Fascism Watch in America

[malchior]

Might as well start facing reality that America has a serious fascism problem. A former President is attacking the system constantly and openly following Hitler's playbook. Meanwhile, Fox is platforming openly seditious, fascist content. Keeping in mind that the Five gets the highest average ratings across the cable news networks.

[Isgrimnur]

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1710 ... 56179.html

[LordMortis]

Wow. Openly calling for a Civil War after describing how horribly blinded he is and that going to war is the only way to show him how horribly blind he is. Just Go Fox for giving this man a platform.

Had to look up who he is. Go Fox. So glad my I don't give you free cable dollars any more.

[malchior]

Keep in mind that is the most popular show on cable news. Sure someone was throwing a little cold water on things because they knew Gutfeld was going to far. However it is remarkable that we're seeing a constant drumbeat of out in the open fascist speech from folks in the national media and major political figures right now.

[malchior]

Great clip and worth a watch.

[GreenGoo]

I can't listen to him.

I got 5 seconds into it.

"No one has any idea where these people come from. We know they come from prisons. We know they come from mental institutions."

How *anyone* is influenced by this man I have no idea. It is rage inducing.

[LawBeefaroni]

I can't listen to him.

I got 5 seconds into it.

"No one has any idea where these people come from. We know they come from prisons. We know they come from mental institutions."

How *anyone* is influenced by this man I have no idea. It is rage inducing.

That's nothing. A few seconds later he said, "It's poisoning the blood of our country..." That is straight up white supremacist rhetoric there. He may not know it but who ever is whispering in his ear certainly does. It's sacred Nazi symbolism and undoubtedly a rallying cry.

[malchior]

That's why we have to pay attention. That clip packs in so much. It is worth the 5 minutes if you come away understanding we are in the middle of a major crisis right now.

[GreenGoo]

Yes, I'm aware that he has been channeling Hitler and Mein Kampf. That is at least coherent and intentional.

It's not like we need new reasons to want him dead or at least shut him up, but when I hear his completely incoherent dribble it makes me want to put him in a home, not put my own life on the line and wage war against the government. Yet people are doing exactly that.

Boggles my mind. I am boggled.

[YellowKing]

Perfect example of what a crisis we're in: had a conversation with my dad last night. He can't stand either candidate (Trump or Biden), but he's still living in a world where the differences between the two parties comes down to spending and immigration policies. He's far more concerned about the climate change "hoax," transgender kids in sports, and immigrants taking our jobs than he is about the end of democracy.

If he had to vote tomorrow he'd probably vote Trump because Trump would build the wall. The other stuff he doesn't even know about, or if he does know, he doesn't care. (He was genuinely surprised when I told him about Trump leaking nuclear sub secrets, for example.)

Now that may sound to you like just another MAGA disciple, but I know my dad. He's always hated all politicians. He doesn't watch any news, much less Fox News.

My point is, the message isn't getting through to the everyday Joe. They're still living in la-la land. The house is burning to the ground and they're worried about dirty dishes in the sink.

[malchior]

Now that may sound to you like just another MAGA disciple, but I know my dad. He's always hated all politicians. He doesn't watch any news, much less Fox News.

My point is, the message isn't getting through to the everyday Joe. They're still living in la-la land. The house is burning to the ground and they're worried about dirty dishes in the sink.

And a lot of others are living in a constructed reality where blue cities are full of criminals preying on white people, immigrants are stealing their jobs, trans girls are stealing all the trophies ( ) and other imagined horrors. So even if they get shown the clip of Trump saying shoot the shoplifters it's linked to an unfortunate but necessary evil to stop the endless tide of crime. Or whatever - everyone gets the idea. These people often don't get that we are hearing similar rhetoric to other flirtations with authoritarianism. With a wide variety of outcomes - none of which have been good.

[Unagi]

Now that may sound to you like just another MAGA disciple, but I know my dad. He's always hated all politicians. He doesn't watch any news, much less Fox News.

(my tone is conversational here, not confrontational)

Reaaally kinda makes you wonder why he just gives Trump such a pass here.
I don't buy it. Any parent knows how easy it is to hide your own 'complex reasoning' from a child of yours and to just say that you don't really know, and that you look at all the options, etc, etc.. but that you just lean 'this way' on the topic... Very easy for a child to conclude "my parents mean well, but they just don't get it..." -- and that keeps the peace, and the parent doesn't have to defend themselves.

I think that's what your dad is doing here. For what it's worth.


Maybe you should just suggest to your dad that he doesn't vote.

[UsulofDoom]

Now that may sound to you like just another MAGA disciple, but I know my dad. He's always hated all politicians. He doesn't watch any news, much less Fox News.

My point is, the message isn't getting through to the everyday Joe. They're still living in la-la land. The house is burning to the ground and they're worried about dirty dishes in the sink.

And a lot of others are living in a constructed reality where blue cities are full of criminals preying on white people, immigrants are stealing their jobs, trans girls are stealing all the trophies ( ) and other imagined horrors. So even if they get shown the clip of Trump saying shoot the shoplifters it's linked to an unfortunate but necessary evil to stop the endless tide of crime. Or whatever - everyone gets the idea. These people often don't get that we are hearing similar rhetoric to other flirtations with authoritarianism. With a wide variety of outcomes - none of which have been good.

So how many trans boys are stealing trophies? Why are stores closing and abandoning those cities ? As for criminals that prey on anyone, check out heyjackass.com

[malchior]

So how many trans boys are stealing trophies? Why are stores closing and abandoning those cities ? As for criminals that prey on anyone, check out heyjackass.com

No thanks. I don't take advice from hateful bigots.

[YellowKing]

I think that's what your dad is doing here. For what it's worth.

You can not be a fan of Trump and still be so hardwired in your conservative views that you'd vote for him anyway rather than vote for the liberals you've been taught your whole life to hate. In fact, I'd argue that's the case with most Trump voters. That's not being a MAGA disciple. That's defaulting to the only option you think you have, if voting for Biden is not an option.

[Carpet_pissr]

I think that's what your dad is doing here. For what it's worth.

You can not be a fan of Trump and still be so hardwired in your conservative views that you'd vote for him anyway rather than vote for the liberals you've been taught your whole life to hate. In fact, I'd argue that's the case with most Trump voters.

This.

[Alefroth]

We agree that requires a monumental level of delusion, right? Perhaps even willful ignorance?

[Unagi]

Yeah. I don’t disagree with YK’s read of it, but that’s also in line with my statement.

They have ‘old reasons’ to vote the way they do. They don’t want to look at the new information. Stay the course.

But they want to make it sound like they are still looking at the map and navigating the landscape in front of them.

[Carpet_pissr]

We agree that requires a monumental level of delusion, right? Perhaps even willful ignorance?

It’s been said before, but I guess it’s time to repeat it: most people don’t keep up with politics like we do on this board, not even close.

I think with the increase in polarization, more people are paying attention, but still, for people like us who devour every development, it’s very hard to understand how someone can’t.

And yeah, probably some willful ignorance sprinkled in as well.

[YellowKing]

I think with the increase in polarization, more people are paying attention, but still, for people like us who devour every development, it’s very hard to understand how someone can’t.

And it's not just a matter of willful ignorance. If you live in a deep red county, all of your friends are deep red conservatives, every stranger at the diner is a deep red conservative, and your only news source is your Facebook feed with posts from your deep red conservative friends, how easy do you think it is to think independently?

I think it's too simple to say someone sees the facts, and just chooses to ignore them. They don't see the facts as facts in the first place, because everything in their environment is reinforcing a different reality.

[GreenGoo]

If drumpf was the dem candidate but the GOP was in the middle of dismantling democracy and making all abortion illegal federally, could you vote for him?

Because holy hell, that's a rock and a hard place.

[GreenGoo]

I think it's too simple to say someone sees the facts, and just chooses to ignore them. They don't see the facts as facts in the first place, because everything in their environment is reinforcing a different reality.

While I agree that living in an echo chamber is going to reinforce your already entrenched ideas, I ask you why Dems are calling for Menendez to resign, and there is little support for him here in this obvious bubble of liberal progressiveness (because the few conservatives that have ever been here have assured me that OO is an echo chamber for the left and does not reflect majority viewpoints) that is OO?

Disinformation is a huge problem, and Fox is particularly awful. I've watched Fox clips where the people speaking are saying one thing and the banners scrolling across the bottom are making conclusions that are the opposite of the words being spoken. It's a propaganda mill. Unfortunately it's also privately owned so I guess everyone just needs to let it happen? Maybe if Fox wasn't legally a person, that might help.

[Pyperkub]

I think it's too simple to say someone sees the facts, and just chooses to ignore them. They don't see the facts as facts in the first place, because everything in their environment is reinforcing a different reality.

While I agree that living in an echo chamber is going to reinforce your already entrenched ideas, I ask you why Dems are calling for Menendez to resign, and there is little support for him here in this obvious bubble of liberal progressiveness (because the few conservatives that have ever been here have assured me that OO is an echo chamber for the left and does not reflect majority viewpoints) that is OO?

Disinformation is a huge problem, and Fox is particularly awful. I've watched Fox clips where the people speaking are saying one thing and the banners scrolling across the bottom are making conclusions that are the opposite of the words being spoken. It's a propaganda mill. Unfortunately it's also privately owned so I guess everyone just needs to let it happen? Maybe if Fox wasn't legally a person, that might help.

Please compare/contrast with Rep Santos campaign CFO pleading guilty to felony fraud this week.

Sent from my SM-S908U1 using Tapatalk

[Holman]

I think it's too simple to say someone sees the facts, and just chooses to ignore them. They don't see the facts as facts in the first place, because everything in their environment is reinforcing a different reality.

While I agree that living in an echo chamber is going to reinforce your already entrenched ideas, I ask you why Dems are calling for Menendez to resign, and there is little support for him here in this obvious bubble of liberal progressiveness (because the few conservatives that have ever been here have assured me that OO is an echo chamber for the left and does not reflect majority viewpoints) that is OO?

Disinformation is a huge problem, and Fox is particularly awful. I've watched Fox clips where the people speaking are saying one thing and the banners scrolling across the bottom are making conclusions that are the opposite of the words being spoken. It's a propaganda mill. Unfortunately it's also privately owned so I guess everyone just needs to let it happen? Maybe if Fox wasn't legally a person, that might help.

I'll push back on Fox being "particularly awful." The Overton window has shifted to the point where the Fox behavior you describe is basically center-right.

True MAGA-heads have abandoned Fox as insufficiently loyal. They're getting their hits from Newsmax, OANN, and streaming vids from Prager U and its ilk. And that doesn't even count the hard-core Christian Nationalist networks preaching virtually and in real churches every Sunday.

[GreenGoo]

To that I just shrug. I certainly wasn't identifying Fox as the root of all evil, I was only using them as an example.

That said, I'm sure YK's father gets his news from Fox and not newsmax or other harder right wing altered realities.

[waitingtoconnect]

I think it's too simple to say someone sees the facts, and just chooses to ignore them. They don't see the facts as facts in the first place, because everything in their environment is reinforcing a different reality.

While I agree that living in an echo chamber is going to reinforce your already entrenched ideas, I ask you why Dems are calling for Menendez to resign, and there is little support for him here in this obvious bubble of liberal progressiveness (because the few conservatives that have ever been here have assured me that OO is an echo chamber for the left and does not reflect majority viewpoints) that is OO?

Disinformation is a huge problem, and Fox is particularly awful. I've watched Fox clips where the people speaking are saying one thing and the banners scrolling across the bottom are making conclusions that are the opposite of the words being spoken. It's a propaganda mill. Unfortunately it's also privately owned so I guess everyone just needs to let it happen? Maybe if Fox wasn't legally a person, that might help.

I'll push back on Fox being "particularly awful." The Overton window has shifted to the point where the Fox behavior you describe is basically center-right.

True MAGA-heads have abandoned Fox as insufficiently loyal. They're getting their hits from Newsmax, OANN, and streaming vids from Prager U and its ilk. And that doesn't even count the hard-core Christian Nationalist networks preaching virtually and in real churches every Sunday.

I’m not sure you can call them churches anymore.
https://newrepublic.com/post/174950/chr ... beral-weak

Jesus is too liberal apparently. It’s all supply side Jesus now.

https://www.beliefnet.com/news/2003/09/ ... jesus.aspx

[Kasey Chang]

The biggest clue to fascism is when Trump called General Milley a traitor and should be executed, NOBODY on the GOP side dared to push back. In fact, few of the news channels find it even newsworthy.

[Victoria Raverna]

Perfect example of what a crisis we're in: had a conversation with my dad last night. He can't stand either candidate (Trump or Biden), but he's still living in a world where the differences between the two parties comes down to spending and immigration policies. He's far more concerned about the climate change "hoax," transgender kids in sports, and immigrants taking our jobs than he is about the end of democracy.

If he had to vote tomorrow he'd probably vote Trump because Trump would build the wall. The other stuff he doesn't even know about, or if he does know, he doesn't care. (He was genuinely surprised when I told him about Trump leaking nuclear sub secrets, for example.)

Now that may sound to you like just another MAGA disciple, but I know my dad. He's always hated all politicians. He doesn't watch any news, much less Fox News.

My point is, the message isn't getting through to the everyday Joe. They're still living in la-la land. The house is burning to the ground and they're worried about dirty dishes in the sink.

Then maybe you can show him this video:

[GreenGoo]

We've already discussed Biden's strange and pointless walling building in reasonable detail.

If Biden was campaigning on keeping the rapers and murderers away from the children, I might be more critical. In this case, I'm confused as to what he hopes to accomplish here.

[YellowKing]

My understanding was the wall building money/project were all from the Trump era and in the pipeline, and Biden had no way to reallocate those funds. I don't remember if I read that here or in the news.

[GreenGoo]

My understanding was the wall building money/project were all from the Trump era and in the pipeline, and Biden had no way to reallocate those funds. I don't remember if I read that here or in the news.

Yes, but Biden had to waive a number of ecological laws to allow it to proceed. Well, that's my understanding anyway.

[Unagi]

My understanding was the wall building money/project were all from the Trump era and in the pipeline, and Biden had no way to reallocate those funds. I don't remember if I read that here or in the news.

Yes, but Biden had to waive a number of ecological laws to allow it to proceed. Well, that's my understanding anyway.

Yep, both parts are true.
The mystery really was why he stepped in and waived the eco-laws. Seems like a good way to get some subset of future Biden voters to throw their hands up, made Trump look good about the wall, and seemed like a political wet-fart.

[malchior]

My understanding was the wall building money/project were all from the Trump era and in the pipeline, and Biden had no way to reallocate those funds. I don't remember if I read that here or in the news.

Right but that explanation was nonsense. They make discretionary choices all the time. Suddenly when we have a bunch of amateur democrats yelling about a wall they suddenly remembered they were legally obligated to build some wall?! What a happy coincidence!

Also we have to consider the reaction to policy on the right. When Biden conducts an environmental review for oil fields or follows the law elsewhere he is a dictator. However, he waives laws to build a wall and he is finally doing his job. That's incoherent. Our politics have really started to move away from good governance or law. Especially on the right they want action taken whether it is legal or not. That's a major factor why the United States is falling towards fascism.

[Victoria Raverna]

My understanding was the wall building money/project were all from the Trump era and in the pipeline, and Biden had no way to reallocate those funds. I don't remember if I read that here or in the news.

You said your dad would vote for Trump because Trump would build the wall. So showed him the video so he know Biden would also build the wall.

[LawBeefaroni]

Biggoted suburban neighbors continue to be emboldened...

A Jefferson Park man who faced hate crime charges for a series of incidents at his neighbor’s home has been sentenced to two years of probation.

...
Dale-Schmidt said that Howard went on the family’s porch twice last year, in May and again in July, to chop their pride flag in half. In the latter incident, he “flipped off” the family’s security camera. A few months later, he sprayed their rainbow flag with stain from a Super Soaker.

Time after time, he left “right-wing political notes and stickers” on the family’s home as surveillance cameras recorded him, said Dale-Schmidt.

...
To cap it off, he slapped a bumper sticker on the family’s garage that showed former President Donald Trump urinating on President Joe Biden’s last name, Dale-Schmidt said.

Investigators learned that the only place in the world to buy the Trump-Biden sticker was from an eBay seller. And, after getting a grand jury subpoena for eBay sales records, police determined that Howard was the only person in the area who bought one, said Dale-Schmidt.

After learning Howard’s name, Chicago police detectives determined that Howard had been involved in a traffic accident while driving a car with a People’s Gas logo on the side. And People’s Gas told cops that Howard had been given “multiple coachings” about having political discussions at work, according to Dale-Schimdt.

She said Howard’s job involved using high-visibility spray paint similar to those used in the crimes, which occurred when he was off work.

Fortunately he's also really stupid.

[ImLawBoy]

Jefferson Park isn't a suburb.

[Isgrimnur]

[Lagom Lite]

Don't mourn, organize.

There's nothing else to do. Get out the vote. Oh, and if I were a leftie living in the States I would probably be getting myself some firearms and gun lessons right about now. Those "nuts" touting civil war may sound like hyperbole, but if Trump wins - heck, even if he loses - you know there's going to be violence.

[hentzau]

Hey! That's in my neighborhood!

[LawBeefaroni]

Jefferson Park isn't a suburb.

This is true.