Shutdown

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:23 pm

Hey, I'm all about burning drumpf to the ground, but this shutdown isn't about fucking over drumpf.

This isn't "no wall because drumpf wants it". This is Dems: No wall, lots of border security money. Reps: No wall, lots of border security money. Drumpf: Only wall, everything else irrelevant.

Like I said, I'll happily curse drumpf at every step, but the only side making this about drumpf, is drumpf. Even the Reps are confused and bewildered by his antics.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:35 pm

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 7:36 pm

stimpy wrote:When Dems want it, Repubs fight it.
When Repubs want it, Dems fight it.

While this is true, it's also ignoring a key difference in WHY they fight it.

There's only one side that has imbued the word "liberal" with such negative connotations that it instantly riles their base into a mouth-frothing frenzy. Republicans have deliberately created an atmosphere in which the opposing party is not someone with a difference of opinion, but a mortal enemy.

Do you see Democrats tossing around the word "conservative" like it's a swear word? No. They're still fighting old-school politics - over differences in their approach to solving a problem. Republicans are operating on a fully obstructionist platform.

I'm not saying the Democrats are not guilty of partisanship, but it's a very lopsided affair right now.

Alefroth · Post by **Alefroth** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 8:46 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:36 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:52 am
Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:56 am They save good people from attempting a very dangerous journey from other countries, thousands of miles, because they think they have a glimmer of hope of coming through. With a wall, they don't have that hope.
Can we get that inscription on the Statue of Liberty updated?
Do you people really need to be reminded of the difference between those that came here legally and those that are trying to come here illegally?????

I'd be curious to hear what you think the difference is.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:36 pm

Let me try a stab at this. White people immigrate here legally. Brown people immigrate here illegally. Does that sound about right?

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:00 pm

Every caravan Trump has treated as justification for a Wall is attempting to come here legally.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:01 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:36 pm Let me try a stab at this. White people immigrate here legally. Brown people immigrate here illegally. Does that sound about right?

Wow...it's like you know me!!!
Get out of my head!!!!

NickAragua · Post by **NickAragua** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 10:51 pm

Heh, those conservatives think illegal immigration is a problem now, wait until climate change really starts hitting the equatorial areas hard. Those poor guys are gonna be pouring over the border like nobody's business, and there's not gonna be a damn thing anyone will be able to do to stop them.

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:03 pm

stimpy wrote:When Dems want it, Repubs fight it.
When Repubs want it, Dems fight it.

That is what I'm complaining about.
It has gotten to ridiculous proportions.

It has gotten to ridiculous proportions because a ridiculous man Cheeto is taking it to ridiculous proportions.

stimpy · Post by **stimpy** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:03 pm
stimpy wrote:When Dems want it, Repubs fight it.
When Repubs want it, Dems fight it.

That is what I'm complaining about.
It has gotten to ridiculous proportions.
It has gotten to ridiculous proportions because a ridiculous man Cheeto is taking it to ridiculous proportions.

Yep. Things were SO hunky dory before Trump took office.
I used to love how both sides would join hands every Monday and sing kumbaya.
God I miss those days.

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:39 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pmGod I miss those days.

Just think about how many more sing-alongs we'll be able to have with the extra $1000 we're getting from you this year.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:25 am

stimpy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm
Yep. Things were SO hunky dory before Trump took office.
I used to love how both sides would join hands every Monday and sing kumbaya.
God I miss those days.

I don't get you.

It has been 2 years of Drumpf and 8 years of Obama.

The last decade is both sides to you?

How about we approach this differently. When in your lifetime were things acceptable to you?

RunningMn9 · Post by **RunningMn9** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:08 am

stimpy wrote:Yep. Things were SO hunky dory before Trump took office.
I used to love how both sides would join hands every Monday and sing kumbaya.
God I miss those days.

We are talking about two different things. Yes, ten years ago a certain element of the “conservative” right went insane and formed the Tea Party. And yes, for eight years of the Presidency, they acted like crazy people. So in that respect, the crazy didn’t start with Trump.

However, the “ridiculous proportions” IN THE OVAL OFFICE clearly started with Trump. Obama may have done things that the Right didn’t like, but Obama wasn’t an insane, dumpster fire of a human being. Before him, GWB may have done things that the Left didn’t like, but GWB wasn’t an insane, dumpster fire of a human being.

In other words, this situation is different because this time, the person occupying the Oval Office is an offensive pile of human garbage. And 35% of the people are ok with that as long as he’s stiggin’ it.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:11 pm

RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 11:08 am
stimpy wrote:Yep. Things were SO hunky dory before Trump took office.
I used to love how both sides would join hands every Monday and sing kumbaya.
God I miss those days.
We are talking about two different things. Yes, ten years ago a certain element of the “conservative” right went insane and formed the Tea Party. And yes, for eight years of the Presidency, they acted like crazy people. So in that respect, the crazy didn’t start with Trump.

However, the “ridiculous proportions” IN THE OVAL OFFICE clearly started with Trump. Obama may have done things that the Right didn’t like, but Obama wasn’t an insane, dumpster fire of a human being. Before him, GWB may have done things that the Left didn’t like, but GWB wasn’t an insane, dumpster fire of a human being.

In other words, this situation is different because this time, the person occupying the Oval Office is an offensive pile of human garbage. And 35% of the people are ok with that as long as he’s stiggin’ it.

As Robert Reich put it in a recent video, we've had incompetent presidents before, and we've had racist presidents before, and we've had crooked presidents before. As our first incompetent criminal bigot, Trump has a good claim on Worst Ever. (Personally, I'm reserving that label for the time being; Trump hasn't racked up a large body count or trashed the economy, nor has he yet succeeded at undermining the rule of law, ruining our alliances, destroying our institutions, or any of his other works in progress. But yeah, if he succeeds at those things he will win the title.)

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:58 pm

The latest Hannity tweet is saying that Klingons have joined the Dothraki caravan. We're so screwed. They have pain sticks!

Dramatist · Post by **Dramatist** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 2:38 pm

I used to be like Stimpy. I didn’t pay much attention to politics and would always say both sides are equally bad.

But Trump changed all that. With him being such a horrible person and the Republican Party being complicit in his horribleness I no longer feel that way.

I hope the whole party is destroyed by Trumps Presidency.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:25 pm

hepcat wrote: ↑Sun Jan 27, 2019 1:58 pm The latest Hannity tweet is saying that Klingons have joined the Dothraki caravan. We're so screwed. They have pain sticks!

Bah, we are the Ferengi. We sold them those sticks. Rule 239: Never be afraid to mislabel a product. Rule 192: Never cheat a Klingon... unless you're sure you can get away with it.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Sun Jan 27, 2019 3:59 pm

hepcat wrote:The latest Hannity tweet is saying that Klingons have joined the Dothraki caravan. We're so screwed. They have pain sticks!

Oh and Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez is the Mother of Migrants, First of Her Name.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:39 am

WaPo

President Trump is again considering invoking emergency powers to build his proposed wall on the U.S.-Mexico border without congressional approval, roiling the latest bipartisan negotiations over immigration with the renewed threat of unilateral executive action and further dividing Republicans already reeling from the fallout of the shutdown.

“The president’s commitment is to defend the nation, and he will do it either with or without Congress,” acting White House chief of staff Mick Mulvaney said on “Fox News Sunday.”
...
Inside the West Wing over the weekend, Trump told advisers that declaring a national emergency may be his best option as he scrambles to assert himself in a divided government and secure wall funding, according to four people involved in the discussions who were not authorized to speak publicly.

One White House official described Trump’s decision to reopen the government as “clearing the deck” for executive action rather than a retreat. And a longtime confidant said Trump has grown increasingly frustrated by news coverage of his concession to Democrats and has been encouraged by conservative allies to escalate the fight.

A bipartisan, bicameral congressional committee has been charged with brokering an agreement on border security as part of a deal to keep the government open past Feb. 15, and a stalemate could trigger another shutdown.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:49 am

Wag that Fox!

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:58 pm

If that happens, please let them piss it away on 2 years worth of environmental impact studies, design, and legal issues stemming from land acquisition. Hopefully in 2020 we'll elect a saner president who can then kill the whole thing.

Meanwhile, the Dems ought to consider reallocating the apparent $5.7B surplus in the Pentagon budget.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pm

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 1:58 pm Meanwhile, the Dems ought to consider reallocating the apparent $5.7B surplus in the Pentagon budget.

The Pentagon has never passed a financial audit. Nobody knows how much money or inventory it has or how that money is spent. With accounting standards like that they can surely scare up a few billions wherever they feel that they need it.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:38 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pmThe Pentagon has never passed a financial audit.

While technically accurate, your phrasing is a bit misleading. The Pentagon was audited for the first time ever in 2018 - and had plenty of opportunity for improvement.

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:47 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:38 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pmThe Pentagon has never passed a financial audit.
While technically accurate, your phrasing is a bit misleading. The Pentagon was audited for the first time ever in 2018 - and had plenty of opportunity for improvement.

Yeah, "didn't pass" is not exactly the same thing as "failed" and they might do better when they start using established accounting standards. They've only had since the audit law was passed in 1990 to prepare, after all. The point is that if Trump orders them to scare up a few billion bucks, that shouldn't be a big challenge for them.

LawBeefaroni · Post by **LawBeefaroni** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:34 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:47 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:38 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 2:31 pmThe Pentagon has never passed a financial audit.
While technically accurate, your phrasing is a bit misleading. The Pentagon was audited for the first time ever in 2018 - and had plenty of opportunity for improvement.
Yeah, "didn't pass" is not exactly the same thing as "failed" and they might do better when they start using established accounting standards. They've only had since the audit law was passed in 1990 to prepare, after all. The point is that if Trump orders them to scare up a few billion bucks, that shouldn't be a big challenge for them.

I know you mean it in the colloquial sense but "scaring up a few billion" is exactly what Trump is doing with the wall and the imaginary hoarde of alien-zombies that he warns is shuffling towards our southern border.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 3:55 pm

stimpy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:28 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:03 pm
stimpy wrote:When Dems want it, Repubs fight it.
When Repubs want it, Dems fight it.

That is what I'm complaining about.
It has gotten to ridiculous proportions.
It has gotten to ridiculous proportions because a ridiculous man Cheeto is taking it to ridiculous proportions.
Yep. Things were SO hunky dory before Trump took office.
I used to love how both sides would join hands every Monday and sing kumbaya.
God I miss those days.

You know what the Ds and Rs did manage to agree on? They agreed on a continuing resolution to keep the government open back in December. Passed the Senate unanimously. Would have passed the House with ease. Someone said "NO!" and scared the congressional Rs away from finishing it.

So it's not like there's no room for bipartisanship. We had a great example of it in December. But one person essentially killed that - until he caved, that is.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 6:13 pm

NPR

The partial shutdown of the government reduced federal spending by about $3 billion and cut into overall U.S. economic growth, according to a report released Monday by the nonpartisan Congressional Budget Office.

The report says that due to the shutdown, which lasted from Dec. 22 through last Friday, about $18 billion in discretionary government spending was delayed. Most of the money will be spent later, now that the shutdown has ended.

As a result, the nation's gross domestic product will be about 0.2 percentage points lower for the fourth quarter of 2018 and 0.4 percentage points lower during the first quarter of 2019 than it would have been, although part of that will be recouped later in the year.

The CBO had projected first-quarter growth to be an annualized 2.5 percent, but including the effect of the shutdown, it's now estimated at 2.1 percent.

The report does not attempt to quantify the secondary effects of the shutdown on private-sector businesses but called them "significant."

Kraken · Post by **Kraken** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm

Also, restarting the government isn't like flipping a switch on. If you had taken an unplanned month off with nobody covering for you, imagine what your email and voice mail would be like when you got back. It will take some departments 2-3 weeks to clear their backlogs and get a routine going again. If Trump's just going to shut it down again three weeks from now...well, at that point an awful lot of people are going to be reconsidering their career choice.

Skinypupy · Post by **Skinypupy** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:57 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm Also, restarting the government isn't like flipping a switch on. If you had taken an unplanned month off with nobody covering for you, imagine what your email and voice mail would be like when you got back. It will take some departments 2-3 weeks to clear their backlogs and get a routine going again.

So, so much this.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 10:07 pm

My agency decided to use the money that came in with the CR to replenish our reserves, so we'll be good to go again if Trump closes things in 3 weeks.

I do feel for those who won't be so fortunate.

Max Peck · Post by **Max Peck** » Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:14 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm Also, restarting the government isn't like flipping a switch on. If you had taken an unplanned month off with nobody covering for you, imagine what your email and voice mail would be like when you got back. It will take some departments 2-3 weeks to clear their backlogs and get a routine going again. If Trump's just going to shut it down again three weeks from now...well, at that point an awful lot of people are going to be reconsidering their career choice.

2-3 weeks is very much on the optimistic side, for some parts of the government at any rate.

The Internal Revenue Service has told lawmakers it would return from the government shutdown buried in millions of unanswered taxpayer letters, weeks behind schedule on training for workers and in need of hiring thousands of new employees for this tax filing season, according to two House aides.

The National Taxpayer Advocate, a government watchdog group that oversees the tax collector, has also told House staffers that it is likely to take at least a year for the IRS to return to normal operations, according to the two House aides, who spoke on the condition of anonymity because they were not authorized to speak publicly about the numbers.

The watchdog group told House staffers that the recovery would take between 12 and 18 months, one House aide said. These numbers assume the government does not shut down again in three weeks.

Lassr · Post by **Lassr** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am

Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm Also, restarting the government isn't like flipping a switch on. If you had taken an unplanned month off with nobody covering for you, imagine what your email and voice mail would be like when you got back. It will take some departments 2-3 weeks to clear their backlogs and get a routine going again. If Trump's just going to shut it down again three weeks from now...well, at that point an awful lot of people are going to be reconsidering their career choice.

They said it may take a week just to get everyone's passwords reset that had them expire during the furlough. Luckily mine did not expire until next week so I could reset mine today on my own. Tried to call help desk today to have toner replaced in our printer and the hold was loooong. Gave up. We may not be printing much this week either.

GreenGoo · Post by **GreenGoo** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 2:42 am

Max Peck wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 11:14 pm
Kraken wrote: ↑Mon Jan 28, 2019 8:21 pm Also, restarting the government isn't like flipping a switch on. If you had taken an unplanned month off with nobody covering for you, imagine what your email and voice mail would be like when you got back. It will take some departments 2-3 weeks to clear their backlogs and get a routine going again. If Trump's just going to shut it down again three weeks from now...well, at that point an awful lot of people are going to be reconsidering their career choice.
2-3 weeks is very much on the optimistic side,

Many departments are working with limited budgets to begin with, and already have a backlog. This isn't going to help.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:11 am

Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am Tried to call help desk today to have toner replaced in our printer and the hold was loooong. Gave up. We may not be printing much this week either.

A phone call to get toner in a printer... What year is it again? I'm happy to report I have no idea how the toner gets replaced in our printers. I assume it has something to do with the woman in the Ricoh polo shirt I see walking around the area from time to time. Off topic, I know, but you can deal.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am

coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:11 am
Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am Tried to call help desk today to have toner replaced in our printer and the hold was loooong. Gave up. We may not be printing much this week either.
A phone call to get toner in a printer... What year is it again? I'm happy to report I have no idea how the toner gets replaced in our printers. I assume it has something to do with the woman in the Ricoh polo shirt I see walking around the area from time to time. Off topic, I know, but you can deal.

That's how it works with the government. If toner goes out in a group printer, you call someone to get it replaced. If toner goes out in your personal printer, you call someone to get new cartridge, which you then replace yourself. Office supplies, other than reams of paper, generally don't just sit around.

Pyperkub · Post by **Pyperkub** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:29 am

stimpy wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 4:36 pm
RunningMn9 wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 11:52 am
Unagi wrote: ↑Sat Jan 26, 2019 9:56 am They save good people from attempting a very dangerous journey from other countries, thousands of miles, because they think they have a glimmer of hope of coming through. With a wall, they don't have that hope.
Can we get that inscription on the Statue of Liberty updated?
Do you people really need to be reminded of the difference between those that came here legally and those that are trying to come here illegally?????

If either side actually wanted to do something about immigration as compared to using it as a wedge issue, e-verify would be mandatory.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:05 am

pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:11 am
Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am Tried to call help desk today to have toner replaced in our printer and the hold was loooong. Gave up. We may not be printing much this week either.
A phone call to get toner in a printer... What year is it again? I'm happy to report I have no idea how the toner gets replaced in our printers. I assume it has something to do with the woman in the Ricoh polo shirt I see walking around the area from time to time. Off topic, I know, but you can deal.
That's how it works with the government. If toner goes out in a group printer, you call someone to get it replaced. If toner goes out in your personal printer, you call someone to get new cartridge, which you then replace yourself. Office supplies, other than reams of paper, generally don't just sit around.

As opposed to the workers. [/ducks]

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:10 pm

Jaymann wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 11:05 am
pr0ner wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:24 am
coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:11 am
Lassr wrote: ↑Tue Jan 29, 2019 12:01 am Tried to call help desk today to have toner replaced in our printer and the hold was loooong. Gave up. We may not be printing much this week either.
A phone call to get toner in a printer... What year is it again? I'm happy to report I have no idea how the toner gets replaced in our printers. I assume it has something to do with the woman in the Ricoh polo shirt I see walking around the area from time to time. Off topic, I know, but you can deal.
That's how it works with the government. If toner goes out in a group printer, you call someone to get it replaced. If toner goes out in your personal printer, you call someone to get new cartridge, which you then replace yourself. Office supplies, other than reams of paper, generally don't just sit around.
As opposed to the workers. [/ducks]

I always knew you were a government hating conservative!

Daehawk · Post by **Daehawk** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 6:45 pm

My dog started barking earlier today and I looked out and a car was at the end of my driveway with an elderly looking gentleman standing beside it. I went out and asked him if he was ok as the rear of his car was still in the road. Turns out he lives a few houses down and was out of gas. He is laid off because of the shutdown and had no money. I offered some gas but had lost my key so cant get in the out building for the lawnmower gas.( I MUST find these keys. They are 25+ years old and its my garage outbuilding keys) I then offered him a little money. You guys know I cant do it and dont have it to spare but I did. He said his kids were bringing him some. So I stayed and talked to him for the half hour it took them to arrive. He was ex police from here in the old days and even remembered chasing a guy past here and the guy jumping the hill and creek at the curve below us. Neat stuff.

Just shows how the shutdown is hurting regular and in need people while the big shots are fine in Washington. Shame.

I felt bad I couldn't help out.

malchior · Post by **malchior** » Tue Jan 29, 2019 10:30 pm

Fuck these guys