Octopus Overlords

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:54 pm Trying to make a general rule is bound to fail. It is too show specific. Sex Education on Netflix is fantastic at 4 seasons and only 8 episodes per season.

This.

If you're a showrunner given twelve episodes for season one, you (ideally) develop a show that can do what it wants to do in twelve eps. Likewise eight, likewise twenty.

At the bottom, it's probably money that determines this more than anything, but it's not as if there is a generic thing called a "show" that will automatically suffer from being too short or too long.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:48 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:39 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 3:49 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 9:33 am And now, as before, I think you're confusing the (rare) exception for the rule when it comes to the quality of shows running 24 or more episodes a season.

Who's arguing in favor of 24+ episode seasons? I am, very specifically, saying that 24 is too many, 8 is too few, and that there is a 'sweet spot' somewhere in the middle they should be striving for - I believe I argued in favor of 16 episode seasons, enough to give the writers some freedom to play with the characters and setting, but not so many as to require padding.

I have no idea who you're arguing with. I wasn't directly responding to you in my initial post.

Now I'm confused, given that you quoted me and responded directly to my quoted text.

Not initially. Go back and read what I first posted. I did not quote you and was teasing whoever first posted the "I miss 98 episodes a season" missive. But you apparently thought I was talking to you, and I know you love a good argument, so I didn't want to disappoint you and responded to you...but only after you quoted me and replied.

Holman wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 4:51 pm At the bottom, it's probably money that determines this more than anything, but it's not as if there is a generic thing called a "show" that will automatically suffer from being too short or too long.

No, but for decades there was a general rule that a season for tv shows was 22 to 26 episodes long. I think that's the real culprit for a lot of crappy shows. Trying to force shows to exist within that rule in order to get to that quick syndication money resulted in some truly bad tv. There were exceptions (not many), but most of the time it was just too damn much.

I think premium channels like HBO and Showtime helped destroy that rule though. Folks got a look at how focused and well written shows like The Sopranos could be and they decided to support quality over quantity in greater numbers.

Heres that odd piece of trivia for you today........

The Eastern Roman Empire fell just 39 years before Columbus sailed to America....1453.

Just another example of something that just had too many damn episodes.

And spin-offs.

And reboots.

Holman wrote:If you're a showrunner given twelve episodes for season one, you (ideally) develop a show that can do what it wants to do in twelve eps. Likewise eight, likewise twenty.

At the bottom, it's probably money that determines this more than anything, but it's not as if there is a generic thing called a "show" that will automatically suffer from being too short or too long.

Then you have a show like Amazon's 3 Body Problem that I think a lot of people feel absolutely suffered from trying to cram too much into only eight episodes. What they did wasn't necessarily bad, but there's no denying that it was a sprint to fit as much into the episodes they were given as possible and could very likely have been better with more time. Of course at a cost of $20M per episode, it's no mystery why they were limited.

One series that I think continuously suffered from extended seasons was American Horror Story. Even though they kept to a relatively short 10-episode season, they often had story arcs that wrapped up in 5-6 episodes. This led to situations where the back half of the season felt extraneous, or tried to cram in a second story arc that just ended up tainting the whole season. They actually tried to remedy this in Season 10 by splitting the season into two completely different storylines, but even that wasn't well-received.

I still very much enjoy the show through all its ups and downs, but I can't help but think about how some of its lesser chapters would have benefitted from a 6-episode season.

I actually expect seasons to start to lengthen somewhat again soon. Not anywhere near 20, but I think we'll see more double-digit episode counts. At the same time, we're going to see fewer original ideas and more derivative shows from proven formulas.

The short seasons really kicked in with the 2007 writers' strike, but worked perfectly with the 'golden age' of streaming, when studios were trying to put as many big titles under peoples' noses as they could, and didn't seem to care about the costs. An eight-episode season lasts either one day or two months (depending on how they release, and not counting mid season pauses.) That means that they can throw their customers a half a dozen series in the same timeframe that a 24-episode series could put out one, and that's exactly the model that they were chasing - lots of releases, lots of throwing out a hundred shows and hoping one would be the next Game of Thrones.

Now, though, it's actually more expensive. Compare a 16-episode show with two 8-episode shows. The 16 requires the writers spend more time getting paid. The two 8s means two full teams of writers. The 16 requires one premise that's been fleshed out. The two 8s require two. The 16 requires sets, props, and costumes. The two 8s require two full collections of the same. You get the idea - 16 episodes of one show costs less than 8 episodes each of two shows, as some of the expenses aren't repeated.

That's not to say that I expect 16 episode seasons, just that, in the middle of an era of hardcore cost cutting, I think we're going to see more in the 10+ range than we've been used to.

hepcat wrote: ↑Mon Apr 15, 2024 5:41 pm

I think premium channels like HBO and Showtime helped destroy that rule though. Folks got a look at how focused and well written shows like The Sopranos could be and they decided to support quality over quantity in greater numbers.

Ironically, The Sopranos had 13 episode seasons. I agree with Blackhawk's 12-16 ideal season count.

After years of meticulous research, I can say with utmost confidence that 12 is the perfect number. Deviate at your peril.

I think one hidden benefit of shorter seasons is the cast willing to work on them. I think it's not a coincidence that we started seeing more movie stars willing to be regulars in episodic television with shorter seasons. They might be more willing to commit to an 8-10 episode run than a 16-24 episode run.

Also, I don't like the way cereal boxes close today. The two flaps coming together don't hold as well as the old inserting the tab into the slot method.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:07 am Also, I don't like the way cereal boxes close today. The two flaps coming together don't hold as well as the old inserting the tab into the slot method.

My sized cardboard boxes have shrinkflationed to become more narrow so the the tab doesn't hold as well as it used to either.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:05 am I think one hidden benefit of shorter seasons is the cast willing to work on them. I think it's not a coincidence that we started seeing more movie stars willing to be regulars in episodic television with shorter seasons. They might be more willing to commit to an 8-10 episode run than a 16-24 episode run.

I'm not sure that is true. I've been following Katie Sackhoff on Youtube and one of her biggest complaints is the Hold placed on actors for these type of shows. The hold starts at the end of filming, not the start, and can be 9-12 months. While someone is held, she said it is functionally impossible to get another job. So these short series runs are tough on actors pocketbooks because they get paid per episode and then have to make it last for up to a year.

I love Katie Sackhoff's work, but she's not the type of movie star I'm talking about. I'm not sure she has the same pull as Jude Law or Jodie Foster. Maybe they have the same restrictions, but I'm guessing they get more flexibility in scheduling.

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:07 am Also, I don't like the way cereal boxes close today. The two flaps coming together don't hold as well as the old inserting the tab into the slot method.

We have several of these that I picked up at CostCo many years ago. They are perfect. The big CostCo Cheerios fits perfectly (40.7 oz size).
https://www.amazon.com/Snapware-Airtigh ... B0BLPCC7BJ

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:07 am Also, I don't like the way cereal boxes close today. The two flaps coming together don't hold as well as the old inserting the tab into the slot method.

I've struggled with this for ages. My paranoid mind continually thinks that by not sealing the box top, I'm inviting in "grain bugs" who will infest my cereal.

...seriously, this is how my mind works. I've never been a well man.

TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 10:21 am

ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:07 am Also, I don't like the way cereal boxes close today. The two flaps coming together don't hold as well as the old inserting the tab into the slot method.

We have several of these that I picked up at CostCo many years ago. They are perfect. The big CostCo Cheerios fits perfectly (40.7 oz size).
https://www.amazon.com/Snapware-Airtigh ... B0BLPCC7BJ

I end up just using binder clips from work. They used to throw them away by the 100s.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:08 pm I end up just using binder clips from work. They used to throw them away by the 100s.

Jesus, how many boxes of cereal did your office coworkers go through in a day????

Hmm all the cereal I buy has the little tab. But by the time you get them open and the cereal in the bag expands they just dont fit togethehr afterwards like they used to. I end up squishing them together or giving up. To my mind its the air of an open box that makes the cereal seem stale over time. So now if Im really worried Ill roll the bag down and put a clothes pin on it first. Otherwise I just roll it down, shove it down in the box good and hope.

I use the plastic storage containers as well. They keep it fresh longer than using binder clips. I also like them because we only have 2, and it prevents me from opening up another box of cereal before I've finished the previous one.

I was always worried about air again with those. Once you pour all the cereal out its all touched by air and then its in a bigger more open container with more air rather thhen in a rolled down bag. So they stay fresh? Keep in mind a box of cereal lasts me a month.

Bag clips for the boxed cereal.

the bagged cereal (which comes in bulk) goes into the tupperware cereal holders.

Some years back I bought a big pile of clips from amazon for a project, and I still have sooo many clips.

Wow its been 8 years? Anyway, if you need clips, these are worth it. So many, and nearly indestructible.

I like clothes pins.

I like the heavy duty office clips made for thick reams of paper. They have enough force to hold almost any bag closed.

dbt1949 wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 2:12 pm I like clothes pins.

Leave your nipple play fantasies out of this discussion....

We use plastic bins for cereal because we live in a 125-year-old house with plenty of ways for mice to get in.

once the cereal bag comes out of the Costco double-pack, i leave it out of the box and reuse a twist tie on it

I have teenagers. When they open a cereal box, they use 1/4 of the bag. It doesn’t last long enough for bugs.

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:08 pm I end up just using binder clips from work. They used to throw them away by the 100s.

I use these as well, for everything from snacks to vegetables. After continually breaking the flimsy plastic 'bag clips' or having them be so weak that they really didn't hold it closed well, or having them pop off if the bag had thicker material, I just bought two packs of extra large binder clips from Staples, and have been using them ever since. They hold better than commercial bag clips or clothespins, they're tougher, and they're cheap. They're considerably wider than clothespins, giving a better seal. And unlike most of those other options, they can lay flat against the bag instead of sticking straight up.

This size:

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 7:04 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 12:08 pm I end up just using binder clips from work. They used to throw them away by the 100s.

I use these as well, for everything from snacks to vegetables. After continually breaking the flimsy plastic 'bag clips' or having them be so weak that they really didn't hold it closed well, or having them pop off if the bag had thicker material, I just bought two packs of extra large binder clips from Staples, and have been using them ever since. They hold better than commercial bag clips or clothespins, they're tougher, and they're cheap. They're considerably wider than clothespins, giving a better seal. And unlike most of those other options, they can lay flat against the bag instead of sticking straight up.

This size:

Im listening to John William's score as I write this. Close Encounters of the Third Kind. A great movie. A classic. But a long movie and a slow movie. It take forever to get going and go anywhere. Even the ending is slow and drawn out. But I love it. I have an animated wallpaper from it. Just love to listen to the music every now and then.

Yes, but potato art!

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Apr 16, 2024 9:59 pm Yes, but potato art!

Mashed potatoes can be your friends

OOF!

I mean, UHF!

Such a fun movie.

I wish I was my old me now that Im old me.

The Tampa Bay airplane flight that changed history

Historian Rui Farias calls it “gigantic.” Chris Minner, an executive vice president at Tampa International Airport, thinks it was “revolutionary.” And leaders in St. Petersburg think so highly of it, there are not one but two memorials marking the event in the span of just a couple hundred feet. The event happened in 1914, 110 years ago. It involved a 24-mile, 23-minute flight carrying two people in one plane. It lifted off from St. Petersburg, right near where Albert Whitted Airport currently stands. The seaplane touched down on the Hillsborough River in Tampa less than half an hour later. It was the first scheduled commercial flight in history.

Should have just taken the Gandy.