NFL 2019 - 20 Season with Playoffs

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:16 am

That was a fun game. I don't watch live, my friend knowing this sent me a facebook chat saying sorry they lost. I'm usually off the phone, but had to check something and saw his message as I was still in the 3rd qtr... I was livid the rest of the way until the last 30 seconds of the game. Called him up and told him good one, you got me, don't do it again

McNutt · Post by **McNutt** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 1:40 am

Baroquen wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 5:46 pm And how about that 49ers - Saints game? Wow... crazy finish.

As a Saints fan that was hard to watch. But it was an exciting game for sure.

Post by **ImLawBoy** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:18 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Fri Dec 06, 2019 12:23 am Imlawboy owes him an apology .

Don't hold your breath.

I could be nitpicky and point out that at least two of his big completions were 50/50 balls that could have easily been turnovers, but I'm just enjoying the win.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:23 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:06 pm So the Patriots wanted to make a point to the refs and it ended up costing them a TD since they were out of challenges. Maybe they'll rethink challenging meaningless plays next time.

Wait, what?

They challenged the spot of the ball on fourth down (which was clearly wrong by a full yard... so sayeth Romo and Nance) and a non called fumble that was over turned. Both were high leverage situations.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:52 am

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:23 am
Lorini wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:06 pm So the Patriots wanted to make a point to the refs and it ended up costing them a TD since they were out of challenges. Maybe they'll rethink challenging meaningless plays next time.
Wait, what?

They challenged the spot of the ball on fourth down (which was clearly wrong by a full yard... so sayeth Romo and Nance) and a non called fumble that was over turned. Both were high leverage situations.

The problem with that challenge as Romo said is the Chiefs would have still had a first down, they would have just been moved back a yard. I would disagree that moving the opposing team back one yard with a first down means much. If the Patriots don’t challenge for that yard, they would have been able to get the TD they should have gotten because they’d still have a challenge.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:18 am

Lorini wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:52 am
stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:23 am
Lorini wrote: ↑Sun Dec 08, 2019 8:06 pm So the Patriots wanted to make a point to the refs and it ended up costing them a TD since they were out of challenges. Maybe they'll rethink challenging meaningless plays next time.
Wait, what?

They challenged the spot of the ball on fourth down (which was clearly wrong by a full yard... so sayeth Romo and Nance) and a non called fumble that was over turned. Both were high leverage situations.
The problem with that challenge as Romo said is the Chiefs would have still had a first down, they would have just been moved back a yard. I would disagree that moving the opposing team back one yard with a first down means much. If the Patriots don’t challenge for that yard, they would have been able to get the TD they should have gotten because they’d still have a challenge.

It was unclear that they would have gotten the first down when it was challenged. They weren't just trying to make a point. The spot of the ball was absolutely wrong. How they didn't correct it is beyond me.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:40 am

I don't know stessier. Neither Nantz nor Romo thought they'd get a first down from the challenge and that's enough for me. I realize I'm the opposite of a Patriots fan but really if the announcers don't think it would have been a first down then I'm good with that, even had it been my team.

Or put another way, it was way too doubtful for a challenge there in my opinion. The chances were pretty high that they wouldn't be granted a first down, so why waste the challenge? The Patriots aren't known for bad challenges, I really felt like they were just trying to tell the refs they didn't like the reffing. But that's dangerous as they later saw.

Now of course it would have been better had the TD been called properly in the first place, but the ref was basically blocked from the play and called it as best he could.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:51 am

But if the refs moved the ball back a yard (which they absolutely should have done), then the challenge would have been considered successful whether or not the Chiefs ended up with a first down. It seemed like a pretty safe challenge to me and, as stessier has said, I have no idea how the refs didn't change the spot of the ball.

As for the TD called out of bounds, the refs clearly erred there. If you're unsure, why not just call it a TD since it will be automatically reviewed? Same with the fumble where the whistle blew. It was definitely a bad day for those refs...

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 12:15 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:51 am But if the refs moved the ball back a yard (which they absolutely should have done), then the challenge would have been considered successful whether or not the Chiefs ended up with a first down. It seemed like a pretty safe challenge to me and, as stessier has said, I have no idea how the refs didn't change the spot of the ball.

As for the TD called out of bounds, the refs clearly erred there. If you're unsure, why not just call it a TD since it will be automatically reviewed? Same with the fumble where the whistle blew. It was definitely a bad day for those refs...

Yes I get the fact that they could have made the TD call and then reviewed it but that is kind of gaming the system yes? I mean I can see doing it that way but perhaps the NFL has discouraged that? As far as the initial call I still don't see how that was worth doing but I think I'll just disagree with you folks. That's a Jon Gruden challenge if there ever was one and who wants to be like him??

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:25 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:51 am But if the refs moved the ball back a yard (which they absolutely should have done), then the challenge would have been considered successful whether or not the Chiefs ended up with a first down. It seemed like a pretty safe challenge to me and, as stessier has said, I have no idea how the refs didn't change the spot of the ball.

As for the TD called out of bounds, the refs clearly erred there. If you're unsure, why not just call it a TD since it will be automatically reviewed? Same with the fumble where the whistle blew. It was definitely a bad day for those refs...

I believe that spotting the ball replays are only considered successful challenges if the change results in either the award or removal of a first down.

NFL Rulebook wrote: ARTICLE 7. PLAYS GOVERNED BY THE LINE TO GAIN
The dead-ball spot is reviewable to determine whether it was short of, at, or beyond the line to gain.

Notes:

For purposes of a replay review, forward progress is determined when a player with control of the ball is controlled by an opponent and driven backwards.
A challenge is successful only if the ruling of whether a new series was awarded is changed, regardless of whether the ball was moved closer to the line to gain.
The dead-ball spot is not reviewable to determine solely whether it should be closer to or further from the line to gain.

Ralph-Wiggum · Post by **Ralph-Wiggum** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:38 pm

Huh. I could swear I've seen balls moved after review that didn't end up granting (or taking back) a first down and the team not being charged a TO.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 5:57 pm

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 7:13 pm

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:38 pm Huh. I could swear I've seen balls moved after review that didn't end up granting (or taking back) a first down and the team not being charged a TO.

They didn't get charged a time out as far as I understood it. They could only make one more challenge and they did, so when the botched call was made on the TD they were out of challenges. Had they not made the first challenge then they'd have still had two challenges.

Jon Gruden, coach of the Raiders is infamous for making challenges that are questionable or even stupid. The Patriot's challenge was not stupid but given the fact that it was still the second quarter, I'm saying it was not worth doing and hardly a meaningful challenge. If it's the fourth quarter and the score was what is was then sure, but it wasn't worth it there in my opinion.

Jaymann · Post by **Jaymann** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:49 pm

The Patriots are so worried about the 1-12 Bengals that they had to cheat again?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 10:55 pm

Assuming this is accurate (especially that the Browns were notified and approved of the taping), then there should be nothing to this. Apparently it's video for the Patriots "Do Your Job" video series, and this video / episode was about advance scouting (so they were taping the Patriots advance scout who was at the Browns - Bengals game). Also apparently the Browns (and, I suppose, the Patriots) neglected to inform the Bengals about this, so they flipped out when they saw the cameras.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:05 pm

Why are the Browns credentialing people to film at the Bengals stadium?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:29 pm

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:05 pm Why are the Browns credentialing people to film at the Bengals stadium?

The game was in Cleveland.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:41 pm

The Patriots said the producers screwed up and that the organization takes full responsibility. So we'll see what the NFL says.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:02 am

El Guapo wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:05 pm Why are the Browns credentialing people to film at the Bengals stadium?
The game was in Cleveland.

Then why are the Bengals freaking out about who’s filming in Cleveland?

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:07 am

Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:02 am
El Guapo wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote: ↑Mon Dec 09, 2019 11:05 pm Why are the Browns credentialing people to film at the Bengals stadium?
The game was in Cleveland.
Then why are the Bengals freaking out about who’s filming in Cleveland?

Apparently because the production team filmed (among other things) the Cincinnati sideline. Which they were not supposed to do (not part of filming the advance scout at work, for one thing). Question is going to be whether they were secretly directed to do that by the non-production people in the organization, I suppose.

Kurth · Post by **Kurth** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 4:29 am

Eagles WIN! Sad state of affairs that I'm excited by an OT win against the 2-11 Giants with Eli at the helm, but that's the sorry state of affairs of this team right now.

Oh, and we lost our best offensive tackle (Lane Johnson) to an ankle injury and our last serviceable -- and I'm being generous -- WR (Alshon Jeffrey) to what appears to be an achilles. Wonderful.

msteelers · Post by **msteelers** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:41 am

Those two last minute Wentz to Ertz TDs caused me to lose both in the fantasy playoffs and FanDuel this week.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:54 am

msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 10:41 am Those two last minute Wentz to Ertz TDs caused me to lose both in the fantasy playoffs and FanDuel this week.

I went into the game with a 67% win probability. China Doll Jeffrey caught no passes, and Ertz came up 5 points short of Slayton, who my opponent had. So ends a pretty craptastic season - I was shocked to find I had somehow squeaked into the last playoff spot.

Fretmute · Post by **Fretmute** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:18 pm

El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:07 amApparently because the production team filmed (among other things) the Cincinnati sideline. Which they were not supposed to do (not part of filming the advance scout at work, for one thing). Question is going to be whether they were secretly directed to do that by the non-production people in the organization, I suppose.

They've also used this excuse before.

ESPN, writing about the last time the Patriots got caught, wrote:The videographers also were provided with excuses for what to tell NFL security if asked what they were doing: Tell them you're filming the quarterbacks. Or the kickers. Or footage for a team show.

pr0ner · Post by **pr0ner** » Tue Dec 10, 2019 12:29 pm

I heard on local radio this morning (confirmed by this SI story based off of reporting from The Athletic) that the footage the Patriots turned over includes about 8 minutes of the Bengals sideline being filmed.

Paul Dehner Jr. of The Athletic shared some more news about the footage that was shot by the New England Patriots' film crew during Sunday's game between the Cincinnati Bengals and Cleveland Browns.

Dehner says that a source has shared with him that the footage confiscated from the Patriots employees shows about eight minutes of film that is solely of the Bengals' sideline.

"According to sources who have viewed the tape, it shows about eight minutes of footage focusing on recording the Bengals’ sideline. It’s a direct view of the sideline as players run on and off the field and coaches make signals for plays."

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Thu Dec 12, 2019 1:33 pm

CNN

Former Pro Bowl running back Clinton Portis and other retired NFL players have been charged by a federal grand jury with defrauding the NFL's retiree health care benefits plan for more than $3 million, according to two indictments unsealed Thursday.

"Ten former NFL players allegedly committed a brazen, multi-million dollar fraud on a health care plan meant to help their former teammates and other retired players pay legitimate, out-of-pocket medical expenses," Assistant Attorney General Brian Benczkowski said in a statement.

The former NFL players allegedly submitted fraudulent health care claims seeking to be reimbursed for expensive medical equipment that was never purchased, typically about $40,000 to $50,000 per claim, court records show.

The equipment included hyperbaric oxygen chambers, ultrasound machines designed for a doctor's office to conduct women's health examinations, and electromagnetic therapy devices made for horses, prosecutors said.

In addition, some defendants personally profited by receiving reimbursements from the plan or by recruiting other retired players to participate in the scheme in exchange for kickbacks and bribes, the indictments say. The claims relied on fabricated invoices, prescriptions and letters of medical necessity, prosecutors said.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:42 am

I hate trap games.

Sent from my SM-G975U using Tapatalk

Remus West · Post by **Remus West** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 9:57 am

Damned Lions. Sucked so badly they cost me my FF playoffs. Isn't it enough for them to destroy my real life NFL dreams every year? Did they have to step it up and destroy my FF ones as well? This year marks the second year in a row I will go down in the semis with the second highest score of the year. Crap. Just stop one of those damned wide open TD passes by maybe covering a little and my 6 point margin of loss becomes a 1 point margin of victory (yardage loss would cost him a point too). Stupid Lions. They looked better at any given point in 2008 than they did in the first half yesterday. Pathetic.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:33 am

I just read that Stephon Gilmore now has more TDs (2) than any receiver that he's covered this year. So...he's been pretty good.

Also, my son said yesterday that he would root for the Ravens or the Chiefs ahead of the Patriots in any playoff matchups this year, on account of liking Lamar Jackson and Patrick Mahomes. Which like...not my choice, although I really enjoy both Jackson and Mahomes, so I can't begrudge him that choice entirely.

Jeff V · Post by **Jeff V** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:35 am

What the Bears thought they had last season turned out to be an illusion. Since they mortgaged their future to chase that illusion. we once again have years of suck to look forward to. With our other winter sports teams competing for top draft picks, looks like this winter is going to be a sports-free one.

Lorini · Post by **Lorini** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 10:47 am

I guess giving QB's big money ruins them. Goff has been at best halfway decent and mostly terrible.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 11:53 am

The Bills have their first 10-win season since 1999 and will get only their second playoff appearance since then.

Pittsburgh will likely finish 9-7, splitting Jets and Ravens, and get in, as the Titans will probably lose out against the Saints and Texans.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:06 pm

I wouldn't be so quick to write off the Titans...they are feisty. I could see them beating HOU in the rematch.

Congrats to the Bills, though. They are annoyingly refusing to fold.

coopasonic · Post by **coopasonic** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 12:21 pm

If the Bills can beat the Patriots I might take an interest in the playoffs. They won't and I probably wouldn't watch anyway. The Thanksgiving game is the first time I have watched the Bills this millennia. Once you're dreams have been crushed the ways the Bills have crushed mine it's hard to keep coming back.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:14 pm

Unfortunately, the Bills beating the Patriots is probably not a very good barometer. It doesn't even decide the division (the Patriots just have to win one of Buffalo/Miami to claim the division and both are at home). I'm firmly in the one and done camp for the Patriots this year.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:22 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:14 pm Unfortunately, the Bills beating the Patriots is probably not a very good barometer. It doesn't even decide the division (the Patriots just have to win one of Buffalo/Miami to claim the division and both are at home). I'm firmly in the one and done camp for the Patriots this year.

One can hope.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:34 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:14 pm Unfortunately, the Bills beating the Patriots is probably not a very good barometer. It doesn't even decide the division (the Patriots just have to win one of Buffalo/Miami to claim the division and both are at home). I'm firmly in the one and done camp for the Patriots this year.

Local radio suggests the Pats are rubbish but if they get a buy, that extra week's rest, and an extra week of Belichick casting voodoo then all bets are off (literally). The belief is that you are still rubbish but no one is comfortable betting against you. If you don't get the buy, then you're just a place holder for a week.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:36 pm

LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:34 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:14 pm Unfortunately, the Bills beating the Patriots is probably not a very good barometer. It doesn't even decide the division (the Patriots just have to win one of Buffalo/Miami to claim the division and both are at home). I'm firmly in the one and done camp for the Patriots this year.
Local radio suggests the Pats are rubbish but if they get a buy, that extra week's rest, and an extra week of Belichick casting voodoo then all bets are off (literally). The belief is that you are still rubbish but no one is comfortable betting against you. If you don't get the buy, then you're just a place holder for a week.

The offense is rubbish. The defense is simply amazing. If they play a running team, they are toast. If they can get a big lead and force the other team to throw, though, all bets are off.

naednek · Post by **naednek** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:16 pm

First thing first, I know Julio Jone's catch was a TD as the ball cleared the plane. I'm not making excuses...

What's the rule for replays under 2 minutes?

My understanding is the following...

Coaches can't challenge inside the 2 minutes

All scoring plays are automatically reviewed.

Julio's catch wasn't ruled as a scoring play, it was initially ruled as being short down. Clock would have ran down to 0 before the next play. However ref's stopped the clock and reviewed and reversed the call (again I agree with the ruling, it was a TD)

My point though is that it wasn't a scoring play, it was ruled as being down. The previously play involoving hooper is a scoring play as it was initially ruled as a scoring play. It was reversed as he didn't maitained controlled.

Are all plays inside the 2 minutes reviewable by the ref's?

I'm more arguing the spirit of the rule, not whining about the outcome. Niners made some stupid moves in the last 3 minutes of the game and lost fair and square.

El Guapo · Post by **El Guapo** » Mon Dec 16, 2019 2:24 pm

stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:36 pm
LordMortis wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:34 pm
stessier wrote: ↑Mon Dec 16, 2019 1:14 pm Unfortunately, the Bills beating the Patriots is probably not a very good barometer. It doesn't even decide the division (the Patriots just have to win one of Buffalo/Miami to claim the division and both are at home). I'm firmly in the one and done camp for the Patriots this year.
Local radio suggests the Pats are rubbish but if they get a buy, that extra week's rest, and an extra week of Belichick casting voodoo then all bets are off (literally). The belief is that you are still rubbish but no one is comfortable betting against you. If you don't get the buy, then you're just a place holder for a week.
The offense is rubbish. The defense is simply amazing. If they play a running team, they are toast. If they can get a big lead and force the other team to throw, though, all bets are off.

Mostly I'm just unsure how the Patriots could beat Baltimore. I don't think that they're a lock to beat any playoff team, but the defense is good enough to win them most games, especially if they get a break or two on offense. But it's really hard for me to see how they can beat Baltimore even on a good day.