Secret Hitler

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 7:47 am

Fellow Liberal Citizens!

President Vorret and I have seen the way clear to enact LIBERAL policy once again.

I received L-F from Vorret and of course picked L.

I believe that our long national nightmare of fascist scheming, bb2112, lies, El Guapo, and terror is nearly behind us. But we must remain vigilant, as two of their unidentified allies remain poised to undermine our efforts at good government.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:30 am

We're on fire Holman!

Holman · Post by **Holman** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 8:36 am

*waxes long, handlebar, not-at-all-toothbrush mustache*

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:11 am

With that I think it become clear that bb2112 and El Guapo are indeed fascist and that we should not allow any administration involving either of them to be elected moving forward. Given stessier's efforts towards electing El Guapo I feel inclined to include him in the "do not elect" grouping.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:14 am

Great! So we are one Liberal Policy away from a win?

So I'm guessing we vote No to bb2112 ticket.

I'm not sure who we can trust as part of a Chaosraven ticket. We could win the game right there.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:20 am

Huh, that's a surprise. I'm assuming Vorret would have corrected Holman if he had passed LL instead of FL. It must be the case that Hitler is sufficiently exposed that Holman thought there was an unacceptably high risk of Hitler getting executed. Which would almost have to mean that Chaosraven or Scoop is Hitler.

Well, one policy away from a glorious liberal victory, in any event.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:22 am

Holman wrote:Fellow Liberal Citizens!

President Vorret and I have seen the way clear to enact LIBERAL policy once again.

Here's where we stand:

Final Roster

bb2112 <----- The new Presidential Nominee
Chaosraven
El Guapo
Holman
Molière
Remus West
Scoop20906
stessier
Vorret

9 players:

5 Liberals
3 normal Fascists
1 Hitler Fascist

The Liberal Policy Track

Elections whiffed: 0
1st Policy Passed? Yes
2nd Policy Passed? Yes
3rd Policy Passed? Yes
4th Policy Passed? Yes
5th Policy Passed? No

The Fascist Policy Track

1st Policy Passed (Chaosraven investigated bb2112's identity)? Yes
2nd Policy Passed (Holman investigated Chaosraven's identity)? Yes
3rd Policy Passed (Moliere selects as the next Presidential candidate)? Yes
4th Policy Passed (Assassination obviated by popular uprising)? Yes
5th Policy Passed (President orders an assassination)? No
6th Policy Passed (Fascist Victory)? No

Deck 1 contained: 11 Fascist Policies and 6 Liberal Policies, shuffled.
Deck 2 contained: 8 Fascist Policies and 4 Liberal Policies, shuffled.
Talon count: 5
Discard count: 4
Enacted count: 8 (4 LIBERAL, 4 FASCIST)

Electoral History So Far:

Code: Select all

1. LIBERAL POLICY, Vorret & El Guapo
2. LIBERAL POLICY, bb2112 & Holman
3. FASCIST POLICY, Chaosraven & El Guapo
4. rejected slate, El Guapo & Holman
5. FASCIST POLICY, Holman & Vorret
6. FASCIST POLICY, Moliere & Scoop20906
7. LIBERAL POLICY, Vorret & Holman
8. rejected slate, Remus West & Chaosraven
9. rejected slate, Scoop20906 & Chaosraven
10a. rejected slate, stessier & El Guapo
10b. FASCIST POLICY autoenacted.
11. LIBERAL POLICY, Vorret & Holman

Action on bb2112: Please nominate as chancellor someone not in the set {Vorret, Holman}.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:49 am

Remus West wrote:With that I think it become clear that bb2112 and El Guapo are indeed fascist and that we should not allow any administration involving either of them to be elected moving forward. Given stessier's efforts towards electing El Guapo I feel inclined to include him in the "do not elect" grouping.

Indeed - the effort included much bush beating and came so close to success!! If people didn't know better, they'd almost think I set out to fail so we could get to a Vorret/Holman administration!

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 9:50 am

Vorret wrote:We're on fire Holman!

What was your full draw?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:13 am

So the way I see it, we have two choices.

Choice 1: Find someone for Chaos to serve with.
Pros: There are likely 2Ls left for Chaos to draw out of 5 cards, so there is a good chance he gets 1 to pass. If an F is passed, he can shoot someone.
Cons: We could nominate Hitler and lose.

Choice 2: Fail three elections and flip a random card.
Pros: We won't nominate Hitler as the next President will be Holman and he can choose Chaos as his running mate. The Veto power will be active.
Cons: Will not have anyone executed. There is not a way to skip enough people to get back to a Vorret/Holman ticket for a safe administration.

I'm leaning toward Choice 1 as the best play. Who would he nominate?

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 10:57 am

I got FFL sorry for the delay had to fix some stuff at work.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:35 am

So if we go with Choice 1, what does the field look like.

At this point, I'm willing to hitch my wagon to Vorret, Chaos, and Holman being Liberal.

El Guapo and BB2112 are Fascists.

So, there are two Liberals and two Fascists in the {Moliere, Remus, Scoop, stessier} set. I have the advantage of knowing I'm a Liberal (and I understand YMMV).

So {Moliere, Remus, Scoop}. Moliere voted yes on the Remus/Chaos ticket. Scoop and Remus voted No. We know Chaos is a Liberal.

Remus has seemed quite sure of himself. He hasn't really had any doubts or confusion. Remus is a evil. ( Always.)

Moiiere chose Scoop as his running mate. It seemed quite odd at the time. Scoop has seemed generally confused with which strategy we should be following and where the herd is going. I think Moliere set Scoop up. I think Scoop is the last Liberal.

For bonus points I think BB2112 is Hitler. I love me some bonus points.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 11:53 am

stessier wrote:Moiiere chose Scoop as his running mate. It seemed quite odd at the time. Scoop has seemed generally confused with which strategy we should be following and where the herd is going. I think Moliere set Scoop up. I think Scoop is the last Liberal.

Thanks for the confirmation on who the last fascist is.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:04 pm

We could win the game on choice 2 with the card flip too.

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:19 pm

stessier wrote:So if we go with Choice 1, what does the field look like.

At this point, I'm willing to hitch my wagon to Vorret, Chaos, and Holman being Liberal.

El Guapo and BB2112 are Fascists.

So, there are two Liberals and two Fascists in the {Moliere, Remus, Scoop, stessier} set. I have the advantage of knowing I'm a Liberal (and I understand YMMV).

So {Moliere, Remus, Scoop}. Moliere voted yes on the Remus/Chaos ticket. Scoop and Remus voted No. We know Chaos is a Liberal.

Remus has seemed quite sure of himself. He hasn't really had any doubts or confusion. Remus is a evil. ( Always.)

Moiiere chose Scoop as his running mate. It seemed quite odd at the time. Scoop has seemed generally confused with which strategy we should be following and where the herd is going. I think Moliere set Scoop up. I think Scoop is the last Liberal.

For bonus points I think BB2112 is Hitler. I love me some bonus points.

Sometimes all you can do is laugh at their efforts to set you up.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 12:25 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:We could win the game on choice 2 with the card flip too.

We could.

So at the reshuffle we had 8F and 4L in the deck.

Vorret / Holman - 2F / 1L => Deck at 6F & 3L (incidentally, Moliere proposed Vorret as the out of order President - have to rethink)
Remus - skip
Scoop - skip
stessier - skip - flip - F => Deck at 5F & 3L
Vorret / Holman - 2F / 1L => Deck at 3F and 2L

So if we flip a card, we will have 4 cards. If we are still playing it is because we flipped an F, so the deck would be at 2F and 2L.

Two of those cards would get dealt and then the pile is reshuffled and 1 more card would be dealt. The discard pile has 4F in it.

Maybe this is the safer play. We have a 40% chance we win on the blind flip. After that, Holman/Chaos (presumably), would have a >50% chance of getting 1L in their hand.

If we let Chaos choose, we risk electing Hitler, but he'd be drawing three cards out of a 3F/2L pile and forcing the reshuffle. If the game continues after his turn, the deck will have 4F and 2L and we won't have any margin for error.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 1:37 pm

I don't like choice 1 at all. To get this close and then blow it would suck. I say we chance winning on the flip and if we don't win immediately the win on Holman's turn.

bb2112 · Post by **bb2112** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:36 pm

Moliere

You guys are going down a dark path and there is nothing I can do about it.

Nice job Holman turning the village against El G and I. I have to give you and CR a ton of credit, you guys have played a great game and I can only hope with one L policy left to put in place that it blows up in your face.

Stess, no bonus points for you. You will find out the truth soon enough.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:43 pm

Are you suggesting Chaos is Hitler? There's no way.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:44 pm

bb2112 wrote: Moliere

You guys are going down a dark path and there is nothing I can do about it.

Nice job Holman turning the village against El G and I. I have to give you and CR a ton of credit, you guys have played a great game and I can only hope with one L policy left to put in place that it blows up in your face.

Stess, no bonus points for you. You will find out the truth soon enough.

Wait... what?
If Holman is F I'm going to be seriously amazed, he was just handed an F/L combo and picked, again, an L policy putting the liberals one policy away from a win.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:45 pm

stessier wrote:Are you suggesting Chaos is Hitler? There's no way.

Well, it would be one hell of a performance if he is, I mean, one that would go down in history as the biggest mindfuck ever.

Moliere · Post by **Moliere** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 3:58 pm

bb2112 wrote: Moliere

Please vote NO. I don't trust bb2112 to pass me a Liberal card. Most likely he's setting me up to receive 2 F cards and therefore make Scoop look innocent.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:01 pm

Moliere wrote:
bb2112 wrote: Moliere

Please vote NO. I don't trust bb2112 to pass me a Liberal card. Most likely he's setting me up to receive 2 F cards and therefore make Scoop look innocent.

Got ya covered Fassie.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:16 pm

bb2112 wrote: Moliere

Presidential candidate bb2112 has nominated Moliere as chancellor. Please PM me your vote, whether YES or NO.

Grundbegriff · Post by **Grundbegriff** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:26 pm

5/9. I await votes from bb2112, Chaosraven, El Guapo, and Remus West.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:29 pm

stessier wrote:So if we go with Choice 1, what does the field look like.

At this point, I'm willing to hitch my wagon to Vorret, Chaos, and Holman being Liberal.

El Guapo and BB2112 are Fascists.

So, there are two Liberals and two Fascists in the {Moliere, Remus, Scoop, stessier} set. I have the advantage of knowing I'm a Liberal (and I understand YMMV).

So {Moliere, Remus, Scoop}. Moliere voted yes on the Remus/Chaos ticket. Scoop and Remus voted No. We know Chaos is a Liberal.

Remus has seemed quite sure of himself. He hasn't really had any doubts or confusion. Remus is a evil. ( Always.)

Moiiere chose Scoop as his running mate. It seemed quite odd at the time. Scoop has seemed generally confused with which strategy we should be following and where the herd is going. I think Moliere set Scoop up. I think Scoop is the last Liberal.

For bonus points I think BB2112 is Hitler. I love me some bonus points.

Is it possible to get negative bonus points? I guess that would be penalty points.

Anyhow, the line-up is: Chaosraven, Holman, [Moliere / Scoop], [Remus / stessier / Vorret]. I feel strongest about Scoop being the fascist out of that grouping. Gun to my head, I think it's Chaosraven, Holman, Scoop, and Vorret, with Scoop as Hitler (and if not Scoop, then CR as Hitler).

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:31 pm

Why does it matter if you call me or Moliere a fascist at this point? Neither of us is going to be involved in a winning ticket.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:32 pm

That makes no sense. The most likely Hitler out of that group is Vorret. He's been the perfect Liberal. Hitler Scoop would never have passed the Fascist policy that outed him to Moliere.

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:33 pm

El Guapo wrote:
stessier wrote:So if we go with Choice 1, what does the field look like.

At this point, I'm willing to hitch my wagon to Vorret, Chaos, and Holman being Liberal.

El Guapo and BB2112 are Fascists.

So, there are two Liberals and two Fascists in the {Moliere, Remus, Scoop, stessier} set. I have the advantage of knowing I'm a Liberal (and I understand YMMV).

So {Moliere, Remus, Scoop}. Moliere voted yes on the Remus/Chaos ticket. Scoop and Remus voted No. We know Chaos is a Liberal.

Remus has seemed quite sure of himself. He hasn't really had any doubts or confusion. Remus is a evil. ( Always.)

Moiiere chose Scoop as his running mate. It seemed quite odd at the time. Scoop has seemed generally confused with which strategy we should be following and where the herd is going. I think Moliere set Scoop up. I think Scoop is the last Liberal.

For bonus points I think BB2112 is Hitler. I love me some bonus points.
Is it possible to get negative bonus points? I guess that would be penalty points.

Anyhow, the line-up is: Chaosraven, Holman, [Moliere / Scoop], [Remus / stessier / Vorret]. I feel strongest about Scoop being the fascist out of that grouping. Gun to my head, I think it's Chaosraven, Holman, Scoop, and Vorret, with Scoop as Hitler (and if not Scoop, then CR as Hitler).

Scoop isn't Scoop. Our current Scoop is acting like someone stole his skin and is playing on his behalf.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:34 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:Why does it matter if you call me or Moliere a fascist at this point? Neither of us is going to be involved in a winning ticket.

Bonus points!!

Vorret · Post by **Vorret** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:35 pm

stessier wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Why does it matter if you call me or Moliere a fascist at this point? Neither of us is going to be involved in a winning ticket.
Bonus points!!

Can you redeem them for cool prizes?

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:36 pm

Vorret wrote:
stessier wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Why does it matter if you call me or Moliere a fascist at this point? Neither of us is going to be involved in a winning ticket.
Bonus points!!
Can you redeem them for cool prizes?

Yes. But depending on which side wins, you might not want to.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:39 pm

stessier wrote:That makes no sense. The most likely Hitler out of that group is Vorret. He's been the perfect Liberal. Hitler Scoop would never have passed the Fascist policy that outed him to Moliere.

I essentially know that Holman is fascist, but I also know that Vorret / Holman passed a liberal policy that brings us to the edge of victory. The main reason why Holman would do that is if it was especially important that Vorret not control an execution. Since we know that Holman isn't Hitler, that suggests that Holman had some expectation that Vorret might plausibly bag Hitler with the execution. Which suggests that Hitler isn't as well hidden as the fascists were probably hoping. Which suggests to me Chaosraven or Scoop.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:40 pm

stessier wrote:
Scoop20906 wrote:Why does it matter if you call me or Moliere a fascist at this point? Neither of us is going to be involved in a winning ticket.
Bonus points!!

Yeah, pretty much. That, and I haven't entirely given up on persuading the village of the truth. And what else am I going to talk about while waiting on the election results?

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:44 pm

If we are playing for bonus points I think bb2112 is hitler but yeah we need to win first.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:44 pm

El Guapo wrote:
stessier wrote:That makes no sense. The most likely Hitler out of that group is Vorret. He's been the perfect Liberal. Hitler Scoop would never have passed the Fascist policy that outed him to Moliere.
I essentially know that Holman is fascist, but I also know that Vorret / Holman passed a liberal policy that brings us to the edge of victory. The main reason why Holman would do that is if it was especially important that Vorret not control an execution. Since we know that Holman isn't Hitler, that suggests that Holman had some expectation that Vorret might plausibly bag Hitler with the execution. Which suggests that Hitler isn't as well hidden as the fascists were probably hoping. Which suggests to me Chaosraven or Scoop.

Elementary, my dear Watson.

That is ridiculous.

If Vorret got the Shot, he would take out the guy who gave it to him - Holman. He couldn't be sure of anything Holman had said. You're really reaching.

Scoop20906 · Post by **Scoop20906** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:46 pm

So since this is a dead ticket what are we planning to do with the next one? I'll make my opinion clear. Take no chances and get to a card flip. If no win Then hope that Holman/Vorret can bring it home.

The only thing stopping us winning would be bad cards.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:48 pm

Scoop20906 wrote:So since this is a dead ticket what are we planning to do with the next one? I'll make my opinion clear. Take no chances and get to a card flip. If no win Then hope that Holman/Vorret can bring it home.

The only thing stopping us winning would be bad cards.

I disagree with Holman / Vorret. Vorret is unknown to Holman. Holman knows for sure Chaos is Liberal. It should be Holman / Chaos if we go that road.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:52 pm

stessier wrote:
El Guapo wrote:
stessier wrote:That makes no sense. The most likely Hitler out of that group is Vorret. He's been the perfect Liberal. Hitler Scoop would never have passed the Fascist policy that outed him to Moliere.
I essentially know that Holman is fascist, but I also know that Vorret / Holman passed a liberal policy that brings us to the edge of victory. The main reason why Holman would do that is if it was especially important that Vorret not control an execution. Since we know that Holman isn't Hitler, that suggests that Holman had some expectation that Vorret might plausibly bag Hitler with the execution. Which suggests that Hitler isn't as well hidden as the fascists were probably hoping. Which suggests to me Chaosraven or Scoop.

Elementary, my dear Watson.
That is ridiculous.

If Vorret got the Shot, he would take out the guy who gave it to him - Holman. He couldn't be sure of anything Holman had said. You're really reaching.

He might well take out Holman (you'll recall that we had a page or two about whether the president would execute his chancellor in this scenario). But if Holman figured that he would be the clear execution target, I would think that he would pass a fascist policy and face the firing squad, since that would bring the fascists to the brink of victory. That he didn't suggests to me that he was worried about Vorret bagging Hitler.

I could be wrong, of course. We'll see who has more bonus points at the end.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Wed Feb 17, 2016 4:57 pm

Yeah - just no.