Star Wars: The Old Republic

[GreenGoo]

A major problem that I have with this videos is that the designers can't seem to make up their minds about just what a light saber can do. In one movie it's slices through a hunk of metal while in another scene a near point blank strike to the face results in a gash? In one of the earlier ones a light saber is tripping rather than dismembering goons them?

I thought it was firmly established that a light saber cuts through just about anything other than another light saber...

Wait for one of the Star Wars nerds to swing around, but in the meantime I'm fairly sure there is an armour alloy that is resistant to sabers. Not sure if the mandalorian armour is made out of it or not. In any case, yeah, it looked odd to have a light saber sweep a leg instead of cutting it off.

My issue with these videos (which are fantastic) is that the game is unlikely to be anything like them. Galaxies had nice videos too, and it was a dog. I just didn't realize how sucky it was since it was my first mmo.

[McBa1n]

Yeah I watched the EA press conference yesterday and the Old Republic stuff twice. The first time I was just jumping into what was going on and seeing the action and being like 'O M F G this is what we've always talked about'. Then I looked at the game play videos and rewatched what they showed. These are 2 different things. I was really excited at first, now less excited. I know my expectations are for it to exceed what's been done, but that's asking a lot and asking for faster internets and technology. Meh. I have a feeling it will be a lot like WoW, but there's just still too much unknown. I dunno, at this stage of computing/tech, there really isn't much excuse to show videos rendered for show, rather than have those videos done within the framework of the game. It just seems like you have something to hide.... Or the game is still a long ways off. That all said, SSX and Battlefield 3 knocked my socks off with what was shown.

[The Bad Shepherd]

A major problem that I have with this videos is that the designers can't seem to make up their minds about just what a light saber can do. In one movie it's slices through a hunk of metal while in another scene a near point blank strike to the face results in a gash? In one of the earlier ones a light saber is tripping rather than dismembering goons them?

I thought it was firmly established that a light saber cuts through just about anything other than another light saber...

Two types of lightsaber resistant alloys I know of: Cortosis, which is simple, but widespread, and it is what allowed the regular vibroblades in Kotor survive lightsabers.
Beskar: Which is what Mandalorian armor is made out of. It's hideously rare though, because it only forms on one planet (I think).

Apart from that, gameplay and story segregation. That is all.

[ska5fe]

My issue with these videos (which are fantastic) is that the game is unlikely to be anything like them. Galaxies had nice videos too, and it was a dog. I just didn't realize how sucky it was since it was my first mmo.

Same here. I know it's not even the same team developing it, but I'm still gunshy about the Old Republic simply because of how terrible Galaxies was. That's how mind-blowingly awful of an experience it was.

[Daehawk]

I expect TOR to be a lot like KOTOR and if so that's fine by me.

[Doomboy]

I expect TOR to be a lot like KOTOR and if so that's fine by me.

I'm pretty sure that is what they are going for, from all the previews I have read in all the years they have been talking about it. I too will be satisfied if it is like KOTOR. This might just be the first MMO I play for more than a few weeks.

As long as I get my Bioware type gameplay and story and I am not forced to play with others to get through certain spots in the story, I will enjoy it.

[The Bad Shepherd]

Just saw the cinematic. Thoughts:
I like how all the technology looks almost the exact same 4,000 years earlier. Still got your star destroyers, clone troopers (they may not be clones, but the armor is basically the exact same), still got a vaguely Millenium Falconesque ship...Indiana Jones is a new, but unwelcome addition to this universe.
Wow, use more slow motion guys. It really ups the dramatic ante. Seriously, everyone overuses this. I would hope that Bioware, who are fond of subverting the cliche, would at least catch on that this isn't exactly, well, original.
Astonishing choreography. Is it going to be in the game? It would be impressive if it was in the game. It's in the game, right guys?
I can see why people would complain, that lightsaber should have taken that guy's head off. Even if it was a sodding Cortosis weave: there are lightsaber RESISTANT materials in the universe, and they are uncommon. Fully immune material? Only the Mandalorians should have that.
DROIDEKA?! SERIOUSLY?!

Okay, my rant is over. I'm probably going to play the game, but damn if I am not a little disappointed at their basic character and technology design so far. It basically looks like: Take Star Wars Technology. Make it look slightly older, which means making it look blockier. Sell game. Profit.

I do not see this MMO surviving. But hey, it's Bioware, if anyone could prove me wrong, it would be them.

[GreenGoo]

As long as I get my Bioware type gameplay and story and I am not forced to play with others to get through certain spots in the story, I will enjoy it.

You realize that this is an MMO, right? So "story" might be a stretch. It's possible I guess. Does WoW have a story? It's a random mishmash of all sorts of folklore, sci fi and fantasy memes. But unifying story? I'd argue that it doesn't, and that most MMO's don't.

And there is close to zero chance that if there is a story, it can be solo'd. Yeah, they could do some sort of scaling thing, but that has proven to be hard to accomplish for most games so far. The main stuff is almost always reserved for groups of people, and rightly so imo, given the underlying nature of the game.

Which is not to say there can't be loads of stuff to do solo. WoW was unbelievably flexible in this regard, even though the "big" stuff all required a group, and not just a random group, but a coordinated group.

I'm not trying to burst your bubble and perhaps I'm telling you things you already know, but given your quoted line above, I think you are in for a world of disappointment, and I say that without knowing a single thing about the game mechanics at all, yet.

Perhaps I'll be wrong. That would be interesting.

[TiLT]

A major problem that I have with this videos is that the designers can't seem to make up their minds about just what a light saber can do. In one movie it's slices through a hunk of metal while in another scene a near point blank strike to the face results in a gash? In one of the earlier ones a light saber is tripping rather than dismembering goons them?

I thought it was firmly established that a light saber cuts through just about anything other than another light saber...

Except pretty much every Star Wars game has tried to out-compete each other in coming up with ludicrous stuff that stops light sabers. I expect The Old Republic to be no different.

[Sepiche]

You realize that this is an MMO, right? So "story" might be a stretch. It's possible I guess. Does WoW have a story? It's a random mishmash of all sorts of folklore, sci fi and fantasy memes. But unifying story? I'd argue that it doesn't, and that most MMO's don't.

And there is close to zero chance that if there is a story, it can be solo'd. Yeah, they could do some sort of scaling thing, but that has proven to be hard to accomplish for most games so far. The main stuff is almost always reserved for groups of people, and rightly so imo, given the underlying nature of the game.

Have you read anything about SWO yet? From what I understand that's exactly how they are promoting it... a Kotor style game (story and all) that you can play solo or with friends. Each class is going to have it's own unique storyline too. Sure they've taken a healthy dose of mechanics from WoW, but from what I've read the RPG portions are pure Bioware.

[GreenGoo]

Have you read anything about SWO yet?

No, which is why I said I could be wrong, that it would be interesting if I was, and that I hadn't read anything about the game mechanics yet. =P

Not sure I want an KOTOR MMO, except as a backdrop to the game. Hopefully others enjoy it though.

[Doomboy]

Everything I have read over the years has lead me to believe it will be a typical Bioware RPG. With the addition of being able to play with friends. They have said in the past that you will acquire a group of NPCs to follow you around, that you will have voiced dialog, that you get your own ship to travel around in, basically KOTOR with multiplayer. And of course, a monthly fee.

I will be disappointed if it turns out to be different from what I have been reading for a couple of years now. Because that would mean that they turned around and scrapped everything they have been working on.

[WarPanda]

Thanks Sepiche! Was biting my tongue there.

It is Bioware....its going to have plenty of stories. The cinematography of the videos they released are sure fun to watch and aside from letting you in on some toon classes and potential story arcs it says nothing much about gameplay, and game play and graphics are where its at...for me.

I know it is not done yet but I think the graphics of the game do not look good and up to par. I am rather picky really. There are lots of games with bad graphics that are fun. I know that, its cool, just not generally for me. If this game does not have graphic quality like Rift or better, then I doubt i will play long. It has to look damn good to keep me in there and be damn fun. Right now Rift has both.

This is most likely going to be some merger between every MMO you have ever played and a Bioware game. They have some pretty cool features planned which sound interesting and potentially immersive. I am excited and reserve final judgement until I am sitting down with some friends and playing it.

[GreenGoo]

I look forward to seeing what they do with it.

Again, without reading anything but what's in this thread, it sounds like they are basically making a bioware rpg, making it coop, putting it online, and charging a monthly fee?

If so, no thanks. Which is fine, I'm just not in the target demographic. I can't imagine there being enough content in a game like that to keep me coming back for more and paying for the privilege. Of course I only find bioware's rpgs a fun distraction and haven't paid full price or even finished one since KotOR. In fact I'm pretty sure I bought that on sale too.

Single player rpgs and MMO's aren't very much alike, besides the RP part in the name. The design has to be different, the play style has to be MUCH different (putting everyone on the same rails isn't compelling for a lot of people) and the content has to be constantly expanding in order to keep let alone grow their customer base. And they have to keep players satisfied and paying somehow so that the developers have enough time to design, make, test and release the new content.

I'm glad someone is taking a chance and diverting from MMO design 101. I'm just not sure this particular divergence is going to be interesting to me.

I'll keep a close eye on it though, now that it is somewhat close to completion.

[GreenGoo]

Thanks Sepiche! Was biting my tongue there.

It is Bioware....its going to have plenty of stories.

That's meaningless to me but if you say so. MMO gameplay is measured in hundreds and thousands of hours. At least the successful ones are. If they threw all currently published "stories" together in a linear fashion, some players would burn through it in the first month. By the 6 month stage, the average player will be bored and looking for things to do.

This is made worse by a bioware linear storyline, not better.

As someone who hadn't even heard of this game before this thread was made, I have gone from some excitement for a new Star Wars MMO (especially since galaxies was TERRIBLE in retrospect) to near dismay at what I'm reading. Which is not to say that my opinion means anything to others, but it is my opinion thus far.

[Sepiche]

Personally the story aspect is what I have the most interest in. I like MMO's in theory, but I have a lot of trouble grinding through content if there's no story to keep me hooked, and the thin gruel of a story most MMOs have just isn't enough for me. The quote I've heard is there is enough content going into SWO for 4 separate Kotor games.

I can see how it's not for everyone, but I'm really looking forward to being able to play through this coop.

[GreenGoo]

Personally the story aspect is what I have the most interest in. I like MMO's in theory, but I have a lot of trouble grinding through content if there's no story to keep me hooked, and the thin gruel of a story most MMOs have just isn't enough for me. The quote I've heard is there is enough content going into SWO for 4 separate Kotor games.

I can see how it's not for everyone, but I'm really looking forward to being able to play through this coop.

Story is definitely lacking in MMO's. People want stories and they want their actions to impact the world. Unfortunately the nature of the game and the EXPENSE of altering the world keep this from becoming a reality except in minor ways (for the individual) or a major upgrade/expansion (for the servers).

Sure some npcs will treat you differently/talk to you differently after finishing a quest line or something, but it's very hard to pull off convincingly.

Of course if everything is on rails then it becomes a little easier to do, but some (a lot?) of the appeal of an MMO is degrees of freedom available to the player.

I hope it meets the expectations of those looking for bioware's special brand of rpg and story telling.

[Arkon]

Everything I have read over the years has lead me to believe it will be a typical Bioware RPG. With the addition of being able to play with friends. They have said in the past that you will acquire a group of NPCs to follow you around, that you will have voiced dialog, that you get your own ship to travel around in, basically KOTOR with multiplayer. And of course, a monthly fee.

I will be disappointed if it turns out to be different from what I have been reading for a couple of years now. Because that would mean that they turned around and scrapped everything they have been working on.

I would say you will most likely not be disappointed then.

[Teggy]

The only thing canon-wise that bothers me is the troopers. If they had big ships a long time ago that happened to be triangle shaped? Meh, big deal. But it's well established why Stormtrooper armor looks like it does, and it this game you can basically be a Stormtrooper, and that's just silly.

That said, the Trooper armor is really cool looking.

[Doomboy]

Everything I have read over the years has lead me to believe it will be a typical Bioware RPG. With the addition of being able to play with friends. They have said in the past that you will acquire a group of NPCs to follow you around, that you will have voiced dialog, that you get your own ship to travel around in, basically KOTOR with multiplayer. And of course, a monthly fee.

I will be disappointed if it turns out to be different from what I have been reading for a couple of years now. Because that would mean that they turned around and scrapped everything they have been working on.

I would say you will most likely not be disappointed then.

That's good, because the typical MMO has no interest for me after a couple of weeks. Some even less. Running around looking for people with question marks over their head, grabbing all their quests and then grinding out gnoll ears or troll eyes or whatever for a half hour and then running back and grabbing the rewards before looking for another guy with a question mark over his head, sucks.

No decent reason for doing it, never knowing why or where I am going someplace to kill something for a while, bores me.

I know there is stuff written there on the quests, but I never have time to read them or figure anything out because the rest of the group is just trying to hurry me along. It is just chaos and confusion for me.

Playing this solo, with occasional bouts of multiplayer with equally minded people sounds like fun. I can take my time and play my way.

[GreenGoo]

I was just wondering how they are planning to handle socializing and/or grouping?

Is there going to be a centralized hub where people in between storylines or just taking a break can hang out and chat? Are there going to be servers with hundreds of players and you can see and chat with or is there going to be a lobby that you find a group in before entering the game? Any similarities between TOR and guild wars? Or perhaps D&D Online?

How do you avoid spoilers in a MMO story driven RPG?

[The Bad Shepherd]

I was just wondering how they are planning to handle socializing and/or grouping?

Is there going to be a centralized hub where people in between storylines or just taking a break can hang out and chat? Are there going to be servers with hundreds of players and you can see and chat with or is there going to be a lobby that you find a group in before entering the game? Any similarities between TOR and guild wars? Or perhaps D&D Online?

How do you avoid spoilers in a MMO story driven RPG?

I know there are "Hardpoints", which are basically instances.
I also know that plot events can happen here, and all the players in the group make a decision. The game then picks a random player and uses that decision. I think PvP uses a Battleground system, and I have no idea how open world it is. Most of the info I got from the Rock, Paper, Shotgun preview. It was mostly positive, though he noted the game seemed almost irritated at itself for having a multiplayer aspect.

[JoeMoustache]

Last I checked TOR was very much like WoW but in space, a Star Wars space granted, but it had its fair share of kill 10 of these and collect 4 of those. However, it did have cut-scenes with story choices. Certainly more involved than say the Harrison Jones quests in Uldum. Those being simple compared the TOR story elements, but that comparison will get you half way there.

I do want TOR to succeed as MMO's need more story (life) rather than a repetitive soul-less grindfest. Guild Wars 2 is looking pretty good too, and it seems to be more innovative.

[Daehawk]

I hope it blows expectations away. I want this to make it. I'm sick of fantasy mmos. I must have me a good sci-fi epic mmo to waste time in . Star Wars is the perfect setting for me too. just do it already and let me play.

[ydejin]

Yeah I watched the EA press conference yesterday and the Old Republic stuff twice. The first time I was just jumping into what was going on and seeing the action and being like 'O M F G this is what we've always talked about'. Then I looked at the game play videos and rewatched what they showed. These are 2 different things. I was really excited at first, now less excited. I know my expectations are for it to exceed what's been done, but that's asking a lot and asking for faster internets and technology. Meh. I have a feeling it will be a lot like WoW, but there's just still too much unknown. I dunno, at this stage of computing/tech, there really isn't much excuse to show videos rendered for show, rather than have those videos done within the framework of the game. It just seems like you have something to hide.... Or the game is still a long ways off. That all said, SSX and Battlefield 3 knocked my socks off with what was shown.

I'd guess they show pre-rendered CG for the same reason why Blizzard often does for games like Starcraft. MMO footage just doesn't look as flashy as an FPS; same way watching a RTS just doesn't look all that flashy, in fact, I'd argue for an RTS, designing the UI to make it look good in marketing videos might actually make the game less fun to play, since the more "visual" perspectives, aren't necessarily the most strategically interesting ones.

Personally I'm not very fond of the SWTOR art style, but I do think it's well chosen to maximize the number of computers that can play it, and still have it look good -- similar to WoW's cartoony style. So they might be a bit self-conscious about that as well.

There's actually a fair bit of gameplay footage around of varying lengths. Just a couple official examples.

• From E3: 45 minutes of Tatooine solo gameplay up here.
• From PAX East: 20 minutes of a group instance up here.

They let people at the last PAX play for quite sometime. That's random people on the show floor, not press members. There's a lot of random youtube video out from people playing it, although the audio is generally pretty crappy on these, since the background noise is very high. So I see no sign that they are trying to "hide" something.

I won't be surprised if it drops back to 2012 though.

[ydejin]

I expect TOR to be a lot like KOTOR and if so that's fine by me.

That's my expectations as well, and I've been following it rather closely. I see it as KOTOR as its base with standard MMO systems alongside including group instances (aka dungeons), raids, gathering and crafting, auction houses, social areas, etc. But there's a real central focus on KOTOR-style story telling which will be very soloable, but also can be done with small groups.

[ydejin]

...
Astonishing choreography. Is it going to be in the game? It would be impressive if it was in the game. It's in the game, right guys?
...

From what I've seen the combat choreography is much better than what's seen in a standard MMO. They've spent a fair amount of time and effort to make the lightsaber combat look like lightsaber combat. Lightsabers will block each other in a choreographed manner and sparks will fly. Lightsabers will deflect blaster bolt fire. Characters have balletic attack and finishing moves.

It is somewhat dependent on who is fighting who. Fighting against creatures instead of humans ends up looking like standard RPG/MMO fare with you just whacking a stick up and down and no actual blocking shown. But overall I'd say the actual game shows much better choreography than found in a typical MMO.

[Daehawk]

From E3: 45 minutes of Tatooine solo gameplay up here.

A Jawa crew member!!...or is that a companion only?..Eh who cares..JAWA!! hehehe

[GreenGoo]

I watched a video on (what I think was) the official SWTOR site which contained a fair bit of gameplay footage, although it was still a promo video so it was cut all over the place with fast camera angle changes and all that. At first I was a little let down, but I realized this was because I enjoyed the cgi so much. I wasn't naive enough to think the gameplay would be similar, but emotionally I was let down anyway, despite understanding that the gameplay couldn't match the cgi.

I couldn't really form an opinion on the gameplay. On the one hand it looked like standard mmo combat. On the other hand, every once in awhile there would be a combat move thrown in that was more interesting.

So no change in the positive or negative direction for me. I'll have to read more, learn more and see more to get a better feeling for the game. An open beta would sure help though.

[Daehawk]

2 more videos...and the trooper/bounty hunter dancing? WRONG on so many levels.

Tatooine walthrough
Features

[Scuzz]

I expect TOR to be a lot like KOTOR and if so that's fine by me.

if that actually happens then it would be the game of the year..........easily

but i have no desire to do an MMO.........

[cheeba]

2 more videos...and the trooper/bounty hunter dancing? WRONG on so many levels.

The guy that's doing some (or all? dunno) of the in-game cinematics for them is the guy that made Fett's Vette in Star Wars Galaxies. He's no stranger to bounty hunter dancing .

[Daehawk]

Collector's edition info....

Exclusive Gentle Giant Darth Malgus statue
Star Wars: The Old Republic game discs in collectible metal case
The Journal of Master Gnost-Dural annotated by Satele Shan
Old Republic galaxy map
Custom Security Authentication Key (i.e. Authenticator)
Exclusive Music of Star Wars: The Old Republic CD
High-Quality Collector's Edition Box



Got to have me a Sith Lord statue.

The Collector's Edition will also include seven digital items:

Flare Gun: Fire flares into the air
Training Droid: Hovers at your side for combat assistance
HoloDancer: Project your own holographic dancer
HoloCam: Keep visual records of in-game adventures
STAP: Sleek and unique in-game vehicle
Exclusive Mouse Droid: Spun-ky droid to join your adventures
Exclusive Collector's Edition Store: Unique in-game vendor with a dynamic assortment of items

[Avenger]

I got the physical copy (Which I never do) through amazon.com to get all the goodies. The collectors edition. $150 dollars? LOL.

It says that the order that you register your pre-order is the order that they accept you to the beta, so I registered my pre-order.

[coopasonic]

It says that the order that you register your pre-order is the order that they accept you to the beta, so I registered my pre-order.

FAQ:

Does pre-ordering affect my chances of being accepted into the Game Testing Program for Star Wars: The Old Republic?

No, pre-ordering the Game in no way affects your chances of gaining entrance to the Game Testing Program. However, the sooner you redeem your Pre-Order Code the sooner you will be eligible to gain Early Game Access.

The pre-order page:

The order in which you redeem your Pre-order Code is the order in which you will gain Early Game Access before the game’s official release.

They are talking about early access to the release.

[Sectoid]

I pre-ordered it. Hopefully it will release without a hitch.

[Sepiche]

My willpower lasted all of 4 minutes. Pre-ordered.

Now that I've shelled out money though, I better see that invite roll in soon.

[cheeba]

Yeah pre-orders are weird. It said I am likely to get a pre-order. Um, ok, good. Now I just have to wait for a code, I guess? Geez. And somehow this early access is supposed to be to improve service. Ugh.

[Sepiche]

Yeah the whole pre-order setup seems a little over complicated.

You get an email with a code from EA-Origin and then have to log into the Star Wars: The Old Republic website and register that code with them to confirm your pre-order. I think you also need to use a tool they provide to give them your system specs before they'll consider you for a beta invite.

[Smoove_B]

They haven't actually confirmed a release date yet either, right? Or the specific pricing plan?