. I think the two parties will continue the status quo by-and-large until the United States ceases to exist in its current form.

Tareeq · Post by **Tareeq** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:50 pm

First, any third-party that captured the presidency would rapidly become the second or first party. Anti-Federalists give way to Democratic Republicans. Federalists give way to Whigs, who give way to Republicans. It's the way of things in a first-past-the-post system. Consider Britain, where third parties obtain seats but are generally ineffectual. When they score real success, they displace their closest ideological competitors, as Labour did to the Liberal Party.

Second, your wish has been granted many times in the past, and will be granted in the future. Third parties capture power all the time here, as factions within the two major parties. Reagan's election was the triumph of Goldwater conservatism over Gerald Ford's country-club Republican establishment. Bill Clinton was an (apparently fleeting) triumph of moderation over the New Left, which in turn displaced the Scoop Jackson/New Deal Democratic establishment.

Expect a major bloodbath to begin within one of the parties starting Wednesday. There's your third party revolution.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 6:50 pm

It would take a miracle.

The only way I see it happening is with a complete restructuring of the election process, including the elimination of the two-party system and the electoral college.

There is a sliver of a possibility that someone with godlike celebrity status could ride that to the presidency. But barring that or total reform, you'll see a gay black female Pagan president before a 3rd party one.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:01 pm

Tareeq wrote: Second, your wish has been granted many times in the past, and will be granted in the future. Third parties capture power all the time here, as factions within the two major parties. Reagan's election was the triumph of Goldwater conservatism over Gerald Ford's country-club Republican establishment. Bill Clinton was an (apparently fleeting) triumph of moderation over the New Left, which in turn displaced the Scoop Jackson/New Deal Democratic establishment.

Expect a major bloodbath to begin within one of the parties starting Wednesday. There's your third party revolution.

Come on, now. There are two dominiant parties and while their subtitles or stated objectives may gradually shift, they are still only two. The political access and privilege they have is handed down and no one else is entitled to it.

Just because Ty Cobb doesn't lead the Tigers anymore, and they suck, and play in a different stadium, are they not the Tigers? The neo-Trammell Tigers are a distinct team set apart from the Boozian Cobb Tigers?

Tareeq · Post by **Tareeq** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:09 pm

LawBeefaroni wrote:Come on, now. There are two dominiant parties and while their subtitles or stated objectives may gradually shift, they are still only two. The political access and privilege they have is handed down and no one else is entitled to it.

Don't confuse names with policy, or ideology. Ask Brent Scowcroft if you don't believe me. Ask a Republican for Kerry.

Agreed on the sporting side though. It would be great for the Tigers if the Ty Cobb faction regained power.

Defiant · Post by **Defiant** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:30 pm

Fireball · Post by **Fireball** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 7:32 pm

Abraham Lincoln was the last really effective third party candidate.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Mon Nov 01, 2004 8:24 pm

You need someone of Teddy Roosevelt's stature I think. And the third party still lost.

Democrat Woodrow Wilson elected president over TR, who came in second, and Republican Taft. Roosevelt received the largest percentage of votes of any third party candidate.

Wilson won the election:
6,293,454 popular votes, 435 Electoral votes/40 states.

Roosevelt came in second:
4,119,538 votes , 88 Electoral votes/6 states.
(27.4% of the popular vote)

Taft came in third:
3,484,980 votes, 8 Electoral votes/2 states.