[WW-Monty Python]Remus' first game - END ENGLISH WIN

[Remus West]

The arguments between ezmate and Grundbegriff were cracking me up. I knew one of you was going to get killed from it.

I think(and have since the beginning) that this game was very slanted towards the English winning. Not enough plain folks for the French to hide in, after the game start I realized that Cesare could come out the first night and scream "I am Maynard, Lance protect me" and he would have been untouchable. Of course he got wacked the first night while scanning Orinoco who got wacked the second night. The kill of Cesare is what gave the French any real shot at all imo.

ezmate's lynch also made me laugh. Kelric comes back just in time to get Lance killed after he had specifically asked to be allowed time to speak. Good stuff.

lessons learned for me:
As Moderator for game:
Limit the number of roled players.
Only use one "balance power" set.
-- I told this to Grund but the combo of Tim and Concorde/Dennis were meant to balance playing speed. Tim sped the game up a day, while Dennis and Concorde together slowed it down a full day. They screwed up balance of power though.
Limit the protector roll more.

As a player:
Kill Kraegor - its fun to mess with him but he is sneaky so if he is not on my side I want him dead.

Kill the quiet ones early. Again a bad guy got to live for a long while by not contributing. Quiet players only serve to give the bad guys a hiding spot.

[Grundbegriff]

I'm ready for another game. Someone go set one up.

Congrats on your ongoing winning streak!

[Remus West]

PR_GMR's whore

What can I say? Standards were *extremely* low back in those days!

Just shows why you should choose your whore BEFORE beginning the boozing part of the evening.

[Grundbegriff]

WHAT THE HELL IS WRONG WITH YOU PEOPLE?!?!

Why didn't y'all kill me? You should've known I'd avoid lynchification.

I kept trying to get you killed. Not enough people listened to me.

Yeah, but you were my teammate! I'm talking about the people who knew I was English!

[PR_GMR]

Here's how I found the last Frenchman was Lassr:

Lassr was easy. How did you make Kraegor?

I smoked Kraegor out when I posted a short post telling Remus I was going to PM him about something (which I did--I needed clarificaiton on the role of Concord). Immediately, Ralph and Lassr retracted their votes against me. Kraegor insisted in voting for me. At this point, I figured that the surviving Englishmen would cast their votes very carefully.. because they wouldn't want to kill any remaining Specials in the game. The only person who insisted in voting for me after I threw a tiny hint that I was a Special had to be French.... and thus, Kraegor stood out like a sore thumb.

[brettmcd]

shoulda tried harder brett!! i was really countin on you and ya let me down, man.

what was awesome is you kept makin my arguments for me. helped keep my hands clean in the "hang grund" debate

One question for the frenchies, I would have thought killing grund as soon as he said he was tim would have been the best bet, to give him less time to figure out who was french to blow up. Did you guys discuss that as an option?

[Remus West]

I'm ready for another game. Kelric go set one up.

mortoned

[Mr Bubbles]

Was a fun game.. Wish I could have continued farther along, but my history kind of played against me. I tried to push the lynch the quiet ones. Armyofone of course being innocent, but I think that stratagy is worth repeating.

I think the one thing to keep in mind, while analysis is important ultimately you have to pick the right people. People like Grund Ezmate are important for analysis, but going after one person benefits the guilty. People spent so long trying to lynch me that they really didn't learn much about anyone else that turn. You need to shift around. See how each person reacts to possible being lynched.

[Kelric]

I'm ready for another game. Someone go set one up.

Congrats on your ongoing winning streak!

Any idea what that streak is at?

[Kelric]

I'm ready for another game. Kelric go set one up.

mortoned

I like playing, why would I set one up?

[Kraegor]

I think(and have since the beginning) that this game was very slanted towards the English winning. Not enough plain folks for the French to hide in, after the game start I realized that Cesare could come out the first night and scream "I am Maynard, Lance protect me" and he would have been untouchable.

yeah it was an uphill climb, we had a good window to pull it off...but the nuking of usul while also removing ezmate and grund so quickly was crippling for our ability to hide.

One thing i would suggest is the removal of ANY sort of Dennis sniffing. that's just weak. Character built to be quiet..so let's bypass the rules by inverting the claim? CHEATERS!!!!

I'd agree i think the only reason it was close was because

1) we killed seer on night 1
2) Kelric immediately assumed some sorta vendetta which added some confusion
3) Bubbles just being...Bubbles...
4) Grund/Ezmate having differing strategic goals (where i just prodded at the sides, hehe)

Kill Kraegor - its fun to mess with him but he is sneaky so if he is not on my side I want him dead.

[Kraegor]

Here's how I found the last Frenchman was Lassr:

Lassr was easy. How did you make Kraegor?

I smoked Kraegor out when I posted a short post telling Remus I was going to PM him about something (which I did--I needed clarificaiton on the role of Concord). Immediately, Ralph and Lassr retracted their votes against me. Kraegor insisted in voting for me. At this point, I figured that the surviving Englishmen would cast their votes very carefully.. because they wouldn't want to kill any remaining Specials in the game. The only person who insisted in voting for me after I threw a tiny hint that I was a Special had to be French.... and thus, Kraegor stood out like a sore thumb.

? . I simply held my vote on you because I saw no reason to retract it. I had been pegging you beforehand with bolded votes the entire game. My behavior was consistant

so altho your logic got you to vote on me. I'd say ya just got lucky punk!

[Mr Bubbles]

3) Bubbles just being...Bubbles...

You bastard! I was playing a clean game.

[Grundbegriff]

3) Bubbles just being...Bubbles...

You bastard! I was playing a clean game.

I think your Giovanni Arnolfini avatar made you seem insidious.

[Remus West]

I'm ready for another game. Kelric go set one up.

mortoned

I like playing, why would I set one up?

Hey, I like playing too. Its only fair we move the "GM" duties around a bit.

One thing i would suggest is the removal of ANY sort of Dennis sniffing. that's just weak. Character built to be quiet..so let's bypass the rules by inverting the claim? CHEATERS!!!!

Yeah, I like the idea of that power but hadn't thought it through very far other than the game speed thing. As Grund noted I had put this together mostly out of whimsy. I think, were I to do something like that in the future, I would announce that power was out there but not allow anyone including the powered player to know who it was until they were lynched. You can not sniff out what no one knows.

[Lassr]

shoulda tried harder brett!! i was really countin on you and ya let me down, man.

what was awesome is you kept makin my arguments for me. helped keep my hands clean in the "hang grund" debate

One question for the frenchies, I would have thought killing grund as soon as he said he was tim would have been the best bet, to give him less time to figure out who was french to blow up. Did you guys discuss that as an option?

We figured he'd get lynched before he could know who to kill with his special power. You didn't press hard enough!

We were still trying to make sure we got Maynard, who knew we took him out early.

[Lassr]

I think(and have since the beginning) that this game was very slanted towards the English winning. Not enough plain folks for the French to hide in, after the game start I realized that Cesare could come out the first night and scream "I am Maynard, Lance protect me" and he would have been untouchable.

yeah it was an uphill climb, we had a good window to pull it off...but the nuking of usul while also removing ezmate and grund so quickly was crippling for our ability to hide.

One thing i would suggest is the removal of ANY sort of Dennis sniffing. that's just weak. Character built to be quiet..so let's bypass the rules by inverting the claim? CHEATERS!!!!

I'd agree i think the only reason it was close was because

1) we killed seer on night 1
2) Kelric immediately assumed some sorta vendetta which added some confusion
3) Bubbles just being...Bubbles...
4) Grund/Ezmate having differing strategic goals (where i just prodded at the sides, hehe)

Kill Kraegor - its fun to mess with him but he is sneaky so if he is not on my side I want him dead.

Yes, with the 2 English that couldn't be killed on the first try it really put us in a hole. It would have really altered the plan if we ha known that ezmate was lancelot. Wow, I thought Ralph was Lancelot how he kept talking about what lancelot should do. Thought he was hiding behind his own words.

I can't believe we hit Maynard on the first turn. Once Grund nailed Usul we were in desperation mode because we thought Lancelot was still alive. Turned out to be a smart move by ezmate not telling us who he was and taking one for the team.

After reading some of my other posts you start seeing some mistakes but you don't recognize as you type them it's only after several posts do you see the mistake. I think PR-GMR pointed out one.

Good game everyone.

[The Meal]

I think the one thing to keep in mind, while analysis is important ultimately you have to pick the right people. People like Grund Ezmate are important for analysis, but going after one person benefits the guilty. People spent so long trying to lynch me that they really didn't learn much about anyone else that turn. You need to shift around. See how each person reacts to possible being lynched.

Yeah, certain players didn't really add a thing to this game, either due to silence or by playing with a monorail mind. But despite the inherently unbalanced ruleset, this was a fun one to watch from above.

~Neal

[Grundbegriff]

I thought brettmcd was Lancelot. I suspected Maynard was dead. I had no idea who might be Concorde.

[brettmcd]

I think the one thing to keep in mind, while analysis is important ultimately you have to pick the right people. People like Grund Ezmate are important for analysis, but going after one person benefits the guilty. People spent so long trying to lynch me that they really didn't learn much about anyone else that turn. You need to shift around. See how each person reacts to possible being lynched.

Yeah, certain players didn't really add a thing to this game, either due to silence or by playing with a monorail mind. But despite the inherently unbalanced ruleset, this was a fun one to watch from above.

~Neal

Grund seemed quite french, especially after he got 2 english lynched with being wrong on them. And gambling to say he was Tim is something I think a savvy player like grund would try.

[Lassr]

It got so obvious that I was French at the End. I was desperate. I knew the only way we could win is if I got Lancelot lynched (which at the time I thought was Ralph). I was spewing allegations everywhere, but there was almost no way we were going to win so I kinda wanted to get it over with.

Taking out Cesare the first night was the only thing that kept us in the game as long as we did.

[Grundbegriff]

by playing with a monorail mind.

Grund seemed quite french, especially after he got 2 english lynched with being wrong on them. And gambling to say he was Tim is something I think a savvy player like grund would try.

In fairness to brettmcd,

(a) it was his first game, and he did a pretty good job-- he managed to stay alive to the end and to obfuscate his position in a relatively useful way; and

(b) I did drop a lot of hints that I was French to cast suspicion on myself.

I'm interested in knowing, btw, whether the French discussed killing PR_GMR before his coming out party.

[Kraegor]

It got so obvious that I was French at the End. I was desperate. I knew the only way we could win is if I got Lancelot lynched (which at the time I thought was Ralph). I was spewing allegations everywhere, but there was almost no way we were going to win so I kinda wanted to get it over with.

Taking out Cesare the first night was the only thing that kept us in the game as long as we did.

i had to resist the urge to send you a PM..."VOTE TO LYNCH ME DAMMIT!"

oh and with lancelot gone...things weren't as bad as they seemed (to us)

[Lassr]

[
I'm interested in knowing, btw, whether the French discussed killing PR_GMR before his coming out party.

No. In the last round with only me left I thought about it but I thought if Lancelot was still alive he might protect him. That's why I threw out the possibility of PR_GMR being French, as far fetched as it was, to put a little doubt in Lancelot's mind. In the end I decided to take out ArmyofOne and not risk not getting a kill at all.

[Lassr]

It got so obvious that I was French at the End. I was desperate. I knew the only way we could win is if I got Lancelot lynched (which at the time I thought was Ralph). I was spewing allegations everywhere, but there was almost no way we were going to win so I kinda wanted to get it over with.

Taking out Cesare the first night was the only thing that kept us in the game as long as we did.

i had to resist the urge to send you a PM..."VOTE TO LYNCH ME DAMMIT!"

oh and with lancelot gone...things weren't as bad as they seemed (to us)

that is so true. If we'd known about Maynard and Lancelot we could have been taking out the ones we were trying to get lynched.

I knew I was screwed when the vote went your way before I could vote. I was going to vote for you but I wanted it to look like I was trying to get some valid info from PR-GMR before I did. Then Grenard (was it Grenard?) jumped in a voted before I even had a chance! casting my vote then would have looked even worse.

[Kraegor]

what's funny to me is that i think if you had pointed a finger at ralph you would have been better off. PR_GMR did not consider you french before then, Ralph was a normal. (I also figured ralph was lancelot)

Mighta had a shot at swingin the vote at him. better odds than concorde. pure b.s. conjecture of course.

and yeah it's like Chris' only goal in this game was to kill me...sure i'm paranoid.....uh huh...his one analysis accuses me...his major vote...to lynch me...

[Kraegor]

I thought brettmcd was Lancelot.

ROFL. considering the key ingredient for your #3 timplan. that's just beautiful. (referring to how i imagine you musta been frustrated with brett/lancelot refusing to protect you)

edit2: and now i realize that the real lancelot (ezmate) also didnt trust you...hehe

LAUNCELOT: We were in the nick of time, you were in great peril.
GALAHAD: I don't think I was.
LAUNCELOT: Yes you were, you were in terrible peril.
GALAHAD: Look, let me go back in there and face the peril.
LAUNCELOT: No, it's too perilous.
GALAHAD: Look, I'm a knight, I'm supposed to get as much peril as I can.
LAUNCELOT: No, we've got to find the Holy Grail. Come on!
GALAHAD: Well, let me have just a little bit of peril?
LAUNCELOT: No, it's unhealthy.

[Kraegor]

yes. i'm done editing that post....

<waiting vanguard patch download........>

[Lassr]

what's funny to me is that i think if you had pointed a finger at ralph you would have been better off. PR_GMR did not consider you french before then, Ralph was a normal. (I also figured ralph was lancelot)

Mighta had a shot at swingin the vote at him. better odds than concorde. pure b.s. conjecture of course.

I actually was going in that direction. I threw out that wild PR_GMR is french accusation but did state that I didn't think it was true just something to think about before we started worshiping his word.

I think I mentioned later that I thought Ralph or Brettmcd was the last French...or did I edit that out of my post...

edit: no, it's still there. You know I thought I could play the Dennis strategy with PR_GMR. I was serious when I thought it would make sense to lynch PR_GMR since he would get better. I mean what if I turned out to be Lancelot!

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Going into the last few turns, I thought brett was Lancelot also. At the same time, I wanted others to think that I might be Lancelot to avoid getting killed. Apparently that worked somewhat.

It seemed pretty obvious that Maynard was dead. I think you guys made a mistake in killing Armyofone, though. If he had been alive and you had killed someone like PR_GMR instead, I think that you might have had better luck throwing some suspicion his way.

[Remus West]

Lassr's last kill notice admitted his desperation. I was really hoping he would go the ultimate desperate move and claim to be Lancelot. I thought it would be funny to watch what happened when no one contradicted him.

[Lassr]

Lassr's last kill notice admitted his desperation. I was really hoping he would go the ultimate desperate move and claim to be Lancelot. I thought it would be funny to watch what happened when no one contradicted him.

I thought about it but I was so damn sure Ralph was Lancelot!

[Lassr]

ewhat.

It seemed pretty obvious that Maynard was dead. I think you guys made a mistake in killing Armyofone, though. If he had been alive and you had killed someone like PR_GMR instead, I think that you might have had better luck throwing some suspicion his way.

I actually had typed PR_GMR in the PM to Remus then at the last moment decided that you would probably trust him (since everyone followed his Kraegor vote) and protect him. Then I'd waste a kill. I figured ArmyofOne was not lancelot and would not be protected.

[Remus West]

the only player who was ever protected was ChrisGrenard once he was revealed as Dennis. Ezmate was really trying to be careful until Maynard came forward, at least that was my interpretation.

I had sort of thought of Lancelot as a polish mine detector. Come out and announce "I'm Lancelot" I am going to protect X tonight. If you die and do not take anyone with you then the crowd knows they have a French. If you do not die the crowd knows they have an English.

[Lars]

I'm ready for another game. Someone go set one up.

Hmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm..................

[Kelric]

I think the French wasted a few kills. They took out guys that were more unknowns than some they left alive. As a bad guy, it usually seems to be better to take out guys that people have more information on. Sows confusion and all that.

[Lassr]

I think the French wasted a few kills. They took out guys that were more unknowns than some they left alive. As a bad guy, it usually seems to be better to take out guys that people have more information on. Sows confusion and all that.

In hindsight, yeah.

We wanted to make sure we got Maynard so we avoided the specials that we knew of...we knew Tim would have to be taken out soon but we also knew he was going to get lynched. When he was about to get it he got lucky by taking out UsulofDoom.

[brettmcd]

I think the French wasted a few kills. They took out guys that were more unknowns than some they left alive. As a bad guy, it usually seems to be better to take out guys that people have more information on. Sows confusion and all that.

In hindsight, yeah.

We wanted to make sure we got Maynard so we avoided the specials that we knew of...we knew Tim would have to be taken out soon but we also knew he was going to get lynched. When he was about to get it he got lucky by taking out UsulofDoom.

Thats why I think you should have taken him out as soon as he said he was tim. When he had the least amount of information about who to take out, and the most innocent targets around.

[Grundbegriff]

we knew Tim would have to be taken out soon but we also knew he was going to get lynched.

Turns out you were wrong about that, eh?

When he was about to get it he got lucky by taking out UsulofDoom.

Luck had nothing to do with it. Usul had been on my shortlist for a long time.

[Kraegor]

we knew Tim would have to be taken out soon but we also knew he was going to get lynched.

Turns out you were wrong about that, eh?

When he was about to get it he got lucky by taking out UsulofDoom.

Luck had nothing to do with it. Usul had been on my shortlist for a long time.

precisely. but which is why i wanted you hung when ezmate and bubbles were still around!!!

With 2 englishman that could die twice. Lancelot the unkillable. Tim the magnificient...it was fairly obvious the french had work to do. My own viewpoint was to try and use every shortcut we could get. One of those shortcuts was Tim blowing up the wrong target.

Concorde i figured would just get to live to the bitter end. Lencelot was the wildcard i couldnt figure out. I was Too dense to consider we had hung him. Ezmate played that one pretty cool.

the only major mistake was killing chaos, imo. Chaos alive would have been a lynch target with grund and ezmate gone... But i thought he was maynard!

About killing knowns, yeah it's a good point. I learned bout the killing knowns thing in the LarsWolf game with Remuscide in control. Towards the end Knowns snowball on ya. Guess just gotta get over seerfear. Just like the good guys gotta get over seerhope, eh?