The Resistance: Avalon (Game Over)

[stessier]

I'm guessing we're waiting for Chaos to get off work. <insert Jeopardy theme here>

[Chaosraven]

I will indeed scan  REMUS WEST 
 


(and actually I have Jury Duty)

[El Guapo]

(and actually I have Jury Duty)

Spoiler:

They're guilty.

[Moliere]

(and actually I have Jury Duty)

Spoiler:

They're guilty.

Hand out jury nullification pamphlets to your fellow jury members. Judges and lawyers love an activist jury.

[El Guapo]

(and actually I have Jury Duty)

Spoiler:

They're guilty.

Hand out jury nullification pamphlets to your fellow jury members. Judges and lawyers love an antichrist activist jury.

This is how I first read your post.

[Holman]

(and actually I have Jury Duty)

Spoiler:

They're guilty.

You say that without even scanning them?

[Grundbegriff]

I will indeed scan  REMUS WEST 
 

The Lady of the Lake has learned the alignment (Good||Evil) of Remus West.
Remus West is now the Lady of the Lake.

This ends Quest #3. But which way must we go to find the Staff of Human Resources? Back and to the left.

The next Leader is Isgrimnur. Please propose a Questing Party of Five members.

Quest #4 will fail only if at least two party members choose to fail.

[Isgrimnur]

I will await information for other parties.

[Remus West]

I will await information for other parties.

I wouldn't put Chaosraven, El Guapo, or Holman in any party. Include me or not as you think best.

[Chaosraven]

Ok, I wasn't expecting Remus to be GOOD.

[Isgrimnur]

So should I just punt, add Remus to the current party, and hope it's not game over? I can politic with that and kick the can down to my successor to ferret out the rat in our party.

[Holman]

I will await information for other parties.

I wouldn't put Chaosraven, El Guapo, or Holman in any party. Include me or not as you think best.

I asked before, and you still haven't explained why stessier and RMC (also in Quest 2) get a pass from you.

[El Guapo]

Interesting (and good to know).

Isgrimnur, I can't see any reason for you not to include yourself. If you're good, then obviously you know you're good and should be included. If you're evil, you're going to include yourself for that reason. I would respectfully request that you not include yourself if you are evil, though.

So the ideal party assuming that is: Isgrimnur, me, Chaosraven, Remus, and ... not sure the last person, but Scoop seems the least suspicious to me of the rest at the moment (and even if he's evil, as long as you are good that party can't fail as we need two fail votes to fail Quest #40.

That assumes, of course, that you believe me. If not, I would mainly stay away from the stessier / RMC / Holman group. If you *really* need to pick someone out of that, I would say my best guess is that stessier is the lone good guy among them. Though of course I don't know why I'm making suggestions premised on the contingency that you don't believe me, as in that scenario you've already stopped listening.

[Moliere]

Ok, I wasn't expecting Remus to be GOOD.

ElG says Chaos is Good.
Chaos says RW is Good.

Do we really have a chain of Good people finding only other Good people or is there an Evil mixed in?

[Chaosraven]

So should I just punt, add Remus to the current party, and hope it's not game over? I can politic with that and kick the can down to my successor to ferret out the rat in our party.

Remus is GOOD.

Who's the suggested party?

[Chaosraven]

Ok, I wasn't expecting Remus to be GOOD.

ElG says Chaos is Good.
Chaos says RW is Good.

Do we really have a chain of Good people finding only other Good people or is there an Evil mixed in?

I cannot attest to El Gs alignment.

[Chaosraven]

Interesting (and good to know).

Isgrimnur, I can't see any reason for you not to include yourself. If you're good, then obviously you know you're good and should be included. If you're evil, you're going to include yourself for that reason. I would respectfully request that you not include yourself if you are evil, though.

So the ideal party assuming that is: Isgrimnur, me, Chaosraven, Remus, and ... not sure the last person, but Scoop seems the least suspicious to me of the rest at the moment (and even if he's evil, as long as you are good that party can't fail as we need two fail votes to fail Quest #40.

That assumes, of course, that you believe me. If not, I would mainly stay away from the stessier / RMC / Holman group. If you *really* need to pick someone out of that, I would say my best guess is that stessier is the lone good guy among them. Though of course I don't know why I'm making suggestions premised on the contingency that you don't believe me, as in that scenario you've already stopped listening.

And before the scan I would have said stessier is the more likely evil.
But with Remus out of it, I am second guessing my suspicion of stessier.

We need a Mastermind Chart of what's happened before we do anything rash.

[Isgrimnur]

The members of Team Failure Two, Electric Boogaloo, were: Isgrimnur, Moliere , bb2112, and Remus West.

The choice counts were:
FAILURE: 1
SUCCESS: 3

My current plan is to add one member to this one. We had one failure. If I can keep it at one failure by adding a good member, then we go to sudden death, and Moliere or subsequent party creator needs to figure out who the traitor is amongst the above.

At the end of the day, it's up to everyone to vote on it.

Official Proposed Party
Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

One failure is as good as a success, and I'm trusting our scanners. If we have one failure vote, Moliere remains under suspicion, and is the next party gatherer. bb2112 would be the other under suspicion.

[Grundbegriff]

Should I regard that as final, as if you had used the accuse tag? Or do you just mean officially under discussion?

[Isgrimnur]

Leave it for discussion. I'll confirm or modify tomorrow.

[Grundbegriff]

Thanks for clarifying.

[stessier]

Official Proposed Party
Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

Besides including me, which I understand why one wouldn't, I can't think of any better options.

[bb2112]

I am very surprised that CR came back with a good verdict on RW.

The members of Team Failure Two, Electric Boogaloo, were: Isgrimnur, Moliere , bb2112, and Remus West.

The choice counts were:
FAILURE: 1
SUCCESS: 3

My current plan is to add one member to this one. We had one failure. If I can keep it at one failure by adding a good member, then we go to sudden death, and Moliere or subsequent party creator needs to figure out who the traitor is amongst the above.

At the end of the day, it's up to everyone to vote on it.

Official Proposed Party
Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

One failure is as good as a success, and I'm trusting our scanners. If we have one failure vote, Moliere remains under suspicion, and is the next party gatherer. bb2112 would be the other under suspicion.

I really can't think of a better plan. Part of me wants to suggest you switch out either you or Moliere with El Guapo and go all in on with the Ladies, but that could be very good, or game endingly bad. We can't afford the miss. I have no idea what we are going to do if we manage to pass this quest. We still have at least one bad guy even amongst this group and have to figure out a way to field 5 untainted party members out of a field of 10.

The other thing that is nagging at me, is what if all the Ladies have been bad. El Guapo really didn't take any suggestions on who to scan. He could have just passed it off to a bad player in CR, then CR scanned RW. There was some discussion with CR as Lady, but I still believe the better scan would have been Stess. And yes, I get that CR could be bad and looking to gain cred by proclaiming RW good if RW really is good. There are not enough rounds in this game to get a good feel of what is going on.

[Grundbegriff]

There are not enough rounds in this game to get a good feel of what is going on.

So... it's accurately modeling Camelot!

[Remus West]

I will await information for other parties.

I wouldn't put Chaosraven, El Guapo, or Holman in any party. Include me or not as you think best.

I asked before, and you still haven't explained why stessier and RMC (also in Quest 2) get a pass from you.

Nobody has gotten a pass from me. I simply distrust some (El Guapo, Chaosraven, and You) more than others.

[RMC]

Hey why am I labeled bad? I liked everything Remus has said, and if he is good, as we are assuming, then I was on the side of good all along.

I added my self to a party and 2 bad guys showed up. Why would I have added myself and then basically reveled myself as evil? I would have been better to let the quest pass, and then be labeled 'good'.

<shrug> Anyway, I am off to a day of traveling to the main hospital so will be silent for the rest of the afternoon.

[Remus West]

The members of Team Failure Two, Electric Boogaloo, were: Isgrimnur, Moliere , bb2112, and Remus West.

The choice counts were:
FAILURE: 1
SUCCESS: 3

My current plan is to add one member to this one. We had one failure. If I can keep it at one failure by adding a good member, then we go to sudden death, and Moliere or subsequent party creator needs to figure out who the traitor is amongst the above.

At the end of the day, it's up to everyone to vote on it.

Official Proposed Party
Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

One failure is as good as a success, and I'm trusting our scanners. If we have one failure vote, Moliere remains under suspicion, and is the next party gatherer. bb2112 would be the other under suspicion.

I will not vote to accept a party containing Chaosraven. His statement that I am good is wonderful and all but I still think he is Evil and simply trying to gain some credit for the last important questing group. I'd put Scoop there instead. His claims of being good seem to be the most genuine to me.

[Isgrimnur]

Team 2 had at least two evil.
stessier
RMC
Holman
El Guapo

Team three had at least one evil
Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West

Not on those teams:
Chaosraven
Scoop20906

If we assume that none of the evils hid on those votes, regardless of picking Group Two or None, I have have a 50% chance of picking good/evil. If we assume that at least one evil hid, then I should add either CR or Scoop, as both would be good.

[Isgrimnur]

If we suspect Remus of dissembling, that would mean ElG-CR-RW-Scoop would be the list of evils, as it would spike the 4th mission for failure and an evil win.

If we trust that

[bb2112]

RW is pushing to oust CR, even after CR's scan says he is good. RW would not try to throw CR off the team if both were on team evil, especially since RW would be very happy to have CR with him on the quest if that were the case. If CR were good and RW evil, CR would not have declared RW good. Based on this, I feel pretty good about RW.

My initial thoughts were El G and CR are bad. I have flipped back and forth on this repeatedly, but I really didn't like how CR was picked for the scan. It felt more like El G was directing it instead of the village forcing the scan choice. A villager would have taken more of a vote, an evil would have tried to direct. This is just gut feeling.

[bb2112]

Based on this, I feel pretty good about RW.

That being said, I am still unclear on why he feels so strongly about Holman and CR.

RW, can you go over your thoughts about why you believe both Holman and CR are evil again?

[Isgrimnur]

Why would CR throw the scan to a good member? If evil were to scan a good, why not lie about it to ensure one more good member is out of the selection pool permanently?

If Remus gets CR thrown off and replaced with someone else, and they vote to pass it, Remus becomes more trusted, and can spike the final mission.

[bb2112]

If we suspect Remus of dissembling, that would mean ElG-CR-RW-Scoop would be the list of evils, as it would spike the 4th mission for failure and an evil win.

If we trust that

Not the case. If that were the list of evils, RW would have been happy to let the group you are suggesting fly. RW and CR would have spiked the quest and it would have been game over. Either RW and CR are both good, or CR is evil and RW is good. I can't see any other middle ground based on CR's scan.

[bb2112]

Why would CR throw the scan to a good member? If evil were to scan a good, why not lie about it to ensure one more good member is out of the selection pool permanently?

If Remus gets CR thrown off and replaced with someone else, and they vote to pass it, Remus becomes more trusted, and can spike the final mission.

As RW suggested, for CR to gain cred. They only need to kill one of the next 2 missions. If the bad guy from your list is paired with CR (and CR is evil) then it is a win for the bad guys. If CR doesn't get picked this time, maybe he can weasel his way onto the last vote and spike that one. It is not a bad play for an endgame scenario.

[El Guapo]

I have flipped back and forth on this repeatedly, but I really didn't like how CR was picked for the scan. It felt more like El G was directing it instead of the village forcing the scan choice. A villager would have taken more of a vote, an evil would have tried to direct. This is just gut feeling.

FWIW again I did want input, and I did discuss it with the only person who cared to share thoughts on the scan choice (stessier). A full day had passed since the scan turn started and I wasn't sure that I was going to get any more input. You can take that for what it's worth, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm fine with Isgrimnur's proposed team. As I said as long as we add someone who is good to the current team then we should be good, and Chaosraven / Remus / myself are the only people who I can be certain are good (and Remus was already on the Quest #3 team).

[El Guapo]

Hey why am I labeled bad? I liked everything Remus has said, and if he is good, as we are assuming, then I was on the side of good all along.

I added my self to a party and 2 bad guys showed up. Why would I have added myself and then basically reveled myself as evil? I would have been better to let the quest pass, and then be labeled 'good'.

Not really. Team Evil couldn't really risk failing Quest #2 and falling behind 2-0 (especially with a "2 fail votes required" Quest 4 still ahead). Even if the optics of voting to fail were bad for you, you would (if you're evil) very likely have voted to fail anyway, as the consequences of Quest #2 succeeding would outweigh the risks of you looking bad.

Besides, even if Evil RMC voted to succeed and Evil Teammate TBD (but probably Holman) voted to fail, which would have been ideal for you, you wouldn't have escaped suspicion in that scenario (you wouldn't automatically have been labeled 'good').

[bb2112]

I have flipped back and forth on this repeatedly, but I really didn't like how CR was picked for the scan. It felt more like El G was directing it instead of the village forcing the scan choice. A villager would have taken more of a vote, an evil would have tried to direct. This is just gut feeling.

FWIW again I did want input, and I did discuss it with the only person who cared to share thoughts on the scan choice (stessier). A full day had passed since the scan turn started and I wasn't sure that I was going to get any more input. You can take that for what it's worth, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm fine with Isgrimnur's proposed team. As I said as long as we add someone who is good to the current team then we should be good, and Chaosraven / Remus / myself are the only people who I can be certain are good (and Remus was already on the Quest #3 team).

I just went back and reread it. I get what you are saying. It was just that your 24 hour span was Good Friday and there were a lot of people AFK. I know we are trying for more of a faster paced game, but it was a holiday and the only person making a suggestion was Stess. Probably one of the few that were on during that time period. And even then you ignored his suggestion of scanning Holman and went your own way anyway.

I am putting together some thoughts. Bear with me, it probably wont be until this afternoon before I can it out.

[El Guapo]

I have flipped back and forth on this repeatedly, but I really didn't like how CR was picked for the scan. It felt more like El G was directing it instead of the village forcing the scan choice. A villager would have taken more of a vote, an evil would have tried to direct. This is just gut feeling.

FWIW again I did want input, and I did discuss it with the only person who cared to share thoughts on the scan choice (stessier). A full day had passed since the scan turn started and I wasn't sure that I was going to get any more input. You can take that for what it's worth, I suppose.

Anyway, I'm fine with Isgrimnur's proposed team. As I said as long as we add someone who is good to the current team then we should be good, and Chaosraven / Remus / myself are the only people who I can be certain are good (and Remus was already on the Quest #3 team).

I just went back and reread it. I get what you are saying. It was just that your 24 hour span was Good Friday and there were a lot of people AFK. I know we are trying for more of a faster paced game, but it was a holiday and the only person making a suggestion was Stess. Probably one of the few that were on during that time period. And even then you ignored his suggestion of scanning Holman and went your own way anyway.

I am putting together some thoughts. Bear with me, it probably wont be until this afternoon before I can it out.

Ahhhh, that's helpful to know actually - I'm Jewish, so I was like "why aren't more people on??"

FWIW I didn't ignore Stessier's suggestion of Holman (and I did give Holman significant consideration as a scan choice), I just didn't find his reasoning persuasive (and took some comfort that he agreed that Chaosraven was a reasonable alternative).

[Isgrimnur]

 Official Proposed Party 
 

Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

[Grundbegriff]

 Official Proposed Party 
 

Isgrimnur
Moliere
bb2112
Remus West
Chaosraven

Is that official official? Or just another topic for consideration?