Wow Battlegrounds Part II Posted

[docvego]

Blizzard has posted Part 2 of the Battlegounds Preview

[Toe]

I don't know, I am just not getting a cozy feeling after reading all that. I mean it sounds interesting, but also complex. I would just as soon have a fort at one end of the zone, a fort at the other, and some controllable towers inbetween.

I also really am worried about the apparent cap that will be imposed. If i want to PvP in the battlegrounds, then that is what I want to do, not get on "the list" and have to wait my turn. Ugh, that sounds sucky. Will make PvE grouping outside of the BGs more difficult (Your group's priest halfway into an instance: "I am next in the BG que. Laters! ~activates hearthstone~"), and hooking up with your friends and going to the BGs together as well.

[IceBear]

I didn't read the article, but is the "list" to help with the huge difference in numbers between Alliance and Horde? If there was no cap then the Alliance would overwhelm Horde just by numbers on the battlegrounds.

[Jag]

I didn't read the article, but is the "list" to help with the huge difference in numbers between Alliance and Horde? If there was no cap then the Alliance would overwhelm Horde just by numbers on the battlegrounds.

Agreed, it also may help limit lag by regulating the # of players.

[LawBeefaroni]

The article stated that the cap was to keep team balance, reduce lag, and keep general balance. They make heavy use of NPCs it looks like. Having too many PCs on both sides would render the NPCs useless and break the battleground so far as Bliz have envisioned them.

The one thing I didn't get was the part about post-victory. Ok, so the winning side controls the battleground and gets to run around exploring and popping off any losers who aren't hiding in caves or wherever. But it also said that only the losing side's main town/stronghold gets rebuilt for the next battle. The winning side maintains control of the towers, mines and GYs? Doesn't sound right.

Lemme see...

Battlegrounds, though, are a dynamic system, and so the conflicts therein will continue to rage back and forth even after a winner is declared. For the next few hours after your side scores a victory, the opposition will have no NPC troops to help them. That will give you greater control over the zone and the ability to fully explore Alterac Valley with confidence.

Enemy players might choose to resurrect in the tunnels leading into Alterac Valley and harass your side's players, but as the entire zone will be firmly in your control, it will be difficult for any opposing players to mount any sort of effective counterattack. Instead, they will have to wait for their base to rebuild itself.

A little while after it gets razed, the destroyed base will begin to slowly rebuild itself. Players can significantly reduce the reconstruction time, though, by capturing the nearby mine and delivering supplies between the mine and the base. Control of the Battleground will revert back to a contested status, and the battle for Alterac Valley will commence once again. However, mines, towers, and graveyards will remain under the victor's control, and will need to be retaken.

Sounds like one side would stay the loser for a long, long time.

EDIT: Or does the next "Battleground" not really start until hours later?

[Exodor]

So are Battlegrounds instanced? I got that impression from the first preview but not from the second.

Of course, the first preview talked about "quests for lower level players" while the second specifically that Battlegrounds are for high-level characters only.

[The Preacher]

So are Battlegrounds instanced? I got that impression from the first preview but not from the second.

Of course, the first preview talked about "quests for lower level players" while the second specifically that Battlegrounds are for high-level characters only.

No, I think that Alterac Valley and the other initial bg's will be high level but that they plan to establish lower level bg's as well. At least that was the impression that I got.

I'm not sure if the bg's are fully instanced but there will be a lot of control over them (e.g. size limits and the teleportation into them).

[docvego]

the second specifically that Battlegrounds are for high-level characters only.

From the Writeup:

Alterac Valley is a zone for high-level players, which means those who are at or near the level cap. Rest assured we do not plan to restrict Battlegrounds to the highest-levels of players, so there will be more accessible Battlegrounds for lower levels. However, at least initially, only very high-level players will be able to contest the Battleground in Alterac Valley.

[morlac]

I don't know, I am just not getting a cozy feeling after reading all that. I mean it sounds interesting, but also complex. I would just as soon have a fort at one end of the zone, a fort at the other, and some controllable towers inbetween.

I also really am worried about the apparent cap that will be imposed. If i want to PvP in the battlegrounds, then that is what I want to do, not get on "the list" and have to wait my turn. Ugh, that sounds sucky. Will make PvE grouping outside of the BGs more difficult (Your group's priest halfway into an instance: "I am next in the BG que. Laters! ~activates hearthstone~"), and hooking up with your friends and going to the BGs together as well.

Ugg...So I have to sit in a Que to get into the game then sit in another to get in the BG? That sounds fun . I need to hire a secretary to get all this going so when I get home from work ill be ready to actully play. Good luck getting some guild mates together for this.

From first article :
Lower-level players who wanted to contribute in other ways to the battle could also do so by undertaking PvP-related quests, such as capturing wolves or rams to provide mounts for cavalry charges, claiming a nearby mine and ferrying resources back to the main base to upgrade allied troops, or capturing enemy graveyards to lengthen the run back to the frontlines for revived adversaries.

From latest article :
However, at least initially, only very high-level players will be able to contest the Battleground in Alterac Valley.

Ahh well a bit of backtracking there I guess...not so excited anymore

[Zurai]

Ugg...So I have to sit in a Que to get into the game then sit in another to get in the BG? That sounds fun . I need to hire a secretary to get all this going so when I get home from work ill be ready to actully play. Good luck getting some guild mates together for this.

No, you don't have to just sit there and stare at the screen. The article clearly states that you can go off and do whatever while you're in line for the BG and you'll be immediately summoned to the instance when your number is up.

The one thing that isn't clear to me is whether there's a SINGLE battleground instance or whether there's as many as both sides can fill. I KNOW for a fact that the battlegrounds are on an instance server; the blizzard posters have mentioned that several times, and the portal to the first BG is already in game - it's a big red instance portal. However, it could well be that there's only the one available instance of the battleground, rather than the effectively infinite number of the instanced dungeons. I personally wouldn't like that, but I also suspect Blizzard wouldn't limit it that way; they said the cap will be comparatively small, and I don't think they'd make battlegrounds so that only 100 people could play on them at any one time. That seems like a lot of wasted effort to me.

As for the rebuilding of the base after it's destroyed... that made sense to me. It's just like any other instance, there's nothing forcing you to leave after you "win" it. For either side. As long as it's not one single instance, it won't really make any difference as far as winability.

[Sterling]

I'm quite excited. Sounds a lot like DoA or Tides of Blood from WC3 on battlenet, which were both great fun to play. The queues don't scrare me either, Blizzard showed they can use queues well when matching up players in WC3 for games. You'd have to wait a few seconds, sure, but it wasn't too bad most of the time.

[morlac]

No, you don't have to just sit there and stare at the screen. The article clearly states that you can go off and do whatever while you're in line for the BG and you'll be immediately summoned to the instance when your number is up.

But isnt that waiting? I mean if log in and all I want to do is goto the BG to kill alliance and theres a que i'll be waiting to play..right? I cant really run off and join a group for an instance if i might get summoned in 20 minutes. Ditto going to any quest that isnt easy and in immdeiate area.
I suppose I could hang out at the AH and WAIT till I get summoned. But then I'd just be staring at the screen.

edit to add:
Evryone loves to label this game a "casual" mmorpg that can be played effectivly in small chunks. I would love to log in and jump in a BG for a half hour before dinner. These latest comments dont make that seem possible. Good thing I love "regular" PVP

[Zurai]

But isnt that waiting? I mean if log in and all I want to do is goto the BG to kill alliance and theres a que i'll be waiting to play..right? I cant really run off and join a group for an instance if i might get summoned in 20 minutes. Ditto going to any quest that isnt easy and in immdeiate area.
I suppose I could hang out at the AH and WAIT till I get summoned. But then I'd just be staring at the screen.

edit to add:
Evryone loves to label this game a "casual" mmorpg that can be played effectivly in small chunks. I would love to log in and jump in a BG for a half hour before dinner. These latest comments dont make that seem possible. Good thing I love "regular" PVP

Everyone seems to be taking the queues as if they're going to be some horrid hours-long line. I highly doubt that'll be the case. At least for the Horde, who are drastically outnumbered on quite a few of the servers.

And it IS a casual MMORPG that can be played effectively in small chunks. No one EVER said that EVERY bit of content would be playable in small chunks, however.

[Toe]

But isnt that waiting? I mean if log in and all I want to do is goto the BG to kill alliance and theres a que i'll be waiting to play..right? I cant really run off and join a group for an instance if i might get summoned in 20 minutes. Ditto going to any quest that isnt easy and in immdeiate area.
I suppose I could hang out at the AH and WAIT till I get summoned. But then I'd just be staring at the screen.

edit to add:
Evryone loves to label this game a "casual" mmorpg that can be played effectivly in small chunks. I would love to log in and jump in a BG for a half hour before dinner. These latest comments dont make that seem possible. Good thing I love "regular" PVP

Everyone seems to be taking the queues as if they're going to be some horrid hours-long line. I highly doubt that'll be the case. At least for the Horde, who are drastically outnumbered on quite a few of the servers.

And it IS a casual MMORPG that can be played effectively in small chunks. No one EVER said that EVERY bit of content would be playable in small chunks, however.

That, IMHO, is a cop-out. For many PvP is the "end-game". Being forced to wait in a queue to fight foes is lame any way you slice it. And to add to that, most people who want to PvP at end-game do so with their friends. This queue thing pretty much screws that all to hell.

[Zurai]

How so? Again, people are ASSUMING how it's going to work. All they've said is that there'll be queues if one side has too many people in the battleground, to even it up.

I assure you it would be far worse if every battleground had the Horde outnumbered 4:1 like it would be without these queues.

All the queues are is this:
Let's say there's a 40 person cap per side per battleground instance.
Let's also say that the instance is coded such that it will only let one side have 5 more players than the other side.
So, the new battleground opens up and everyone flocks to Alterac. 40 horde players and 60 alliance players all attempt to go through the portal.
The 40 Horde and the first 45 alliance get to go through immediately; the Horde and first 40 Alliance all end up in the same instance, while the 5 remaining Alliance start a new instance. No more Alliance can join until at least one more Horde goes through the portal.
That's where the queue comes in.

EDIT: Let me clarify that this too is working off a pair of assumptions.
1) That there will indeed be multiple instances available and not one single battleground instance (IE, 10 groups of maximum size could all be in 10 different Alterac Valley battleground instances).
2) That the line works on a first-come, first-serve basis. This should be a fairly safe assumption.

[docvego]

I wouldn't expect the ques to be long. Once there are enough people on each side in line, I'd expect a new instance for the Battleground to go up. And even if they are long, I'd expect that you'd get some kind of time estimate so you know if you can go do a quest or should just go grind a few mobs for a minute.


And since I'm one of those people that thinks if you're going to complain about something at least do it constructivly, let's see Blizzard's Options:

1) Bliz Says, "You can join the Battleground whenever you want"
The Players say, "There are too many Alliance Players!".

2) Bliz Says, "For Team Balancing there will be a que"
The players say, "I want to play now"

3) Bliz Says, "If the 1st Instance is full you'll be immediatly ported to a new instance"
The players say, "I'm in a battleground with 3 People!"
or
"I have to stare at the screen in the battleground for 10 mins while the BG Populates"

No matter what option Bliz picks people will complain. I think the most important thing is how fun the Battlegrounds are. However, if there is a solution that is being overlooked I'm pretty curious as to what it is.

[morlac]

Thats all great and dandy, and as soon as they mention having multiple instances ill be fine. It'll still be a pain in the ass to get a whole group of buddies together. Then you'll also have people dropping from the one instance cause they're side is losing to hop another where they are not.

Edit : but then im becoming very bitter with my server going down again last night.