any published authors out there?

[shaggydoug]

Consulting the OO mind trust once again, I'm looking for information. My mom has informed me she wants to write a book and get it published. To further this goal, she has been told that one of the things she should do is actually write the book in software that supports "book form" that a publisher would not have to do a whole lot with thus reducing their work load and increasing her chances of getting it published. Anyone know of such a beast? To ask the obvious question: can this be done in plain old Word? Something more expensive like Publisher?

I'm probably going to get her a book on the subject of "getting yourself published". I looked at Amazon and saw a few titles. Anyone use one that they particularly like?

Note this is all the guise of Christmas gifts for her. Thanks for any help.

- shaggy

[Eduardo X]

Regardless of how she formats the book, she should still have somebody edit the book, and that is where a lot of the cost comes into play.

[Smoove_B]

While I'm not published, I do keep a copy of the Writers Marketplace at my desk.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 51-0756837

It's supposed to motivate me to actually get published, but instead it makes me feel sad inside.

[Eduardo X]

While I'm not published, I do keep a copy of the Writers Marketplace at my desk.

http://www.amazon.com/exec/obidos/ASIN/ ... 51-0756837

It's supposed to motivate me to actually get published, but instead it makes me feel sad inside.

Yeah, my copy of Poets Market sure does nothing about actually SENDING my poems to publications, dammit.

[McBa1n]

There are other things to consider

#1 - having an agent is great for getting a book pimped (but it costs money up front to do usually - especially without prior published works)

#2 - Publishers have several editors in house. While I advise having some hardcore editing done (obviously), I wouldn't farm it out for big bucks - I'd much rather prefer using that money on an agent. The publishing house WILL edit your book to their approval, anyway, regardless -- it's almost unheard of for a published work to NOT get chopped, except when it is self published.

#3 - Formatting for submission is almost irrelevant if it is in electronic form. The old 'industry' standard in the win 95 and earlier days was in .rtf format (because macs can also read that format -- which is what was the OS that was used to publish/format almost everything). It couldn't hurt to ask - perhaps even speak with someone that works at the place the book is being sent to.

#4 - Knowledge of publishers is VERY important. To be considered by independant publishers, you have to be within their genre.
Make sure to do some investigating.

If the work is quality, the fact the book isn't 'hardcore' edited down as much as possible is almost a null issue. Good books get published if they are picked up.


There's more, but I have to go.
GL!

[Jeff V]

I'd also recommend get the latest "Writer's Market" book. Not only does it help tell you who to send it to, but how. The book is essentially a FAQ for the entire profession.

[Kadoth Nodens]

Shaggy, I work at a publishing house and the only thing I would add is that you should never pay an agent to look your mom's work over. Agents that ask for a review fee rarely have any contacts within the industry. Odds are they'll just take your money and send your work to editors they've never met before.

[dfs]

I'm not a published novelist, but I am married to one. No you probably haven't read her. Yes you can buy her books at Amazon. If you hit the bookstore right by a release, you can even buy it there as well. So, your mom wants to write a book and get it published?

The first thing I would tell your mom is that if she can NOT write the book, then go ahead and not write the book. Prostitution and Drugs are both far more profitable and sane occupations. No lie.

If my wife had spent her hours of writing time at a McJob earning minimum wage, her hourly rate would have been much better than what she earns in publishing. Now, she would be poorer in other ways, but I'm sure there are several individuals here who can tell you not to write in order to make money. Almost all writers have some kind of part time day gig that pays the bills.

Still there?
The first question I would ask your mom is...what do you want to do?
The answer to her question depends on her answer to mine.

Do you want an e-book?
Do you want a vanity press?
Do you want a regional press?
Do you want a small national publisher?
Do you want a one of the big publishers?

If it's fiction and you want to move above the self published vanity press level, your mother will need an agent. If it's non fiction, she better have a darn good buisness case or be prepared to lose money. If it's a children's book, ....just stop her right now or tell her to self publish.

Just as a for instance.
My wife's "big publisher" wants a printout of her novels and will re-key the whole thing and set it through a copy editing cycle. This varies by house. A lot.

One of the irons in my wife's fires is a collection of short eposodic tales of statewide historical figures. Given our state's library and educational system, such a project could show a slight profit. Maybe a couple thousand dollars a year. That particular regional press wants a PDF file. Beyond her time, her initial investment would be about 10 grand.

A vanity press, where you pay them to print your books and then hand sell the result, will likely take anything you pay them to take. It's a very rare cat like this where the author ends up making money on the deal even before you factor in time. There is nothing inherently wrong with going this route.

At this point, E-books is to publishing what local cable acess is to HBO. If you can't get an agent or editor interested in what you are doing, it may not be that they can't recognize greatness. It's probably because you're stuff sucks and you need to write better.

[Guy Incognito]

I once submitted a poem to poetry.com and they published it. Plus they offered to let me pay them $50 for a copy of the book they published. Sorry, wish I knew more...

[Eduardo X]

I once submitted a poem to poetry.com and they published it. Plus they offered to let me pay them $50 for a copy of the book they published. Sorry, wish I knew more...

Not to rain on your parade, but poetry.com is a business more than a poetic website. They'll publish anything in order to get you to pay for the book they make out of it.
I thought I had made it big, too, being invited to the writer's conference, being selected for best of collections.
They just wanted me to pay for the weird things they publish.

[shaggydoug]

Thanks for all the info here. Keep it coming.

Regarding my mother's motivation, it's a therapeutic thing. Best to go with it at this time then rain on her parade.

- shaggy

[dfs]

That's good. If you can tell me more about WHAT it is, I can help you a bit more with appropriate gift suggestions.

[shaggydoug]

I'm not sure exactly what she is going to write about but I believe it about dealing with grief. My sister passed away about 5 years ago and she wants to write about how she dealt with it and continues to deal with it. I believe there is going to be a religious take on the subject. I would suspect a limited audience based on these conferences she goes to on the topic.

However, I still need to see if there some special software that she could use that would format the book into some kind of book form. I'm not sure what she means by that. I think she could just use Word and format it correctly. I got the impression that she thought it was something special.

I'm looking at getting her "The Complete Idiot's Guide to Getting Published" and some software as described above. However, I feel she is putting the cart before the horse but I need to just appease this at this time.

- shaggy

[Blackhawk]

If she wants an easier way in, a chance to exercise her creative muscles and get her name on something, but isn't in it for the money, then skip books and look at magazines. There are fiction magazines for every genre, plus hordes of technical publications. Whatever she writes, there is a magazine that publishes it.

It is easier to get in, doesn't involve spending two years on a single project that turns out to be unpublishable (you will still waste some time, just not in such huge chunks), and functions by working with a variety of writers. Furthermore, if she later decides to pursue a book, having a history of published writings is a huge plus. It is the answer to the 'Experience Preferred' question.

I'd love to do a book sometime. Thanks to Stratos I have a handful of author credits. Unfortunately, I am completely incapable of writing dialogue, so I'd have to stick to something technical.

[Blackhawk]

Oh, and I'm not sure what is meant by 'book form', either. Word is a professional writing tool, so whatever it is, I'm sure it is supported. Perhaps just get her working with MSWord Styles.

[driver]

I've published poems, fiction, and lots of marketing crap. Used to volunteer at one of those writer's conferences and was a first-read poetry judge so there was a lot of talk about publishing there.

I agree that Writer's Market is all she really needs. Each publisher probably has guidelines on how they would prefer manuscripts be submitted, if they even accept them, so before she invest an any "special" software, she should get her book in Word and format per submission.

Another option is to take her completed manuscript to a writing conference that publishers attend. I went to the one where Pam Houston was 'discovered' though that was years before. It's rare, but it may provide her good feedback.

I don't believe that she needs an agent if she is a new wrtier. That comes later - publishing her book at a small press and having success there is more likely to lead to publication by a more mainstream publisher than hiring an agent would, unless she wants to attempt broad publication first. But there are lots of samall religous presses out there that may not pay great but would get her message out.

Good luck to her!

[Giles Habibula]

I've heard that most publishers won't look at your stuff unless you have an agent.

And most agents won't look at you unless you've been published.

-------

And from the two actual authors I've actually spoken with (Colin Harrison and Dan O'Brien---both whose books have sold very respectably though not best-sellers), even selling decently they both said they still had to have their regular jobs to pay the bills. Being a consistent best-seller is almost a must if you want to make a good living at it.

Writing is done very much more for the love of writing rather than the money. I'd still like to get published someday though, even though it doesn't pay well. It would be a kick!

[Guy Incognito]

I once submitted a poem to poetry.com and they published it. Plus they offered to let me pay them $50 for a copy of the book they published. Sorry, wish I knew more...

Not to rain on your parade, but poetry.com is a business more than a poetic website. They'll publish anything in order to get you to pay for the book they make out of it.
I thought I had made it big, too, being invited to the writer's conference, being selected for best of collections.
They just wanted me to pay for the weird things they publish.

I was just posting about it to be funny I'm pretty confident my submission was horrid but I was young at the time and it seemed better.

One time in a conversation, a girl did start bragging about how she was "published" and I was initially impressed. After asking where, I came to find out poetry.com had published her twice.

[Eduardo X]

I once submitted a poem to poetry.com and they published it. Plus they offered to let me pay them $50 for a copy of the book they published. Sorry, wish I knew more...

Not to rain on your parade, but poetry.com is a business more than a poetic website. They'll publish anything in order to get you to pay for the book they make out of it.
I thought I had made it big, too, being invited to the writer's conference, being selected for best of collections.
They just wanted me to pay for the weird things they publish.

I was just posting about it to be funny I'm pretty confident my submission was horrid but I was young at the time and it seemed better.

One time in a conversation, a girl did start bragging about how she was "published" and I was initially impressed. After asking where, I came to find out poetry.com had published her twice.

I got another email today from Nobel House, a UK publisher who saw my poetry and just HAD to publish it in the UK. And, of course, they want $50.
I think poetry.com is the worst website in the world, falsely getting people's hopes up just to make money.

[LawBeefaroni]

Shaggy, looking at what she wants to write, it sounds like a specialty (religious, maybe self-help) press or maybe self publish. If attempting to make any money (read: break even), the former is the best bet. If she just wants to get the book out there, either would work but self publishing costs a lot of money.

She needs to outline the book, select her target audience, and figure out what kind of publishers would be likely to take it on. The books mentioned above should explain how to do that. Also, do a search on Amazon books for "grief" and "grief religion." There are a lot out there, you can get an idea for who publishes them, pricing, length, etc.

As for software, Word is fine. You can save as RTF, txt, doc, etc. Until you know exactly who the work is going to for editing/publishing, there's no point in picking a format. Word (or OpenOffice) leaves your options open with the basics covered.