Octopus Overlords

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:32 pm
Roice recounted that Jiennah left disappointed. The president, she said, kept checking his watch

Schmitz said he grew agitated every time he saw Biden check his watch.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:28 pm The Elephants want to blame Biden, but he's the only president in the past 20 years who followed through on the promise to end it. Bush2. Obama, and Trump all knew the withdrawal would be a shit-show and kicked the can. I'm glad Biden got this out of the way early in his term.

America's chaotic, humiliating -- yet, at times, heroic -- final retreat from its defeat in Afghanistan will resonate for years after the last military jet lifted off from Kabul at 11:59 p.m. local time on Monday, ending the country's longest war.

The departing troops left somewhere between 100 and 250 Americans, tens of thousands of Afghans entitled to protection from former US comrades and an entire nation to their fates under fundamentalist Taliban rule -- along with an even more extreme faction of ISIS.
For them, the "forever war" is far from over.
But any sense that the US is free of consequences of a war in which it bled for 20 years is belied by the history of a country that exacts a fierce price from its former occupiers. And the trauma of the two weeks since the fall of Kabul have already left an indelible mark on Joe Biden's presidency, Washington's bitter politics and the reputation of America among its disappointed allies.

Biden can lay claim to having the guts to finally end a war that had long been lost but outlived the presidencies of three predecessors. This may resonate more widely in the future among voters than the Beltway critics of his withdrawal may appreciate. And the crush of other domestic challenges, including a worsening pandemic, could soon redirect the rare spotlight from what was until a few months ago often referred to as the "forgotten war."
But the pandemonium of the US retreat -- a humbling exercise that confounded everything Biden promised about a stable, honorable US exit -- stained the aura of competence he sold to the country in the last election and raised questions about his leadership, candor and capacity going forward to quell the nation's multiple crises. While his defenders claim he was being unfairly blamed for two decades of strategic failures in Afghanistan, the President surely authored his own postscript of incompetence and didn't predict the shockingly rapid collapse of the Afghan state and army.

<snip>

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:42 am One major prediction though - if/when the House falls next year this will be the thin basis for the impeachment of Joe Biden.

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:21 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:42 am One major prediction though - if/when the House falls next year this will be the thin basis for the impeachment of Joe Biden.

GOP want to replace Biden with the VP? They prefer the VP than Biden?

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 9:21 am

malchior wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:42 am One major prediction though - if/when the House falls next year this will be the thin basis for the impeachment of Joe Biden.

GOP want to replace Biden with the VP? They prefer the VP than Biden?

Victoria Raverna wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:32 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:38 am

malchior wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:33 am

Unagi wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 10:02 am

El Guapo wrote: ↑Mon Aug 30, 2021 9:39 am Do I understand the AP article linked earlier that the Taliban is backing the U.S. account (that the U.S. was targeting an active suicide bomber)?

That’s what it sounded like to me.

That was my read too. The family being killed is a potential consequence of conducting an airstrike in a dense population center. We will likely take excess risk against their welfare to get our people out safely at this point.

Raises the odds that the U.S. did hit the right target, though. While the Taliban and U.S. have some aligned interests at the moment (in terms of the U.S. leaving, and in terms of disliking the Islamic State), I still think they would take advantage of a strike against an innocent family to criticize the U.S..

Going to be a little funny if the U.S. and the Taliban become de facto allies against an Islamic State insurgency, though.

Did Taliban give US bad intel? US killed Afghans that helped US. Or this Afghan guy suddenly hate US and want to be a suicide bomber?

Shelstad explains, "The Army program consists of three maintenance levels: Unit level, intermediate level, and depot level maintenance. Unit and Intermediate Level is what we are authorized to accomplish at the AASF." The preventative maintenance daily (PMD) checks take place daily when the helicopter flies or every seven days if the helicopter is not flying.

The preventative maintenance services (PMS) checks are required every 40 flight hours; they take 15 to 20 man-hours and can generally be accomplished in one day with two technicians. There’s a host of other hourly and calendar driven service and inspections tasks, such as gearbox oil samples, battery checks, 30-day engine wash programs, 90-day corrosions checks, and the 120-hour inspection which takes two to three days and includes critical vibration checks of the engine high-speed shafts, tail rotor, and oil cooler fan.

Unit level also includes the phase maintenance inspection (PMI) which is a large check accomplished every 360 flight hours. Alternating between PMI 1 and PMI 2 with some common tasks, the PMI 1 is primarily focused on the cabin and tail section, while PMI 2 has a focus on the systems and components which are primarily located above the cabin, the main rotor, and tailboom.

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:35 pm And here I thought he'd be fine if we just kept him fed, watered, provided a strong internet connection, and turned him toward the sun every once in a while.

washingtonpost.com wrote:Enormous as it is, the number of people evacuated by air from Kabul since the end of July — about 122,000 — is not large enough. Thankfully, many thousands of American citizens, third-country nationals and Afghans who worked directly for U.S. and allied military forces or embassies made it out. But many thousands of people did not, including former U.S. interpreters and their families, and Afghans classified by President Biden and his administration as “vulnerable” — such as staff for U.S.-based nongovernmental organizations and women’s rights activists. As security worsened in the wake of a horrific terrorist attack at the airport last Thursday, and as U.S. troops prepared for their own departure on Monday, time and space ran out for these people. This is a moral disaster, one attributable not to the actions of military and diplomatic personnel in Kabul — who have been courageous and professional, in the face of deadly dangers — but to mistakes, strategic and tactical, by Mr. Biden and his administration.

Those left behind appear to include many local journalists who worked for U.S.-supported media such as the Afghan service of RFE/RL. Painfully emblematic, too, is the experience of the American University of Afghanistan, all but a few of whose roughly 4,000 students, faculty, alumni and employees remain in Kabul. AUAF was the signature U.S.-funded civilian institution in Kabul. The school symbolized not just the U.S.-Afghan relationship, but modernity itself. Therefore, it came under repeated and deadly attack from the Taliban, yet brave and determined women and men continued to teach and study there — until Kabul fell and the Taliban raised its flag over the campus. A last-ditch attempt to bus several hundred members of the university community to the airport ended in frustration Sunday, when it became clear that civilian rescue flights were ending. Now, university officials tell us, these — mostly young — Afghans are back in Kabul, feeling abandoned and afraid.

The Biden administration says they will not be forgotten. Plans already are being developed, officials say, for continued efforts to extract people. Nearly 100 nations, including the United States, issued a statement promising that their “citizens, nationals and residents, employees, Afghans who have worked with us and those who are at risk” will be able “to travel freely” outside Afghanistan, and that they “have received assurances from the Taliban” that this will be allowed.

Any “assurances” by the Taliban clash with statements their spokesmen made during the crisis that the United States was wrongly inducing Afghans to leave — not to mention the group’s record of murdering perceived enemies. Moreover, two permanent members of the U.N. Security Council that still have embassies in Kabul — Russia and China — conspicuously did not sign the U.S.-backed international statement. Their support would be needed to carry out one promising idea: French President Emmanuel Macron’s proposal for a U.N.-designated “safe zone” in Kabul from which to organize evacuations after Tuesday.

Secretary of State Antony Blinken said Sunday that the United States still has “significant leverage” over the Taliban. If so, the Biden administration must use it, relentlessly, until every Afghan with a legitimate claim to refuge has found it.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:55 pm Blackhawk maintenance

Shelstad explains, "The Army program consists of three maintenance levels: Unit level, intermediate level, and depot level maintenance. Unit and Intermediate Level is what we are authorized to accomplish at the AASF." The preventative maintenance daily (PMD) checks take place daily when the helicopter flies or every seven days if the helicopter is not flying.

The preventative maintenance services (PMS) checks are required every 40 flight hours; they take 15 to 20 man-hours and can generally be accomplished in one day with two technicians. There’s a host of other hourly and calendar driven service and inspections tasks, such as gearbox oil samples, battery checks, 30-day engine wash programs, 90-day corrosions checks, and the 120-hour inspection which takes two to three days and includes critical vibration checks of the engine high-speed shafts, tail rotor, and oil cooler fan.

Unit level also includes the phase maintenance inspection (PMI) which is a large check accomplished every 360 flight hours. Alternating between PMI 1 and PMI 2 with some common tasks, the PMI 1 is primarily focused on the cabin and tail section, while PMI 2 has a focus on the systems and components which are primarily located above the cabin, the main rotor, and tailboom.

Holman wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 3:55 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 12:55 pm Blackhawk maintenance

Shelstad explains, "The Army program consists of three maintenance levels: Unit level, intermediate level, and depot level maintenance. Unit and Intermediate Level is what we are authorized to accomplish at the AASF." The preventative maintenance daily (PMD) checks take place daily when the helicopter flies or every seven days if the helicopter is not flying.

The preventative maintenance services (PMS) checks are required every 40 flight hours; they take 15 to 20 man-hours and can generally be accomplished in one day with two technicians. There’s a host of other hourly and calendar driven service and inspections tasks, such as gearbox oil samples, battery checks, 30-day engine wash programs, 90-day corrosions checks, and the 120-hour inspection which takes two to three days and includes critical vibration checks of the engine high-speed shafts, tail rotor, and oil cooler fan.

Unit level also includes the phase maintenance inspection (PMI) which is a large check accomplished every 360 flight hours. Alternating between PMI 1 and PMI 2 with some common tasks, the PMI 1 is primarily focused on the cabin and tail section, while PMI 2 has a focus on the systems and components which are primarily located above the cabin, the main rotor, and tailboom.

They're going to need to burn a lot of flight hours just training pilots, and then they'll need to cannibalize vehicles to keep others flying.

I read today that the US rendered inoperable most or all of the vehicles left behind at Kabul.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 4:45 pm The hardship to the Afghani people, to our allies, and the national embarrassment is more the issue.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:57 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:35 pm And here I thought he'd be fine if we just kept him fed, watered, provided a strong internet connection, and turned him toward the sun every once in a while.

Well whose turn was it this week to water him and provide him with internet?

Damn it people, this is why we can't have nice forum members.

naednek wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 5:03 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:57 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:35 pm And here I thought he'd be fine if we just kept him fed, watered, provided a strong internet connection, and turned him toward the sun every once in a while.

Well whose turn was it this week to water him and provide him with internet?

Damn it people, this is why we can't have nice forum members.

damn, what did I miss.

wsj.com wrote:Mohammed, stranded in Afghanistan and hiding from the Taliban, makes a White House appeal: ‘Don’t forget me here.’



Thirteen years ago, Afghan interpreter Mohammed helped rescue then- Sen. Joe Biden and two other senators stranded in a remote Afghanistan valley after their helicopter was forced to land in a snowstorm. Now, Mohammed is asking President Biden to save him.

“Hello Mr. President: Save me and my family,” Mohammed, who asked not to use his full name while in hiding, told The Wall Street Journal as the last Americans flew out of Kabul on Monday. “Don’t forget me here.”

Mohammed, his wife, and their four children are hiding from the Taliban after his yearslong attempt to get out of Afghanistan got tangled in the bureaucracy. They are among countless Afghan allies who were left behind when the U.S. ended its 20-year military campaign in Afghanistan on Monday.

Mohammed was a 36-year-old interpreter for the U.S. Army in 2008 when two U.S. Army Black Hawk helicopters made an emergency landing in Afghanistan during a blinding snowstorm, according to Army veterans who worked with him at the time. On board were three U.S. senators: Mr. Biden, the Delaware Democrat, John Kerry, (D., Mass.) and Chuck Hagel, (R., Neb.).

As a private security team with the former firm Blackwater and U.S. Army soldiers monitored for any nearby Taliban fighters, the crew sent out an urgent call for help. At Bagram Air Field, Mohammed jumped in a Humvee with a Quick Reaction Force from the Arizona National Guard working with the 82nd Airborne Division and drove hours into the nearby mountains to rescue them, said Brian Genthe, then serving as a staff sergeant in the Arizona National Guard who brought Mohammed along on the rescue mission.

Mohammed spent much of his time in a tough valley where the soldiers said he was in more than 100 firefights with them. The soldiers trusted him so much that they would sometimes give him a weapon to use if they got in trouble when they went into tough areas, Mr. Genthe said.

“His selfless service to our military men and women is just the kind of service I wish more Americans displayed,” Lt. Col. Andrew R. Till wrote in June to support Mohammed’s application for a Special Immigrant Visa.

Mohammed’s visa application became stuck after the defense contractor he worked for lost the records he needed for his application, Mr. Genthe said. Then the Taliban seized Kabul on Aug. 15. Like thousands of others, Mohammed said he tried his luck by going to the Kabul airport gates, where he was rebuffed by U.S. forces. Mohammed could get in, they told him, but not his wife or their children.

Army veterans called lawmakers and issued dire appeals to U.S. officials for help. “If you can only help one Afghan, choose [Mohammed],” wrote Shawn O’Brien, an Army combat veteran who worked with him in Afghanistan in 2008. “He earned it.”

A White House official declined to comment, saying the administration couldn’t discuss individual cases for confidentiality reasons.

Alt News came across a tweet by Afghan news agency Aśvaka that posted a similar video of a helicopter over the Kandahar governor office. We got in touch with the channel via DM and it confirmed that the man was suspended from the helicopter to fix the flag on the governor’s building. “We have a team there, they have confirmed that the person was controlled and hanging from the helicopter to fix the flag at the governor’s building in Kandahar,” the channel told us.

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:12 pm

Holman wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:58 amtl;dr: If a GOPer is pushing a meme about the evacuation nearly anything, it's probably false.

reuters.com wrote:WASHINGTON, Aug 31 (Reuters) - In the last call between U.S. President Joe Biden and his Afghanistan counterpart before the Taliban seized control of the country, the leaders discussed military aid, political strategy and messaging tactics, but neither Biden nor Ashraf Ghani appeared aware of or prepared for the immediate danger of the entire country falling to insurgents, a transcript reviewed by Reuters shows.

The men spoke for roughly 14 minutes on July 23. On August 15, Ghani fled the presidential palace, and the Taliban entered Kabul. Since then, tens of thousands of desperate Afghans have fled and 13 U.S. troops and scores of Afghan civilians were killed in a suicide bombing at the Kabul airport during the frenetic U.S. military evacuation.

Reuters reviewed a transcript of the presidential phone call and has listened to the audio to authenticate the conversation. The materials were provided on condition of anonymity by a source who was not authorized to distribute it.

In the call, Biden offered aid if Ghani could publicly project he had a plan to control the spiraling situation in Afghanistan. “We will continue to provide close air support, if we know what the plan is,” Biden said. Days before the call, the U.S. carried out air strikes to support Afghan security forces, a move the Taliban said was in violation of the Doha peace agreement.

The U.S. president also advised Ghani to get buy-in from powerful Afghans for a military strategy going forward, and then to put a “warrior” in charge of the effort, a reference to Defense Minister General Bismillah Khan Mohammadi.

Biden lauded the Afghan armed forces, which were trained and funded by the U.S. government. “You clearly have the best military,” he told Ghani. “You have 300,000 well-armed forces versus 70-80,000 and they’re clearly capable of fighting well.” Days later, the Afghan military started folding across provincial capitals in the country with little fight against the Taliban.

In much of the call, Biden focused on what he called the Afghan government’s “perception” problem. “I need not tell you the perception around the world and in parts of Afghanistan, I believe, is that things are not going well in terms of the fight against the Taliban,” Biden said. “And there is a need, whether it is true or not, there is a need to project a different picture.”

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:40 am Who the heck was feeding him that information? 'The best army'. Good grief. Top to bottom a monumental fuckup. I'm almost ready to let Biden off the hook and just blame ... everything. We spend so much money on a national security apparatus that is just blatantly clown shoes.

El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 12:30 pm

malchior wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 11:40 am Who the heck was feeding him that information? 'The best army'. Good grief. Top to bottom a monumental fuckup. I'm almost ready to let Biden off the hook and just blame ... everything. We spend so much money on a national security apparatus that is just blatantly clown shoes.

I will say that even if you doubt the capacity of the Afghan military to fight, you're presumably not going to tell that to the Afghan president, if you're hoping that he'll keep fighting to the extent possible.

That said, if the Biden administration is saying that they overestimated the willingness of the Afghan military to fight, presumably someone should be fired whose job it was to keep track of that sort of thing.

Drazzil wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 8:34 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 6:12 pm

Funny thing is that when I came back from a vacation from mexico years ago I had co workers tell me I bore a passing resemblance to Pablo

stessier wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:35 pm And here I thought he'd be fine if we just kept him fed, watered, provided a strong internet connection, and turned him toward the sun every once in a while.

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:10 am
That's where I'm at. Losing a war is always going to be unpleasant, and it could have been handled better. But we evacuated well over 100k people, secured an agreement with the de facto new government to remove even more, and finally ended this thing.

Jeff V wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 5:56 pm

Kraken wrote: ↑Tue Aug 31, 2021 1:10 am
That's where I'm at. Losing a war is always going to be unpleasant, and it could have been handled better. But we evacuated well over 100k people, secured an agreement with the de facto new government to remove even more, and finally ended this thing.

Who exactly are the people left behind, and what was their role? If they are Haliburton stooges tasked with wringing the last few billions from the conflict and didn't have the sense to evacuate when the withdrawal was announced, that's on them. I'm pretty sure they aren't soldiers. Missionary/aid workers sticking it out to the bitter end? Commendable, but not very smart. Too many people waited until the last damn minute, and it sure isn't our President's fault. Perhaps they were under the delusion they would have more time, that the Afghan army would hold out longer than a handful of toddlers with cap guns, but still, they knew the US army wasn't going to be around to cover their ass, so why take chances.

sacbee.com wrote:
Behshta, 21, holds a school picture showing her youngest sister Neda, 9, second from left in top row, on Wednesday, Aug. 25, 2021, as she worries in their Arden Arcade bedroom whether her sisters will return from Afghanistan. She said the schools call every day asking when Neda, of Dyer-Kelly Elementary School and Sabrina, 15, of Encina High School, will return to class. The family explained that they are in hiding from the Taliban and cant get to the airport.

At least 24 Sacramento-area students are confirmed to be stranded in Afghanistan as turmoil continues in Kabul, according to school officials.

San Juan Unified school district staff said 24 students, down from from the initial estimate of 150 students, had not returned to campuses since the start of the 2021-2022 school year.

After reading The Sacramento Bee’s story about two students stranded overseas, staffers at Sacramento Congressman Ami Bera’s office contacted San Juan Unified and are working with the district to bring students back safely.

“Our office has been in close contact with the San Juan Unified School District, and have urgently flagged the students’ information with the State Department and Department of Defense. We have not received an update from the State Department or the DOD,” read a statement from Bera’s communications director Travis Horne.

It’s unclear when more Sacramento-area residents will board flights to return from Kabul. It’s been more than two weeks since Taliban leaders took control of country’s capital.

Evacuation flights ferried tens of thousands of people from Kabul before and after a bombing at the airport killed more than 170 people, including 13 service members. Marine Sgt Nicole Gee of Roseville was among US military service members killed.

A number of refugees will likely be resettled in Sacramento. The Sacramento region has long been one of the largest destinations for special visa holders. One out of every nine Afghan natives living in the U.S. resides in the Sacramento region. About 9,700 Afghan people live in Sacramento County, more than any other county in the U.S., according to census data. Another 2,000 live in Yolo, Sutter, Placer or El Dorado counties.

For weeks, people fleeing Afghanistan have been landing at Sacramento International Airport, a family or two at a time.

Alefroth wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 9:02 pm They were there visiting relatives. I wonder why they didn't get out.

sacbee.com wrote:Nine-year-old Nada and her 15-year-old sister, Sabrina, traveled to Afghanistan in July to be with their father in his final days living with terminal cancer. The two girls, students at Encina High and Dyer-Kelly Elementary in Arden Arcade, were with him when he died July 27.

Now, two weeks since Taliban leaders took control of Kabul and chaotic scenes of an airport evacuation spread around the world, the girls’ 21-year-old sister in Sacramento is struggling to bring them and their mother home.

“This morning they were crying,” their sister Behshta said in an interview Friday. “They want to go back to school.”

The mother and girls have been staying at a family member’s home in Kabul, unable to get to the airport and safely back to Sacramento. Behshta tries to speak to her two young sisters and mother by phone, letting them know she will try to help them return safely. Like many others around Sacramento, though, she’s struggling to make progress.

The Bee is not publishing the family’s last name to protect their identities out of concern for their safety in Afghanistan.

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:01 pm I’m not sure what to make of people sending kids to the region and then calling out their ‘missing from school’ emails — all on Biden.

Anonymous Bosch wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:27 pm

Unagi wrote: ↑Wed Sep 01, 2021 10:01 pm I’m not sure what to make of people sending kids to the region and then calling out their ‘missing from school’ emails — all on Biden.

The reason there are dozens of American students now stuck in Afghanistan is because the State Department told them in May that it was safe to travel there. So, that happened.

On April 27, 2021, the Department ordered the departure from U.S. Embassy Kabul of U.S. government employees whose functions can be performed elsewhere.

Travel to all areas of Afghanistan is unsafe because of critical levels of kidnappings, hostage taking, suicide bombings, widespread military combat operations, landmines, and terrorist and insurgent attacks, including attacks using vehicle-borne, magnetic, or other improvised explosive devices (IEDs), suicide vests, and grenades.

Terrorist and insurgent groups continue planning and executing attacks in Afghanistan. These attacks occur with little or no warning,

....

-Draft a will and designate appropriate insurance beneficiaries and/or power of attorney.
-Discuss a plan with loved ones regarding care/custody of children, pets, property, belongings, non-liquid assets (collections, artwork, etc.), funeral wishes, etc.
-Share important documents, login information, and points of contact with loved ones so that they can manage your affairs, if you are unable to return as planned to the United States. Consider signing a power of attorney.