Apple Vision

[Zaxxon]

There absolutely could be all sorts of value, quality of life improvements, etc from a computer on your face. It’s just that most of them are heavily muted when the computer weighs way too much, hides your face from others, has a very narrow FoV, and is attached by wire to a pocket battery that lasts only a couple of hours.

That’s why it’s going to take a few generations. Which doesn’t mean it will eventually be a world-changing hit like the iPhone. But rather I don’t think it’s fair to say that people can’t really see it today in this very niche version therefore it won’t happen. The iPhone took several iterations to really hit stride, and IMO the first iPhone was much more mature than this first Vision, as crazy as that sounds to type.

[Rumpy]

The iPhone took several iterations to really hit stride, and IMO the first iPhone was much more mature than this first Vision, as crazy as that sounds to type.

I don't think it's that crazy, no. I think it's because the iPhone had a much bigger wow factor associated with it, given that when people saw Steve Jobs swiping the screen, people immediately saw how powerful and handy it could be. And granted, while it wasn't the 'first' smartphone, it absolutely took the world by storm and could be seen as an innovator, and the market completely changed henceforth. Phone manufacturers had no choice but to follow suit.

The problem here is that the market is such a small niche to begin with, and even if they have the greatest product in this category, it's not going to guarantee the product becoming a success. We've time and time again seen innovative products that have failed to catch on, not because they're not great products, but because they've failed to convince the public they really need it or too ahead of their time for people to appreciate them. I mean, I appreciate what Apple is trying to do, but a large part of the battle will be trying to convince people they absolutely need it. It's not exactly something that sells itself, unlike the iPhone when Steve Jobs first unveiled it.

[Blackhawk]

It doesn't help that a tremendous number of people think that doing something in VR or AR is like watching a 3D movie that just sits in front of you.

[YellowKing]

I think one of the biggest problems with adoption of VR is there is no real portability. Phones can be put in your pocket, tablets can be thrown in a bag.

Which is why I'm far more interested in the Vision's software and use case potential than I am the hardware. I think the hardware piece is still a long ways from being sleek enough for people to wear in airports, while traveling, etc.

[EvilHomer3k]

Niche market (VR enthusiasts) in a niche market (Apple desktop users) in a niche market (VR enthusiasts who want to work and be productive in VR). By the time those pies are all cut up there's a very small number of general users left.

In all seriousness, do you imagine that Apple wasn’t aware of the task going in? I’m honestly curious as to what it was that they saw/see that resulted in “spend billions and billions of dollars trying to do that.”

I’d like to know what their end game is before I judge. iPod, iPhone, iPad. All winners but pretty easy to understand from the jump. “Put that on people’s faces” is less obvious. But I would still bet that there’s a legitimate goal here even if an old goat like me isn’t the target.

I'm sure they have a vision for the Vision Pro. Honestly, my guess is that COVID got a lot of people investing into virtual spaces. I'm pretty sure that's what was behind the whole Metaverse thing Facebook did. I think many companies expected work from home to continue and invested in tools for that. Then, it kind of didn't. Remote jobs are much more prevalent than before but many places have gone back to in-person even when it's totally unnecessary. Plus VR has always been something people view as having the potential of being the next big thing. That isn't to say there's no utility here. The potential is huge as for what you can do with it. I'm not sure what Apple would consider a success here, though. Are they looking for iPhone levels of success or something that a few people use that has great utility for them?

[EvilHomer3k]

for the previous product like the phone and the pod, it was clear, really clear, to basically everybody who saw them. How this product was going to make life better. Right, that was the point, this new thing nearly instantly made life better.

but with the computer on the face, its different. How does having a computer on your face make life better? How does it make life easier?
I don't care about which generation, or how many iterations it takes to make it affordable, thats the ultimate question to determine if this product is going to be THE THING, or just another headset on the pile.


Here is my opinion on why its not going to be THE THING, and its nothing to do with current hardware or eventual specs and pricing.

Humans, for the most part, interface with the world visually. We use our eyes. Having a computer between our eyes and the world puts a layer of distance between, and throws the world into a state of uncanny valley. No matter how good the graphics get, having the computer interpret the world for us instead of using our own eyes is always going to be met with resistance.


The general public is not going to see or want to have a computer in front of their eyes. There is just no value in it, there is no quality of life increase, there is nothing about it that makes life easier or better or faster or smoother.

I do think that the public does want to play games (and watch porn) with these. I think they want to use them for productivity. But for short periods of time and not something they use all day. I use my Quest almost daily but I don't want to wear it longer than the battery lasts. I do think that hardware is a limiting factor to how long people want to wear things but as someone who wore glasses and then got lasic I don't want to wear glasses any more. Would I if it could replace my PC, iPhone, Apple Watch, and Quest? Yes but with qualifications. I'd take them off a lot. I'd still want a fitness device. I'd remove them for rain. I'd take them off at home. Honestly, I'd take them off a lot because, like you said, I want to see with my own eyes.

[Unagi]

I think they want to use them for productivity. But for short periods of time and not something they use all day.

-just- the way I like my productivity.

[YellowKing]

I'm guessing at least part of Apple's objective is just to be first in the VR/AR-as-productivity space. It gives them the chance to dictate the "rules" of the experience which - if it takes off - other companies will have to follow based on consumer expectation.

[EvilHomer3k]

I think it will be down to the apps. I think one question I have about this and other AR devices is what can I do with them that I can't already do? That's the ultimate question, really. So far, I'm not really coming up with much.

I’m into the AR part, so I’m not stumbling into walls like an asshole. Like…if I have this, do I even need a TV anymore?

I punched a shelf the other day playing Resident Evil. Thankfully I was alone and no one saw what an asshole I looked like.
I think you do need a TV unless everyone in your house has one. Even then I'm not sure it's a better experience to be together but separate.

[rittchard]

I do kind of feel like Apple as a whole didn't have the kind of singular Steve Jobs-esque "vision" - no pun intended - of where this device was going to fit in, the way maybe it did with the iPhone or iPad. But even those devices, if you recall, people were very skeptical of before they released (particularly the iPad IIRC). I remember debating the use cases of the iPad before it came out (I'm sure I have an old blog post about it from many years ago) and how most people I talked to just said they didn't "get it" - but clearly the tablet market went beyond what even Apple originally imagined. In some ways with AVP, it seems like Apple has almost conflicting visions in terms of the productivity side vs the entertainment side. The "Mac Pro in space" team vs. the "giant theater/entertainment in space" team. Both of these are represented, but it doesn't feel like they committed fully to either one... Yet.

I think the thing to keep remembering is, and I know it's been said many times, is that this the first iteration, and it's really early in the game. It was ultimately developers - and users - that changed and dictated the way the iDevices' directions went. I think people in general are just naturally skeptical, and certainly a price-point like this makes you even more skeptical. But this is another case where I think the rewards come when you let those with the greatest amount of imagination run free, and give them the most powerful landscape to work with, especially if you imagine the processing power if you start adding in things like AI.

Personally I haven't thought of any killer apps or use cases that would take this over the top (well except my Taylor Swift thing but that's more a matter of licensing and marketing), but I am sure there are more creative people than me working on things as we speak. How about virtual meeting places like the Matrix? Or better yet, meeting on Mars or the Moon? Playing a version of Minecraft on the moon?

Side note - I was watching the Alicia Keys VR show they did, and it was eerily realistic, almost too much so. She approaches you at one point and I swear I got scared she was going to bitch slap me. In another part I was looking around the room and watching one guy chatting with someone else on the side, and I just thought to myself what if he looked over at me and acknowledged I was looking at him? That would totally freak me out but it would be so awesome. And it doesn't seem like it would be particularly difficult in terms of AI.

[Rumpy]

Niche market (VR enthusiasts) in a niche market (Apple desktop users) in a niche market (VR enthusiasts who want to work and be productive in VR). By the time those pies are all cut up there's a very small number of general users left.

In all seriousness, do you imagine that Apple wasn’t aware of the task going in? I’m honestly curious as to what it was that they saw/see that resulted in “spend billions and billions of dollars trying to do that.”

I’d like to know what their end game is before I judge. iPod, iPhone, iPad. All winners but pretty easy to understand from the jump. “Put that on people’s faces” is less obvious. But I would still bet that there’s a legitimate goal here even if an old goat like me isn’t the target.

I'm sure they have a vision for the Vision Pro. Honestly, my guess is that COVID got a lot of people investing into virtual spaces. I'm pretty sure that's what was behind the whole Metaverse thing Facebook did.

Or even Zoom. That was a near overnight success due to the situations with Covid, and people still use it because it's handy. But frankly, even in terms of something like Zoom, I'd rather do it via a normal screen rather than something strapped to my head.

[EvilHomer3k]

Thrillseeker on youtube put out his take on the AVP. He does a lot of VR content and has reviewed almost every VR platform around. Says some good and bad things about it. He loves the hardware but is a bit baffled by some of the decisions Apple has made as well as some of their pricing.

[Exodor]

I know Apple is kind of marketing this as a replacement for a MacBook or an iMac but the vast majority of what I do on my PC involves typing.

How do you type on a Vision Pro? A virtual keyboard?

[EvilHomer3k]

I know Apple is kind of marketing this as a replacement for a MacBook or an iMac but the vast majority of what I do on my PC involves typing.

How do you type on a Vision Pro? A virtual keyboard?

You can type on the virtual keyboard. The universal opinion of that keyboard is it sucks for anything besides entering very short text. You can connect a real keyboard and magic trackpad, though. Just like the real world!

[Rumpy]

I hadn't even thought about that, and everything I've seen never mentioned it. I'm assuming any wireless peripherals would be able to be used, unless it looks for very specific devices.

[EvilHomer3k]

I hadn't even thought about that, and everything I've seen never mentioned it. I'm assuming any wireless peripherals would be able to be used, unless it looks for very specific devices.

I don't remember what video it was but someone said it didn't work with Apple mice. That seems to be correct and not quite correct.
https://support.apple.com/en-us/HT213998


Keyboards and trackpads

Most Bluetooth keyboards made by Apple and other manufacturers can connect to Apple Vision Pro. Vision Pro also works with Apple Magic Trackpad.

Apple Vision Pro isn't compatible with older models of Apple keyboards and trackpads that use removable batteries. Apple Vision Pro also isn't compatible with Bluetooth mice.

So it seems that YMMV but for some reason older apple peripherals aren't supported nor are bluetooth mice for some reason.

[Rumpy]

Hmm, so basically locked into Apple devices. Which is fine, but I would have thought they'd have it open to being able to use other non-Apple peripherals as the situation will sometimes require it. But even then, some might have a rude awakening in having to replace some of their stuff if it's not supported.

Maybe Bluetooth mice not being supported has something to do with the frequency possibly interfering with the headset? Like a bluetooth keyboard would be fine, but with a mouse you have lots of movement generating lots more interference. This is pure speculation of course.

[Daehawk]

[Rumpy]

Too bad none of those features is affordability

[em2nought]

If I had a wife who looked like Melissa Mccarthy, I imagine this device could make her look like Audrey Hepburn to me? I think I'm going to need sound alteration too.

[EvilHomer3k]

Whoever this is Apple should hire them to do keynotes. She even makes a mundane task like using Apple Music the most amazing experience ever.
"I have my work setup I have my website open, chatGPT, a browser window, notes, and EVEN APPLE MUSIC." Apple music? Where's my Apple card?

She even makes typing, which most reviews say is absolutely awful, sound like it's the most wonderful thing to ever happen to anyone in the history of man. Gaming, well let her tell you about how great Fruit Ninja is!

She does seem to gush about everything in all her videos (not just Apple stuff).

[Unagi]

Gushers gonna gush.

[Zaxxon]

Gushers gonna gush.

Speaking of gushing, I inherited my daughter's iPad when she recently got a new iPhone, and today I started using Universal Control for the first time. Now my iPad is just another display for the Mac, using the Mac's keyboard/mouse.

I don't love Apple, but sometimes they get the 'it just works' part very right.

[em2nought]

Oops, I meant I want Salma Hayek in my "I" doohickey. What was I thinking?

[Daehawk]

Apple being Apple...ie buttholes who sell crap products then charge a fortune to support them..or not at all

Apple claims its not a hardware or manufacturing problem. Too bad so sad.

Vision Pro Crack Gate

The Vision Pro front glass cracking issue was first reported in the VisionPro subreddit about 18 days ago when the hottest Apple tech just started hitting the shelves. Since then, a few users have been facing the same issue, and the number of cases has increased in the last week. Users have shared images that show a similar vertical hairline crack above the nose bridge. This suggests the damage is induced at a particular point of tension, where the curvature of the laminated glass is most noticeable.

If you have AppleCare they charge you $300 to fix. Without it Apple wants $800.

F Apple as usual cause they f u first.

[EvilHomer3k]

Apple being Apple...ie buttholes who sell crap products then charge a fortune to support them..or not at all

Apple claims its not a hardware or manufacturing problem. Too bad so sad.

Vision Pro Crack Gate

The Vision Pro front glass cracking issue was first reported in the VisionPro subreddit about 18 days ago when the hottest Apple tech just started hitting the shelves. Since then, a few users have been facing the same issue, and the number of cases has increased in the last week. Users have shared images that show a similar vertical hairline crack above the nose bridge. This suggests the damage is induced at a particular point of tension, where the curvature of the laminated glass is most noticeable.

If you have AppleCare they charge you $300 to fix. Without it Apple wants $800.

F Apple as usual cause they f u first.

How do you crack a headset like this? Are people head butting each other? Likely blown way out of proportion.

[YellowKing]

when the hottest Apple tech just started hitting the shelves.

My suggestion would be to stop hitting shelves.

[Unagi]

Apple being Apple...ie buttholes who sell crap products then charge a fortune to support them..or not at all

Apple claims its not a hardware or manufacturing problem. Too bad so sad.

Vision Pro Crack Gate

The Vision Pro front glass cracking issue was first reported in the VisionPro subreddit about 18 days ago when the hottest Apple tech just started hitting the shelves. Since then, a few users have been facing the same issue, and the number of cases has increased in the last week. Users have shared images that show a similar vertical hairline crack above the nose bridge. This suggests the damage is induced at a particular point of tension, where the curvature of the laminated glass is most noticeable.

If you have AppleCare they charge you $300 to fix. Without it Apple wants $800.

F Apple as usual cause they f u first.

How do you crack a headset like this? Are people head butting each other? Likely blown way out of proportion.

I agree. I also laughed at how completely pissed off Daehawk gets.

Apple; is just so famous for selling "crap products".

A human on Reddit reports they cracked their glass, and since then a few others have too.






Oh, I've also read that some people have gotten free replacements.

I don't doubt that it's a thing - but I'm sure if you treated it like you just spent a few grand on it - it may not crack.


edit: apparently people claim it cracked without any abuse at all. Like they woke up to a new crack on the screen.
I can't imagine Apple wont be tending to this if its a thing.

[Rumpy]

Well, it doesn't appear to be an isolated incident. In their case, it's been lightly-used, they haven't dropped it or done anything out of the ordinary, and had it sitting in its case when they noticed the crack. And then there's the fact that others claim to have the same thing happening. That points to a possible flaw in the design.

And no pun intended, but the optics on this look pretty bad. Plunk $3500 on a headset, and Apple won't fix it unless you pay them, even if it's not the fault of the user. If it's a manufacturing defect or flaw in the design, it's something that Apple should have caught during the testing phases. If I had put money into it and had this happen to me, I'd find it super discouraging.

[Unagi]

Well, it doesn't appear to be an isolated incident. In their case, it's been lightly-used, they haven't dropped it or done anything out of the ordinary, and had it sitting in its case when they noticed the crack. And then there's the fact that others claim to have the same thing happening. That points to a possible flaw in the design.

I agree, and stood (stand) corrected - but do wonder how Apple will respond if/when it's shown that anyone's could break while it simply sitting in its case overnight.

Apple isn't really "known" for putting out crap products.

[Daehawk]

It seems to be at a pressure point. When users wear it it pushes on each side and puts pressure on the more narrow center part.

And yes I dearly loath Apple. 2 Apple products failed and they would not help on one and the other they wanted as much to replace the battery as id paid for it less than a year earlier. my wife's ipod.

Then i bought that Airport for wifi that says its for pc as well and advertised as so. NOPE doesn't. When i contacted them they told me the only way to help me was to buy one of their $500 iphones. Fuck Apple and the broken overpriced shit they rode in on.

I DID like Apple in the old days when I was a kid ...up until all this shit as an adult.

[Unagi]

It seems to be at a pressure point. When users wear it it pushes on each side and puts pressure on the more narrow center part.

Others are saying it could be a defect in a few and this is from heat changes.

Unless the people saying they put it down/away fine and came back to it cracked are a separate issue/story.

If it's a universal design flaw, that will be bad - and most people will eventually see it.

[Rumpy]

Well, it doesn't appear to be an isolated incident. In their case, it's been lightly-used, they haven't dropped it or done anything out of the ordinary, and had it sitting in its case when they noticed the crack. And then there's the fact that others claim to have the same thing happening. That points to a possible flaw in the design.

I agree, and stood (stand) corrected - but do wonder how Apple will respond if/when it's shown that anyone's could break while it simply sitting in its case overnight.

Apple isn't really "known" for putting out crap products.

Yeah, that's the big question. It's possible they've been caught off-guard by this. Sometimes testing something is different to real-world use. It particularly stings when it's a high-valued item, so I really do hope Apple makes it right and takes care of that customer base. One thing they absolutely won't want to do is ignore them.

[RunningMn9]

Then i bought that Airport for wifi that says its for pc as well and advertised as so. NOPE doesn't.

I don't particularly care if you like Apple, but I can assure you that the Airport worked fine for PCs (I used it for years).

[Moliere]

[Daehawk]

Then i bought that Airport for wifi that says its for pc as well and advertised as so. NOPE doesn't.

I don't particularly care if you like Apple, but I can assure you that the Airport worked fine for PCs (I used it for years).

Well it didn't for me and they told me exactly what I typed.

[RunningMn9]

Well it didn't for me and they told me exactly what I typed.

I hear what you are saying, and I’m not accusing you of lying. I’m simply noting that the device worked fine with PCs. I used it for many years, as one of my college friends (who was in my wedding party) was engineering manager for the group that made the AirPort Extreme and I got sweet discounts.

[Punisher]

I wanna see a mixed reality Frogger app.

You can already do this IRL...I've picked up many a person who has lost trying to cross the local highway.

[Punisher]

Question based on Ryans video.
Does it actually show those eyes on the outside or is it just a gag?

[Zaxxon]

Question based on Ryans video.
Does it actually show those eyes on the outside or is it just a gag?

It shows them when someone’s in the room with you.