Racism in America (with data)

[naednek]

might want to put the murder video under a spoiler tag. Or at least tell me what they are about to see.

[LordMortis]

Just saying zero (instead of 'none' or 'no') seems a little weird in the context of what he was trying to eventually say.
and needing to physically show the number zero like that is also weird... IMO.

However, it was really very brief and I am amazed anyone even 'caught it'. Of course, he didn't know the WSJ image was on air - not him - so maybe he held it up for a while?

Not sure if it was WP or not.

I have never seen "zero" expressed that way. Previous to the racism co-opting I had see three things:

OK
Asshole
And if it down instead up it was a frat thing of: "Made you look, now I'm going to punch you."

To express Zero, usually you say "Goose egg" or "nada" and all four fingers are curved toward the thumb.

Trolling or bigot looking for violent confrontation or simply out of touch? I have no way to know. This whole thing went off the rails at "very good people on both sides" and then somehow managed to get worse at every opportunity get back on line. He gets no benefit of the doubt from me.

[LawBeefaroni]

Just saying zero (instead of 'none' or 'no') seems a little weird in the context of what he was trying to eventually say.
and needing to physically show the number zero like that is also weird... IMO.

However, it was really very brief and I am amazed anyone even 'caught it'. Of course, he didn't know the WSJ image was on air - not him - so maybe he held it up for a while?

Not sure if it was WP or not.

I was actually listening while getting dressed and heard him say, "see that?" and went back to rewind it because I was thinking, "See what? Did he do the sign?" Sure enough.

It's almost certainly trolling at this point. And giving a shout-out.

[LawBeefaroni]

Just saying zero (instead of 'none' or 'no') seems a little weird in the context of what he was trying to eventually say.
and needing to physically show the number zero like that is also weird... IMO.

However, it was really very brief and I am amazed anyone even 'caught it'. Of course, he didn't know the WSJ image was on air - not him - so maybe he held it up for a while?

Not sure if it was WP or not.

I have never seen "zero" expressed that way.

I have always seen "zero" as the half binoculars thing.

Previous to the racism co-opting I had see three things:

OK
Asshole
And if it down instead up it was a frat thing of: "Made you look, now I'm going to punch you."

He also added the other pointer finger into he mix so it may have been the universal sign for sexual intercourse. Would need to see the whole thing.

[Unagi]

and needing to physically show the number zero like that is also weird... IMO.

I have always seen "zero" as the half binoculars thing.

Absolutely agree.

[hepcat]

He also added the other pointer finger into he mix so it may have been the universal sign for sexual intercourse.

Is it possible he's actually part of the resistance and showing us what Trump is doing to America right now?

[pr0ner]

might want to put the murder video under a spoiler tag. Or at least tell me what they are about to see.

To be totally accurate, it's a shooting video. The victim is still alive.

[naednek]

might want to put the murder video under a spoiler tag. Or at least tell me what they are about to see.

To be totally accurate, it's a shooting video. The victim is still alive.

thanks, you are correct. I knew that, not sure why I messed that up.

[malchior]

Jeez. This is *not helpful*.

[YellowKing]

Yeah, I'm all for Black Lives Matter, but if you come shouting in my face while me and my family are trying to eat then you can fuck right off.

[malchior]

Yeah, I'm all for Black Lives Matter, but if you come shouting in my face while me and my family are trying to eat then you can fuck right off.

That where I'm at on this. In the thread, the OP says that the woman even claimed she went to marches but felt that being coerced into showing solidarity didn't feel right.

[LawBeefaroni]

Some video here. Amazing the number of guns at these things.

https://twitter.com/ShelbyTalcott


My rule, if you feel like you need to open carry an AR15 (or your rifle of choice) to feel safe somewhere, probably should do all you can to avoid going there.

[Blackhawk]

Some video here. Amazing the number of guns at these things.

https://twitter.com/ShelbyTalcott


My rule, if you feel like you need to open carry an AR15 (or your rifle of choice) to feel safe somewhere, probably should do all you can to avoid going there.

And multiple gunshots, multiple reported wounded victims.

[malchior]

A piece at the Washington Post will lead you right to the tweets of the street fights were people with long arms and pistols are battling on the street with unarmed protesters. There is also other video where the police telling the 'militia' guys protecting businesses that they appreciate them and supplying them with water.

The comments on the Washington Post are worth looking at just to skim them. There is a lot to be worried about there. This is a country deeply divided and on the edge. People are openly talking about fighting there.

Edit: Here is at least one interaction that shed light on what is actually happening vis a vis interactions between individuals at the 'street level' versus what is being said to the press.

Beth, the sheriff, told the Journal Sentinel that armed militia members have been on the streets in recent nights, calling them a “vigilante group.”

After the shooting, he told the Times that the bloodshed validated his concerns about armed civilians.

“I’ve had people saying, ‘Why don’t you deputize citizens?’” he said. “This is why you don’t deputize citizens with guns to protect Kenosha.”

[malchior]

Re: the Kenosha shootings. I won't post the shooting videos directly but I think I've pieced together a bit of a loose story:

Apparently there was a confrontation between protesters and armed vigilantes at a gas station that has developed as a hot spot over the last couple days in Kenosha. The confrontation got heated and one of the armed 'militia' men started shooting and hit a protester in the head. He may have been one of the fatalities (almost certainly). The shooter then fled the scene.

As the shooter ran away a crowd chased him and tried to stop them on the street. The crowd appeared to be generally unarmed but one had a skateboard which was swung at the shooter. The shooter fell on the ground and a bit of a melee began and the shooter began firing again. The man with skateboard lunged towards him and stepped over him. The shooter got a shot off point blank and incapacitated skateboard man. He got off another shot that seemed to injure another man and then continued to retreat towards the police line. He then raises his arms and walks right by the police. Everything but the first shoot is on video -- so far -- so it seems likely they'll eventually identify the man.

[raydude]

Ammon Bundy expresses his support for BLM and the “defund the police” movement.

That’s...not what I expected, although I suppose it does fit in his general anti-government stance.

He didn't attend a BLM rally because dipshit was scared??! Somehow I don't buy it.

I do.

I am surprised and impressed. I still don't agree with the Bundy occupation only slightly less than I do declaring police free zones.

This is why I call bullshit. He's too scared of supporting BLM openly but not scared of threatening the government over COVID measures? Bull-shit.

[Smoove_B]

First off, F Bundy.

Second, Buzzfeed did some detective work and discovered:

The law enforcement–obsessed 17-year-old who was charged with shooting and killing two people and injuring another in Kenosha, Wisconsin, during protests for Jacob Blake appeared in the front row at a Donald Trump rally in January.

Kyle Howard Rittenhouse’s social media presence is filled with him posing with weapons, posting “Blue Lives Matter,” and supporting Trump for president. Footage from the Des Moines, Iowa, rally on Jan. 30 shows Rittenhouse feet away from the president, in the front row, to the left of the podium. He posted a TikTok video from the event.

I'm sure it was just a coincidence.

[Holman]

Here we are: GOP champion Tucker Carlson outright defending political murder.



Aggressive protest is violence.

Murdering protesters is "keeping order."

[LawBeefaroni]

That kid is a mass shooter. No way around it. The self-defense narrative is bullshit. He shot people who were trying to stop a mass shooter.

And to answer that fucker Carlson, not shocked at all though probably for different reasons than what he is fishing for. 17-year-olds often exhibit poor judgement and make rash and poor decisions. It's why he cannot legally carry in his home state and probably can't in Wisconsin. He had delusions of being LE and went looking for conflict.


I don't know if he's boogaloo, though he fits the profile, but he is undoubtedly the toast of the movement right now.

[Grifman]

Yeah, I'm all for Black Lives Matter, but if you come shouting in my face while me and my family are trying to eat then you can fuck right off.

Agreed, I would have done the same thing. You can't force support/sympathy, that's just fake in the end. I am generally supportive but I would not "bend the knee" if they would try to force me. This is ridiculous and just made for a Trump campaign ad.

[Grifman]

Re: the Kenosha shootings. I won't post the shooting videos directly but I think I've pieced together a bit of a loose story:

Apparently there was a confrontation between protesters and armed vigilantes at a gas station that has developed as a hot spot over the last couple days in Kenosha. The confrontation got heated and one of the armed 'militia' men started shooting and hit a protester in the head. He may have been one of the fatalities (almost certainly). The shooter then fled the scene.

So there is more than just what is in the video? Because the video by itself just looks like defense. I've looked but I have found no detail about the sequence of events? Can you point me to reporting on this? Thanks.

[malchior]

Re: the Kenosha shootings. I won't post the shooting videos directly but I think I've pieced together a bit of a loose story:

Apparently there was a confrontation between protesters and armed vigilantes at a gas station that has developed as a hot spot over the last couple days in Kenosha. The confrontation got heated and one of the armed 'militia' men started shooting and hit a protester in the head. He may have been one of the fatalities (almost certainly). The shooter then fled the scene.

So there is more than just what is in the video? Because the video by itself just looks like defense. I've looked but I have found no detail about the sequence of events? Can you point me to reporting on this? Thanks.

The reporting is scant on the end-to-end action. I had to piece it together from videos. I also found that the media often left out important details. For example, Huffpo wrote about the longer video with the 2nd shooting and said the shooter tripped. They left out that people were fighting with the gun man and he tripped or was pushed in the altercation. Right-wing outlets gloss over the 1st shooting entirely and focus on self-defense.

It is hard to gauge if he truly was the shooter at the 1st scene since you don't have clear evidence like the 2nd scene. I suspect the current murder charge doesn't include the gas station fatality for this reason. However, the crowd is yelling to stop him and he is running away from the gas station towards the police. Further in one of the clips above, you'll see that one of his buddies -- they are walking together in the water boy clip -- later says that the police intentionally pushed the crowd towards the gas station. So they had an active role in this that should part of the headline but is buried. The bottom line is that having watched all the pieces I truly feel like the narratives all are incomplete and I can't help but feel it is intentional all around. Ideally, someone will eventually piece all this together in a cohesive story for mass consumption because it's all there on twitter. You just have to sort through the noise to get the picture together.

[Little Raven]

After being burned by false narratives several times over the last couple of years, I have a new rule:

Wait AT LEAST 48 hours before giving any account of events any credence. The misinformation bots are real.

[malchior]

After being burned by false narratives several times over the last couple of years, I have a new rule:

Wait AT LEAST 48 hours before giving any account of events any credence. The misinformation bots are real.

This is the advantage of basically never sleeping. I watched some of it live or combed through the clips. If I'm getting it wrong, it is only on myself but that said I think my blurb earlier today is accurate. To your point, 48 hours will see a story solidified but I honestly don't think we can hope for accuracy anymore. There is just so much noise leaking into the 'reporting'. Intentional or not.

[Enough]

After being burned by false narratives several times over the last couple of years, I have a new rule:

Wait AT LEAST 48 hours before giving any account of events any credence. The misinformation bots are real.

This is very solid advise, but I fear it's going to take some serious phd work to untangle a lot of this mess and decades before we know what I wished we could know right now. The saliency and exigency of the moment demands we act now, but the fog of war robs us of our sight. Aiieee.

[malchior]

After being burned by false narratives several times over the last couple of years, I have a new rule:

Wait AT LEAST 48 hours before giving any account of events any credence. The misinformation bots are real.

This is very solid advise, but I fear it's going to take some serious phd work to untangle a lot of this mess and decades before we know what I wished we could know right now. The saliency and exigency of the moment demands we act now, but the fog of war robs us of our sight. Aiieee.

I didn't touch on it but we should also assume that Russia/Chinese bots or live actors are also pushing false narratives as well. We're under attack from within and without. I think this will be eventually lumped into the 6th generation warfare idea that appeared in the 90s. Maybe even a new theoretical 7th.

[LawBeefaroni]

Minneapolis now, supposedly after a murder suspect shot himself rather than be taken into custody. Don't know the whole story but unfortunately saw the video.

Rioting and looting commenced soon thereafter.

[malchior]

Minneapolis now, supposedly after a murder suspect shot himself rather than be taken into custody. Don't know the whole story but unfortunately saw the video.

Rioting and looting commenced soon thereafter.

The interesting narrative to me is that every act of looting and violence is tied by the right to BLM. We'll see if it is effective. Some on the left are trying an interesting tactic to defuse this. They are pointing out that Trump is running the country and this is happening under his watch. A dangerous strategy if he takes them up on the potential there.

Also this happened later on:

[malchior]

Ideally, someone will eventually piece all this together in a cohesive story for mass consumption because it's all there on twitter. You just have to sort through the noise to get the picture together.

And the NY Times did it. And did a good job of it. They found a good video that proves he was at both scenes and likely shot the three people. Interestingly there were other gunmen but they weren't engaging in direct combat.

[gbasden]

Ideally, someone will eventually piece all this together in a cohesive story for mass consumption because it's all there on twitter. You just have to sort through the noise to get the picture together.

And the NY Times did it. And did a good job of it. They found a good video that proves he was at both scenes and likely shot the three people. Interestingly there were other gunmen but they weren't engaging in direct combat.

It really is telling that this asshole shot three people (allegedly) and walked past police afterwards with an AR-15, not only unscathed, but unarrested, while another unarmed black man is dead. It puts tell to the whole police narrative.

[Montag]

The video of this incident is out there. This is not as cut in dry as stated in this thread so far. The video does not show activity ahead if this. It shows the shooter running, tripping, and then being attacked by the three he shot. The shooter is an idiot and needs to pay. The people who were shot were also contributors to what happened. The police should have a minimum detained the "person of interest" untill the incident was sorted, this should have resulted in an arrest. I do not think the protestor label should apply to those who were shot.

[LawBeefaroni]

The video of this incident is out there. This is not as cut in dry as stated in this thread so far. The video does not show activity ahead if this. It shows the shooter running, tripping, and then being attacked by the three he shot. The shooter is an idiot and needs to pay. The people who were shot were also contributors to what happened. The police should have a minimum detained the "person of interest" untill the incident was sorted, this should have resulted in an arrest. I do not think the protestor label should apply to those who were shot.

The shooter shot and killed someone before that. See malchior's post above with the Twitter thread.

It's more grey than initially thought but he's still the main escalator and he traveled to Kenosha to look for a fight. Even if you believe civilians have a duty to protect other people's commercial property with lethal force (?), its not the duty of an untrained, agitated 17-year-old. He had no business being there with that rifle.

[Montag]

The video of this incident is out there. This is not as cut in dry as stated in this thread so far. The video does not show activity ahead if this. It shows the shooter running, tripping, and then being attacked by the three he shot. The shooter is an idiot and needs to pay. The people who were shot were also contributors to what happened. The police should have a minimum detained the "person of interest" untill the incident was sorted, this should have resulted in an arrest. I do not think the protestor label should apply to those who were shot.

The shooter shot and killed someone before that. See malchior's post above with the Twitter thread.

It's more grey than initially thought but he's still the main escalator and he traveled to Kenosha to look for a fight. Even if you believe civilians have a duty to protect other people's commercial property with lethal force (?), its not the duty of an untrained, agitated 17-year-old. He had no business being there with that rifle.

100% in agreement on all points. Lack of trust in law enforcement is an everyone loses scenario with most subsequent actions making things worsened. If the fed administration was worthy, their intervention would be welcome, but it is the opposite of what is needed.

In general OO R and P forum is an echo chamber. Sadly with reason these days. I just wish to urge caution that people pause and think before they act like the groups they are cricizing. Not directed at anyone, but I think a recalibration is needed at times.

[malchior]

The video of this incident is out there. This is not as cut in dry as stated in this thread so far. The video does not show activity ahead if this. It shows the shooter running, tripping, and then being attacked by the three he shot. The shooter is an idiot and needs to pay. The people who were shot were also contributors to what happened. The police should have a minimum detained the "person of interest" untill the incident was sorted, this should have resulted in an arrest. I do not think the protestor label should apply to those who were shot.

The shooter shot and killed someone before that. See malchior's post above with the Twitter thread.

It's more grey than initially thought but he's still the main escalator and he traveled to Kenosha to look for a fight. Even if you believe civilians have a duty to protect other people's commercial property with lethal force (?), its not the duty of an untrained, agitated 17-year-old. He had no business being there with that rifle.

100% in agreement on all points. Lack of trust in law enforcement is an everyone loses scenario with most subsequent actions making things worsened. If the fed administration was worthy, their intervention would be welcome, but it is the opposite of what is needed.

In general OO R and P forum is an echo chamber. Sadly with reason these days. I just wish to urge caution that people pause and think before they act like the groups they are cricizing. Not directed at anyone, but I think a recalibration is needed at times.

I don't think it's a complete echo chamber. There is still a wide variance on the interpretation of many issues. It is however not populated with people who would still identify as being Trump supporters. That isn't a real surprise to be honest. There isn't much dialogue possible there nowadays unfortunately.

[Montag]

I am in the camp that a Trump supporter no longer is a rational person. Justifiably dismissive attitude?

[malchior]

I am in the camp that a Trump supporter no longer is a rational person. Justifiably dismissive attitude?

You do you.

My take is a little different. They could very well be rational but I likely wouldn't align on their morals and/or ethics.

[Jaymann]

I am in the camp that a Trump supporter no longer is a rational person. Justifiably dismissive attitude?

Not sure. Are Cro-Magnons considered rational?

[Blackhawk]

Lots of terrible people are smart, rational, and calculated.

[coopasonic]

Lots of terrible people are smart, rational, and calculated.

[Holman]

I am in the camp that a Trump supporter no longer is a rational person. Justifiably dismissive attitude?

QAnon types? No

Mitch McConnell? Absolutely