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The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Unagi
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Unagi »

Defiant wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 12:50 pm
Unagi wrote: Thu Nov 18, 2021 8:49 am Re: % of 5-11 year olds that were vaccinate by state...

Where does one find that data? All I can find are week old news reports.
It's going to vary by state (if the state even breaks out that data and updates it regularly).

For IL, this site was updated yesterday: https://dph.illinois.gov/covid19/vaccin ... y=Illinois

You can use the Jurisdiction-Specific Age Demographics to see that 11.57% of 5-11 year olds have gotten at least one dose.


Awesome, thank you!
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

The Mouse will sue your pants off if you even look sideways at their IP, but apparently employment law and the Governor of FL is a big shrug for them.

Disney paused its coronavirus vaccine mandate for employees at Walt Disney World after the Florida State Legislature and governor made it illegal for employers to require all workers get the shots, the company confirmed Saturday.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Do I not understand how the military works?
Up to 10,000 active-duty Marines will not be fully vaccinated against the coronavirus when their deadline arrives in coming days, a trajectory expected to yield the U.S. military’s worst immunization rate.

While 94 percent of Marine Corps personnel have met the vaccination requirement or are on a path to do so, according to the latest official data, for the remainder it is too late to begin a regimen and complete it by the service’s Nov. 28 deadline. Within an institution built upon the belief that orders are to be obeyed, and one that brands itself the nation’s premier crisis-response force, it is a vexing outcome.

The holdouts will join approximately 9,600 Air Force personnel who have outright refused the vaccine, did not report their status, or sought an exemption on medical or religious grounds, causing a dilemma for commanders tasked with maintaining combat-ready forces — and marking the latest showdown over President Biden’s authority to impose vaccination as a condition of continued government service.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by El Guapo »

I'm sure it won't go like this, but as with the police this seems like more upside than downside. Like, now we have an easy way to remove 10,000 armed soldiers who put insane politics over following lawful orders.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

I don't see it as an upside at all. I see it as a sign of how deep the rot has reached - that its compromising 10K enlisted marines.

In other news, how is this a serious article published today? Are the people at the NYT even living in the same dimension as I am?


Some of the fiercest political debates in America over the past two years have been waged over a small piece of fabric: the face mask. Now, with the summer’s Delta surge in the rearview mirror, many are wondering when the masks might finally come off.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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The NYT has been smoking the good stuff lately.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Smoove_B wrote: Mon Nov 22, 2021 1:16 pm I don't see it as an upside at all. I see it as a sign of how deep the rot has reached - that its compromising 10K enlisted marines.
I don't disagree at all about the deep rot. But two things. First, I'm not shocked that 10K enlisted marines would be refusing the vaccine. I think that the Marines are above average in two things highly linked to vaccine denialism: right-wing politics and % of people without a college degree.

But second, the proper response should be to tell these 10K to stuff it. Some of them when push comes to shove will get vaccinated. For those who won't...we're better off not having them in the military.

In other words, this is an opportunity to cleanly cut out some of the rot.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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How much? When we stalled at 60% and certain businesses started mandating vaccines, many refused. When it came down to losing their jobs, though, the number of vaccinated was jumping way, way up by the deadline (I heard 97% somewhere.) So out of 40% who initially refused, only 3% were adamant enough to put their careers on the line for it.

If those numbers continue into the Marines, that 10,000 could just be the tiny holdout from 100,000+ who were extreme or gullible enough to refuse to begin with. In other words, 100,000 who wouldn't be reliable to follow their oaths if push came to shove in the US. And a quick check suggests that 100,000 would be more than half of them.

Cut out the rot? 10k would be like wiping off the pus.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Of the 37% (or whatever number) who initially refused, I think a larger portion are more akin to superstitious than extreme or overly gullible. When push came to shove they went ahead with it.

They'll avoid walking under a ladder strolling around Parris Island but if it's between them and cover in a firefight, zero thought.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Kraken »

Yahoo News has an interesting new survey of covid attitudes on the eve of the winter holidays.
Even though the COVID-19 pandemic continues to rage on, nearly three-quarters of Americans (74 percent) now say their lives have returned to “normal,” according to a new Yahoo News/YouGov poll.

It’s a number that underscores both the progress made possible by safe and effective vaccines and the challenges ahead as the holidays approach and yet another winter wave gets underway in the United States.

The survey of 1,696 adults, which was conducted from Nov. 17 to 19, found that only 15 percent say that things “never stopped being normal” for them — a reminder of just how profoundly the virus has disrupted American life.

Yet as the U.S. pandemic enters its 21st month, most Americans now characterize their own lives as either "very normal" (21 percent) or "somewhat normal" (53 percent), considering “the impact of COVID-19.”
It breaks that down in some detail, then gets political at the end with the results you'd expect -- the least-vaccinated people are taking the most risks, and they're mostly Republicans.

BTW my ad blocker says it stopped 240 things on that site, and DuckDuckGo rated it a "D" before cleaning it up to a "B", so if you don't use browser protection you might want to steer clear.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Kraken wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 12:05 am It breaks that down in some detail, then gets political at the end with the results you'd expect -- the least-vaccinated people are taking the most risks, and they're mostly Republicans.
The real story (imho) is the divide between rural and ubran residents:
The difference between the COVID-19 precautions Thompson has observed at home in D.C. and the looser rules he’s witnessed in Indiana are part of a common—and, for public-health workers, vexing—trend emerging at this point in the pandemic. Some parts of the country have given up on masks, outdoor socializing, and working from home. They feel, in short, that the pandemic is “over.” Unfortunately, those are also some of the areas where COVID-19 vaccination rates are lowest.

...

People in rural areas are also significantly less likely than the other two groups to wear a mask indoors at restaurants and bars, or at work. They were the least likely group to say that their kids are required to wear masks to school or day care. They are also more likely to socialize with friends indoors without masks on: 68 percent said they now do this, compared with 54 percent of urbanites.

...

Among the rural unvaccinated, this is a false sense of security. COVID is spreading rapidly in rural areas, which is worrisome because rural people tend to be older, poorer, and in worse health to begin with. If they do get sick, they have less access to hospitals—more than 100 rural hospitals have closed since 2013. The COVID-19 death rate in rural America is now twice the death rate in urban areas. And the longer that pockets of unvaccinated Americans remain, the greater the likelihood that new variants will take hold and spread elsewhere.
As someone that lives in a rural part of the state (~67% vaccinated), I can't help but shake the feeling that this winter is going to be just as bad or worse than last year in parts of our state.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Whelp, pretty much all of Denver metro is now under a new mask mandate, except my county and its very-much serious new board of health that definitely was not created solely to be intentionally asleep at the wheel for this moment.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Red parts of California are doing great.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Zaxxon wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:30 am Whelp, pretty much all of Denver metro is now under a new mask mandate, except my county and its very-much serious new board of health that definitely was not created solely to be intentionally asleep at the wheel for this moment.

Bob McDonald, Denver's public health director, says CO is in a worse spot now than earlier in the pandemic due to hospital staffing shortages.

...

Absent a federal vaccine mandate, Dr. Wittenstein of Denver Health repeats "our system is on the brink of collapse," says this masking + vaccine requirement will reduce transmission and limit hospitalization.


There's a whole thread, but good lord - CO is a mess.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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My boss was telling me as they were hospital hopping for her mother, beds weren't full. Staffing was at care giving capacity.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:51 pm My boss was telling me as they were hospital hopping for her mother, beds weren't full. Staffing was at care giving capacity.
We're currently seeing this in regards to my wife's grandfather. It is very hard to get him specialty care and find him long-term housing at the moment. I'm not sure it's big picture relevant right now but it does feel like the theme of the next few years could be based around shortages in several areas including health care. We'll see but the longer this pandemic stretches the worse it might be.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 3:43 pm
Zaxxon wrote: Tue Nov 23, 2021 11:30 am Whelp, pretty much all of Denver metro is now under a new mask mandate, except my county and its very-much serious new board of health that definitely was not created solely to be intentionally asleep at the wheel for this moment.

Bob McDonald, Denver's public health director, says CO is in a worse spot now than earlier in the pandemic due to hospital staffing shortages.

...

Absent a federal vaccine mandate, Dr. Wittenstein of Denver Health repeats "our system is on the brink of collapse," says this masking + vaccine requirement will reduce transmission and limit hospitalization.


There's a whole thread, but good lord - CO is a mess.
My sister, a nurse practitioner in CO, would agree. She constantly tells me how so many nurses are quitting all the time.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Just for the record:


This guy was a doctor to multiple presidents.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Nothing matters anymore

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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What an absolute garbage person. How can anyone vote for someone who treats such a thing so two faced? At least if you are anti vax you have a stupid belief. At least if you are consistent liar you have an audience, a choir for whom to preach. These aren't necessarily good things, but she is necessarily a terrible person for everyone.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Washington Post

This whole piece is where the experts fall down for me. You can be the smartest person in the world but it doesn't matter if you can't drive results. Everything in the piece sounds reasonable but they are obsessing about micro effects in a society that is dysfunctional to its very soul. The argument against boosters makes sense if read out by logical. Unfortunately a majority of people in country are hopelessly illogical or willfully ignorant. I don't get how these experts are still dealing in abstract frameworks while they keep getting punched in the face by reality.
We don’t need universal booster shots. We need to reach the unvaccinated.

Many people are cheering the decision by the Food and Drug Administration, on Nov. 19, to authorize the use of coronavirus vaccine boosters for all adults 18 and over — a move that built on the earlier authorization of them for people over 65, those with underlying health issues and front-line workers. Commentators are hailing boosters as a key tool for getting the pandemic under control, and many public health experts are urging all American adults to get them.

Two of us — Krause and Gruber — were co-authors of a recent article in the Lancet, a medical journal, that summarized all of the available data on boosting and concluded that the data did not support widespread boosting; the other — Offit — is a member of the FDA vaccine advisory committee that voted against boosting for all adults last month. We continue to think that while boosting can improve immune responses and can even further increase already very high levels of protection in some people, the need for a boost remains restricted to people who are at high risk of serious disease (including the elderly) or those at risk of exposing vulnerable household or workplace contacts if they get infected.

The data does not show that every healthy adult should get a booster. Indeed, the push for boosters for all could actually prolong the pandemic. First, such a campaign diverts focus away from the goal of persuading the unvaccinated to get their shots (and persuading parents to get their eligible children shots). Second, and relatedly, exaggerated descriptions of the waning efficacy of the vaccines undermine public confidence in them, and some people may be less likely to accept vaccines that they regard as less effective than originally advertised.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

The number of experts - people that have opinions that I respected prior to COVID-19 - that are doubling-down on vaccination-only strategy is really wearing on my soul. From my earliest days in the field, public health 101 is all about using multiple strategies to break a chain of events that leads to disease. Focusing on a single "link" in that chain is a bad idea; multiple links should be targeted to have the greatest impact. And yet today we're *still* focused on vaccination as the way out. Don't get me wrong, vaccination is important and we should be trying to get more people vaccinated. But it's not the only tool we have. If we continue to just promote vaccination as the only way out...pain.

Everyone is arguing about the number of vaccines and there's a significant number of us jumping up and down trying to draw attention to masking and ventilation, all being ignored.

I think the biggest issue right now is the head ("coordinator) of the COVID-19 response team - Zients. He has a degree in Political Science, not public health; he's a management consultant. For whatever reason, he's fully committed to this vaccination is the only solution mentality and I just don't get it anymore.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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I had no idea. I just figured this was eggheads being eggheads. So it is being led by a political scientist who doesn't understand politics. Oh right he is a Democrat.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Ok, stop me if you've heard this one before - it's about the GOP rewarding antivax holdouts with benefits:
Florida, Iowa, Kansas and Tennessee have changed their unemployment insurance rules to allow workers who are fired or quit over vaccine mandates to receive benefits.

Details: Nine GOP-controlled states have passed laws requiring exemptions for the Biden administration's vaccine mandate, or banning private companies from requiring vaccination altogether, according to the National Academy for State Health Policy.

Several states have made it as easy as possible for workers to claim exemptions, allowing them to opt-out on philosophical grounds or requiring businesses to accept all requests for religious or medical exemptions without proof.
Legal uncertainty created by a wide variety of new vaccine exemptions in Florida – including for past COVID-19 infections and "anticipated future pregnancy" – prompted Disney World to suspend its vaccine mandate on Tuesday.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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The thing that you have to remember is that the GOP is famously happy to give money to people who choose not to work.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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:lol:

I really am trying to process that 6 months ago, this was the same group of people absolutely frothing at the mouth that benefits needed to end to get lazy people back to work.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

Going back to the actual mask wearing, just seeing this from last night:


On March 1st, the American Mask Manufacturers Association wrote to the White House that their members had 233 million N95 respirators ready to ship and could produce 298 million more per month
Infuriating. And then I think about the federal government actually mailing them out to households and the number of people that would be posting TikTok videos of them being burned; also infuriating.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Smoove_B wrote: Mon Nov 29, 2021 5:19 pm :lol:

I really am trying to process that 6 months ago, this was the same group of people absolutely frothing at the mouth that benefits needed to end to get lazy people back to work.
Yeah, but that was for “those” people. Not True Patriots like these hardworking Americans.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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The bolding below is mine. From another article I'll paraphrase but he also essentially gave an unqualified medical opinion in his ruling. He wrote that temporarily blocking the mandate probably wouldn't have much medical impact.
The Biden administration issued the vaccine mandate, for health-care workers at facilities that received funding from Medicare and Medicaid, in early November through the Centers for Medicare and Medicaid Services (CMS). It was estimated to apply to some 1.7 million workers at 76,000 facilities across the country, including hospitals and nursing homes.

But in a 32-page ruling issued on Monday in St. Louis, the judge, Trump appointee District Judge Matthew T. Schelp, said that a preliminary injunction to halt the rule was warranted because he believed the arguments made by the plaintiffs — 10 mostly Republican-dominated states — that the CMS lacked authority to implement the requirement, probably had merit.

He also questioned whether there was enough data about transmissibility and vaccination status, and said that he believed the order was probably “arbitrary and capricious.”

“Congress did not clearly authorize CMS to enact this politically and economically vast, federalism-altering, and boundary-pushing mandate, which Supreme Court precedent requires,” he wrote.

The order will halt the CMS vaccine mandate in the 10 states that brought the lawsuit until the court can hear their legal challenges. They include: Alaska, Arkansas, Iowa, Kansas, Missouri, Nebraska, New Hampshire, North Dakota, South Dakota and Wyoming.
Meanwhile...

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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What a crock from the judge in St. Louis - that's unreal. Or as I've come to learn in the last 2 years, totally normal. He's up there peer reviewing lord knows what from the bench. I'm stunned.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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And as a reminder, these are our elected leaders in Jerz:
As the threat of the omicron variant sends shivers through a weary and worried nation, Republican members of the state Assembly are planning to protest a new rule banning lawmakers from entering the New Jersey Statehouse if they can't show proof of vaccination or a negative COVID-19 test.

The 28-member caucus, which has been in the minority in Trenton for almost two decades, plans to flout the new rule at Thursday's Assembly session. Just how the members plan to carry out their protest remains unclear.

A caucus-wide refusal to attend is one possibility. Some may take the option of participating remotely, and others, like Assemblyman Brian Bergen, R-Denville, plan to attend and see what happens.

"I'm not going to abide by the policy,'' he said. "My plan is to go to my seat and vote. I'm not showing them anything."
While I won't claim locals are patterning their behavior after what they're seeing with elected leadership, I'll instead say that when we allow these clowns to act like this, it embiggens the common man to think they too are above all this and don't need to answer to any work or social mandate to vaccinate.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Smoove_B wrote: Tue Nov 30, 2021 10:20 am What a crock from the judge in St. Louis - that's unreal. Or as I've come to learn in the last 2 years, totally normal. He's up there peer reviewing lord knows what from the bench. I'm stunned.
The thing you have to remember is that some of the people binging (bingeing?) Fox News are federal judges.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by LawBeefaroni »

As Michigan gets hot:
Nine hospitals are 100% full, according to the latest state data. They include Detroit Receiving Hospital, Ascension Standish, Bronson South Haven, MidMichigan Medical Center in Alma, ProMedica Coldwater, Promedica Monroe, Spectrum Health in Hastings, and St. Joseph Mercy in Ann Arbor and Livingston. Another 22 hospitals are above 90% full.


“We're in high capacity right now. The patients who come into the hospital with COVID are almost always not vaccinated,” Cunningham said. “There are a small number of people who are vaccinated and come in the hospital, but they have immune systems that don't work really well either because they're the elderly or underlying medical problems like cancer or an organ transplant.”
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by malchior »

Another Trump judge blocks the vaccine mandate nationwide to protect the liberty of the unvaccinated.

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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I hadn't been keeping up with the news in my area, but here's a nice milestone for the 12-15 yr old range.
Alexandria: 98% vaccinated with at least 1 dose.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Max Peck »

Meanwhile, in Canada...

Unvaccinated travellers over the age of 12 barred from planes and trains as of today
Unvaccinated travellers over the age of 12 won't be able to board a plane or passenger train in Canada beginning today, and a negative COVID-19 test will no longer serve as a substitute for most people.

The policy came into effect on Oct. 30, but the federal government allowed a short transition period for unvaccinated travellers who could board as long as they provided a negative molecular COVID-19 test taken within 72 hours before their trip.
While many airlines have so far been doing random spot checks to ensure travellers are vaccinated, Air Canada and West Jet have confirmed they will ask for proof from everyone boarding in Canada as of today.

Other measures, like masks and health screenings, will still be mandatory.

"If you indicate to your airline or railway company that you're eligible to board, but fail to provide proof of vaccination or valid COVID-19 test result, you won't be allowed to travel and could face penalties or fines," the government's website states.

The rule does not apply to commuter trains.
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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UsulofDoom wrote: Mon Oct 04, 2021 4:40 pm I don’t understand how you can fire these brave souls, that worked on saving covid patients for a whole year before there was even a vaccine? Now they are going to collect unemployment ,food stamps ,housing and free medical. Their loss and burden will strain our system even further by these draconian laws.

Iowa Gov. Kim Reynolds on Friday signed into law a bill that allows Iowa workers to seek medical and religious exemptions from Covid-19 vaccine mandates and guarantees that those who are fired for refusing a vaccine will qualify for unemployment benefits. Reynolds signed the bill a day after the Iowa Legislature passed it in a one-day special session convened to pass the state's redistricting maps. The law becomes effective immediately.

Did not see that comming. :wink:

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Kasey Chang »

Missouri buried its study that shows mask mandate saves lives because the governor called it "wrong"
The study compared infection and death rates in St. Louis, St. Louis County, Kansas City and Jackson County with the rest of the state. New state health Director Donald Kauerauf wrote in an email that the study's findings showed the effectiveness of mask mandates and forwarded it to Parson's office. The analysis wasn't included in material the department prepared for cabinet meetings, the emails show. Neither the health department nor Parson's office responded to requests for comment asking why the data has not been shared publicly. …
Parson has spoken out repeatedly against local mask mandates, calling them "WRONG" in a tweet and a contributor to the erosion of public trust. Attorney General Eric Schmitt has gone a step further, suing St. Louis, St. Louis County, Kansas City and Jackson County to block enforcement of their mask mandates.
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Smoove_B
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Re: The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

Post by Smoove_B »

That's not surprising at all, but I hadn't seen it. Horrific.

In my own state, things are heating up:
Top Republicans in both the state Senate and Assembly went to court Wednesday seeking to block a new policy that requires all people — including lawmakers — to show either proof of vaccination against COVID-19 or a negative coronavirus test to enter the New Jersey Statehouse in Trenton.

The legislators filed a lawsuit in State Superior Court against the State Capitol Joint Management Commission, the little-known state commission that approved the policy in October as New Jersey continues to deal with the pandemic that has killed more than 28,300 residents.

...

Assemblyman Erik Peterson, R-Hunterdon, said he has “no legal obligation” to follow the policy.

“I don’t think the policy applies to me,” Peterson said. “The Constitution doesn’t give anyone the right to give conditions as to being able to vote in the chambers as an equal measure. Nobody can legally prevent me from going in and voting in the chambers. I think people need to get back to a good civics class and learn how the Constitution works.”
Unreal.
I'm so far off the map the sun is shining
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