Jagged Alliance 3 (again!)

[Madmarcus]

I think the enemies move too far when they scatter but it doesn't actually feel bad to me. It feels like an action movie. One guy dies, everyone else reacts and then, if you've managed to place everyone beforehand, the rest of the team picks off more of the enemies before there is any return fire.

[coopasonic]

Anyway, Maybe this is why I don't see much issue with it. I am used to it. 600 hours of XCOM2 will do that to you.

Maybe, but I loved XCOM and despised XCOM2. The prior felt like a tactical game (like JA3), while the latter felt like a puzzle game.

Maybe when I get through this sudden on-rush of must play games, I'll go back and replay XCOM. It has been a while and I play so many different games I have a hard time comparing unless I have recent experience. Honestly the difference may just be that XCOM2 punishes getting hit more and I always played to kill them all before they can even attack so take no damage so I didn't see the difference.

[coopasonic]

One negative about the enemy scatter into overwatch thing is the ammo consumption. A lot of ammo is wasted on that. The XCOM games don't have limited ammo so it's not a concern. It's a HUGE concern in JA3, like I can't have two people using the same ammo type level of concern.

[Blackhawk]

Anyway, Maybe this is why I don't see much issue with it. I am used to it. 600 hours of XCOM2 will do that to you.

Maybe, but I loved XCOM and despised XCOM2. The prior felt like a tactical game (like JA3), while the latter felt like a puzzle game.

Maybe when I get through this sudden on-rush of must play games, I'll go back and replay XCOM. It has been a while and I play so many different games I have a hard time comparing unless I have recent experience. Honestly the difference may just be that XCOM2 punishes getting hit more and I always played to kill them all before they can even attack so take no damage so I didn't see the difference.

I've gone over it in XCOM2 thread (and don't want to derail this one), but my problem with 2 (and keep in mind that it's been a few years - my memory is fuzzy) was that, while in 1 you could play it multiple ways, in 2 it pushed certain playstyles and punished others. That game did not seem to want defensive play. Cover? Enemies reach over and pull you out if it. Sniper in the back on overwatch? Teleporting enemy. I went and did a fair of research on how to avoid the problems, and practically every piece of advice I saw was to be aggressive, push, push, push, and kill the enemies before they could act. That kind of aggressive rushing playstyle is anathema to me - I prefer a careful, thought-out approach.

[jztemple2]

because I have to have room for that third set of night vision goggles I will never equip.

I just did an underground level with three of my folks equipped with night googles. I couldn't really tell if they helped or not. It would be nice if there was some indication on the screen of the effect that the googles had on aiming.

[Smoove_B]

That kind of aggressive rushing playstyle is anathema to me - I prefer a careful, thought-out approach.

You might have just solved for me why I could never get into that game with your explanation. Awesome.

[jztemple2]

Dammit, I've forgotten the location that takes only the Grand Chien money. I have wads of it but it's apparently worthless except at that one place. You can use spoiler tags if you wish.

[coopasonic]

Dammit, I've forgotten the location that takes only the Grand Chien money. I have wads of it but it's apparently worthless except at that one place. You can use spoiler tags if you wish.

Location name, I don't remember the grid coordinates:

Spoiler:

Port Cacao

Bonus spoiler:

Spoiler:

You can blow up the wall to rob the bank he tells you about for a pile of that cash

[Punisher]

FYI.
Mods are starting to flow in Steam Workshop.
One that people might be interested in is Active Pause which lets lets you pause the game.
It's on my list to try later.

[Carpet_pissr]

I think I’ll wait for an initial patch to tighten things up a bit before I get further.

Love the comment that someone made above about staying up all night playing, and that it seems like a game they will play for years. Hope it’s got that staying power like JA2 - that would be amazing.

[Archinerd]

I failed my first campaign last night. I ran out of money and couldn't even afford the boat ride to the mainland.
I may need to take the difficulty down a notch (I was playing on hard). I had one particularly gruesome firefight early on, which required me to waste a bunch of time healing. After that, one of my mercs decided not to renew with me and I spent more than I should have on his replacement.

[Blackhawk]

Oops, nevermind.

[jztemple2]

Well, this was dumb. I split my squad of six into two three man squads. One I left at the port to heal the three mercs it has, while I sent the other one by boat to the coast to beat up a little enemy unit and capture a diamond supply. Trouble is, that squad I sent down the coast can't return to the port by water, since it is not sitting on a port, and it can't go overland since there is a strong enemy unit north of it . I'll have to wait till my three wounded mercs heal... or hire three more mercs and land them with the southern squad so it will be beefed up and be able to get home. Or I can try to sneak the southern squad past that strong enemy squad.

So, lesson learned. Don't forget, before sending a squad by boat, figure out how you are going to get it out of there!

[Max Peck]

I haven't tried it, but I think sneaking past them should be viable. If you stay in stealth and avoid contact, it should be possible to skirt the edge of the sector map and retreat from the edge bordering on the sector you to which you need to travel.

[jztemple2]

I haven't tried it, but I think sneaking past them should be viable. If you stay in stealth and avoid contact, it should be possible to skirt the edge of the sector map and retreat from the edge bordering on the sector you to which you need to travel.

I did that because it was a night map (thankfully!) although the map was pretty small and the bad guys were wandering around. One was even walking around holding a flare...


OK, with 137K of cash and a positive income of 7K per day I'm ready to hire a new squad, probably starting off with a four person one. Which qualities do I want? I want someone with high leadership to train militia and someone with high wisdom for those times when it helps, like scouting. And I need at least someone with medical expertise. And someone mechanical to pick locks. Any other stats I should make sure I have in a small squad? I'm intending this one to do my militia training and some scouting and the occasional location defence.

[jztemple2]

Using the I.M.P. browser, created my own merc...

[Scoop20906]

I just want to shoutout Livewire who covers alot of bases but is useless in a fight. She can lockpick and hack. She also shows the location of all enemies on a map if the location has intel. She is a good medic in a pinch and keeps all my equipment in good shape. I'm doing my best to get her marksman skill and agility improved because bringing her along solves so many little problems.

[Max Peck]

I think the thing I want most to see in a mod is the ability to put special crafting materials into the squad stash instead of being forced to carry them in the limited backpack space. I suspect that it is intended to pressure you into using them instead of hoarding them until you have better weapons, but it's still a pain in the butt, because I'm gonna be a packrat hoarder no matter what.

One day later...

Steam Workshop: Crafting items to Squad bag

[Tampa_Gamer]

One day later...
Steam Workshop: Crafting items to Squad bag

Thanks, I will certainly be using that. I just checked as well and with 43 mods already posted in less than a few days (and prior to the release of the promised modding tools) I am cautiously optimistic that the JA2 community modders will now focus on this platform one moving forward. They have already recognized and tried to "solve" many of the complaints discussed in this thread (e.g. broader squad bag, better/higher camera angles, ammo/lot drops, ability to have several custom MERCs (e.g. Wasteland), more descriptive to hit modifiers and starting to fix some of the weapon balance oddities (e.g. vanilla burst fire is very nerfed at the moment).

[Carpet_pissr]

I think it's interesting how it seems like "the community" (of JA players maybe?) immediately jumps to "what do you want to see in a mod?" instead of "what do you want to see in the first patch?" I'm not sure I've seen such a strong sense of "how can we fix this?" vs "you devs need to fix this" in other titles (certainly not this quickly). I guess part of it is because the various versions of JA2 were so...amazing and important in keeping JA2 alive for so many years after release. I assume a lot of the players and community that were active with 1.13, Straciatella, etc are active on the JA3 scene as well.

I played my existing squad again last night, intentionally "to death" to see what would happen mostly, but also because I knew I wanted to restart whenever the first patch comes out. I have to say, it's growing on me. It still doesn't feel a lot like JA, primarily due to the combat being completely different, which is the heart of the series IMO, but that's also "OK".

After a few more hours playing I REALLY want a better indicator about hitting than my mercs' OCCASIONAL comments about how good or not the shot is. I have not yet implemented the % shot mod, but I might. I think a great solution that would not require a spread sheet, on the nose option like a floating %, would be to just increase the comments from the mercs when they are about to shoot. If they just gave me MORE feedback, I think that would be great. "Not sure I can make this!" is enough to make me second guess taking that shot. I get that maybe that's too hand holdy for some (sometimes you do have to take blind shots with no idea if you will hit - natural), but it's not as extreme as actual to hit numbers showing up, and this seems to be a common complaint.

I definitely see the potential for some great battle "stories" just like in JA2, so that makes me happy. It also feels like it's more on rails than JA2 sometimes, but it's not as bad as it first seemed. Lots of options still to flank, get up high, low, hide (maybe more options here), etc.

Finally, I hope they clean up the shooting mechanic UI a bit...it's VERY fiddly (to me), and not intuitive at all. I don't have 3000 hours in the new X-Coms, so I'm sure that's part of it, but it feels overly picky/confusing compared to both the new X-Coms and Wasteland shooting mechanics (and not better).

[Madmarcus]

I just want to shoutout Livewire who covers alot of bases but is useless in a fight.

With a silenced rifle I find that she can do OK. Of course my entire group is a little light on marksmanship so perhaps her lack of skill simply doesn't stand out as much on my team.

[Max Peck]

There's also at least one mod already that sits somewhere in the middle ground between the current aiming feedback and simply displaying the percentages.

Descriptive Chance to hit

There's also a mod now that implements an active pause. It sounds like it allows you to pause and queue up commands for ambushes, but I haven't tried it out myself.

Active Pause!

[Blackhawk]

Bah, I think I am going to restart. I'm not backed into a corner, but I'm also aware that my early game wasn't great, and that I'll pay for it later. Besides, I want to take a completely different approach with my IMP merc to make up for the low starting stats.

[coopasonic]

After a story beat caused me (changed this to add spoiler, in case you are sensitive. the comment isn't specific but it may too much for some):

Spoiler:

to lose control of everything, possibly related to my lack of effective militia, I've recovered somewhat and my income is much higher (close to 10k/day surplus), which makes me wonder what surprise they are saving for me. I guess I could use that money to set up a second squad to train militia and assist on defense. I think I'll set up a backup save and go that route.

These games are much easier the second time.

[coopasonic]

Current Team:
Raven - Ace Sniper, but only has AP for one shot per turn
Nails - explosives guy with sad marksmanship and mobility
Dr Q - Medic with terrible marksmanship
Vicki - Mechanic with ok marksmanship
Mouse - backup medic with decent marksmanship
Coop - Melee Stealth

I got rid of Steroid because Fox wouldn't work with him and I was tired of his comments and then hired Dr Q instead of Fox anyway.

Hiring a team of cheap specialists with ok marksmanship may not have been the best plan. I love Raven and Mouse. The others... well, they are loyal... except for Nails who made me up his pay last time I re-upped him. It may be time to find a replacement for him. It shouldn't be hard.

[Blackhawk]

Starting a beginner tips collection to point people to. Feel free to reply if you have others to add (or correct.)

/update - gotta run for a bit. Back later for more.

• General: At the beginning, make sure you go to I.M.P. Web in your (in-game) browser and make a custom merc. You'll have to pay a one-time fee, but since this is 'you', you won't have to pay them a contract fee. I'd suggest creating them last to fill in any skill gaps in your starting party.
• General: The game is tough. Normal is a significant challenge at time.
• General: If it's feeling too hard, there is a 'Forgiving Mode' option that will ease things up a bit by giving you a small income and speeding up healing. It can be toggled off and on at will if you're starting to feel the pinch and need a little breathing room.
• General: The Alt key (by default) toggles highlights on objects you can loot/interact with. It can also be set to only show the highlights while held. You can tell if it is on because your unselected mercs will have bars over their heads.
• General: Things to hold on to: Tiny diamonds, bags of local currency, and ancient artifacts. The first has two uses, the latter two each have one use (I haven't actually confirmed the bit about the artifacts myself.)
• General: Tiny Diamonds very minor spoiler:
  Spoiler:

  There is someone who will pay a much higher price than the 'cash in' value, and there is someone who will trade them for 'loot boxes', some of which are fantastic (and some of which are useless - or empty.)
• General: Take the time to explore everywhere. Highlighting loot is very quick, and the maps aren't massive, but collecting the goodies is a Big Deal (TM)
• General: Likewise, talk to everyone that doesn't have a generic name (visible when object highlights are enabled) like 'Villager' or 'Miner.'
• General: If you want to make sure a merc with the right skill interacts with something, make sure they're the only one suspected. Unlike most RPGs, it seems to send the nearest character to do something, not the most qualified. (This is just an observation at this point - I can't be 100% sure how it works.)
• General: Don't avoid minefields! Take a high wisdom character and move them around, either a couple of steps at a time, or in a crouch to slow them down. They should detect the mines. You then have options. You can send in your explosives specialist and have them dismantle them all. It gives a ton of parts, which are important. At the same time, some minefields can actually be useful when enemies attack through them. Take that into account before deciding when to scrap the mines. A good hybrid approach is to take a few minutes to discover the mines' locations, but leave them there until everything else is done and you're ready to leave the zone, just in case there is a fight. Bonus: Barry, the cheapest merc, has very high stats in both explosives and wisdom.
• General:Sometimes you find a lootable container that's trapped, and it isn't obvious what you should do about it. There's a tell, though. If it says "Disarm", it's a bomb (use a character with high Explosives.) If it says "Disable", it's a mechanical trap (use a character with high Mechanical.)
• General:You can shoot mines. Both kinds, but shooting the explodey kind is more effective than shooting the diggy kind.
• General:If an enemy shows 'Near Death', a torso shot will usually take them out, and is much easier to hit than a limb or head.
• General:When targeting an enemy, one or more of several icons may appear next to each target location names. A vest means that location is armored. A vest with a red slash means that it's armored, but will be bypassed. A wall indicates that it's physically behind cover. A blue head means that there is a friendly between you and the target, and you're likely to hit them instead.
• General: Overwatch. Use it. It's how you ambush, and it's how you coordinate shots. In combat, Overwatch is often a more efficient use of AP than manually firing.
• ----------------------------------------------------------
• Team Comp/Loadout: Early on, have weapons in a variety of calibers. Giving every merc a 7.62mm weapon means that you will run out of 7.62 very, very quickly.
• Team Comp/Loadout: Some excellent starting mercs: Barry (for his explosives and free shaped charges), Fox (for her medical and great perks),
• Team Comp/Loadout: You absolutely want someone to cover each of the basic skills with high proficiency: Explosives (for making and preventing big boom, situationally), Mechanical (for repairs, weapon modding, scrapping), Medical (for medicry.) You likely also want backups with decent skills for at least Medical, and Explosives if you want anyone other than your bomb tech to be throwing grenades.
• Team Comp/Loadout: It's a good idea to make sure that all of the stats are covered, but don't leave home without a character with high Strength, and one with high Wisdom. They come up a lot (Wisdom more than Strength.)
• Team Comp/Loadout: Leadership controls the training of militia, which is a must, even early on. You should have at least one starter character with a decent Leadership (and note that none of the Recruit level mercs have much - Kalyna is just so-so.)
• Team Comp/Loadout: When you use the 'Contact' button, make sure you listen to their voice. Make sure you're willing to hear it a lot (my nerves vibrated like bass strings every time I heard Livewire speak.)
• Team Comp/Loadout: Due to the action economy (more actions = more power), a larger team of cheap mercs can be more effective than a small team of expensive mercs.
• Team Comp/Loadout: There are several different hireable characters with a high Medical skill, but note that the medical perks are tied to Wisdom, not Medicine, and the top one takes a Wisdom of 90 (also note that Wisdom is the hardest skill in the game to improve, as it cannot be trained.)
• Team Comp/Loadout: The Inspiring Strike perk, when given to a sniper, can be very, very powerful.
• ----------------------------------------------------------
• Custom merc: Your custom merc doesn't have the highest starting stats in the game. In fact, you can't even come close to the lowest-priced hireable mercs. I have a feeling that this is because they expect you to keep your custom merc through the entire campaign rather than rotating them in and out (ie - they'll have more of a chance to grow.)
• Custom merc: High Agility helps with AP and movement (which is a big deal), and Wisdom helps with learning new things (which you're going to need to do.)
• Custom merc: Ability scores give access to perks at multiples of 10 (70, 80, and 90.) Strength gives one inventory slot per 10 (so a 50 Strength merc has 5, and an 80 Strength merc has 8.) That means that it isn't the best idea to have starter stats a couple of points below or above a stat (IE - 70 is great, but 68 and 71 are wasted opportunities.)
• Custom merc: Skills can be increased by reading magazines, by field experience (shoot people to get better at shooting people), and through direct training (merc A trains merc B in a skill.) Training is the primary way of increasing your abilities.
• Custom merc: The lower your skill, the bigger the boost from training, and the higher the skill the lower the boost. That means that that starting skill points used for high numbers are far more valuable than those used for low numbers. I'd suggest either taking any particular skill at a high level, or taking it at 0. Starting at 0 means that you can get it to 20+ after just a couple of training sessions (I gained 20 points in the first session), while a high-level skill will be much, much slower to raise. Instead of putting 25 points each in Explosives, Mechanical, Medical, and Marksmanship, you'd be better off putting all of those points into one (with points left over.)
• Custom merc: Leadership is a rare trait among hireable mercs, but be aware that it mostly just affects training time.
• Custom merc: [Cheese warning] I'm not advocating this, but I've heard of people making their custom merc, then hiring one other low-priced merc with a good skill or two, and just doing training session after training session at the beginning of the game. Supposedly you can make your free merc very, very powerful before you start to have any money issues.
• ----------------------------------------------------------
• Money: Three is a good number of starting mercs (plus your custom, so four total.) The higher skilled mercs cost more, and will run you out of cash much more quickly, but can also help you push further and faster, getting you more money. Just keep in mind that the more expensive your team, the faster you're going to have to push to secure a regular income.
• Money: At the beginning, if you like the mercs you're hiring, hire them for two weeks (there's a slider on the 'contact' window.) The longer the contract, the bigger the discount you get (Hiring Barry 1 day at a time for two weeks would cost close to $20,000, hiring him twice for one week would cost $6k, and hiring him for two weeks up front costs less than $5k.)
• Money: At the beginning, don't screw around too long. You want to finish the starter island, get to the main island, and get control of a diamond mine ASAP to ensure a good cash flow. You can stay on the starter island for a bit of training (yourself and the militia), but don't overdo it unless you have a very, very low-cost team (you cheeser, you.)
• Money: Be very careful when you find vendors. You buy by clicking on the table. It has its own icon, so make sure you pay attention, or you could end up accidentally spending a thousand bucks on throwing knives.
  
  
  Contributors:
  
  Blackhawk
  Madmarcus
  Brian
  Carpet_pissr

[$iljanus]

I think the thing I want most to see in a mod is the ability to put special crafting materials into the squad stash instead of being forced to carry them in the limited backpack space. I suspect that it is intended to pressure you into using them instead of hoarding them until you have better weapons, but it's still a pain in the butt, because I'm gonna be a packrat hoarder no matter what.

One day later...

Steam Workshop: Crafting items to Squad bag

Yes! All my crafting materials were dumped in a sector stash because I ran out of space. Unfortunately I now have to take this roundabout way to get to my stash which involves capturing a port and of course the time taken traveling is just wasted time eating away at the days on your merc’s contracts. The game is hard enough without having to “fight” the inventory and I wish they would just have universally accessible stashes. Or I would accept paying smugglers to transport items from other stashes and it would take X number of days depending on the distance.

Edit: After reading Blackhawk’s extensive and appreciated write up I might start over yet again because I found an item of antiquity and would have held on to it longer but I was running out of space.

[stimpy]

I kinda sorta got this running after updating my video card driver, but it still crashes now and then.
I'm putting it on the shelf until a proper patch and then I'll see what mods they dont include that I'll want to add from the workshop.

[Madmarcus]

The only thing I'd add is that I've found a 5 or 6 man team of really cheap mercs is better than a 4 man team due tot he action economy. Especially since Buns is both fairly cheap and a good marksmanship trainer.

[Brian]

I might start over yet again because I found an item of antiquity and would have held on to it longer but I was running out of space.

Dang it, me too and for the same reason.
Also, if you got that antiquity in the same sector I'm thinking of, there are at least two antiquities there.

[Scoop20906]

Even though Im having a good run with my current squad I think I am going to restart with after all things I have learned so far. I busted my IMP merc's stats and don't like the way they are playing and I am missing a couple import needs on my squad. I also lost a whole squad of militia because I didn't train enough and was too far away and tired to get back to stop the assault squad.

Question:

Spoiler:

I know in the first tutorial town you can set up a machine gun emplacement for the Militia. Is that possible at the mines as well?

I'm really enjoying this game and all the stats and history for each merc. The devs really pulled this off.

[Baroquen]

Thanks for the "tips" post Blackhawk. It'll come in handy when I make a run at this.

I was able to play using the controller (mouse and keyboard lagged/stuttered so much they were completely unusable - but a rare situation so I doubt it'll get fixed), but unlike other games, I'm not comfortable with it. Combine that with being a little overwhelmed with the strategic options and I've dragged my feet on playing. (I remember feeling the same way about the old JA games, so yeah). Anyway, the tips will be a big help when I try this "for real". Think I'll wait a bit to finish up some other games, and let the patches/mods work their magic first.

[jztemple2]

Thanks for the "tips" post Blackhawk. It'll come in handy when I make a run at this.

Me too on this, thanks Blackhawk

Oddly, I have not desire to restart the game like a lot of you. It's like reading a novel, I don't want to go back and re-read what I've already seen.

My second team is about to face its first acid test, trying to intercept a diamond shipment. I have only five members because I got all concerned about spending a lot for a sixth member, but now I think I'm going to regret it

[Carpet_pissr]

Thanks for the "tips" post Blackhawk. It'll come in handy when I make a run at this.

Me too on this, thanks Blackhawk

Oddly, I have not desire to restart the game like a lot of you. It's like reading a novel, I don't want to go back and re-read what I've already seen.

My second team is about to face its first acid test, trying to intercept a diamond shipment. I have only five members because I got all concerned about spending a lot for a sixth member, but now I think I'm going to regret it

One of the reasons that people have continued to play JA2 for decades is due to its deep replayability. No two battles are going to be the same, and there are (at least were, in JA2) so many different potential approaches to each encounter.

Sprinkle in a constantly changing roster of characters, personalities, and weapons and you have a pretty great replayability recipe.

[jztemple2]

I did an auto-resolve for my diamond intercept , everyone survived but most were wounded. I did add a six member to the team, a medic.

By the way, Barry is awesome . Those shaped charges he generates are a game changer, I killed all five of the bad guys this way.


It is most important to make sure that Barry has a free slot in his inventory in which to put the generated shaped charges in case he runs out. I've lost a couple of auto-gen cycles because I wasn't paying attention

[Blackhawk]

This game would make for a fun film. Well, if we lived in a world with writers and actors, that it.

[stimpy]

F this game until they tweak it.
Enemies can hit my team from almost anywhere on the map, no matter if they're prone and in the grass behind a boulder half a map away.
It's ridiculous. I can deal with a certain amount of RNG, but cmon.
I went back and tried some of the tactics I read about to supposedly help minimize this, but nothings changed.

[coopasonic]

Enemies can hit my team from almost anywhere on the map, no matter if they're prone and in the grass behind a boulder half a map away.

35 hours into the game and that is not my experience at all. Lucky shots happen but are pretty uncommon outside of visual range and particularly so for prone targets. I haven't seen any signs of unfair advantages for the enemies.

I think the enemy has a better idea of what cover can be destroyed but for the most part, it is logical and I think it may be displayed in the cover icon, like if there are cracks in the shield.

[stimpy]

I'm really not nitpicking.
I was looking forward to this game.
But I watched a video and the guy had Mouse sneaking around practically right in front of the enemy and they didnt notice her.
I started over and added her to my roster.
Get to the first map.....she gets notice every time I try and sneak her into position.
I did exactly what the guy in the video was doing.
I really must be missing something.....

[Smoove_B]

Is it possible they tweaked the difficulty? If you just launch the game with the default settings, I think it's pretty hard - like much harder than I would have expected. I spent like a half hour when I first fired it up last week looking at all the individual difficulty tweaks - there's quite a few