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Let's play veepstakes!
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- Kraken
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Let's play veepstakes!
It'll be moot in a month or so, but who do you think will become the princess? Beau makes a good case for Duckworth, so I'll open with her.
- gilraen
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I think I'm still leaning more toward Kamala Harris at this point, but this is like trying to predict the exact weather in 3 weeks. You have a general idea based on the season but a sudden atmospheric twist can throw you.
- Kraken
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Pretend a free chalupa* is on the line.
*no actual chalupas will be harmed by this post, as I don't even know what one is.
Since I just bullied myself into making a prediction, I'll go with Harris as the expected choice.
*no actual chalupas will be harmed by this post, as I don't even know what one is.
Since I just bullied myself into making a prediction, I'll go with Harris as the expected choice.
- Jaymann
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I voted for Warren, so I'm gonna go with...Harris.
Jaymann
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Black Lives Matter
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Black Lives Matter
- El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
70% chance of Harris.
Duckworth at this point is maybe 2nd or 3rd best chance, I think.
Duckworth at this point is maybe 2nd or 3rd best chance, I think.
Black Lives Matter.
- Holman
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Speaking of Duckworth, noted patriot-hero Tucker Carlson has accused her of being a coward who doesn't really love America.
Let that sink in.
Let that sink in.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- El Guapo
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- Jaymann
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Wait a minute, I thought "melting pot" was a thing.
Jaymann
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Black Lives Matter
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Black Lives Matter
- Unagi
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I'm pretty certain that from now on, the word heritage just means: racist legacy
- El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I mean, I think it meant that a fair percentage of the time before now, too.
Black Lives Matter.
- Unagi
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
It did, I'm certain - but I think it still tries to pretend it might mean 'history that's dear to your heart'.
- Kraken
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
So we're maybe a week away from finding out...do we still think it's Harris? Some of Biden's adviser/donors think she's too uppity.
Based purely on pundit chatter, I'd put it 50/50 between Harris and Rice.Some remain bitter about her attacks on Biden during primary debates last year, saying they bring into question her loyalty to the former vice president. Others argue that she’s too ambitious and that she will be solely focused on becoming president herself.
- Jaymann
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Uppity would probably not be my first choice of adjectives.
Jaymann
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Black Lives Matter
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- El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Just to be clear "uppity" is Kraken's description of the complaints, not anything attributed to a person in the article.
That said, the complaints in the article are pretty ridiculous - that she's ambitious and attacked Biden during a debate. Almost like she's someone who was running to become president.
Anyway, seems like the main contenders now are Harris, Duckworth, and Rice, with Harris probably still the favorite. I like her fine - competent, should help him more than she hurts him in the campaign. Rice I don't totally get - I think she'd be fine in office, but picking her is inviting all of the Chris Cillizza's of the world to write credulous articles on "unmasking" and spying on the Trump campaign.
Black Lives Matter.
- Kraken
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Yeah, the nature of the complaints are about an uppity woman. I'm on Team Harris at this point because I already got burned once on Team Warren. I'm not a big fan, but I do think she could handle the top job.
- El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
A lot of it also seems to be Biden advisers being butthurt about Harris's attack on Biden in the first debate. It was a debate, get over it. Characterizing it as "disloyal" is absurd too. She was his opponent, what was she supposed to do? If she attacked him *now* that would be a valid complaint, but what, was she supposed to drop out in the first debate and endorse him or something?
I will say that Harris's shitty campaigning during the primary is arguably a red flag, but I assume that Team Biden would make sure that her sister isn't running the campaign.
Black Lives Matter.
- gbasden
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I'm with you on Rice. I'm also not a fan of Harris. She's whip smart but doesn't seem to have any core principles. Ambition is fine, but I want someone more grounded and empathetic. I really like Duckworth. I still wish for Warren.El Guapo wrote: ↑Wed Jul 29, 2020 11:47 pm Anyway, seems like the main contenders now are Harris, Duckworth, and Rice, with Harris probably still the favorite. I like her fine - competent, should help him more than she hurts him in the campaign. Rice I don't totally get - I think she'd be fine in office, but picking her is inviting all of the Chris Cillizza's of the world to write credulous articles on "unmasking" and spying on the Trump campaign.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I saw an interesting poll result that only 20% of Democrats and 18% of Independents even care about the VP choice. I think the VP choice should come down to fundamentals because I don't think any of it actually matters. They'll get bad news cycles no matter what so the optimized approach would be to pick the best choice long-term. That will be a candidate who can defeat whatever nightmare bog creature emerges in 2024. The Cillizza less filling media types are going to pick some idiotic theme and run it down. For Harris, it'll be how being tough on crime is now a weakness. For, Rice it will be the "unmasking" or spin-a-wheel and choose a Obama foreign policy misstep to attack, Duckworth it'll be some cringeworthy exploration of whether we are ready for a disabled VP (ugh - I hate to even have thought this one up but it would happen), etc.El Guapo wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:01 amA lot of it also seems to be Biden advisers being butthurt about Harris's attack on Biden in the first debate. It was a debate, get over it. Characterizing it as "disloyal" is absurd too. She was his opponent, what was she supposed to do? If she attacked him *now* that would be a valid complaint, but what, was she supposed to drop out in the first debate and endorse him or something?
I will say that Harris's shitty campaigning during the primary is arguably a red flag, but I assume that Team Biden would make sure that her sister isn't running the campaign.
- Holman
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I was dubious about Rice when her name first came up, but perhaps I was just ignorant.
This week's Pod Save the World (hosted by two ex-Obama aides) makes a strong case that Rice would be a very good choice. They claim that despite her lack of elected experience, she has as much actual governing experience as anyone being considered. Most of all, she has personal relationships with many world leaders and is thus the perfect choice for Biden to send on a world tour to reassure allies that the Trump era is over.
This week's Pod Save the World (hosted by two ex-Obama aides) makes a strong case that Rice would be a very good choice. They claim that despite her lack of elected experience, she has as much actual governing experience as anyone being considered. Most of all, she has personal relationships with many world leaders and is thus the perfect choice for Biden to send on a world tour to reassure allies that the Trump era is over.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
- stessier
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I still hope it is Kamala Harris.
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- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Harris. Harris. Harris.
Not Susan Rice or Abrams or a Mayor.
My completely bonkers left-field pick would be part of a strategy to crush the GOP as we know it (and as the Lincoln Project is trying to do to a degree), and pick a moderate, pro-choice, non-climate denier, GOP member who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position. The pick has some issues with 9/11 and the patriot act, but has the experience required. It would really piss off the Progressive wing, but could get the Country to a far better place by 2024 and beyond.
Not Susan Rice or Abrams or a Mayor.
My completely bonkers left-field pick would be part of a strategy to crush the GOP as we know it (and as the Lincoln Project is trying to do to a degree), and pick a moderate, pro-choice, non-climate denier, GOP member who could short circuit all the partisan bs and misinformation and possibly undercut McConnell and shift the GOP towards a more moderate position. The pick has some issues with 9/11 and the patriot act, but has the experience required. It would really piss off the Progressive wing, but could get the Country to a far better place by 2024 and beyond.
Spoiler:
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:53 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
If it weren't for the misinformation machine, etc - sure, but a far, far better place for her would be Chief of Staff or SecState (positions chosen *after* the election). The GOP has already positioned her as a 2020 Hillary, and that would really give Trump and the GOP the boost they desperately are searching for.Holman wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 11:41 am I was dubious about Rice when her name first came up, but perhaps I was just ignorant.
This week's Pod Save the World (hosted by two ex-Obama aides) makes a strong case that Rice would be a very good choice. They claim that despite her lack of elected experience, she has as much actual governing experience as anyone being considered. Most of all, she has personal relationships with many world leaders and is thus the perfect choice for Biden to send on a world tour to reassure allies that the Trump era is over.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Alefroth
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- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
The same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Remus West
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I'd still vote for Biden if he did that only because the alternative is so unconscionable but I wouldn't be happy about it. I really want him to select someone I could see myself supporting in 4 years.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pmThe same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
“As democracy is perfected, the office of president represents, more and more closely, the inner soul of the people. On some great and glorious day the plain folks of the land will reach their heart's desire at last and the White House will be adorned by a downright moron.” - H.L. Mencken
- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Question, did you look at the link?Remus West wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:03 pmI'd still vote for Biden if he did that only because the alternative is so unconscionable but I wouldn't be happy about it. I really want him to select someone I could see myself supporting in 4 years.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pmThe same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
I think she could win you over. I doubt it will happen however, but that kind of thinking is going to be what we need if we ever want to get this country working together again.
While I'm all in on a lot of the Progressive agenda, and I do think Biden needs to chose someone who is ready to take the mantle of the party for 2024 (or sooner, he ain't young, and CV increases likelihood of death in office, IMHO), if the winds look like that kind of pick could divert the GOP from the Cotton/Carlson Trumpist wing for the rest of the 2020's (and maybe beyond), it could well be best for everyone. The thing is that VP is likely most important during the campaign, and not really for policy, and if she bought in and he trusted her, it could work.
It could also stop (or at least stall) the bi-polar pendulum swings we are having. Biden has said he'd a be one term President. So what does 2024 look like?
(Dem VP) Harris/Duckworth... vs Cotton/Carlson/Trump Jr.
or
AOC (as Bernie inheritor) /Buttigieg/Newsom/Harris vs. Condi/Haley
In which case are we no longer quite as bipolar, and have some better consistency in Government?
Last edited by Pyperkub on Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:38 pm, edited 2 times in total.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).
Condie Rice would be an interesting choice in another day and time, but not now. Remember, Biden is pretty fucking old, and with Covid especially helping the old find their final resting place, there is an elevated risk that the VEEP will need to finish the term. Nerfing the donkey agenda by assassinating Biden and having a Republican step in also becomes a hazard. Shit is too insane right now for this sort of gambit.
Now, from what I gather on FB, if BLM gets any more notoriety, the deplorables are in danger of having their tiny genitals simply shrivel up and fall off. Harris is my first choice, but her presence on the ballot will likely provide greater incentive for Trumptards to come out of the woodwork. Duckworth, OTOH, would probably result in the GOP falling on their own swords as any military vets left on their side will be disgusted by their attacks on a celebrated war veteran.
Condie Rice would be an interesting choice in another day and time, but not now. Remember, Biden is pretty fucking old, and with Covid especially helping the old find their final resting place, there is an elevated risk that the VEEP will need to finish the term. Nerfing the donkey agenda by assassinating Biden and having a Republican step in also becomes a hazard. Shit is too insane right now for this sort of gambit.
Now, from what I gather on FB, if BLM gets any more notoriety, the deplorables are in danger of having their tiny genitals simply shrivel up and fall off. Harris is my first choice, but her presence on the ballot will likely provide greater incentive for Trumptards to come out of the woodwork. Duckworth, OTOH, would probably result in the GOP falling on their own swords as any military vets left on their side will be disgusted by their attacks on a celebrated war veteran.
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- Kraken
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
There is a higher-than-usual chance that the VP will inherit the presidency during Biden's term and become the incumbent in '24 (i.e., Biden will die or step down), and an even higher chance that Biden will decline to seek reelection, making his veep the anointed one. Since she will have a strong chance of being set up as the first female POTUS, choosing a viable candidate is especially important.Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:54 pm It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).
- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
FWIW, I think there is a 0.01% of this happening (or lower) - She would have to be hitting the circuit to raise her profile and she isn't. The only way this is even remotely possible is if the actual pick dies before the election. I just think that at some point, someone is going to have to make a move similar to this to fix our Country and the completely broken GOP. Trump could have done it as well coming from his outsider position - it would have required nominating Garland and picking someone like OH's Kasich as VP - he had an opportunity to tack to the center, but instead has gone all in with the Nazi-racists.
I do think that now is maybe the most opportune time to do it, with the Lincoln Project Never-Trump Republicans practically begging for something, and the Trump approach showing just how completely broken and damaging to the Country the current GOP is. Something like this could (would?) get a lot of the GOP dark money flowing to both Biden and propping up true moderate GOP members who can actually govern w/o giving in to the Nazi/Racist wing. Wait until 2024, and the Nazi/Racist/Propaganda machine will have had plenty of opportunity to be attacking everything and ensuring that the cycle of bad GOP candidates/rule followed by Dems fixing stuff continues.
I do think that now is maybe the most opportune time to do it, with the Lincoln Project Never-Trump Republicans practically begging for something, and the Trump approach showing just how completely broken and damaging to the Country the current GOP is. Something like this could (would?) get a lot of the GOP dark money flowing to both Biden and propping up true moderate GOP members who can actually govern w/o giving in to the Nazi/Racist wing. Wait until 2024, and the Nazi/Racist/Propaganda machine will have had plenty of opportunity to be attacking everything and ensuring that the cycle of bad GOP candidates/rule followed by Dems fixing stuff continues.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- noxiousdog
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Condoleezza Rice has been very, very, very explicit she wants no part of the presidency.
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"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
- Alefroth
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I'm not optimistic that that is even close to what would happen.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pmThe same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
Getting Rice, Powell, and Romney to campaign for Biden would just be the end of their cred with the GOP. Providing they even want to.
- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
The Order of Cincinnatus. She may not want it, but if called, sometimes one needs to perform a duty.noxiousdog wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 3:29 pm Condoleezza Rice has been very, very, very explicit she wants no part of the presidency.
FWIW, I'd want no part of it either!
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Pyperkub
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Got any other ideas? IMHO, for the Country to be the best it can be, the current GOP needs be weaned away from the heroin-laced kool-ade they are currently addicted to, and I don't see many other ways which don't eventually involve bloodshed, and failure to do so probably leads to the GOP running a totalitarian state in perpetuity at some point.Alefroth wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 4:06 pmI'm not optimistic that that is even close to what would happen.Pyperkub wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 12:54 pmThe same way the Lincoln Project is. She could be a lever to get GOP members in Congress to break away from the Groupthink. They call her a RINO, and she points out how far they've strayed from their actual positions, and raises the question of what a true RINO is - one who follows the groupthink, or one who can place Country over Party and actually Govern.
Getting Rice, Powell, and Romney to campaign for Biden would just be the end of their cred with the GOP. Providing they even want to.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
- Holman
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
That's a hard No on Condoleeza Rice.
Not only does it imagine that persuadable Republicans still exist (or ones that would only vote Biden with Condie on the ticket), but it would be a huge slap in the face in the rising Progressive movement that is the future of the Democratic Party and so very necessary to deal with the twin megacrises of climate change and economic inequality. It would depress Dem turnout more than it would win GOP voters.
Plus it means acquiescence (rather than just amnesia) to the crimes of Bush administration.
Not only does it imagine that persuadable Republicans still exist (or ones that would only vote Biden with Condie on the ticket), but it would be a huge slap in the face in the rising Progressive movement that is the future of the Democratic Party and so very necessary to deal with the twin megacrises of climate change and economic inequality. It would depress Dem turnout more than it would win GOP voters.
Plus it means acquiescence (rather than just amnesia) to the crimes of Bush administration.
Win as Democrats and push Democratic policies, which are actually quite popular.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Exactly, which is why now is not the time to choose a candidate from the other party. While Rice is a conservative I could potentially support, there needs to be a massive bloodbath in the party before I'd say, "yeah, she can turn it around."Kraken wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 2:37 pmThere is a higher-than-usual chance that the VP will inherit the presidency during Biden's term and become the incumbent in '24 (i.e., Biden will die or step down), and an even higher chance that Biden will decline to seek reelection, making his veep the anointed one. Since she will have a strong chance of being set up as the first female POTUS, choosing a viable candidate is especially important.Jeff V wrote: ↑Thu Jul 30, 2020 1:54 pm It's been discussed before that VEEP isn't necessarily a stepping stone to a presidential run. The last one to do so successfully was Bush I, prior to that you have to go all the way back to Marty "Don't call me Marty" Van Buren. So I'm not that concerned that the VEEP candidate also be a viable 2024 presidential candidate, although given most of the likely choices, I expect they would be (whether they survive primaries depends how well the galvanize the party behind them).
If Biden is confident he can bring it home with Harris, then I support it 100%. If he feels his lead is shaky, though, perhaps Duckworth or another less-polarizing candidate is a better choice.
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
Another reason to reject a #NeverTrump GOP person is that there needs to be no question of the legitimacy of the Democratic candidate. They need to run on Democratic party policies and values. They need to win based on the brand.
- El Guapo
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I think this thread is probably the only place in the world where anyone is talking about Biden picking Condoleeza Rice for VP.
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- Fireball
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Re: Let's play veepstakes!
The notion that Condoleeza Rice would even be considered is laughable to the extreme. Biden would blow up his entire campaign through such a move, and would likely end up having the delegates revolt and put someone else on the ballot.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
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- El Guapo
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- Location: Boston
Re: Let's play veepstakes!
I stand corrected.
Nonetheless, it's never ever ever going to even come close to happening.
Nonetheless, it's never ever ever going to even come close to happening.
Black Lives Matter.