Octopus Overlords

This is how I feel. The complete lack of urgency for this just has little legitimate explanation.

I'm 100% with you. The lack of urgency is a Godzilla-sized Susan Collins level of concerning.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 5:29 pm I'm 100% with you. The lack of urgency is a Godzilla-sized Susan Collins level of concerning.

Somehow that image is more frightening than an actual Godzilla.

To be clear I'm not 100% with Sarah that the democrats sort of "want the coup to suceed" but as a measure of their incompetence they are acting that way though. Heck where is Biden on this? Whatever their master plan is, it doesn't appear to be working.

Our only hope is that Dems are massaging Manchin and Sinema with back-room negotiations and that the GOP isn't more effectively doing the same.

If we somehow live in a WEST WING universe, it's possible that the balky senators will declare that they tried to save Jimmy Stewart but there just weren't enough sincere people in the Other Party.

That's what I'm hoping is happening too. What I fear is actually happening is that Biden is worried he won't get his infrastructure plan through so the WH isn't making a ruckus. The commission and any investigation falls through. The next shoe to drop is that the infrastructure plan somehow doesn't get a vote or is severely curtailed. I am at that level of skepticism at this point.

Holman wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 7:21 pm Our only hope is that Dems are massaging Manchin and Sinema with back-room negotiations and that the GOP isn't more effectively doing the same.

If the fate of our nation hangs on the way these two vote, then we might as well throw in the towel now. That either would require convincing after a violent overthrow at the Capitol was attempted on 1/6 is mind-boggling to me. That anyone not aligned with the Red Hats would require convincing is similarly mind-boggling. Were they not there on 1/6? Do they not remember what happened?

Relatedly, a bill to address Capitol Hill security in the wake of 1/6 barely passed.

A small group of progressives known as the “squad” came close to sinking the House Democrats’ Capitol security spending bill on Thursday over concerns about Capitol Police accountability.

Democratic Reps. Cori Bush (Mo.), Ilhan Omar (Minn.) and Ayanna Pressley (Mass.) all voted “no,” while Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) and Jamaal Bowman (N.Y.) voted “present.”

Their opposition created a dramatic scene on the House floor leading up to the vote, as Democratic leaders scrambled to secure the necessary support and prevent an embarrassing loss on a high-profile proposal to address the security failures of the Jan. 6 insurrection. Every Republican opposed the measure, leaving little room for error.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... urity-bill

Can all of the Republican offices be located nearest the front door?

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:43 pm Can all of the Republican offices be located nearest the front door?

It would make no difference. The Nazis weren't there to threaten Trump loyalists.

Defiant wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 8:35 pm Relatedly, a bill to address Capitol Hill security in the wake of 1/6 barely passed.

A small group of progressives known as the “squad” came close to sinking the House Democrats’ Capitol security spending bill on Thursday over concerns about Capitol Police accountability.

Democratic Reps. Cori Bush (Mo.), Ilhan Omar (Minn.) and Ayanna Pressley (Mass.) all voted “no,” while Reps. Alexandria Ocasio-Cortez (N.Y.), Rashida Tlaib (Mich.) and Jamaal Bowman (N.Y.) voted “present.”

Their opposition created a dramatic scene on the House floor leading up to the vote, as Democratic leaders scrambled to secure the necessary support and prevent an embarrassing loss on a high-profile proposal to address the security failures of the Jan. 6 insurrection. Every Republican opposed the measure, leaving little room for error.

https://thehill.com/policy/national-sec ... urity-bill

And yet Trump complains that Democrats are united.

Indeed. Trump is actually afraid of a united Democratic party. He wants to undermine their unity because even though they control the House, Senate, and Presidency they haven't yet been able to cobble together a coalition to stop the in-plain-sight dismantling of our democracy happening at the state level. And that's the way he and the GOP want it. Does anyone really doubt at this point that a 2nd Trump term would have been very close to the end of our system as we know it?

malchior wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 6:14 pm To be clear I'm not 100% with Sarah that the democrats sort of "want the coup to suceed" but as a measure of their incompetence they are acting that way though. Heck where is Biden on this? Whatever their master plan is, it doesn't appear to be working.

The most charitable interpretation is that they are hoping it isn't as bad as it looks and that the coup faction will lose steam. And that is terrifying. Normalcy bias can be a powerful influence.

Less charitable is that they recognize the threat but are too incompetent or entrenched in the status quo to act decisively.

And of course the worst interpretation is that they actively want the same thing and the whole thing is a huge act to evenly divide and conquer the nation.

Yeah I think that is calibrated right. She also released the tweet below to explain her thinking. She seems to fall into the least charitable bucket. And her instincts have been pretty good so far so I don't 100% discount it.

But most of the below is also explainable by deep institutionalist thinking. Biden's administration might as well be the 'very serious people'. I think the reality falls into a borderline more towards the first with a smattering of the second band above. I don't know what's worse though. All of them likely end at the same destination right now but maybe with varying timelines.

How about they recognize the threat, but they currently don't have the power that enables a master plan that can put a stop to the threat?

(But, hey, maybe if the fascists enact their agenda, it will unlock a presidential power that will allow Democrats to shoot Hitler?)

(Edit: this was in response to LawBeefaroni's post)

LawBeefaroni wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:51 am

malchior wrote: ↑Mon May 24, 2021 6:14 pm To be clear I'm not 100% with Sarah that the democrats sort of "want the coup to suceed" but as a measure of their incompetence they are acting that way though. Heck where is Biden on this? Whatever their master plan is, it doesn't appear to be working.

The most charitable interpretation is that they are hoping it isn't as bad as it looks and that the coup faction will lose steam. And that is terrifying. Normalcy bias can be a powerful influence.

Less charitable is that they recognize the threat but are too incompetent or entrenched in the status quo to act decisively.

And of course the worst interpretation is that they actively want the same thing and the whole thing is a huge act to evenly divide and conquer the nation.

Well, also one thing to bear in mind is that they need Manchin (and Sinema) to do anything substantive. They're the most important audience here, so they may be the focus of Democratic leadership's messaging / management on this.

Defiant wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:07 am How about they recognize the threat, but they currently don't have the power that enables a master plan that can put a stop to the threat?

I'd lump that in with incompetence. They have the White House and the House. They have popular support (if only barely). Presumably the Supreme Court isn't taking sides. I hope they're not waiting for some miracle next November.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 9:40 amWell, also one thing to bear in mind is that they need Manchin (and Sinema) to do anything substantive. They're the most important audience here, so they may be the focus of Democratic leadership's messaging / management on this.

That's definitely part of the math but the pattern emerging is larger than just this. The institutionalists plus Manchin/Sinema seem to be putting 'moving forward' and parochial concerns ahead of the reality that the country is in the midst of a crisis.

It's happening right now and if I were Biden I'd be way more worried that history doesn't see me as a Buchanan who failed to see the explosion coming. And worse also took steps that appeared in particular helped make the explosion happen which is what Kendizor is implying. I made an allusion to this last year. It might have been a bit harsh and premature at the time but I had this gut feeling that he wasn't the fighter we needed for this moment. The irony is he might have been the only one who could have won. That sad thought aside, it is becoming harder to defend this administration and Congress essentially slow walking us into the summer Congressional season with little to nothing actually done to deal with the biggest attack on our democracy since the civil war.

malchior wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 8:35 am Indeed. Trump is actually afraid of a united Democratic party. He wants to undermine their unity because even though they control the House, Senate, and Presidency they haven't yet been able to cobble together a coalition to stop the in-plain-sight dismantling of our democracy happening at the state level. And that's the way he and the GOP want it. Does anyone really doubt at this point that a 2nd Trump term would have been very close to the end of our system as we know it?

I doubt it. A 2nd Trump term would have put Democracy in America in the rearview mirror. It wouldn't have been very close it would have been well past.

That makes two Senate R's in favor of the 1/6 commission (Mitt Romney was #1, of course).

It fascinating that the same state GOP the brings us Murkowski was state GOP that brought us Palin, arguably the harbinger of where we are today.

Shameless. People might as well start heckling him at this point since it is as productive as covering this inanity.

At least Joe Manchin has Joe Manchin on his side. Too bad America doesn't.

Mitch McConnell is the only human being alive that could get in front of a microphone in his capacity as an elected official and with a straight face tell the press an investigation into an attempt to violently overthrow the 2020 election is "debating things in the past".

FFS my well of hatred for him is bottomless.

EDIT: And I guess we officially say nothing is going to happen now with Manchin clearly not interested in governance. Delay and drag out until the next set of elections, that's apparently the plan.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Tue May 25, 2021 4:57 pm Mitch McConnell is the only human being alive that could get in front of a microphone in his capacity as an elected official and with a straight face tell the press an investigation into an attempt to violently overthrow the 2020 election is "debating things in the past".

FFS my well of hatred for him is bottomless.

Trump/McConnell are below the line but I am starting to despise Manchin. I don't care if he is in a politically tough spot. He is loving the attention and power. He is absolutely the current poster child for the cynical brinkmanship posing as "centrist statesmanship" that is destroying our country. He hides behind the filibuster shield and ensures that nothing can get done - even the stuff that *CAN BE DONE* in a system where it is hard to make anything happen. It's just wrong.

Edit: One of my friends made a joke that maybe Manchin was this year's 'rotating villain'. Essentially someone designated to stand in the way of progress to diffuse the anger. Manchin is up next year so I don't think that's true but anything is possible.

Manchin still looking for his 10 good people - he's got 2! These comments were from earlier today. He equates busting the filibuster to destroying the government. Versus investigating an actual attempt to destroy the government.

The only hope is that Manchin actually determines that he can't get 10 GOP votes.

McConnell is probably lining up 10 senators to reassure Manchin and then betray him when the actual vote occurs.

Meanwhile the Senate will be in recess starting tomorrow for a week+ because of the holiday. Now we're into the full first week of June - 5 months after violent insurgents fueled by Trump and elements of the GOP tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power at the Capitol.

I am confident something is going to happen over the next 5-7 days that will draw attention away from this story (like maybe more "evidence" of how the Chinese intentionally created the COVID-19 pandemic). Maybe more Gaetz info will drop or he'll officially be removed from committee assignments. Maybe Greene will say more horrific things. My bet is on a weekend of insane gun violence that will dominate the news next week and another call for sweeping legislation. Mitch McConnell will creep out for a press release related to how much money Biden is wasting.

It never ends.

On January 6 commission bill, McConnell says "there's no new fact about that day that we need the Democrats' extraneous commission for"

As always, fuck Mitch McConnell.

Re: Manchin this is a generous read. In the end I think Manchin is unmovable. Whether he is a true believer, an institutionalist, corrupt, etc. he is not going to move and Biden is going to waste a lot of time trying to court him.

Edit: As to the healthy line, I can't help but feel that Leahy is barely alive. I half expect MTG to jump out of the shadows and scare him to death or trip him down the stairs of the Capitol rotunda. Just to make this whole thing more theater of the absurd. I haven't said this in awhile but this is no way to run the world's greatest democracy. Absolute clown shoes all around.

I'm sure there's something Manchin could say or do to convince 8+ more GOP senators to vote for this that hasn't already been said over the last 4+ months. I'm having an ultra hard time believing it's easier now to convince them an investigation is necessary than it was in the days following when they were cowering in the Capitol under a threat of violence.

And I'm half expecting a few of the (D) senators to vote against it as well, for reasons.

Remember when Mitch McConnell was able to get a Supreme Court Justice seated in less than a week? That's where their priorities are.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 12:08 pm Meanwhile the Senate will be in recess starting tomorrow for a week+ because of the holiday. Now we're into the full first week of June - 5 months after violent insurgents fueled by Trump and elements of the GOP tried to overthrow the peaceful transfer of power at the Capitol.

Time heals all wounds. The sooner you just move on and forget about that little bit of unpleasantness, the better off you will be. Why don't you go shopping and get yourself something nice?

Yeah the ACB confirmation is a great example. It makes me wonder if I'm not buying into some kabuki theater. Maybe Sarah Kendizor is right. They all are driven to go this way. Or at least the main players are able to force us down this track via the various levers of power.

It isn't hard to see that when the Republicans are in the drivers seat they miraculously get shit done. The Democrats? They can't even get a clear path budget bill together without internal fighting, negotiating against themselves, and other various bullshit. It's feels like fucking theater. The two sides aren't all the same obviously but the end result somehow always lands the same way nonetheless.

Holman wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 12:07 pm The only hope is that Manchin actually determines that he can't get 10 GOP votes.

McConnell is probably lining up 10 senators to reassure Manchin and then betray him when the actual vote occurs.

I wonder if that would convince him.

I would give Manchin the slimmest bit of slack if I knew he was doing anything to convince ten Republicans to join him.

Of course it won't change a thing for him. He'll just say clearly whatever was proposed wasn't middle ground enough and didn't include enough compromises.

Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:04 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 12:07 pm The only hope is that Manchin actually determines that he can't get 10 GOP votes.

McConnell is probably lining up 10 senators to reassure Manchin and then betray him when the actual vote occurs.

I wonder if that would convince him.

I would give Manchin the slimmest bit of slack if I knew he was doing anything to convince ten Republicans to join him.

+1. That is what I mean when I say it's all theater. We have serious, critical failure points happening right now and the guy is playing some game. I'd even give him slack if there was some horse trade in the offing. If there was some deal to keep corporate tax rates the same, pass a token infrastructure bill, and give everyone some bipartisan credit in return for support of a carve out for HR1 or something...I'd be not great but at least it'd be something approaching a strategy and a path forward. Instead, he is yelling at reporters to stop asking him about the filibuster as if he can't hear what they are really asking which is what will it take you to *SAVE OUR COUNTRY*. It's maddening if you are actually paying attention.

Smoove_B wrote: ↑Thu May 27, 2021 1:10 pm Of course it won't change a thing for him. He'll just say clearly whatever was proposed wasn't middle ground enough and didn't include enough compromises.

Agree. The way this guy has behaved for the past several months, I get a distinct "slippery, slimy pol" vibe. Goal posts will be moved should what he's demanding happen, etc. If the play (from him) is to delay, this is an EASY game.
"Well, you took me too literally! I didn't ACTUALLY mean 10! Figure of speech!"
A million other ways to defer, spin, etc. no matter what happens.

Unfortunately he's acting like he's read Lindsey Graham's quite popular "How to Constantly Lie and Keep Getting Re-Elected" book.

I was poking around to see what the Senate GOP legislative priority is right now, and you might want to sit down:

Senate Minority Leader Mitch McConnell (R-Ky.) is moving to protect “dark money” donors by supporting a bill that would continue concealing their identities from the Internal Revenue Service.

The “Don’t Weaponize the IRS Act,” introduced last week by Sen. Mike Braun (R-Ind.), would prevent the IRS from mandating that 501(c)(4) nonprofits identify their top donors in filings to the agency, turning IRS guidance issued under former president Donald Trump into law.

It's almost quaint to think they're in any way interested in investigating anything related to 1/6. As Lawbeef pointed out, that's history - it happened in the past. All focus is on 2022 and 2024.

"A personal favor"

Mitch McConnell has reached out to certain Republican Senators and asked them to vote against the commission as “a personal favor” according to this.

They harder they push back against this, the more I think its still 100x worse than we know.