Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by McNutt »

They think he got it from THC vaping juice. Are their legal THC vaping juices in certain states, or is that all black market?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

There are stores where it's legal that have sold (presumably reliably sourced) THC vape cartridges, and people using them have become sick. Many have not (to ND's point). The problem is that it's the Wild West out there right now so truly the best message is that until the CDC can figure out what's happening people should not be vaping.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by morlac »

I have only gotten them from Cali medicinal shops. I believe they are the most stringent for testing and the label reflected as such. It had more labels and test results on it than prescribed pills. Wild West analogy is apt as they really need a universal standard for it. If they would just legalize it federally already we could get on with it.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

Saw a streamer a few minutes ago. She was just chatting and having to clear her throat every other sentence. She sounded like she had mucus in her throat. While sitting there she was refilling her vape then hitting it...and clearing her throat. Maybe she has a cold or allergies but I just sat shaking my head and changed streams.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by noxiousdog »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 1:45 pm More to that,I'm waiting to see how a study out of Canada is reported by the media, namely that it seems one vaping teen has popcorn workers lung:
This case of severe acute bronchiolitis, causing near-fatal hypercapnic respiratory failure and chronic airflow obstruction in a previously healthy Canadian youth, may represent vaping-associated bronchiolitis obliterans. This novel pattern of pulmonary disease associated with vaping appears distinct from the type of alveolar injury predominantly reported in the recent outbreak of cases of vaping associated pulmonary illness in the United States, underscoring the need for further research into all potentially toxic components of e-liquids and tighter regulation of e-cigarettes.
It's yet another lung injury that is distinct from what's been observed here and instead similar to an occupational exposure to diacetyl.

If nothing else, it complicates the message and underscores that multiple chemicals could be (can be) responsible for a short-term medical crisis.
Again, this is fairly well known. Note the article is from 2016.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

Sometimes I think a lot of the chemicals and additives used in lots of stuff is simply a way to get rid of stuff from other processes and to make a little money off otherwise unused crap when there are better and safer yet more expensive things to use out there. Wow that was a run on sentence my teacher warned me about.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:51 pmAgain, this is fairly well known. Note the article is from 2016.
Right it was known that some random eCigarette pods contained them. What was unknown was how widespread the issue was and to what level the chemical was being dispensed. This case from Canada is the first known link between diacetyl in vapor and a lung condition developing. Who knows how many other people had issues that were never correctly diagnosed or are instead slowly damaging their lungs. One of the articles I read last week was saying a doctor could not get his patient to admit they were vaping, despite problems with their lungs. I have no doubt that's another factor complicating all this.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by noxiousdog »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 5:07 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 4:51 pmAgain, this is fairly well known. Note the article is from 2016.
Right it was known that some random eCigarette pods contained them. What was unknown was how widespread the issue was and to what level the chemical was being dispensed. This case from Canada is the first known link between diacetyl in vapor and a lung condition developing. Who knows how many other people had issues that were never correctly diagnosed or are instead slowly damaging their lungs. One of the articles I read last week was saying a doctor could not get his patient to admit they were vaping, despite problems with their lungs. I have no doubt that's another factor complicating all this.
I disagree.
February 1, 2019 wrote: In the study, published Friday in Scientific Reports, researchers from Harvard’s T.H. Chan School of Public Health show that diacetyl, together with a similar chemical called 2,3-pentanedione, can impair the function of the lungs when it’s inhaled. Flavoring chemicals are found in over 90 percent of commercially marketed flavored e-cigarettes, and of those chemicals, diacetyl, is the most common, the authors report. 2,3-pentanedione is used as a substitute in e-liquids, they add, likely because diacetyl is associated with popcorn lung. The European Union banned diacetyl in vape liquids in 2016.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

And from the actual study:
According to our RNA-Seq results, expression of KRT4, KRT13, KRT14, and KRT16 were upregulated with diacetyl or 2,3-pentanedione treatment (Tables 1 and 2). Although the role of these keratins in lung diseases is not clear, further studies are necessary to evaluate their involvement on toxicity of flavoring chemicals in lung epithelium. Additionally, the interplay between cytoskeleton and ciliary function should be taken into consideration in future investigations because microtubule cytoskeletons of the cilium play critical roles in the regulation of cilium structure and function
In short - diacetyl is doing something, but we don't exactly know what (my addition) because there's no standardization of diacetyl in eCigarettes. Workers in factories? We can lower their exposure. Someone buying a random vape pod? Good luck.

Moreover:
As the first line of defense in the lung, bronchial epithelium metabolizes foreign compounds to facilitate the elimination of the foreign substance by a set of broad specificity enzymes capable of introducing new functional groups (Phase I reactions), or conjugating with charged molecules, to increase its water solubility (Phase II reactions)63. PAPSS mediates the synthesis of PAPS that is the universal sulfate donor for Phase II sulfation reaction64. Downregulation of PAPSS may lead to deficit in available sulfate donors and interfere with sulfation reactions. Therefore, exposure to the flavoring compounds may impair detoxifications of xenobiotics in the lung epithelium increasing susceptibility to toxicant exposure in the lung.
In short, are these chemicals directly making people sick or are they screwing with basic life/immunological processes and increasing risk for other diseases?

It's a good study though - I hadn't seen it. I was kinda busy in February. :D
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Z-Corn »

Michigan has halted the sale of cannabis vape products until they can be pulled from the shelf and tested for the presence of Vitamin E acetate.

Nine days before recreational sales were to commence. Huh...
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by noxiousdog »

Freakonomics is the lasted podcast to do an episode

I haven't quite finished the episode but among the good data, it highlighted one of my issues.

America's Puritanical culture defines everything as binary. It's either good or it's bad. The result is that people still do bad things, but since it's been defined as bad it therefore needs to be illegal and it can no longer be regulated.

Vaping is an example. Since vaping is bad, we can't regulate the amount of nicotine. To regulate would make it ok. Hence, Juul has extra nicotine 52mg/ml and addicts children (who of course can't actually buy it because it's illegal) and as a response, 37% of teens vape. If a candidate ran on regulation, they'd be vilified because vaping is bad!

In Britain, it's national health policy that vaping is a smart alternative to smoking. It's a gray area so it can be regulated. As a result, vaping can only have 20mg/ml of nicotine making it not so addictive and only 2% of teens vape.

We do this with all kinds of vices. Drugs, prostitution, gambling, etc. They are all illegal and they all continue unabated with negligible (if any) regulation.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

New update:
"I think it's fair to say that the new study adds to the evidence saying vaping e-cigarettes is harmful to the lungs," Tarran says.

The findings come from a study published in the American Journal of Preventive Medicine. Researchers tracked new lung disease among people who smoke and vape.

"We started out with people who didn't have any diagnosis of respiratory disease," explains researcher Stanton Glantz, a professor of medicine at the University of California, San Francisco. Then they followed the participants for three years.

During that time, the risk of developing lung disease among people who used combustible products, such as cigarettes, more than doubled.

In addition, the researchers documented what seems to be an independent effect of vaping. They found that people who used only e-cigarettes had about a 30% increased risk of developing lung disease, compared with people who didn't use any nicotine products.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

Dont think that study included non additive vaping. Just vaping mist and nothing in it.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

...and people just vape...vape?
just vaping mist and nothing in it.
I am not an expert, but I don't think this is possible. You can purchase "vape juice" that doesn't have nicotine, but there are still flavorings and additives in them. But I guess you're technically correct - the attention right now is focused on vaping with nicotine or possible marijuana added. Regardless, I'd be amazed if the delivery juice was completely and totally harmless in all this.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Z-Corn »

I vape over my stove using a tea kettle and a straw. Totally pure that way.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Z-Corn wrote: Wed Dec 18, 2019 2:10 pm I vape over my stove using a tea kettle and a straw. Totally pure that way.
I sometimes sniff at steaming tea.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Just stay away from the microwave popcorn.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

I used to sniff new pc gaming magazines and newly opened pc games boxes. Nothing like the smell of a new game opened. I miss that. Digital isn't the same :P
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Smoove_B »

Outbreak has likely peaked:
The U.S. Centers for Disease Control (CDC) announced Friday with new confidence that vitamin E acetate seems to be largely to blame for the vaping-related lung illness outbreak that swept the country—at the same time it announced the outbreak seems to be approaching its end.

As of the CDC’s latest update, 2,506 people in the U.S. and its territories have been hospitalized for “e-cigarette, or vaping, product use-associated lung injury” (EVALI), and 54 people have died. Most of these cases seem to have occurred in people who used products containing the marijuana compound THC, the majority purchased from black-market sources. Products spiked with the oily additive vitamin E acetate, which is sometimes used to stretch a product’s THC content, have been seen as the leading culprit.
It would appear that vitamin E acetate is the levamisole of the vape-pen marijuana black market world.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Dec 20, 2019 2:27 pm It would appear that vitamin E acetate is the levamisole of the vape-pen marijuana black market world.
You don't want your cokeheads to get worms, now do you?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Z-Corn »

Funny thing about levamisole, by all accounts it is added in the country of origin.

Why add an adulterant, i.e. step on that shit, before shipping? Why add bulk and weight so early in the supply chain?

Illuminati, that's why. :think:
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Isgrimnur »

Depends on what they’re invoicing. If they’re billing whole fat and shipping 2%, that’s padding the bottom line.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

Orange moron signed it into law.... No vaping or smoking until 21 years old

When I was young I thought 18 was too long to wait. I smoked from the time I was 14. Maybe this will help some lives but I dont agree with government control on everything I or others do. Its telling people...grown adults....you cant smoke until 21. You can drive, you can vote, you can work, and you can fuck and have kids but no smoking until you're old enough. Ive always felt the same on alcohol. Go join the military and kill people and get killed but no smoking or drinking there young feller.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Daehawk wrote: Sat Dec 21, 2019 4:48 pm Orange moron signed it into law.... No vaping or smoking until 21 years old

When I was young I thought 18 was too long to wait. I smoked from the time I was 14. Maybe this will help some lives but I dont agree with government control on everything I or others do. Its telling people...grown adults....you cant smoke until 21. You can drive, you can vote, you can work, and you can fuck and have kids but no smoking until you're old enough. Ive always felt the same on alcohol. Go join the military and kill people and get killed but no smoking or drinking there young feller.
What, no commission to study and eventually kill it? Big Vape must not have paid their bills.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Jeff V »

Did it matter to you when you were 14 that the law said 18? The only thing this changes is the ability for local police to extort fines from kids too young to indulge.

We had no trouble obtaining booze when I was in high school either. My first party got busted by the cops - we had 2 kegs, they made us dump the open one, and they took the unopened one never to be heard from again.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Daehawk »

Back when i was 14 though the department stores had the cigs and cartons on normal aisles in the back of the store. There were cig vending machines in tire stores and such. Gas stations didn't card you. Parents gave some of them to us. It was much easier then.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Isgrimnur »

NC
E-cigarette maker Juul agreed Monday to pay North Carolina $40 million and adjust its sales and marketing strategies to settle a lawsuit filed by the state.
...
In 2017, nearly 17 percent of all North Carolina high school students reported using an e-cigarette within the previous 30 days. Two years later, those numbers had risen to 28 percent.

A Juul spokesman said in a statement that the settlement is "consistent with our ongoing effort to reset our company and its relationship with our stakeholders."

Stein sued Juul two years ago, arguing that the company designed, marketed and sold its e-cigarettes to attract young people and misrepresented the potency and danger of nicotine in its products. Other states and school districts then followed North Carolina's lead. The Wake County Public School System is considering its own lawsuit against the company.

In an initial response to the lawsuits, Juul stopped selling dessert- and fruit-flavored e-cigarettes, as well as mint flavors, all of which were popular with teens.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Max Peck »

FDA forces all Juul products off the US market
The Food and Drug Administration this morning denied marketing authorization for all Juul products currently sold in the US, effectively shuttering the e-cigarette giant that once dominated the US market. The authorization denial specifically applies to the Juul device and the company's four types of Juul pods: Virginia tobacco flavored pods and menthol flavored pods, both at nicotine concentrations of 5.0 percent and 3.0 percent.

In a statement Thursday, the FDA said the reason for the denial was that Juul failed to provide sufficient toxicology data to demonstrate the products were safe. "In particular, some of the company’s study findings raised concerns due to insufficient and conflicting data—including regarding genotoxicity and potentially harmful chemicals leaching from the company’s proprietary e-liquid pods—that have not been adequately addressed and precluded the FDA from completing a full toxicological risk assessment," the FDA wrote.

Michele Mital, acting director of the FDA’s Center for Tobacco Products, added that it is Juul's responsibility to demonstrate to the FDA that its products meet all legal standards. "As with all manufacturers, Juul had the opportunity to provide evidence demonstrating that the marketing of their products meets these standards," Mital said. "However, the company did not provide that evidence and instead left us with significant questions. Without the data needed to determine relevant health risks, the FDA is issuing these marketing denial orders."

Juul must now immediately stop selling all its products, and any products currently on sale by retailers must be pulled. The marketing denial does not affect possession or use by consumers, only sales, the FDA notes.

In an emailed statement to Ars, Juul Chief Regulatory Officer Joe Murillo said the company disagrees with the FDA's decision and is exploring all of its options, including seeking a stay, appealing the decision, and engaging with the FDA.

"In our applications, which we submitted over two years ago, we believe that we appropriately characterized the toxicological profile of Juul products, including comparisons to combustible cigarettes and other vapor products, and believe this data, along with the totality of the evidence, meets the statutory standard of being 'appropriate for the protection of the public health,'" Murillo said.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Alefroth »

Am I to believe all other e-nicotine products meet the standards, or is Juul just an easy target?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Max Peck »

Technically, the FDA isn't saying that Juul doesn't meet any particular standard. They're saying that Juul didn't provide the data that the FDA required in order to determine whether the products meet the required standards.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Alefroth »

I see. Must be some pretty incriminating data.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Unagi »

Alefroth wrote: Thu Jun 23, 2022 7:44 pm I see. Must be some pretty incriminating data.
Right, I assume the unspoken part is that any other product you can buy has given them the data.

Right?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

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[Juul] is exploring all of its options, including seeking a stay, appealing the decision, and engaging with the FDA
Have they tried not being sociopathic assholes?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by noxiousdog »

Juul is definitely a bad actor. Their product is 50% higher in nicotine than cigarettes.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by Pyperkub »

noxiousdog wrote:Juul is definitely a bad actor. Their product is 50% higher in nicotine than cigarettes.
They have also been THE major lobbyist for pouring money into legislators.
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

Post by noxiousdog »

Pyperkub wrote: Fri Jun 24, 2022 2:46 pm
noxiousdog wrote:Juul is definitely a bad actor. Their product is 50% higher in nicotine than cigarettes.
They have also been THE major lobbyist for pouring money into legislators.
Which is kind of weird since the FDA is ruling against them, but I guess it got them a delayed reaction?
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Re: Vaping news....old considering vaping thread.

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FDA backpedals on Juul ban, says it’s re-reviewing company’s “unique” issues
The US Food and Drug Administration on Tuesday paused a decision that would effectively force Juul off the US market. On Wednesday, the two sides agreed to put their court battle on hold as the regulator conducted an additional review of Juul's products.

For people who use Juul products, the new development doesn't change much for now: A panel of federal appeals court judges had already issued an administrative stay on June 24, which meant Juul products could remain on the market while the company fought the FDA's denial of its marketing authorization request in court. But, in the longer term, it represents an embarrassing backpedal by the FDA and signals that Juul may have a good chance of permanently reversing the denial.
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