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Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

‘Reports’ will surface that ANTIFA had plants or infiltrated Cyber Ninjas.

Someone on the report or re-count team was spotted wearing a Biden shirt under a sweater or something similar.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Skinypupy wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:19 am “That’s impossible. We need to audit the auditors who audited the already audited election. It’s really the only way to be sure!” - GOP, probably
And I'm sure s party supporter has a deadbeat nephew who just started an audit auditor firm and can do the job for $7M.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

The headline is that the count was fairly accurate. However buried in the stories is the real thrust of the effort. Cyber Ninjas also produced a report that says that there were still irregularities. Maybe the vote was counted right in other words but there was little protection against fraud and there needs to be election law changes. The GOP controls the legislature and the governor's office. We haven't seen what the report says but I'll be very unsurprised when it looks like a lot of the other regressive voting laws. Meanwhile, Trump will either bash away at illegal voters or Cyber Ninjas or whatever. It doesn't matter. He just attacks because it works with his idiotic base.

Edit: Yeah and the graft element is there but that is authoritarianism for you.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Octavious »

I thought for sure they were going to come back with Trump winning from the recount. I mean why not? Nobody is going to check their results. Puzzling.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Jaymann »

Octavious wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:23 am I thought for sure they were going to come back with Trump winning from the recount. I mean why not? Nobody is going to check their results. Puzzling.
Apparently the concept of nudge, nudge, wink, wink, went right over their heads.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Or ‘we’ assumed the worst because it was ‘the other side’.

Always at least have to consider that possibility. It’s human nature after all, but that doesn’t mean we can’t overcome or at least be wary of some inherent problematic behaviors.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

I'm waiting to see the report and the potential AZ election law changes that come out of it before I give them any benefit of the doubt.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Octavious wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:23 am I thought for sure they were going to come back with Trump winning from the recount. I mean why not? Nobody is going to check their results. Puzzling.
Like malchior said, except for the true nutballs the goal is not to try to change the AZ result (the 2020 election is over for everyone but the nutballs), the goal is to justify laws that will help steal 2024. They get marginally more credibility by concluding that Biden won (see? Despite what the mainstream media out audit was fair, or else why would we have concluded that Biden won?). Then they use the 'irregularities' that they did find in their audit to justify the restrictive laws.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Octavious »

I guess... It's not like Texas or Georgia needed that extra boost to just do it anyway.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Octavious wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 10:16 am I guess... It's not like Texas or Georgia needed that extra boost to just do it anyway.
Yeah, I don't think the actual conclusion matters all that much either way, but I suspect that's the reasoning.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Wait, wait wait.

"they can and have been getting away with everything"
"Blatant disrespect for norms, precedent and even laws"
"Pushing stuff through local and state legislatures, voters' preferences be damned"

does not square with:
"but let's go through this absurdly lengthy and expensive process just to provide (to whom?) 4-D type strategy cover for our REAL designs"

Now we are starting to sound like The Crazy.

I don't think they would go through such a complicated "conspiracy" just because as mentioned, they can do this stuff blatantly, out in the open, with no apparent repercussions. Why bother with such shenanigans? I think we are way past the stage of the particularly righter side of the GOP trying to be subtle and sneaky. Maybe the lead up TO this point, sure, to put pieces in place to be ABLE to be open and blatant about the norm-busting, without fallout that would have surely happened in the Before Times.

I don't buy that particular argument, but unfortunately I can't offer up a better one.

I definitely think they have been "pressure testing" the wall to find chinks and weaknesses for a long time. I also think they found those weaknesses, pushed hard in those spots, and the wall has crumbled. The Horde is clambering over the downed wall as we speak. No need to continue meekly testing it, worried that someone guarding the wall will spot you.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 am Wait, wait wait.

"they can and have been getting away with everything"
"Blatant disrespect for norms, precedent and even laws"
"Pushing stuff through local and state legislatures, voters' preferences be damned"

does not square with:
"but let's go through this absurdly lengthy and expensive process just to provide (to whom?) 4-D type strategy cover for our REAL designs"

Now we are starting to sound like The Crazy.
This is an over read IMO. They don't have some grand 4-D strategy. They hoped to find something. They didn't so now they like a student failing a test looked around and cheated off the guy next to them. The Republicans are always pushing forward. They don't navel gaze the defeat like the Democrats do all the time.
I definitely think they have been "pressure testing" the wall to find chinks and weaknesses for a long time. I also think they found those weaknesses, pushed hard in those spots, and the wall has crumbled. The Horde is clambering over the downed wall as we speak. No need to continue meekly testing it, worried that someone guarding the wall will spot you.
That is what Trump does. He is an idiot but he just beats at the walls. He tests things. He didn't come up with the wall thing as some grand strategy. Someone told him and he market tested it. A couple of months ago he got booed for touting vaccines. He hasn't done that since. His power is he tests and adapts and has a pull/push relationship with the mob. This election stuff was instigated by him but it took a life of its own. That's how he works. He is a like a virus against democracy just attacking anything until he succeeds. And he will likely succeed or someone else will at this point if he takes his deserved and very welcome dirt nap.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 am Wait, wait wait.

"they can and have been getting away with everything"
"Blatant disrespect for norms, precedent and even laws"
"Pushing stuff through local and state legislatures, voters' preferences be damned"

does not square with:
"but let's go through this absurdly lengthy and expensive process just to provide (to whom?) 4-D type strategy cover for our REAL designs"

Now we are starting to sound like The Crazy.

I don't think they would go through such a complicated "conspiracy" just because as mentioned, they can do this stuff blatantly, out in the open, with no apparent repercussions. Why bother with such shenanigans? I think we are way past the stage of the particularly righter side of the GOP trying to be subtle and sneaky. Maybe the lead up TO this point, sure, to put pieces in place to be ABLE to be open and blatant about the norm-busting, without fallout that would have surely happened in the Before Times.

I don't buy that particular argument, but unfortunately I can't offer up a better one.
Well, there are multiple interlocking strategies and groups here, so it's not like there is only one intention or strategy to talk about here. First, you have the true MAGA crazies, who actually believe that the election was stolen from Trump. For them these audits are 100% about proving that the election was stolen and about getting Trump reinstated as president ASAP. I am sure that there are a lot of people in MAGA world who are upset about this conclusion, think it's the Deep State, etc.

Second, you have the Steve Bannon types, who (probably) don't actually believe that the election was stolen, but who support these audits out of a mix of: (1) needing to appease their true believe MAGA allies; and (2) because it's convenient for voter suppression / election theft laws that they support.

That this is the report conclusion suggests that it's the second group making the decision on the conclusion for the audit.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Octavious wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:23 am I thought for sure they were going to come back with Trump winning from the recount. I mean why not? Nobody is going to check their results. Puzzling.
Actually, they were going to have to make their audit details public in some way or another. That would make some level of fraud on their part more difficult.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

malchior wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 9:55 am I'm waiting to see the report and the potential AZ election law changes that come out of it before I give them any benefit of the doubt.
I don't think anyone is suggesting they give anyone the benefit of the doubt. Their report included dubious conclusions about various election "issues" that are demonstrably false. Their intent is the same, the numbers just wouldn't go the way they wanted them to.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Isgrimnur »

The Hill
The Texas secretary of state's office announced Thursday it would carry out an election audit in four of the state's largest counties.

The announcement came just hours after former President Trump, who carried Texas, demanded Texas Gov. Greg Abbott (R) back a bill to launch an election audit in the Lone Star State.

“Despite my big win in Texas, I hear Texans want an election audit! You know your fellow Texans have big questions about the November 2020 Election,” Trump said.
...
The secretary of state's office said “a full and comprehensive forensic audit” is underway in Dallas, Harris, Tarrant and Collin counties. President Biden won in Dallas, Harris and Tarrant counties, while Trump carried Collin County.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

El Guapo wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:58 am
Carpet_pissr wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 11:13 am Wait, wait wait.

"they can and have been getting away with everything"
"Blatant disrespect for norms, precedent and even laws"
"Pushing stuff through local and state legislatures, voters' preferences be damned"

does not square with:
"but let's go through this absurdly lengthy and expensive process just to provide (to whom?) 4-D type strategy cover for our REAL designs"

Now we are starting to sound like The Crazy.

I don't think they would go through such a complicated "conspiracy" just because as mentioned, they can do this stuff blatantly, out in the open, with no apparent repercussions. Why bother with such shenanigans? I think we are way past the stage of the particularly righter side of the GOP trying to be subtle and sneaky. Maybe the lead up TO this point, sure, to put pieces in place to be ABLE to be open and blatant about the norm-busting, without fallout that would have surely happened in the Before Times.

I don't buy that particular argument, but unfortunately I can't offer up a better one.
Well, there are multiple interlocking strategies and groups here, so it's not like there is only one intention or strategy to talk about here. First, you have the true MAGA crazies, who actually believe that the election was stolen from Trump. For them these audits are 100% about proving that the election was stolen and about getting Trump reinstated as president ASAP. I am sure that there are a lot of people in MAGA world who are upset about this conclusion, think it's the Deep State, etc.

Second, you have the Steve Bannon types, who (probably) don't actually believe that the election was stolen, but who support these audits out of a mix of: (1) needing to appease their true believe MAGA allies; and (2) because it's convenient for voter suppression / election theft laws that they support.

That this is the report conclusion suggests that it's the second group making the decision on the conclusion for the audit.
Yep, and I meant to add a line in my post regarding the fact that I am not comfortable with writing the word "They" in the context I used it. Too broad, too easy (but I did anyway :P).
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Octavious »

Trump is already screaming fake news and saying the report clearly shows fraud and an investigation needs to be launched right away. I mean that's the response we would have got no matter what the results were. He can't die soon enough. :P
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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He can't die soon enough.
I feel wrong for feeling it but that I feel it. Short of murder, I'll experience a sense schadenfreude when he goes. Actual joy.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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I can only paraphrase Sideshow Bob - The Trump, The.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm I can only paraphrase Sideshow Bob - The Trump, The.
That's always bugged me. Was he also making a gender joke?

The three gender markers that mean the (singular) in German are der (masculine), die (feminine), and das (neuter).
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by El Guapo »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 4:48 pm
Smoove_B wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 3:50 pm I can only paraphrase Sideshow Bob - The Trump, The.
That's always bugged me. Was he also making a gender joke?

The three gender markers that mean the (singular) in German are der (masculine), die (feminine), and das (neuter).
No, it's just that the feminine version is the only one that sounds like "to die" in English.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Skinypupy wrote: Fri Sep 24, 2021 1:19 am “That’s impossible. We need to audit the auditors who audited the already audited election. It’s really the only way to be sure!” - GOP, probably
I hate it when I'm right.

From the Chairwoman of the Arizona GOP:


Amazing report from Dr. Shiva. Many questions for Maricopa County as well as exposure of incompetence & possible malfeasance. A FULL SIGNATURE AUDIT IS ABSOLUTELY NECESSARY!
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

Clearly it's all about a continued effort to de-legitimize elections moving forward. I can only imagine what's going to happen in 2022 and 2024 just based on how they're acting now.

Or maybe we don't need to wait until then, right Paul Gosar?


NEW: Paul Gosar told us yesterday in Phoenix that he wants to hold a new election between Biden and Trump before the end of the year
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Here he is talking about the CIA "fraud department". Hmm I wonder if that is the window at the agency where I can complain about erroneous yellowcake uranium claims?

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Gosar had not previously crossed my radar. Is he actually bonkers, or is this just the grift machine?
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Isgrimnur »

Indy Independent
A man has found a brilliant way of getting rid of annoying scam phone callers, after convincing a con artist that he was with the CIA.

In a viral video, posted by TikTok user @1roy_jr and captioned “CIA Fraud Division Coming to a dial tone near you”, Roy L Baker showed how he deals with nuisance calls.

At the start of the clip, he received a call from a “spam risk” number but decided to answer anyway and have a bit of fun.

When he picked up the phone, he pretended to be from the non-existent CIA fraud department.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Joke’s possibly on him. Many of those auto-dialed spam calls are just testing to see if the call is answered. If yes, the number gets dumped into a larger d-base.

Or re-sold as more valuable ‘verified’ target numbers.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Smoove_B »

I mean, I appreciate the transparency here, but tell me again how this isn't a hair-on-fire moment for our democracy?

This new interview by Powell is interesting. It suggests that the purpose of the insurrection was to DELAY the electoral college certification to give Alito time to intervene on this legal challenge. But, Powell says they didn’t anticipate Pelosi reconvening Congress that day
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Holman »

Little Raven wrote: Sat Sep 25, 2021 7:02 pm Gosar had not previously crossed my radar. Is he actually bonkers, or is this just the grift machine?
He's far-right bonkers.

His six siblings cut an ad begging voters to reject him, and they have since called for his expulsion from Congress.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Heh:

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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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Reading the article raises questions about whether Logan is being truthful about being in debt.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

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The Atlantic has a long cover piece today summarizing where are at and why we are so utterly, fully, totally fucked. It's largely a recap, punctuated with some interviews, and won't come as news to folks here who have been closely following. But man, seeing it all lined up like this is devastating.

Trump's Next Coup Has Already Begun

Sub-head: January 6 was practice. Donald Trump’s GOP is much better positioned to subvert the next election.
Technically, the next attempt to overthrow a national election may not qualify as a coup. It will rely on subversion more than violence, although each will have its place. If the plot succeeds, the ballots cast by American voters will not decide the presidency in 2024. Thousands of votes will be thrown away, or millions, to produce the required effect. The winner will be declared the loser. The loser will be certified president-elect.

The prospect of this democratic collapse is not remote. People with the motive to make it happen are manufacturing the means. Given the opportunity, they will act. They are acting already.

Who or what will safeguard our constitutional order is not apparent today. It is not even apparent who will try. Democrats, big and small D, are not behaving as if they believe the threat is real. Some of them, including President Joe Biden, have taken passing rhetorical notice, but their attention wanders. They are making a grievous mistake.

...

...

...

Donald trump came closer than anyone thought he could to toppling a free election a year ago. He is preparing in plain view to do it again, and his position is growing stronger. Republican acolytes have identified the weak points in our electoral apparatus and are methodically exploiting them. They have set loose and now are driven by the animus of tens of millions of aggrieved Trump supporters who are prone to conspiracy thinking, embrace violence, and reject democratic defeat. Those supporters, Robert Pape’s “committed insurrectionists,” are armed and single-minded and will know what to do the next time Trump calls upon them to act.

Democracy will be on trial in 2024. A strong and clear-eyed president, faced with such a test, would devote his presidency to meeting it. Biden knows better than I do what it looks like when a president fully marshals his power and resources to face a challenge. It doesn’t look like this.

The midterms, marked by gerrymandering, will more than likely tighten the GOP’s grip on the legislatures in swing states. The Supreme Court may be ready to give those legislatures near-absolute control over the choice of presidential electors. And if Republicans take back the House and Senate, as oddsmakers seem to believe they will, the GOP will be firmly in charge of counting the electoral votes.

Against Biden or another Democratic nominee, Donald Trump may be capable of winning a fair election in 2024. He does not intend to take that chance.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by malchior »

As we near the anniversary of January 6, investigators are still unearthing the roots of the insurrection that sacked the Capitol and sent members of Congress fleeing for their lives. What we know already, and could not have known then, is that the chaos wrought on that day was integral to a coherent plan. In retrospect, the insurrection takes on the aspect of rehearsal.
My only quibble with the piece. It isn't wrong but I think it's important to note that people suspected he'd attempt to stay in power and the violence on January 6th wasn't all that surprising to those of us who were paying attention. The people who were surprised were the people who are failing to recognize the danger now. It's hard to see this turning out well because my continuing observation is that the people most responsible for acting are completely failing at protecting our democracy.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Zaxxon »

malchior wrote: Mon Dec 06, 2021 11:58 am
As we near the anniversary of January 6, investigators are still unearthing the roots of the insurrection that sacked the Capitol and sent members of Congress fleeing for their lives. What we know already, and could not have known then, is that the chaos wrought on that day was integral to a coherent plan. In retrospect, the insurrection takes on the aspect of rehearsal.
My only quibble with the piece. It isn't wrong but I think it's important to note that people suspected he'd attempt to stay in power and the violence on January 6th wasn't all that surprising to those of us who were paying attention. The people who were surprised were the people who are failing to recognize the danger now. It's hard to see this turning out well because my continuing observation is that the people most responsible for acting are completely failing at protecting our democracy.
This author specifically suspected [Trump would attempt to stay in power] and said so at the time. I think it's the coherent plan part--certainly that was not known at the time (to anywhere near the extent it has played out).
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Kraken »

Hey, there's a committee investigating. There will be stern words before they're sent packing. We've got this.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Portrait of a delusion and an election at risk:

https://www.theatlantic.com/magazine/ar ... on/620843/
But only 7 percent of the January 6 insurgents were jobless, and more than half of the group had a white-collar job or owned their own business. There were doctors, architects, a Google field-operations specialist, the CEO of a marketing firm, a State Department official. “The last time America saw middle-class whites involved in violence was the expansion of the second KKK in the 1920s,” Pape told me.

Yet these insurgents were not, by and large, affiliated with known extremist groups. Several dozen did have connections with the Proud Boys, the Oath Keepers, or the Three Percenters militia, but a larger number—six out of every seven who were charged with crimes—had no ties like that at all.
Last edited by Grifman on Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:34 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Zaxxon »

Yep, see above.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Grifman »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:12 pmYep, see above.
Heh, my bad.
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Re: Election integrity and the transfer of power

Post by Zaxxon »

Grifman wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:35 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Dec 07, 2021 8:12 pmYep, see above.
Heh, my bad.
It's worth calling out the section you did, though.
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