Octopus Overlords

FWIW, a mechanical keyboard switch is generally good for 50 million actuations, and probably well beyond that. The smaller switches are generally rated for 5 million clicks.

I think logitech uses the China made Omron switches, but Kailh seems to be the current gold standard, unless you can find Cherry original microswitches.

Kasey Chang wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 9:54 pm FWIW, a mechanical keyboard switch is generally good for 50 million actuations, and probably well beyond that. The smaller switches are generally rated for 5 million clicks.

I think logitech uses the China made Omron switches, but Kailh seems to be the current gold standard, unless you can find Cherry original microswitches.

Strangely none of my gaming mice last more than 5 million clicks before the sticky or double click issues. Most last less than a year without heavy gaming usage. So nowhere near 5 million clicks.

Maybe the 50 million clicks or 5 million clicks are rating for the total failure of the switches? 5-50 million clicks before the switches stop working? But double click or sticky problem can occur much earlier and not counted as failing for their durability rating?

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Fri Feb 17, 2023 2:30 pm They do (generally) have the better quality switches, and that isn't just durability. The problem, though, as I said, is that a gamer clicks an incredible amount of times. Three years seems like a good run for a mouse. Now go see how many other basic mechanical devices around the house hold up after six million activations. That's like flipping your light switch a dozen times a day for 228 years.

Given that there's some degree of imperfection in any manufactured device (even if just imperfections in the materials), some mice aren't going to make it to that three year mark. Some are going to die in six months or a year. And some mice will last far longer than three years. And some mice are Razer.

When it comes down to it, it's going to be a limitation of mice until a completely different technology for registering clicks is implemented.

And the completely different technology is available now. That was why I posted. I want to know if that means, the new technology solve the problem.

Optical switches use light sensor to register click. The button click either cut off light or let the light through to the sensor.

Optical mechanical switches use light sensor but add some mechanical parts to make it feel like using mechanical switches.

i can say the newer "Amazon Basics" mice are complete garbage. new office uses these as default/commodity peripherals and not only do they feel very cheap, they are incredibly tiny and low profile. the are about half the length of my hand - extremely uncomfortable to hold. glad i can shove this back into the supply closet as i just got my Kensington trackball order in.

I've had a Logitech mouse for 23 months (I checked my order history) and over the last 24 hours the left mouse button (i.e. what you're using most of the time) has become completely unreliable. Found the mouse I was using prior to the Logitech to remember why I stopped using it - scroll wheel is jumpy.

23 months feels...short. And yes, I did everything short of disassembly and re-soldering connections to try and make it work. New mouse is en route. They just don't build them like they used to, eh?

I find that a good cleaning usually works. LMB and RMB often get buildup underneath.

What model was it?

Logitech G203 Wired Gaming Mouse

According to the internets, Logitech mice are notorious for having a double-click issue and after doing everything (cleaning, air canister, breathing into space to discharge potential static electricity, etc...) I'm left to conclude it is the contact/wiring issue that typically fails. I can't really complain; I paid $20 for it. While I didn't suspect it would last forever, 23 months feels short. It worked great...right up until it didn't.

I use the same mouse on my laptop. These days? 23 months doesn't feel too bad for a $20 mouse. And lots of mice have the clicker problem - it was at the heart of my struggles with Razer. Most of the Logitech mice I've had die were because of middle-click issues.

Maybe you're just using it wrong.

Just use the keyboard.......The keyboard. How quaint.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:44 pm

Logitech G203 Wired Gaming Mouse

According to the internets, Logitech mice are notorious for having a double-click issue and after doing everything (cleaning, air canister, breathing into space to discharge potential static electricity, etc...) I'm left to conclude it is the contact/wiring issue that typically fails. I can't really complain; I paid $20 for it. While I didn't suspect it would last forever, 23 months feels short. It worked great...right up until it didn't.

I bought the ones with optical switches a year ago, so far it doesn't have double click issue.

As for double click issue, I had bad experience not only with logitech. Had the same problem with HyperX after several months to over 1 year of usage. Went through two HyperX before I got the current logitech with the optical switches. Before that I went through several logitech.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 4:48 pm I use the same mouse on my laptop. These days? 23 months doesn't feel too bad for a $20 mouse. And lots of mice have the clicker problem - it was at the heart of my struggles with Razer. Most of the Logitech mice I've had die were because of middle-click issues.

I think that is a good solution. Just get a cheap logitech non gaming mouse. The most basic model cost only like $10. They're going to last as long as the expensive logitech gaming mice.

Instead of getting $100 mouse and use it for 1-2 years if you're lucky. Get $10-20 mouse and replace them as needed, can last you 5-10 years with same $100.

I agree - unless you need the features of the higher quality mouse.

I must not use my mouse that hard, since my old MX518 is still working fine, and so is my G500.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Mon Oct 30, 2023 11:59 pm I agree - unless you need the features of the higher quality mouse.

Or prefer the design/contours/size of the more expensive ones, which tend to be much more ergonomic than the bargain bin garbage.

Back in the mid 90s I clearly remember buying my new mice and keyboards at Electronics Boutique in the mall for under $20 each. MS stuff and Logitech.

To be fair to Logitech, their cheaper mice aren't bargain bin garbage. The quality is likely a little lower, and they don't have the some of the features, but in my experience, they're pretty solid mice. I use a G Pro Wireless for gaming. It's still a sub-$100 mouse, but I play enough shooters (game that rely on split-second timing) that the difference in input lag with the wireless connection from that mouse vs their cheaper wireless ones is noticeable, plus I use the extra buttons constantly (there are cheaper mice with the extra buttons - I chose the one I did for the faster performance, not the buttons.)

I've read that it takes a year to a year and a half for the average gamer to hit 10 million clicks. Two years is probably 15 to 20 million activations of the switch. That's a lot of wear and tear.

Daehawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 10:41 am Back in the mid 90s I clearly remember buying my new mice and keyboards at Electronics Boutique in the mall for under $20 each. MS stuff and Logitech.

So....about $40 in today's dollars.

I've been using a Corsair Katar Pro, and it's been really rock-solid and fairly cheap at $49.99 CAD. It's lightweight and I love its low-profile. It's been quite a comfortable mouse.

I've had good experiences with Corsair over the years. Their keyboards have been great. The only downside is that their software is a mess.

the (rebranded Steelseries 300) HP Omen mouse i'd mentioned earlier is still holding up years later. i managed to acquire two more of them for free (knew someone who knew someone who used to work for HP), so i'm set for life now.

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:33 pm I've had good experiences with Corsair over the years. Their keyboards have been great. The only downside is that their software is a mess.

I haven't had any issues with their software. I've just had to play with some of the settings and save them to the mouse and keyboard so that I don't have to have the software running constantly. That makes it lightweight on the software front and is a major plus for me, as compared to some like *cough* Razer, and doesn't require you to login to anything.

Rumpy wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 4:06 pm

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 2:33 pm I've had good experiences with Corsair over the years. Their keyboards have been great. The only downside is that their software is a mess.

I haven't had any issues with their software. I've just had to play with some of the settings and save them to the mouse and keyboard so that I don't have to have the software running constantly. That makes it lightweight on the software front and is a major plus for me, as compared to some like *cough* Razer, and doesn't require you to login to anything.

With the lighting and configuration options on some of the pieces I had (I was running Corsair for both mouse and keyboard), I had to keep the software running. Just setting it, moving the settings to the mouse's memory, and exiting iCue would have been a lot less of a pain, had I been able to do so. Right now I have a Corsair case, cooler, and RAM. I'm also running some other company's fans, plus a SteelSeries keyboard, a Logitech mouse and headset, and yet another company's GPU. Each has programmable lighting, and each needs separate software.

Which is why I only keep the Logitech software running (mostly for the sound settings), and manage all of the rest through [URLhttps://signalrgb.com/]SignalRGB[/URL]. It is a single-app solution for basic settings and lighting for a wide range of manufacturers (and its free version is only limited in the number of pre-made lighting options it provides.)

Blackhawk wrote: ↑Tue Oct 31, 2023 7:42 pm

With the lighting and configuration options on some of the pieces I had (I was running Corsair for both mouse and keyboard), I had to keep the software running. Just setting it, moving the settings to the mouse's memory, and exiting iCue would have been a lot less of a pain, had I been able to do so.

It's a feature of the software though. If I remember correctly though, it's not exactly obvious that you can do it. But there's an option for it when setting up the hardware. I have one of their mice and keyboards and was able to do it with both, no issues.

It could also be functionality they added after I replaced my last Corsair peripheral a few years ago.

FWIW, iCue has always been notoriously buggy. I don't remember all of the problems I had with it, but I spent a lot of time chatting with their support.

Could very well be. I find it very handy because then I can just set it and forget it and not let the software use the precious resources on my aging computer.

Quite a few keyboards and mice have that functionality (internal memory for the settings) these days. The reasoning is to let people travel with their equipment (IE - you can grab your personal mouse and keyboard, go to a friend's house/other location, plug it in, and play with all of your settings intact.) I have no idea if that's common or just a marketing ploy. The only downside is that there are often a few settings that are only available with the app (which may or may not matter, depending on which settings you use - if you just set the sensitivity and ignore the rest, it's likely not an issue.)

Well, I can only hope they become more common, or even a standardized idea. I think it's one of the better features to come out of hardware in the last several years.

FWIW, Logitech does it. I don't close the app, though, as it's also what runs my headphones (and the voice clean-up feature is handy.)

I haven't used Logitech in years. Last thing I needed to use software with was one of their gaming keyboards, the G110, I think, and at that point I don't think it was a feature.

It definitely is now.



Also, I should probably plug my mouse in tonight.

The problem I have with Logitech is their price-to-quality ratio. They seem to be very expensive for what they are. Before the Corsair mouse, I'd bought the new version of the MX500 (I think that's the one, as they revived it a few years ago) and it was expensive enough at $75CAD but felt very cheap. Didn't fit my hand properly anyway and was not comfortable to me, so I ended up getting the Corsair which I feel is of much better quality and I got it for less than the Logitech.

And that's fair. I haven't had a problem with their quality in the last few years (and my prior experience with them had been a decade-plus before), but then again, I research the living hell out of gaming peripherals before I buy, looking at reviews, specs, discussions on what to look for for various purposes, etc., balancing it all with my budget. By the time I actually spend money on gaming accessories, I've made damned sure that it isn't a cheap dud. I don't have the money to keep replacing things before their time (thus my strict avoidance of Razer.)

And another conditional - I've owned exactly two Logitech gaming peripherals - my G Pro Wireless mouse and my Pro X Wireless headset. I've got a few other Logitech products, but the mouse I use to start and stop shows on the TV computer isn't exactly getting a lot of wear and tear.

In other words, I've had good experiences with them, but my sample size for their gaming-level line is two products.

I used to be a big fan of their products and bought many since the early 90's, and at that point it seemed everything they made was quality. I think I used to have one of their first mice. Over time, I've only seen their quality decline and their prices go up.

The clincher for me was with the G110. It wasn't a great keyboard, but you have to remember they were a mainstream player, and companies like Razer and Corsair hadn't hit the mainstream. I remember paying a lot for it, like over $120 CAD, and when I got it home, I felt quite disappointed as some of the keys were sticking right out of the box. Not a great impression to make on something with a high price tag. I had almost considered bringing it back to the store, but I needed a keyboard. So, I stuck with it for at least 5 years.

Another disappointment was with the Harmony remotes. They used to be great. But the last model we had kept freezing up, shutting down and forgetting its settings randomly, and apparently that particular model had known issues. To my surprise, it was one of the models they sold nearly everywhere, including Costco, and they kept being sold despite the known issues.

After those experience, I hadn't touched a Logitech product in years. And yeah, like you I generally try to do research on these kinds of products.

Logitech G203 Wired Gaming Mouse

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