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Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
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- hepcat
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Sadly, I do too. That country is fundamentally broken. And 20 some years of American occupation hasn’t changed a goddamn thing.
He won. Period.
- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I think this about to get interesting/funny (IMO). Right now the GOP/Fox want to pretend they care about people and our 'friends that need to be saved' -- only they also need to say that these people have no place here, and should not be allowed to come here.
- Carpet_pissr
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
If anyone can spin a seemingly contradictory position, they can. Masters at it.
- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
May be important for folks like AB to keep in mind, that most people that actually want to throw mud on Biden (over, and over, and over) are not going to be like AB, someone that also is 100% behind them being able to come to Toledo Ohio and set up a new home.
- Kraken
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
MA has said that we will welcome up to 1,000 refugees and several cities are already arranging housing and support for them. I'd welcome 20,000, if we could accommodate that many. Immigrants make us stronger in general, and these refugees in particular -- people who collaborated with us to try to build a country based on our ideals -- are the best kind of immigrants. Hell, they should be fast-tracked for citizenship as far as I'm concerned.
- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Meanwhile Tucker Carlson has floated yet another race-baiting conspiracy theory that tens of thousands of Afghan refugees have been welcomed into this country to change the outcome of future elections. ![Horse :horse:](./images/smilies/horse.gif)
![Horse :horse:](./images/smilies/horse.gif)
- Blackhawk
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
People who were willing to face torture and execution for those ideals, and did so because they trusted us to keep them safe.Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:57 pm MA has said that we will welcome up to 1,000 refugees and several cities are already arranging housing and support for them. I'd welcome 20,000, if we could accommodate that many. Immigrants make us stronger in general, and these refugees in particular -- people who collaborated with us to try to build a country based on our ideals -- are the best kind of immigrants. Hell, they should be fast-tracked for citizenship as far as I'm concerned.
If we don't have room, maybe we can kick out some MAGAs...
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
+1Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:38 pmPeople who were willing to face torture and execution for those ideals, and did so because they trusted us to keep them safe.Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:57 pm MA has said that we will welcome up to 1,000 refugees and several cities are already arranging housing and support for them. I'd welcome 20,000, if we could accommodate that many. Immigrants make us stronger in general, and these refugees in particular -- people who collaborated with us to try to build a country based on our ideals -- are the best kind of immigrants. Hell, they should be fast-tracked for citizenship as far as I'm concerned.
If we don't have room, maybe we can kick out some MAGAs...
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Right, because it's utterly hilarious that the U.S. left behind the majority of Afghan interpreters and others who went through the legitimate Afghanistan SIV application process along with an extensive vetting process (or were stuck in the interminable bureaucracy of doing so). It's not like there's any danger in evacuating a multitude of largely unknown Afghani randos that were fortunate enough to get swept up during the chaotic withdrawal, and doing so would totally make up for abandoning those who actually risked their lives and their families working with, helping, and trusting the U.S. So what if they're now in jeopardy of Taliban retribution? Serves 'em right for being so gullible as to take us at our word. As long as it serves as grist for the mill in the tedium of (R) vs. (D) tribalism, that's what really matters.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I think he was pointing to the hilarity of Fox doublespeak, not the ultimate fate of the Afghani's themselves.Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 amRight, because it's utterly hilarious that the U.S. left behind the majority of Afghan interpreters and others who went through the legitimate Afghanistan SIV application process along with an extensive vetting process (or were stuck in the interminable bureaucracy of doing so). It's not like there's any danger in evacuating a multitude of largely unknown Afghani randos that were fortunate enough to get swept up during the chaotic withdrawal, and doing so would totally make up for abandoning those who actually risked their lives and their families working with, helping, and trusting the U.S. So what if they're now in jeopardy of Taliban retribution? Serves 'em right for being so gullible as to take us at our word. As long as it serves as grist for the mill in the tedium of (R) vs. (D) tribalism, that's what really matters.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
…hence my concluding sentence.Drazzil wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 3:20 amI think he was pointing to the hilarity of Fox doublespeak, not the ultimate fate of the Afghani's themselves.Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:51 amRight, because it's utterly hilarious that the U.S. left behind the majority of Afghan interpreters and others who went through the legitimate Afghanistan SIV application process along with an extensive vetting process (or were stuck in the interminable bureaucracy of doing so). It's not like there's any danger in evacuating a multitude of largely unknown Afghani randos that were fortunate enough to get swept up during the chaotic withdrawal, and doing so would totally make up for abandoning those who actually risked their lives and their families working with, helping, and trusting the U.S. So what if they're now in jeopardy of Taliban retribution? Serves 'em right for being so gullible as to take us at our word. As long as it serves as grist for the mill in the tedium of (R) vs. (D) tribalism, that's what really matters.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- Blackhawk
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
That's a lot of spin.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Blackhawk
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
That wasn't a +1. Mine was a joke.Drazzil wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:32 am+1Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:38 pmPeople who were willing to face torture and execution for those ideals, and did so because they trusted us to keep them safe.Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:57 pm MA has said that we will welcome up to 1,000 refugees and several cities are already arranging housing and support for them. I'd welcome 20,000, if we could accommodate that many. Immigrants make us stronger in general, and these refugees in particular -- people who collaborated with us to try to build a country based on our ideals -- are the best kind of immigrants. Hell, they should be fast-tracked for citizenship as far as I'm concerned.
If we don't have room, maybe we can kick out some MAGAs...
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
- Unagi
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- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
So to be clear... AB, are you asserting that when we hear the numbers of Afghani’s that were ‘rescued’, those were all just Afghani randos, and the numbers most certainly don’t include and substantial number of SIV Afghanis? And hence , rando Afghani shouldn’t be allowed to be a refugee in Toledo.
I gotta admit, I’m wondered how FOX/etc would spin that: and I think you got it perfect there.
I gotta admit, I’m wondered how FOX/etc would spin that: and I think you got it perfect there.
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Mine wasn't. People willing to fight for democracy instead of tear it down? Yes please. Trade some of the Ya'll Queda for those guys.Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 9:04 amThat wasn't a +1. Mine was a joke.Drazzil wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 12:32 am+1Blackhawk wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 11:38 pmPeople who were willing to face torture and execution for those ideals, and did so because they trusted us to keep them safe.Kraken wrote: ↑Sat Sep 04, 2021 10:57 pm MA has said that we will welcome up to 1,000 refugees and several cities are already arranging housing and support for them. I'd welcome 20,000, if we could accommodate that many. Immigrants make us stronger in general, and these refugees in particular -- people who collaborated with us to try to build a country based on our ideals -- are the best kind of immigrants. Hell, they should be fast-tracked for citizenship as far as I'm concerned.
If we don't have room, maybe we can kick out some MAGAs...
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
No. I know how to use words; if that were what I meant, I would have said so.Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:04 pm So to be clear... AB, are you asserting that when we hear the numbers of Afghani’s that were ‘rescued’, those were all just Afghani randos, and the numbers most certainly don’t include and substantial number of SIV Afghanis? And hence , rando Afghani shouldn’t be allowed to be a refugee in Toledo.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Oh, I'm sorry. Do you understand how conversation works?Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:50 pmNo. I know how to use words; if that were what I meant, I would have said so.Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:04 pm So to be clear... AB, are you asserting that when we hear the numbers of Afghani’s that were ‘rescued’, those were all just Afghani randos, and the numbers most certainly don’t include and substantial number of SIV Afghanis? And hence , rando Afghani shouldn’t be allowed to be a refugee in Toledo.
When you speak only in sarcasm, what am I to understand from this?
it's utterly hilarious that the U.S. left behind the majority of Afghan interpreters and others who went through the legitimate Afghanistan SIV application process along with an extensive vetting process (or were stuck in the interminable bureaucracy of doing so). It's not like there's any danger in evacuating a multitude of largely unknown Afghani randos that were fortunate enough to get swept up during the chaotic withdrawal, and doing so would totally make up for abandoning those who actually risked their lives and their families working with, helping, and trusting the U.S. So what if they're now in jeopardy of Taliban retribution? Serves 'em right for being so gullible as to take us at our word.
I've made it clear what it sounds like to me when I cut through each of your sarcastic whips, so perhaps you could put a finer point on what you are saying? ...and use my totally incorrect attempt to paraphrase you as a starting point to what I don't understand about your point.
My point is/was this: If someone in Toledo is going to be upset about leaving our Afghani friends behind, I don't want to hear about them not being allowed to live in Toledo, because that would be an attack on our culture and an attempt to change future elections. -- to which you replied the above....
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I do, and you're clearly not interested in conversation; your interest lies in disingenuous misrepresentation, so I am done trying to converse with you on this topic.Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:02 pmOh, I'm sorry. Do you understand how conversation works?Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 4:50 pmNo. I know how to use words; if that were what I meant, I would have said so.Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 2:04 pm So to be clear... AB, are you asserting that when we hear the numbers of Afghani’s that were ‘rescued’, those were all just Afghani randos, and the numbers most certainly don’t include and substantial number of SIV Afghanis? And hence , rando Afghani shouldn’t be allowed to be a refugee in Toledo.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- Unagi
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Ok then ![Think :think:](./images/smilies/eusa/think.gif)
I think you are the one being disingenuous.
I said something, you replied with dripping sarcasm.
I asked if the point you were making was “x”, to which you replied that you knew how to write and would have written what I said had you wanted to.
I asked you to clarify then, and you came back here saying I was disingenuous.
Wtf.
Can I get an impartial ruling ?
![Think :think:](./images/smilies/eusa/think.gif)
I think you are the one being disingenuous.
I said something, you replied with dripping sarcasm.
I asked if the point you were making was “x”, to which you replied that you knew how to write and would have written what I said had you wanted to.
I asked you to clarify then, and you came back here saying I was disingenuous.
Wtf.
Can I get an impartial ruling ?
- El Guapo
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
You'll never guess, but shitbag Stephen Miller had a role in creating the Afghan SIV problem.
Black Lives Matter.
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Had you asked instead of patronizingly presuming, I may well have answered. But after you'd declared what "may be important for folks like AB to keep in mind" -- implying you were already perfectly aware of my viewpoint without asking -- I responded sarcastically and unambiguously. Which you went on to disingenuously misrepresent, with your own strawman presumption of what I believe, and then condescendingly ask, "If I understand how conversation works?" and clutch your pearls because I felt the dialogue between us on this subject was derailing and not going anywhere productive.Unagi wrote: ↑Sun Sep 05, 2021 5:35 pm I said something, you replied with dripping sarcasm.
I asked if the point you were making was “x”, to which you replied that you knew how to write and would have written what I said had you wanted to.
I asked you to clarify then, and you came back here saying I was disingenuous.
Suffice to say, I stand by that conclusion.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- TheMix
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Wow. That's one take, I suppose.
My impartial ruling sides with Unagi though. I thought he was genuinely trying to understand what you were saying. And you were a dick in return.
This is also not the first time that you've resorted to an "I know how to use words" response. But I have to wonder if you really understand how conversations work. You say "I meant exactly what I wrote". But the issue is that other people don't always understand what you mean. I don't see how getting snarky and unresponsive helps when people ask you to clarify. There is often meaning hiding behind words. I submit that your words are not as clear as you think they are. And if you are unwilling to put in any effort to clarify what your words mean, then, yes, you are definitely being disingenuous.
My impartial ruling sides with Unagi though. I thought he was genuinely trying to understand what you were saying. And you were a dick in return.
This is also not the first time that you've resorted to an "I know how to use words" response. But I have to wonder if you really understand how conversations work. You say "I meant exactly what I wrote". But the issue is that other people don't always understand what you mean. I don't see how getting snarky and unresponsive helps when people ask you to clarify. There is often meaning hiding behind words. I submit that your words are not as clear as you think they are. And if you are unwilling to put in any effort to clarify what your words mean, then, yes, you are definitely being disingenuous.
Black Lives Matter
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- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Multiple planes are ready to take U.S. citizens and green card holders out of Afghanistan — but the Taliban won't let them leave, officials say
cbsnews.com wrote:Multiple planes that are ready to take American citizens and green card holders out of the country are being denied permission to leave by the Taliban, congressional and NGO sources told CBS News.
Excerpts of an email from the State Department to members of congress viewed by CBS News acknowledged that charter flights are still on the ground at the Mazar-i-Sharif airstrip in northern Afghanistan and have permission to land in Doha "if and when the Taliban agrees to takeoff."
"The Taliban is basically holding them hostage to get more out of the Americans," a senior congressional source told CBS News.
The group Ascend, an NGO that teaches young women leadership through athletics, told CBS News they have two planes that have been waiting for six days ready to take between 600 and 1200 people — including 19 American citizens and two permanent residents.
CBS News has not been able to corroborate those numbers, but three other sources confirmed there are Americans in the area waiting to evacuate through charter flights.
The planes are not currently loaded. The passengers are being held nearby, because the Taliban won't let them into the airport, according to a senior congressional source.
"The U.S. airfield in Qatar that has been standing by, ready to receive, is now beginning to pack up," Marina LeGree, the group's executive director, told CBS News. "We hope visibility will add pressure to force a solution. Six days of talks are not encouraging."
The State Department advised members of Congress to tell groups seeking to evacuate out of Mazar-i-Sharif that the government "does not have personnel on the ground in Mazar, we do not have air assets in the country, and we do not control the airspace."
"It is a Taliban decision to ground flights in Mazar-i-Sharif," the email said. "We are, however, providing guidance and assistance to the extent possible — and with an emphasis on safety— to private entities working out of Mazar."
Congressional and NGO sources told CBS news there are at least two physical planes on the ground and six more with approved clearance. The obstacle is the Taliban, which controls the airport and is not letting people board or the planes take off.
"We had six airplanes at the airport, six airplanes with American citizens on them as I speak, also with these interpreters and the Taliban is holding them hostage for demands right now," Representative Michael McCaul, a Republican on the House Foreign Affairs Committee, told Fox News on Sunday.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- Isgrimnur
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
WaPo
Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Tuesday that some evacuation flights out of Afghanistan have been prevented from taking off because they included passengers without valid travel documents, an explanation that undercuts Republican claims that the Taliban is holding Americans hostage.
The top U.S. diplomat said the Taliban has agreed to allow anyone to leave as long as they have valid documentation, and he said he is unaware of any “hostage-type” situation.
“It’s my understanding that the Taliban has not denied exit to anyone holding a valid document, but they have said those without valid documents, at this point, can’t leave,” Blinken said.
“Because all of these people are grouped together, that’s meant that flights have not been allowed to go,” he said.
...
Blinken acknowledged Tuesday that without U.S. personnel on the ground, Washington is unable to verify the manifests and check the documents of passengers seeking charter flights out. As an alternative, the State Department has begun facilitating ground transportation of U.S. citizens and others, including the departure of four U.S. citizens on Monday.
That departure marked the first overland evacuation facilitated by the State Department since the U.S. military withdrew from Afghanistan last week. The Taliban was aware of the operation and did not impede the Americans’ safe passage, said a State Department official, who spoke on the condition of anonymity to discuss a sensitive mission.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I unequivocally spelled out the premise of my response in the last sentence of the relevant post, and subsequently bolded and re-emphasized that in my response to Drazzil. Yet this was curiously omitted from Unagi's quotation of my post exemplifying his uncertainty at my incomprehensibility, so pardon my scepticism.TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 9:50 am Wow. That's one take, I suppose.
My impartial ruling sides with Unagi though. I thought he was genuinely trying to understand what you were saying. And you were a dick in return.
This is also not the first time that you've resorted to an "I know how to use words" response. But I have to wonder if you really understand how conversations work. You say "I meant exactly what I wrote". But the issue is that other people don't always understand what you mean. I don't see how getting snarky and unresponsive helps when people ask you to clarify. There is often meaning hiding behind words. I submit that your words are not as clear as you think they are. And if you are unwilling to put in any effort to clarify what your words mean, then, yes, you are definitely being disingenuous.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- TheMix
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Your continual assumption that everything you write is "unequivocally spelled out" is the height of hubris. Short of an answer like "No" or "I like ice cream" (which could easily evolve into a more in depth discussion), I never assume that everyone knows exactly what is going on in my mind. Yet, you'll make complicated arguments or statements and then get offended and riled up when someone asks for clarification. Repeatedly. Enough that someone like me that doesn't get involved in these discussions has noticed the behavior. It's your right, of course, to push forward with the same behavior. But you will likely find that fewer members are going to want to engage you when it's clear that meaningful discussion is not on the table.
Black Lives Matter
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
But, he uses an unusually large font for his article links! Isn't that clear enough?
Sims 3 and signature unclear.
- Jaymann
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
My impartial ruling is AB slipping in pearl clutching was ingenious.
Jaymann
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
]==(:::::::::::::>
Black Lives Matter
- Anonymous Bosch
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I neither said nor assumed that everything I write is "unequivocally spelled out." What I said was that the meaning of my response was plainly conveyed in the last sentence of the relevant post, linked to that post, bolded & emphasized that sentence in a subsequent response, which Unagi then sanitized to illustrate how incredibly confusing and unfathomable the hidden meaning of my words was.TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:07 pmYour continual assumption that everything you write is "unequivocally spelled out" is the height of hubris. Short of an answer like "No" or "I like ice cream" (which could easily evolve into a more in depth discussion), I never assume that everyone knows exactly what is going on in my mind.
Thank you so much for inserting yourself into this discussion to impartially insult me as a hubristic dick, and sharing your worldly wisdom on considerate behaviour and engagement with fellow forum members.TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 4:07 pmYet, you'll make complicated arguments or statements and then get offended and riled up when someone asks for clarification. Repeatedly. Enough that someone like me that doesn't get involved in these discussions has noticed the behavior. It's your right, of course, to push forward with the same behavior. But you will likely find that fewer members are going to want to engage you when it's clear that meaningful discussion is not on the table.
![Enlarge Image](https://i.imgur.com/4BIHX1z.jpg)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
- TheMix
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
/sigh
/shrug indeed
Let me try it a bit more plainly. I don't care about the content of your discussion with Unagi. Not at all. Not even a little. He asked for an impartial opinion (as in, someone not engaged in the discussion). I gave an opinion based on my impression. And though you may disagree, you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT OPINION I MAY HAVE. Do you understand that? I wasn't responding to the actual discussion. So posting a bunch of links, like you thought I'd actually go read up on it, doesn't make sense. What I saw was that you stated something, he asked you to clarify, and you got sarcastic. Disagree with that, fine. But that was my impression.
I don't know you. I didn't call you a hubristic dick. I commented on what you posted. And to me (again, it's my impression - you don't get to dictate what I feel), your response came across as dickish. If you want to apply that to everything you do, and are, then that's on you. I was reacting to one interaction.
As for the hubris... I don't know. You seem to either have a huge chip on your shoulder, or you appear to believe that you are better than everyone else on the forum. I've seen a lot of responses from you that make me shake my head. Like others, I honestly can't tell what your point is sometimes. But every time someone asks you to clarify, you double down. I'm not sure why that is such an offense to you. That someone might not have understood exactly what you meant.
But I suppose that is pointless. I see now that you don't care. You clearly don't care how others may perceive your actions. Go ahead and keep fighting that uphill battle. I'm sure that we are all in the wrong. Obviously there is nothing that you could be doing to trigger these responses.
Unagi, just to be clear, I agree with you.
/shrug indeed
Let me try it a bit more plainly. I don't care about the content of your discussion with Unagi. Not at all. Not even a little. He asked for an impartial opinion (as in, someone not engaged in the discussion). I gave an opinion based on my impression. And though you may disagree, you DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO TELL ME WHAT OPINION I MAY HAVE. Do you understand that? I wasn't responding to the actual discussion. So posting a bunch of links, like you thought I'd actually go read up on it, doesn't make sense. What I saw was that you stated something, he asked you to clarify, and you got sarcastic. Disagree with that, fine. But that was my impression.
I don't know you. I didn't call you a hubristic dick. I commented on what you posted. And to me (again, it's my impression - you don't get to dictate what I feel), your response came across as dickish. If you want to apply that to everything you do, and are, then that's on you. I was reacting to one interaction.
As for the hubris... I don't know. You seem to either have a huge chip on your shoulder, or you appear to believe that you are better than everyone else on the forum. I've seen a lot of responses from you that make me shake my head. Like others, I honestly can't tell what your point is sometimes. But every time someone asks you to clarify, you double down. I'm not sure why that is such an offense to you. That someone might not have understood exactly what you meant.
But I suppose that is pointless. I see now that you don't care. You clearly don't care how others may perceive your actions. Go ahead and keep fighting that uphill battle. I'm sure that we are all in the wrong. Obviously there is nothing that you could be doing to trigger these responses.
Unagi, just to be clear, I agree with you.
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
I do not disagree and I've done no such thing; quote me if I did, but I assure you that you're reading something into the tone of what I've posted here that was never intentional on my part.
You called me a dick in your first post here, and followed that up by falsely ascribing an assumption to me as "the height of hubris."
And again, I did no such thing.
I don't know where this is coming from, and do not feel that way at all. You've projected a variety of emotional states upon me that are simply incorrect. In your mind, I'm "offended and riled-up'" and "have a huge chip on my shoulder." Trust me, if I felt that way at all, my language gets a WHOLE lot saltier and more colourful. But if I have previously offended you in some way that gave you that impression, I humbly and unreservedly apologise, and certainly do not believe myself to be "better than everyone else on the forum."
Here's a clarification of empathetic paraphrasing, which helps impart a sincere attempt to understand:TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 6:29 pmI've seen a lot of responses from you that make me shake my head. Like others, I honestly can't tell what your point is sometimes. But every time someone asks you to clarify, you double down. I'm not sure why that is such an offense to you. That someone might not have understood exactly what you meant.
"Let me be sure I understand you correctly; you're thinking/feeling [X] because of [Y], is that right?"
Putting words and motives (especially inaccurate ones) into other people’s mouths ain't the same thing, and this was precisely what I felt Unagi was doing. I've been posting on forums of one sort or another since the earliest days of dial-up BBS's, so I just don't have much inclination to participate in the hackneyed routine of having someone misrepresent what I think or feel, and then destroy that misrepresentation. Which is why I answered the question, clarified that was not what I meant, and tried to leave it at that.
Last edited by Anonymous Bosch on Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:02 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
He did not call you a dick. He said you were being a dick. There's a huge difference. The prior is an attack on you; the latter is an attack on your behavior.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Quoting the relevant post directly:
If that ain't calling someone a dick, it's awful close to it.
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Again, with the words and the meaning.
"You were a dick in return" is your behavior. It is referring to a single event. "In that exchange your actions were those of a dick."
"You are a dick" is not referring to an event. That would be calling you a dick.
"You were a dick in return" is your behavior. It is referring to a single event. "In that exchange your actions were those of a dick."
"You are a dick" is not referring to an event. That would be calling you a dick.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Arguments like this are why we lost Afghanistan. ![Cat Fight! :tjg:](./images/smilies/catfight.gif)
![Cat Fight! :tjg:](./images/smilies/catfight.gif)
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
We were a dick.
(˙pǝsɹǝʌǝɹ uǝǝq sɐɥ ʎʇıʌɐɹƃ ʃɐuosɹǝd ʎW)
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Well, in that case, I totally should've taken it as a constructive compliment rather than a personal attack.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
It was an attempt at constructive criticism. A hope that maybe you'd have an introspective moment to wonder why you were being misunderstood; a chance to try explaining your stance again to help clear up any possible misunderstanding. I'm sure, however, that by now Unagi has moved on and no longer has any interest in trying to determine what your actual stance is.Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:30 pmWell, in that case, I totally should've taken it as a constructive compliment rather than a personal attack.![]()
And, unlike you, I don't actually have any skin in the game here. I have no interest in your sarcasm. Or your persecution complex. Or whatever it is that causes you to lash out. You complain about others, then you intentionally twist my words and make outrageous claims. And, please, do not post a quote by quote takedown to try and "prove" your point.
One more thing:
As someone once said:If that ain't calling someone a dick, it's awful close to it.
Please try to be consistent in your messaging. If it's good enough to apply to someone else, shouldn't it be good enough to apply to yourself?I know how to use words; if that were what I meant, I would have said so.
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Re: Afghanistan finally moves into the Lose column
Well, as the recipient -- to put it mildly -- it was less than persuasive.TheMix wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:52 pmIt was an attempt at constructive criticism.Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Tue Sep 07, 2021 10:30 pm Well, in that case, I totally should've taken it as a constructive compliment rather than a personal attack.![]()
One can but hope, because his invitation for impartial phallic constructive criticisms such as yours has done nothing but derail this thread.
Fair enough, allow me to rephrase: thank you so much for inserting yourself into this discussion to impartially insult me my behaviour as that of a dick, and sharing your worldly wisdom on considerate behaviour and engagement with fellow forum members.
![Wink ;)](./images/smilies/icon/wink.gif)
"There is only one basic human right, the right to do as you damn well please. And with it comes the only basic human duty, the duty to take the consequences." — P. J. O'Rourke