So I’m watching this finally and I’m confused by something.
Spoiler:
In the prequels Kenobi is a super speedin’, ultra levitatin’ powerhouse. But 10 years on he struggles to lift a small child with this mind…let alone zip around like a speed skater on uppers. Is the force like a muscle in that if you don’t exercise it, you get force flabby?
Also, episode 2 had
Spoiler:
Oh, and I’m not getting the hate for the actress playing Reva. She’s doing fine, as far as I’m concerned.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 12:06 am
by El Guapo
Regarding the first thing:
Spoiler:
My understanding is that Obi Wan has semi-cut himself off from the force (or at least has significantly retreated / let that essentially atrophy. This is both as a survival mechanism to avoid detection (and make sure that he can live to protect Luke), and also to a degree the result of depression by virtue of having his whole world destroyed.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 9:22 am
by hepcat
I was wondering if
Spoiler:
perhaps the light side of the force was weaker after the death of so many of its followers?
I'm enjoying the show and I was pleased that Disney went
Spoiler:
full on evil with the Vader appearance. Snapping the neck of an innocent villager, dragging another around by the throat, all while lazily taking a stroll around the block....now THAT'S some evil shit.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:03 am
by Unagi
MASSIVE Spoiler on this new Wednesday's episode (Part V):
Spoiler:
The message that was sent to obi-wan couldn't have been more revealing of critical information.
"I know we said no communication, but" :: this will be listened to...
"If he knows about the children..." :: omg, you had to mention both kids?
"Owen on Tatooine" :: oh man, really - you just needed to give the name and planet !?
And then - the big reveal!!
Something that I had read speculated seems to be coming true, but they blew the prediction.
The speculation was she was one of the younglings in the opening scenes - and somehow she was lead to believe the Jedi abandoned her, etc, etc... But no. She is hunting Vader. Very cool.
I'm having a lot of fun with this.
IMO, truly a great episode.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 10:10 am
by Unagi
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:40 pm
Oh, and I’m not getting the hate for the actress playing Reva. She’s doing fine, as far as I’m concerned.
I agree. I think she is doing a really good job with it.
hepcat wrote: ↑Tue Jun 14, 2022 8:40 pm
Oh, and I’m not getting the hate for the actress playing Reva. She’s doing fine, as far as I’m concerned.
I agree. I think she is doing a really good job with it.
I don't get the hate either. The only thing I can chalk it up to is racism.
On the internet review sites, I see that sometimes. But someone here mentioned they didn't like the role, but that it was because they thought the writing for her character was awful. Totally valid complaint. However, I don't find the writing for her character to be any worse or better than anyone else's on the show....so far.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:07 pm
by Unagi
So is it a valid complain if it’s the writing and the only problem someone had was with her acting?
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:09 pm
by hepcat
Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:07 pm
So is it a valid complain if it’s the writing and the only problem someone had was with her acting?
No, it's a valid complaint if it's the writing and the color of her left eye.
My point was that someone here said they didn't like her on the show, but then said it was because of the way the character is being written. I think that's a valid complaint and not one that sounds based on racism. As opposed to what I see on some internet review sites where they complain that the show is "woke" merely because of her inclusion.
But then again, I'm not quite sure what point you're trying to make with your reply.
Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:07 pm
So is it a valid complain if it’s the writing and the only problem someone had was with her acting?
No, it's a valid complaint if it's the writing and the color of her left eye.
My point was that someone here said they didn't like her on the show, but then said it was because of the way the character is being written. I think that's a valid complaint and not one that sounds based on racism. As opposed to what I see on some internet review sites where they complain that the show is "woke" merely because of her inclusion.
But then again, I'm not even sure what point you're trying to make with your reply.
I supposed then that Empire was woke because they had the nerve to have a black man run cloud city. Crazy hollywood liberal elites. Everyone knows the real Lando had to be a straight white male.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:30 pm
by hepcat
I recently got into an argument with an old friend over facebook messenger because I noted that some of the hate I've seen for a show we both like is because there are a lot of jerks out there who hate it simply because they include a black woman as a lead, therefore it's now a part of a culture war for some (read: racism). And even though I prefaced that with "and I'm not talking about you" and I clearly said "some" not "all", he got pissed and yelled at me for saying that any complaint about the show was immediately being discredited by attributing it to racism.
Wake me up when this crap is all over.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:02 pm
by Scraper
My favorite are the people who complain about all the mixed race couples in commercials and cry that it's woke. To me that's just good marketing, they try and hit as large of a target audience as possible with each commercial.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 2:06 pm
by hepcat
Just to be clear: I don't think all complaints should be dismissed as racism. I think there are still numerous valid complaints about this and all other shows...like a character just being poorly written in a viewer's eyes.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:01 pm
by YellowKing
Like anything, there are shades of gray. Some people will criticize because of race, some will criticize because of perfectly valid reasons. It's not all or nothing. But in today's political climate, everything seemingly has to be a binary, absolute choice, and everyone's the moral police.
It's irritating and why I largely try to stay out of it. The female Ghostbusters reboot gave me enough of that to last a lifetime.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:21 pm
by Blackhawk
I'm sideways on that. I like her character, and I like her. I'm just not sure that she's good fit for that character. She hasn't pulled off the deep pain and cold rage that the character really needs to shine. But the same could be said of any number of character/actor combos on any number of shows, and it's not enough to diminish my enjoyment at all. It's only really noticeable if I really dig into my impressions in response to the discussion.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:28 pm
by hepcat
I think we can all agree though that the guy wearing the giant bicycle safety helmet is the real star of the show. He knows that cycling safety is important, but he's still a Sith. It's a fascinating dichotomy.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:31 pm
by Unagi
I assume it’s cultural so it doesn’t yank at my funny bone as much.
Or perhaps due to physiology. Like maybe he’s got a mushroom head.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:36 pm
by Unagi
hepcat wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 1:09 pm
My point was that someone here said they didn't like her on the show, but then said it was because of the way the character is being written.
Well, that's part of our disconnect.
That's not what the quote I had seen had said at all. It said something more along the lines of "rarely does one actor's acting ruin a show the way that hers did." And I can not find that quote at all right now.
I do wonder if others recall the quote you are describing or the one I am.
and also - I realize and agree it's impossible to know what makes a person not like another person (or their acting).
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:40 pm
by Blackhawk
Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:31 pm
I assume it’s cultural so it doesn’t yank at my funny bone as much.
Or perhaps due to physiology. Like maybe he’s got a mushroom head.
A period of deep research and reflection (ie, a quick google search) tells me that it was a discarded Kylo Ren helmet design, and that their spinning lightsabers can be used as helicopters. Go go dark side copter!
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 3:50 pm
by hepcat
He's the Safety Sith.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 4:46 pm
by Jaymann
I only wonder if at some point "Ben" is going to snap out of it and remember he is a badass Jedi. Probably not. Or maybe Leia will become a Punky Brewster superhero.
"cowardly" Obi-Wan Kenobi is not something I was expecting, and as a result I think I giggled a bit when he was running from Vader like a teen from an ax-murderer in an 80's movie. I would not have been surprised to see him put his arms in the air, waving them around and screaming "AHHHHHHH!!!!" whilst running.
Perhaps they are trying to deepen the characters a bit from the ones we were just briefly introduced to in the movies, i.e. 'these people are humans, with strengths and weaknesses, not cartoon cutouts.'
I don't read it as "cowardly" so much as PTSD. The character has been through some shit and lost almost everything at this point.
I assume the rest of the journey will be a kind of recovery.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:20 pm
by Carpet_pissr
Jesus Christ. I’m the one that said that her acting was shit, and I stand by that. I ALSO said that she was very good in Queen’s Gambit, and that it COULD just be bad writing/casting.
The only reason that I qualified the original assertion was bc I suspected someone would throw the racism card. Glad I was wrong!
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:28 pm
by Blackhawk
Spoiler:
Also consider the fact that all of the bad that happened was through his own apprentice, an apprentice he was warned in advance was going to be problematic. He was utterly convinced in his own master's belief that Anakin was 'the chosen one', and ignored the warnings (and the warning signs) that he was unstable. He can't help but see the end result as his own failure (and, arguably, it partially was.) I can see him turning away from everything associated with that and choosing to live as an isolated hermit.
It also adds context to his reaction upon hearing that Anakin was alive, and upon seeing Vader. It wasn't cowardice, it was being forced to face his own perceived failures and their cost.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:48 pm
by Unagi
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:20 pm
Jesus Christ. I’m the one that said that her acting was shit, and I stand by that. I ALSO said that she was very good in Queen’s Gambit, and that it COULD just be bad writing/casting.
The only reason that I qualified the original assertion was bc I suspected someone would throw the racism card. Glad I was wrong!
For what it’s worth, your post is not the one that I was recalling.
You immediately mentioned the writing and the character and that you’ve enjoyed this actor. That wasn’t the comment I was speaking to. I honestly think I must have read what I read somewhere else, as I can’t find anything that resembles it here.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 7:39 am
by hepcat
Carpet_pissr wrote: ↑Wed Jun 15, 2022 11:20 pm
The only reason that I qualified the original assertion was bc I suspected someone would throw the racism card. Glad I was wrong!
I did try to nip that in the bud by pointing out your complaint was perfectly valid earlier…a few times, actually.
But I still think her acting is perfectly fine in this. I could do without the parkour, of course.
p.s. Could your dislike of the character be because she obviously doesn't take cycling safety as seriously as her coworker?
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:25 am
by ImLawBoy
If find both her role and acting to be consistent with how Star Wars bad guys have been portrayed since the first movie - stiff and formal, very little subtlety.
Spoiler:
Until this latest episode, that is.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:49 am
by Sudy
Episode 5:
Spoiler:
- I wonder if Reva might be more popular if she had an Imperial accent. I don't love the character, but it certainly has nothing to do with race. It's very unfortunate but not surprising that so many jerks and racists have latched onto this. Star Wars has become increasingly diverse since the prequels, and especially since the Disney acquisition. I do admit it sometimes feels odd to see people of colour supporting the Empire/New Order when they're often viewed as analogues for historical fascist regimes that were generally white supremacists, but this is science fiction; they're not literally the Nazis. Human races don't need to be a line of division for them, even if they are racist toward alien species. I think the franchise's writers just need to be conscious of unintended implications like, "It's the 'future', we've solved race." Or, "Black people can be Nazis too", etc. But simply incorporating diversity into a global family adventure franchise is probably more important than the questions it raises. Imperial officers don't all need to be old, British white guys just because they were in the original trilogy. And obviously, Reva in particular has a special/hidden reason for being there.
- The de-aging in the Obi-Wan/Anakin flashback is just so bad. It's like they're getting worse at it! I mean, I'm sure it's an accomplishment, but it's so distracting. Christiansen is only 41... he doesn't look that old. Why not just smooth out those wrinkles with some makeup and throw him out there? Not everything needs to be perfect. And was this scene even needed? I get that it lets us into Vader's thoughts/motivations which is nice; this is generally hard to do because the character is tight-lipped and trapped behind a mask. But even though we have to accept that Anakin exists, Vader is just so much more menacing when he's a mysterious spectre.
- "How much time do you need to do the thing?" "Four hours." "You have one!" This trope is exhausting, and I'd love to see it backfire. In real life, some tasks don't have workarounds. Maybe rely on the opinions of the people who actually know how to fix something.
- A child crawling around in the vents? Give me a fucking break.
- So, considering it was Reva's/Vader's plan to have the droid disable the hangar roof, shouldn't they be smart enough to know the rebels are going to try to repair it, and maybe use that as a point of entry into the base (if they couldn't just slice into the main door with a lightsaber)?
- I love Kumail Nanjiani, but he sticks out so bad as "comedian cast in a non-comedy". Or maybe it's just my familiarity with him that's a problem.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:53 am
by JCC
I think her acting is very stiff and bogged down by mostly slow dialog delivery. I think it's intentional and part of her character and totally put that on the writing and directing. I think they are going for her holding in repressed anger and fear, but I just think it's a bit too much and makes her come off a bit wooden. But, the character still works.
I also agree that she was far more engaging in the Queen's Gambit. But of course she wasn't playing a conflicted Sith in that.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:55 am
by JCC
I also will repeat that I thought this week's episode was amazingly awesome. Just fantastic. I am giddy with anticipation for next week.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:00 am
by Smoove_B
Yeah, as a casual fan I enjoyed this week's episode as well - the pacing, the flashback that tied into to the current story, the action and of course the final confrontation.
I see all the spoiler'd grievances listed, but none of them affected me. Again, could be related to my view of the whole SW universe but none of them impacted my enjoyment.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:11 am
by Sudy
Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:00 am
I see all the spoiler'd grievances listed, but none of them affected me. Again, could be related to my view of the whole SW universe but none of them impacted my enjoyment.
I guess my list was especially negative this week, but nitpicking is enjoyable to me. Some reactions are superficial, but other gripes I really do believe would improve the quality of the content if heeded.
I enjoyed some of the episode as well, but praising it is less fun and offers no reward.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 12:59 pm
by hepcat
Sudy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:11 am
I enjoyed some the episode as well, but praising it is less fun and offers no reward.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:01 pm
by El Guapo
Yeah, I think this episode was by far the strongest of the show, and kind of makes some of the tedium of the prior episodes worth it. Also did a lot to help with the character depth of Reva.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:21 pm
by Smoove_B
Sudy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 10:11 am
I enjoyed some of the episode as well, but praising it is less fun and offers no reward.
It does help generate discussion.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 3:52 pm
by Carpet_pissr
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:25 am
If find both her role and acting to be consistent with how Star Wars bad guys have been portrayed since the first movie - stiff and formal, very little subtlety.
I agree that there are quite a few cartoony, one-dimensional over the top villains (General Hux I'm looking at you!). But great, well-acted villains also exist in the SW universe:
Kylo Ren comes to mind. Amazing villain, amazing acting.
Phasma was also good I think, without being crazy over the top.
Count Dooku
Palpatine in his various iterations.
Several others.
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:25 am
If find both her role and acting to be consistent with how Star Wars bad guys have been portrayed since the first movie - stiff and formal, very little subtlety.
I agree that there are quite a few cartoony, one-dimensional over the top villains (General Hux I'm looking at you!). But great, well-acted villains also exist in the SW universe:
Kylo Ren comes to mind. Amazing villain, amazing acting.
Phasma was also good I think, without being crazy over the top.
Count Dooku
Palpatine in his various iterations.
Several others.
I dunno. I was just thinking (in part prompted by this series) that in some ways the Sith are a limitation on the greatness of future Star Wars because they are fairly cartoon-y villains in general ("we want power and to destroy the weak and children!"). Kylo Ren was pretty good (largely because Adam Driver did a great job) but most of the villains are fairly weak - Dooku in particular was something of a missed opportunity, especially since they had Christopher Lee to work with.
ImLawBoy wrote: ↑Thu Jun 16, 2022 9:25 am
If find both her role and acting to be consistent with how Star Wars bad guys have been portrayed since the first movie - stiff and formal, very little subtlety.
I agree that there are quite a few cartoony, one-dimensional over the top villains (General Hux I'm looking at you!). But great, well-acted villains also exist in the SW universe:
Kylo Ren comes to mind. Amazing villain, amazing acting.
Phasma was also good I think, without being crazy over the top.
Count Dooku
Palpatine in his various iterations.
Several others.
I dunno. I was just thinking (in part prompted by this series) that in some ways the Sith are a limitation on the greatness of future Star Wars because they are fairly cartoon-y villains in general ("we want power and to destroy the weak and children!"). Kylo Ren was pretty good (largely because Adam Driver did a great job) but most of the villains are fairly weak - Dooku in particular was something of a missed opportunity, especially since they had Christopher Lee to work with.
I agree with you, but if you're going to mention missed opportunities, I think you HAVE to look at Phasma. She was portrayed as the ultimate bad ass, chrome ST armor and everything, but she literally had two scenes, both of which she got her ass whooped in seconds. I mean, if you're going to put someone in armor like that and make her the first known female ST in any Star Wars format, do something with her. She got the Boba Fett treatment SO bad.
Re: [Disney+] Obi-Wan Kenobi
Posted: Thu Jun 16, 2022 6:40 pm
by Jaymann
I guessed a certain character's "secret" in the first episode. Also, why did:
Spoiler:
The stormtroopers bother blasting the door when Reva could slice it open like butter?
