Re: Bond II - The Prometheus Dawn - Chapter 5
Posted: Wed Mar 16, 2011 10:33 pm
Stessier = Mum
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/
I am going to point out why that statement is so strange to me.Qantaga wrote:I have a confession to make.
I am at the point where proving Unagi wrong is going to be as sweet as actually winning the game.
Well said.Qantaga wrote:I still want the good side to win
I already spoke on that. Scoop has only just now shown any real cards (with his vote, before he just had some theories, etc). Stessier has been clearly placed on Scoop, unless you aren't paying attention... But you paint this as I am the least likely to change my vote, that may be true (Scoop and stessier both seem a bit stuburn to me, I guess it's all perspective) , but I'm not alone in having some convictions - you however, were certainly last to even find his 'opinion' it would seem.Qantaga wrote:Unagi, I'm sure you realize that you are the one that is forcing a Qantaga v. Unagi showdown. Of the four of us, you are the least likely to change your vote or, as you say, " "Fine, I'll go with you two just to end the game, this isn't my choice".
You say this from a position that you just never felt I was a wolf, which I count against you.Qantaga wrote:I've had 5 days of trying to convince you that I'm good and, frankly, I've grown weary of the effort.
Well, not the whole game.Qantaga wrote:Are you willing to bet the game that I'm evil?
I handed it to them both, and neither took it... that was something I actually was watching for.Qantaga wrote:Are you willing to hand the game to an evil Scoop or stessier (if you really are a good agent like you say you are)?
Wait, is it hard for you to imagine a good agent being dead set against you...Qantaga wrote:I am stunned that a good agent would be so dead set against me
Or is it hard for you to imagine Hugo being dead set against you.Qantaga, earlier wrote:- As I said earlier, it's hard for me to imagine Hugo sinking his teeth so deeply into only one conclusion (his conviction that I am evil).
So there is a zone of persistence that's good, but then it moves into the evil zone a little later.Qantaga, earlier wrote:Unagi's persistence seems more good than evil.
Yeah, and I'm glad you are finally expanding on it... what a joke. Let's look at this:Qantaga wrote:* His backpedaling on RMC (I've mentioned this before).
psst. RMC was the zerker. That's not exactly something that makes me look evil, bub.Qantaga wrote:Unagi was in the cross-hairs to be shot by Bond. So, he came out with the suggestion to shoot RMC.
RMC had not played a normal wolf game in his life, and when I went back and read the rules, I saw the ambiguity. This honestly did read a little like a newbie playing all alone, who really hadn't known that Remus couldn't get protected again. I had flipped back and forth on him in my mind the whole game.Qantaga wrote:Then, Bond shot tru1cy and the votes started up on Lassr. Then RMC posts:
RMC wrote:No just wait one minute. I am not a bad guy at all. I know I made the wrong choices, and did not learn from my first game at all, and got ax'd there as well.Unagi wrote: OK, Bond...
Take your shot on RMC.
I am fairly convinced that Scoop and stessier are good guys.
If you do end up shooting me, please folks. remember - I called tru1cy, RMC, and Lassr. (And I got Lassr without Remus' help)
Please scan me and then it will prove I am just a normal Agent.
And here comes Unagi's response:
Unagi wrote: RMC, there will very likely be no more scans.
I'm starting to wonder if you are a villain or not, once more.
"free pass for you".Qantaga wrote:I've been trying as hard as I can to change Unagi's mind and he won't budge. RMC posts that and Unagi goes, "oh, okay, free pass for you."
Yes, I think I just pointed that out.Qantaga wrote:* Scoop and stessier have had ample opportunity to think of any excuse to join Unagi's bandwagon and neither one has.
Well, I laughed at that statement but I, honestly, don't like to push Scoops buttons as much as we bump heads a lot and lock horns, and frankly I really hope Scoop believes that (I like to think he does).Qantaga wrote:* Scoop's shadow RMC. Who is the most likely player to put a noobie RMC up to mimicing Scoop all game? Unagi.
begs the question....Qantaga wrote:So, as Unagi says, I am seeing reasons that he could be Hugo. He wasn't my first choice, but
That is bull, I already said I didn't want anyone to feel that way. And, just which 'consensus on Scoop or stessier' are you pretending to be a part of trying to build, in leau of this begrudged vote against me?Qantaga wrote:since he has virtually assured us that we will not reach a consensus on Scoop or stessier
First, the whole triggercut thing is a rock villains hide behind to blind radars - there is nothing to read from a triggercut, and it's just absurd to feed that thing 'steroids' on the last day of a WW game.Qantaga wrote:* I know for a fact that everything Unagi is attributing to me is false. Why would a good agent make up so much about me, to the point where, no matter what I post or how I post it, he becomes more convinced of my guilt? I know I'm innocent, so this is triggercut on steriods.
Look at how you are talking out of two sides of your mouth:Qantaga wrote:* Look at this:Unagi wrote:The way it looks like this is going is that Scoop isn't going to move off his stessier stance.
Stessier (I assume) is still thinking it's Scoop.
So, it will be up to Qantaga to put that "2nd vote" on someone....
-and this:Unagi wrote:Same goes for you Stessier. Put your damn vote on Scoop.
Scoop - you are on Stessier already...
This is the perfect setup for Unagi/Hugo. He is demanding that the two of you put a vote down on each other, so that I can put the 2nd vote down. Then, he leaps suddenly off me (surprise, surprise) for the kill.
Which is it Qantaga?Qantaga wrote:since he has virtually assured us that we will not reach a consensus on Scoop or stessier
I assume you mean my current 'conviction' of your guilt. What's annoying is that you then go on to quote me (quite obviously...) at a time in the game when I actually started this more just 'supporting Stessier and Scoop' over you.Qantaga wrote:* Here's something that strikes me as odd, given Unagi's conviction of my guilt
regarding:Qantaga wrote::Unagi wrote:OK, I am actually starting to gel on RMC and Qantaga being the other two.
And, frankly - it's only because there were a few moments where I feel like Scoop and stessier did/said something that just makes me feel they are british agents, not villains.
Actually, you are reading that entirely wrong. Well, wait - I did admonish him, but I admonished him as a Good-Guy... (and in hindsight, it's embarrassing that I wrote it, because I think I sound like a prick now that I re-read it.)...Qantaga wrote:Yet he admonishes stessier for defending me
stessier wrote:In response to tru1cy saying he was a Good Guy - Have to see if you ever stood Happily corrected...Unagi wrote:I think you've posted on every page so far.
If you turn up 'Villager', than I will happily Stand Corrected.
Unagi wrote:Btw. Kudos to Tru1cy for how he started playing the game.
Sorry - traveling for work.Scoop20906 wrote:Stessier = Mum
Unagi wrote: Less you forget, this whole thing started with me proclaiming that I landed on you mainly because I couldn't fathom Scoop or stessier being the wolf.
That's at the core.
You've blown that off and moved me over to the "He just was so certain I was Hugo...", when my 'certainty' actually grew from your reaction.
Wait, is it hard for you to imagine a good agent being dead set against you...Qantaga wrote:I am stunned that a good agent would be so dead set against me
Or is it hard for you to imagine Hugo being dead set against you.Qantaga, earlier wrote:- As I said earlier, it's hard for me to imagine Hugo sinking his teeth so deeply into only one conclusion (his conviction that I am evil).
So there is a zone of persistence that's good, but then it moves into the evil zone a little later.Qantaga, earlier wrote:Unagi's persistence seems more good than evil.
Qantaga wrote:stessier wrote:So despite his position, you've ruled out Unagi as being a Bad Guy?
I haven't ruled him out, but I can only see him in one of two ways now:
1. Unagi is a good agent with a strong opinion. He has determined that he has found Hugo and, come hell or high water, he is sticking to his guns. He's wrong, but his conviction seems more in line with how a good agent would play, rather than a bad one.
-or-
2. Unagi is Hugo and has decided to take a scorched earth strategy on me. That way, he seems to have made up his mind, but he's still in postion to flip his vote if two good agents agree on the third innocent.
I'm having a hard time deciding between these two Unagis.
Before Chapter 4, I would have bet a lot that Unagi was good. His (incorrect) determination that I am evil causes my human nature to wonder if he really is evil.
Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:So, Qantaga, do you think that Unagi is Hugo and trying to frame you? Or is Stessier Hugo?
I honestly don't know. The three of you keep trading places in my mind.
- Unagi - I'm not sure. He's probably my lead candidate right now because of his "certainty" that I am Hugo. Since I know I'm not Hugo, the triggercut reflex is kicking in. However, I'm not sure that Hugo would be so determined about one player when he just needs votes on anyone other than him. His dogged pursuit almost makes me see him in an innocent light.
- Scoop - I think RMC latched too hard on you for you to be Hugo. However, you have been pushing for votes against me since the very beginning of the game, even after stessier pointed out the unlikelihood of me being bad, which has an evil taint to it.
- stessier - As Unagi says, stessier has a lot of post "seeds" out there that paint him in a good agent light. However, I also know that stessier is crafty enough to construct legitimate sounding "innocent" moments in his posts.
I've read through the thread once today. A few things jumped out, but I'm going to let them percolate, then I plan on going through at least once more tonight or tomorrow morning to see if they still strike me as odd or if anything else catches my attention.
I'm also planning on revisiting the various lynch votes.
stessier wrote:(and he had all that very important defending to do).
Nice way to put the weight on us.So, unlike the three of you, I don't have any certainty about who the wolf truly is in this game. However, I do see enough evil in you that I'm willing to vote for you.
Milk out nose, no shit.I am very invested in this game.
This time.I desperately want the good agents to come out on top this time.
stessier wrote:You know, the N-1 vote wasn't really as all in as it appears. It really was set up to clear any of the wolves. If Q dies and we find either Lassr/RMC, the one that is left can point to the vote as why it can't possibly be him. It is able to clear any of them that is left at the end.
Newcastle wrote:3 Votes need for Majority
Stessier (1) - Scoop,
Unagi (1) - Qantaga, Stessier,
-
No Votes Cast: Unagi,
Let me know if I've missed anything
Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.Qantaga wrote:Well, hallelujah! We have learned one very nice fact.
Scoop has now been proven good.
That is excellent news because it reduces the Hugo pool to only 3 possibles: Qantaga, Unagi, stessier.
Thank you for letting me live Scoop. I promise you that you will not regret it.
Scoop20906 wrote:Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.
Are you really that naive?Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Qantaga, this doesn't prove me good. If I was Hugo, it would only show that I have some patience.
You're just stringing it out for the fun of it (if you were Hugo)?
I really am naive.
I can't think of any reason for Hugo to withhold a vote that would win the game.
But, obviously, I still have a lot to learn.
I agree with this assessment.Qantaga wrote:Here's my dilemma:
1. stessier - I think stessier blinked. He didn't come into the thread and say, "well Qantaga, you forced me to choose between you and Unagi, so I chose you." What he did was try to build a case to try to persuade Scoop to join, even to the point of doing an entire 180 of his previous position of the n-1 moment. He could have very easily said, "I have to set aside the n-1 moment while evaluating between Q and Unagi," but he turned his opinion of that moment around completely in his argument.
Well, here is the thing. When Unagi things he is right this is how he always argues his point. There is no middle ground and little objectivity either. Trust me, I have been on the receiving end of this attack numerous times. This is actually entirely in Unagi's character. However, it doesn't mean he isn't Hugo. It just means he has decided to go full out for you for some reason. It seemed to change Stessier's mind, huh?Qantaga wrote:
2. Unagi - I still can't get past his relentless campaign against me. He doesn't occassionally question things I say, he disputes almost everything I say. That just doesn't seem like reasonable behaviour for a good agent trying to find the truth. Why is he so committed? I think he developed a strategy that he would come out swinging against me because he knew that neither Scoop nor stessier would engage him, while I foolishly did.
Scoop20906 wrote:Are you really that naive?
Could I just be a good player testing you?
Quiet?Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Are you really that naive?
Could I just be a good player testing you?
Yep. I really am that naive. That never entered my mind.
I'll be quiet now.
Do what you feel is best.
Scoop20906 wrote:Quiet?Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Are you really that naive?
Could I just be a good player testing you?
Yep. I really am that naive. That never entered my mind.
I'll be quiet now.
Do what you feel is best.
That is the last thing I want. From my memory of playing with you I never saw you nervous about presenting a scenario and talking it through with everyone. Was I missing something?
Qantaga, are you that afraid of getting killed?
I expected alot more objectivity from Stessier coming into the final day. What I saw instead was an absolute full attack on me. That on the face of it wasn't odd but the fact that he didn't even seem to give a tenth of the attention to Unagi and was using the Qantaga N-1 as his bases to attack me was a shock.When today started Q said this was Unagi making it about Unagi & Q and that's what it would come down to. I really never saw it that way - Unagi said he wouldn't deadlock us if it came to that and I was interested to hear what Scoop and Q thought of all of us. I posted my thoughts first and apparently that changed Scoop's outlook as he never said what he was originally inclined to before my posting. I've been counting that against him on top of everything else and that's really made me feel good about my position.
Ahh, there is a huge amount of logic missing from N-1 vote to scoop is evil.Stessier wrote:I've been hanging my hat on the N-1 vote. 5 hours. That's a looooooooooooooooooooooooong time. It's been proof to me that Scoop is bad and Q is good. Even attempting to reconsider it and my mind is screaming that nothing else makes sense but...
Scoop20906 wrote:Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?
I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.
(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)
Qantaga wrote:You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my *over vote* to stessier.
Take your time.Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?
I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.
(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)
I most definitely think you are good. You've proven yourself to me. I said as much in my first post when I saw you didn't kill me.
You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my over vote to stessier.
My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.
Qantaga wrote:Unagi, if you're so desperate to end the game, why don't you self-vote?
Scoop20906 wrote:Take your time.Qantaga wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Qantaga, you think I am good and not a "dick wolf", correct?
I think Stessier is the Hugo. Please move your vote to stessier.
(Unagi, you have no idea how hard you made me laugh when I read the "dick wolf".)
I most definitely think you are good. You've proven yourself to me. I said as much in my first post when I saw you didn't kill me.
You'll have to give me a a little bit of time to think about moving my over vote to stessier.
My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.
stessier wrote:Scoop20906 wrote:Take your time.Qantaga wrote:
My worst nightmare scenario in this game is if I move my vote to stessier and Unagi suddenly jumps over to win the game as a wolf.
You really don't see it do you? His worst nightmare just happens to be the only hope he has of getting a consensus?
Dude, what game have you been reading? Who else could you vote for? Scoop? Oops, proven. Unagi? You can't even get to 2 on him as - I'm voting for you - I'm not voting to hand you the game - and Scoop is voting for me which indicates no way he would vote for Unagi as doing so would require him to vote with me for any type of resolution.Qantaga wrote:stessier, I'm surprised at you. You think me moving my vote to you is my only hope of consensus?
Even if I were to do that (which would prove Unagi innocent if he didn't immediately jump on the vote), do you honestly think (a proven) Unagi is likely to move off me to you... ever, for any reason?
I think the odds of Unagi choosing to vote you evil instead of me are what? 1 in a zillion?
I chose you because a re-examination of the evidence makes a very clear case for you. Scoop sees all the signs but is blinded by the one act you hoped would blind us all. The case for Unagi is virtually non-existent. There is no way any wolf takes the stand he did today. I might be wrong, but I doubt it.I believe that's why you chose to align with Unagi, rather than with me.
I have a strong belief based on past interactions with Unagi.Qantaga wrote:Scoop, I have a question for you:
Where do you rate your belief of Unagi's innocence?
- A feeling?
- A strong belief?
- An almost certainty?
I guess it my turn to pressure Unagi.Unagi wrote:pay attention, scoop:stessier wrote:You know, the N-1 vote wasn't really as all in as it appears. It really was set up to clear any of the wolves. If Q dies and we find either Lassr/RMC, the one that is left can point to the vote as why it can't possibly be him. It is able to clear any of them that is left at the end.