That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/
Because I have never espoused the ideas? Jesus dude. You threw an accusation at me, based on not a shred of evidence because I wondered how much better staying in a system that does not serve the vast majority of people, and is getting worse. There's a massive distance between saying "let an exploitative system fail" and "Shovel massive amounts of people we don't like into mass graves"
There's a difference between throwing people into depression era circumstances temporarily and deporting them to death camps. Furthermore. Trying to smear me as espousing nazi like ideals is a shitty thing to do. I'm left to wonder if its because you have no idea how to fix things yourself, and reject mine out of hand because you're afraid I might actually be right.
A depression is way different then shoving someone's grandmother into an oven. Ways to get food, ways to work outside a system built by corporations. Further; If all you're going to do is try and tie me to Nazi ideals, I'd honestly rather we not interact.
1929.Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:16 pm Name one time when an economic collapse didn’t consolidate power among the wealthy and privileged? Not only is the “burn it all down” attitude stupid, but it’s counter productive.
The more people who opt out or to let it all burn down means the more people who aren’t participating in and demanding improvements or voting to remove the Republicans who will make things worse.
How many times do we have to point out that your attitude is part of the political problem? And bad for your mental health.
Seriously, get some help. People do not deserve to die because you feel powerless and impotent.
You might just be right. I have it better then most for being so poor. I don't know why I'm so angry at the system. It actually serves me pretty well. I think what I really need is another week away from R&P. I get enough of seeing about the failures of the system when I take a walk outside.Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:38 pm Another prediction: Votes are taken but the reconciliation bill doesn’t get finished until November. You can clutch your pearls all you want, but something gets passed by the Democrats eventually.
President Biden will twist arms at the end, and Manchin + Sienna become blamed/take credit. Republicans cry crocodile tears about socialism, trying to drive people to stay home or vote for crazy.
I might be spoiled, but most Americans aren't. They're working three jobs to get by, or are facing homelessness or are dying of preventable diseases because idiots wont get vaccinated. Things are bad but most American's won't complain because they're conditioned to think it's their fault, and too busy keeping a roof over their head.Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:52 pm Talk with someone who had to bribe their local Russian housing authority to not have a non-related fourth family moved into their apartment every quarter. And that you could be followed on those walks by an untouchable local criminal organization looking to profit off you while your walk took you past a store with nothing on the shelves.
Maybe then you’ll see how it actually works for you better than the alternatives. In her words, Americans are spoiled and have no idea about suffering.
https://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-ways-m ... 47068.htmlDrazzil wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:22 pmI might be spoiled, but most Americans aren't. They're working three jobs to get by, or are facing homelessness or are dying of preventable diseases because idiots wont get vaccinated. Things are bad but most American's won't complain because they're conditioned to think it's their fault, and too busy keeping a roof over their head.Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:52 pm Talk with someone who had to bribe their local Russian housing authority to not have a non-related fourth family moved into their apartment every quarter. And that you could be followed on those walks by an untouchable local criminal organization looking to profit off you while your walk took you past a store with nothing on the shelves.
Maybe then you’ll see how it actually works for you better than the alternatives. In her words, Americans are spoiled and have no idea about suffering.
I just have too damn much time to think about things. Again. I think it might be best for me to take a week off, because I'm only frustrating myself, and no one is having their minds changed. Oh well.
American men are spoiled.Almost one-third of all working-age men in America aren’t doing diddly-squat. They don’t have a job, and they aren’t looking for one either. One-third of all working-age men. That’s almost 30 million people!
Only as much as a bottle of mayo left out overnight.Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:29 pmhttps://finance.yahoo.com/news/7-ways-m ... 47068.htmlDrazzil wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 11:22 pmI might be spoiled, but most Americans aren't. They're working three jobs to get by, or are facing homelessness or are dying of preventable diseases because idiots wont get vaccinated. Things are bad but most American's won't complain because they're conditioned to think it's their fault, and too busy keeping a roof over their head.Zarathud wrote: ↑Sun Sep 19, 2021 10:52 pm Talk with someone who had to bribe their local Russian housing authority to not have a non-related fourth family moved into their apartment every quarter. And that you could be followed on those walks by an untouchable local criminal organization looking to profit off you while your walk took you past a store with nothing on the shelves.
Maybe then you’ll see how it actually works for you better than the alternatives. In her words, Americans are spoiled and have no idea about suffering.
I just have too damn much time to think about things. Again. I think it might be best for me to take a week off, because I'm only frustrating myself, and no one is having their minds changed. Oh well.
American men are spoiled.Almost one-third of all working-age men in America aren’t doing diddly-squat. They don’t have a job, and they aren’t looking for one either. One-third of all working-age men. That’s almost 30 million people!
El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:45 pm I feel like the Democratic centrists haven't really come to terms with how much leverage the progressive wings have in this. They both need each other, but if this all blows up and the Biden presidency comes crashing down, its the moderates who will get swept out of office first.
It is like they can't see that almost everything in the proposal is very popular with the public. It's bad policy and politics to play this game. The usual Democratic party circular firing squad at its worst.El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Sep 20, 2021 6:45 pm I feel like the Democratic centrists haven't really come to terms with how much leverage the progressive wings have in this. They both need each other, but if this all blows up and the Biden presidency comes crashing down, its the moderates who will get swept out of office first.
As Democrats hurtle into the final stretch of negotiations over the multi-trillion-dollar reconciliation bill, centrists holding out against its spending levels are spinning a new narrative about how we got here.
Don’t let them get away with this rewrite. If President Biden’s agenda does implode — which seems at least possible — the centrists themselves will be the ones to blame.
This also should prompt a reconsideration of the mythology that centrists, unlike progressives, are distinguished by their steely, clear-eyed determination to make Washington “work,” and their refusal to let hard governing realities get obscured by gauzy ideological nebula clouds.
The latest standoff concerns the process by which House Democrats will pass the $1 trillion bipartisan “hard” infrastructure bill that passed the Senate, and the $3.5 trillion “human” infrastructure reconciliation bill.
Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-Ariz.) has made similar threats. Meanwhile, Sen. Joe Manchin III (D-W.Va.) wants a reconciliation “pause."
This is likely posturing. Centrists want to reduce the spending and taxes in the reconciliation package, and want Democrats to pass the infrastructure bill on Sept. 27 — as House Speaker Nancy Pelosi (D-Calif.) has agreed to try to do. But progressives are vowing to vote down that bill, until the Senate completes a reconciliation one. So such centrist threats seem designed to increase leverage.
The centrists’ story here is that they piously want to get something done. But they are being held “hostage” by progressives in thrall to in-the-clouds ideological fantasies so radical that voting for this would be worse politically for them than imploding Biden’s entire agenda.
A review is in order.
This situation largely flows from the fact that centrists such as Manchin and Sinema insisted on pursuing a bipartisan infrastructure bill in the Senate. Progressives opposed this, believing (correctly) that it would squander valuable time, and because Democrats always could pass everything by reconciliation alone.
But progressives essentially accepted this outcome. Remember: Back in March, progressives reached a general understanding with the White House. They would swallow the need for moderates to try for Republican support on infrastructure, on the understanding that progressive priorities would pass by reconciliation later.
So progressives made accommodations at the outset. The “two track” strategy arose to ensure that the two sides would exert leverage on one another, holding the party together. But a small band of centrists threatened to oppose a procedural vote to start the reconciliation process, forcing Democratic leaders to rupture the two tracks with a planned Sept. 27 infrastructure vote.
There was never any serious rationale for that, but regardless, it is in response to that move that progressives are threatening to vote no. In so doing, progressives are just trying to maintain the original two-track strategy, which is rooted in a hardheaded appraisal of both factions’ needs.
By no means have progressives been blameless. They’re often too quick to accuse moderates of being squishy sellouts. And it’s still unclear whether progressives will accept reductions in the reconciliation bill needed to keep centrists on board. But on balance, progressives have been the true realists here.
As Jamelle Bouie writes, centrists enjoy the image of being “grown-ups," because they tend to come from swing districts and supposedly have a “sense of the possible.” But as Bouie notes, progressives have already reduced their reconciliation demands. And they have a more realistic assessment of the politics. What’s at stake is the success of the Biden agenda: The party will rise and fall with that together.
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Yet more detail - for those playing at home it sounds like they added flaming hoops to the high wire act.Pelosi explained her thinking in a rare Monday night caucus session, saying she and President Joe Biden are continuing to push the Senate on negotiations related to the social spending package, but the House must move ahead on infrastructure this week before surface transportation funding expires Thursday.
The speaker had declared earlier this summer that the House would only pass Biden’s bipartisan infrastructure bill if both chambers had also agreed to the party’s broader social spending plan. The California Democrat privately told members that the thinking began to change 10 days ago when she learned that Democrats would need to scale back the initial $3.5 trillion price tag for that spending bill — a massive legislative task.
“It all changed, so our approach had to change," Pelosi told her caucus Monday, according to Democrats present.
“We had to accommodate the changes that were being necessitated.” And we cannot be ready to say, she added, “Until the Senate passed the bill, we can’t do [infrastructure].”
The California Democrat said Biden and Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer continue to push Senate moderates to agree to a topline spending target, saying spending bill action in her chamber is effectively frozen until that happens.
"We are not going to pass a bill that won’t pass the Senate. And that's why we have to come up with a number," Pelosi told Democrats. "But we're not there yet.”
But even as Pelosi attempted to rally her caucus around the new plan, the senator who would be key to any deal showed no movement.
“It would be a shame if anyone took credit for sinking an infrastructure bill this country needs," said Sen. Joe Manchin (D-W.Va.), adding that those warnings would not affect him. “I don’t do really good on threats," he said.
FWIW Jayapal seemed to be expressing some level of surprise and she is in the room. I agree something will be passed but the longer this drags out the worse it is for them. Especially if people don't like what comes out the other end.
Joe Manchin released a statement on Wednesday afternoon panning his colleagues’ spending plans as “fiscal insanity.” Then he started to lay out how he wants to work on President Joe Biden’s family plan.
As all of Washington hangs on his every word, Manchin said he did want to clinch a reconciliation bill even as some progressives fear he’s trying to kill the whole thing. But rather than approach the effort as the multi-trillion-dollar social spending and climate change bill envisioned by his colleagues, Manchin said Democrats needed to start with gutting the 2017 Trump tax cuts and go from there.
“I want to do a tax overhaul. One thing you understand that all Democrats agreed on, there’s not a lot of things we all agree on, is that the 2017 tax cuts are unfair and weighted toward the high end. Let’s fix that. That’s the reconciliation,” Manchin said. “I think we can get a good bill done. I really do, if we work in good faith.”
The House will vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that Manchin helped negotiate on Thursday, but Manchin’s remarks aren’t helping his bill succeed. Progressives are eager to sink the legislation after he said Wednesday that it's "not possible" to get an agreement on the larger spending package before the infrastructure vote.
“This is why we’re not voting for the bipartisan bill until we get a reconciliation bill,” Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) told reporters. “After that statement we probably have even more people willing to vote no.”
And for Manchin the timetable is months, not days or weeks. He said he would also focus on extending the child tax credit that expires at the end of the year, a strong signal that Dec. 31 may be the true deadline for passage of a reconciliation package even as congressional leaders desperately try to force action this fall.
Manchin and Sinema are scum. They are sandbagging and working with Moscow's Bitch McConell to run out the clock. Pure and simple.malchior wrote: ↑Thu Sep 30, 2021 12:23 am Manchin will not budge and worse he is digging in with new nonsense 11th hour alternative plans and 1990s era economic policy ideas.
Edit: One interesting story line that is coming out is that hill reporters are starting to needle Manchin and Sinema with questions about specific policies they'd like to see cut or what their spending targets are. They get nothing. This is echoing the speculation and leaks that there is no negotiation actually happening with them. They may very well want their 'bipartisan' bill only and this is just delay to put pressure on the House to take something over nothing.
Joe Manchin released a statement on Wednesday afternoon panning his colleagues’ spending plans as “fiscal insanity.” Then he started to lay out how he wants to work on President Joe Biden’s family plan.
As all of Washington hangs on his every word, Manchin said he did want to clinch a reconciliation bill even as some progressives fear he’s trying to kill the whole thing. But rather than approach the effort as the multi-trillion-dollar social spending and climate change bill envisioned by his colleagues, Manchin said Democrats needed to start with gutting the 2017 Trump tax cuts and go from there.
“I want to do a tax overhaul. One thing you understand that all Democrats agreed on, there’s not a lot of things we all agree on, is that the 2017 tax cuts are unfair and weighted toward the high end. Let’s fix that. That’s the reconciliation,” Manchin said. “I think we can get a good bill done. I really do, if we work in good faith.”
The House will vote on the bipartisan infrastructure bill that Manchin helped negotiate on Thursday, but Manchin’s remarks aren’t helping his bill succeed. Progressives are eager to sink the legislation after he said Wednesday that it's "not possible" to get an agreement on the larger spending package before the infrastructure vote.
“This is why we’re not voting for the bipartisan bill until we get a reconciliation bill,” Rep. Pramila Jayapal (D-Wash.) told reporters. “After that statement we probably have even more people willing to vote no.”
And for Manchin the timetable is months, not days or weeks. He said he would also focus on extending the child tax credit that expires at the end of the year, a strong signal that Dec. 31 may be the true deadline for passage of a reconciliation package even as congressional leaders desperately try to force action this fall.
Between this an the news that Sinema has been scheduling fundraisers with conservative PACs, it's pretty clear we're all boned.Democrat Sen. Joe Manchin is pushing back on a Democratic plan to push a “Medicaid-like” measure through the reconciliation bill for one simple reason: it lacks the Hyde amendment, which bars the use of federal funds for abortion.
The moderate, pro-life West Virginia Democrat said the bill is “dead on arrival” in the Senate without the Hyde amendment, telling National Review that “it has to be" included.
Risk levels? For what exactly? To speed the train actively falling off the cliff from intial inertia to terminal velocity?
WATCH OUT EVERYBODY!! We're hitting the ground 3 seconds faster, now! 