[Movies] Avengers: Infinity War, Parts I & II [SPOILERS!!!]

[El Guapo]

Still not sure why Dr. Strange never used the time stone in any of his fights, though.

Perhaps...

Spoiler:

It's because he doesn't have it.

Spoiler:

Thanos used it to bring back Vision. I don't think this is going to follow the comics where someone slips him a fake infinity stone. The snap wouldn't have worked.

Strange did use the stone in the fight. He looked ahead to find the one timeline where the heroes win, and knew that he had to give up the stone to Thanos to keep Stark alive. He did what he could to stay on the good timeline. Now that he's gone it's up to the rest of the good guys to make the right choices.

Yeah, but in the fights with Thanos or the earlier fights with the evil Thanos sorcerer dude. Why not use it to go back to when they were about to take the glove off of Thanos? And more generally (especially the sorcerer fight) - it's like having a do-over for any bad move. Why not use it essentially every single time you get hit or you miss?

[msteelers]

Still not sure why Dr. Strange never used the time stone in any of his fights, though.

Perhaps...

Spoiler:

It's because he doesn't have it.

Spoiler:

Thanos used it to bring back Vision. I don't think this is going to follow the comics where someone slips him a fake infinity stone. The snap wouldn't have worked.

Strange did use the stone in the fight. He looked ahead to find the one timeline where the heroes win, and knew that he had to give up the stone to Thanos to keep Stark alive. He did what he could to stay on the good timeline. Now that he's gone it's up to the rest of the good guys to make the right choices.

Yeah, but in the fights with Thanos or the earlier fights with the evil Thanos sorcerer dude. Why not use it to go back to when they were about to take the glove off of Thanos? And more generally (especially the sorcerer fight) - it's like having a do-over for any bad move. Why not use it essentially every single time you get hit or you miss?

Presumably he would have seen that getting the gauntlet off Thanos wouldn't have ended with them winning.

Also, in the Dr. Strange film they imply that using the time stone is dangerous and can have a lot of unintended consequences.

Baron Mordo: Stop! Tampering with continuum probabilities is forbidden!
Dr. Stephen Strange: I-I-I was just doing exactly what it said in the book!
Wong: And what did the book say about the dangers of performing that ritual?
Dr. Stephen Strange: I don't know, I hadn't gotten to that part yet.
Baron Mordo: Temporal manipulations can create branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings. Spatial paradoxes! Time loops! You wanna get stuck reliving the same moment over and over forever or never having existed at all?
Dr. Stephen Strange: They really should put the warnings before this spell.

[El Guapo]

Still not sure why Dr. Strange never used the time stone in any of his fights, though.

Perhaps...

Spoiler:

It's because he doesn't have it.

Spoiler:

Thanos used it to bring back Vision. I don't think this is going to follow the comics where someone slips him a fake infinity stone. The snap wouldn't have worked.

Strange did use the stone in the fight. He looked ahead to find the one timeline where the heroes win, and knew that he had to give up the stone to Thanos to keep Stark alive. He did what he could to stay on the good timeline. Now that he's gone it's up to the rest of the good guys to make the right choices.

Yeah, but in the fights with Thanos or the earlier fights with the evil Thanos sorcerer dude. Why not use it to go back to when they were about to take the glove off of Thanos? And more generally (especially the sorcerer fight) - it's like having a do-over for any bad move. Why not use it essentially every single time you get hit or you miss?

Presumably he would have seen that getting the gauntlet off Thanos wouldn't have ended with them winning.

Also, in the Dr. Strange film they imply that using the time stone is dangerous and can have a lot of unintended consequences.

Baron Mordo: Stop! Tampering with continuum probabilities is forbidden!
Dr. Stephen Strange: I-I-I was just doing exactly what it said in the book!
Wong: And what did the book say about the dangers of performing that ritual?
Dr. Stephen Strange: I don't know, I hadn't gotten to that part yet.
Baron Mordo: Temporal manipulations can create branches in time. Unstable dimensional openings. Spatial paradoxes! Time loops! You wanna get stuck reliving the same moment over and over forever or never having existed at all?
Dr. Stephen Strange: They really should put the warnings before this spell.

He did that a lot in the fight with Dormamu, IIRC.

I do wonder, though, if letting Thanos complete the gauntlet was on the only timeline where they win, why did Dr. Strange participate in the ambush of Thanos to begin with?

[Isgrimnur]

Because presumably just handing it to him was one of the failure timelines.

[El Guapo]

Because presumably just handing it to him was one of the failure timelines.

I suppose if he just offered it up to Thanos, then Thanos might figure out that something was up and adjust accordingly, but by giving it to him to "save" Stark, Thanos wouldn't blink twice (because that's what every other goddamn hero in the movie does).

Why wouldn't destroying the time stone necessarily preclude Thanos winning, though? From the movie it sounds like if Thanos gets 5/6 time stones, he's out of luck regarding destroying half the universe.

[Isgrimnur]

Strange is sworn to protect tie Time Stone. One would expect that destroying it would be off the menu. Especially given that he basically said that he would sacrifice Tony and Peter to protect it.

[El Guapo]

Strange is sworn to protect tie Time Stone. One would expect that destroying it would be off the menu. Especially given that he basically said that he would sacrifice Tony and Peter to protect it.

Yeah, that's what he tells Stark at the beginning of the movie. But still - there's no "except as necessary to preserve the lives of half the universe" escape clause?

[Isgrimnur]

Well, when we get the director's cut that shows all 14 million alternate scenes, we can get a better idea.

[msteelers]

Did Strange and Stark have the ability to destroy the time stone? They destroyed the mind stone only because Scarlet Witch’s powers also came from the mind stone.

[Kasey Chang]

Looper has a list of all the theories. DO NOT READ if you don't want to be spoiled.

Spoiler:

1. Nebula got the gauntlet just like in the comics
2. Dr. Strange messed with the time stone before handing it over
3. Gamora's not really dead, everybody's just trapped in the soul stone
4. Stormbreaker, in the comics, did allow time travel...
5. Wakanda is linked to Vormir through the vibranium...
6. Shuri 'backed up" Vision before he went kaput.
7. Captain Marvel saved the day
8. Strange saved Stark for a reason... It's his destiny?
9. Thanos managed to screw himself
10. Hank Pym and Ant Man and Wasp go Quantum realm "where time has no meaning"
11. Did Loki have a plan when he sent the Aether to Knowhere? Did he really die? Where is the Collector any way?
12. Could it all have been a dream? Remember, Thanos simply "woke up" holding the stone.
http://www.looper.com/120410/infinity-w ... -reversed/

[El Guapo]

Did Strange and Stark have the ability to destroy the time stone? They destroyed the mind stone only because Scarlet Witch’s powers also came from the mind stone.

That's not clear, although if there was no possible way to destroy the time stone, I would think that Strange would mention that during the discussion over destroying the time stone.

[Victoria Raverna]

Maybe the reason why Thanos had to do the snap is because the snap killed Thanos? Maybe Thanos was one of the random half that got killed by the snap.

Maybe Dr Strange saw that stopping Thanos from completing the gauntlet will not stop Thanos. If the can't snap away half of the universe, he is just going to find another way or to do it the hard way. There are millions of way for Thanos to kill at least half of the population but only one way that can be reversed?

[Ralph-Wiggum]

Maybe the reason why Thanos had to do the snap is because the snap killed Thanos? Maybe Thanos was one of the random half that got killed by the snap.

But we know this didn't happen because we see Thanos watching a sunset at the end of the movie, right?

[Victoria Raverna]

Maybe the reason why Thanos had to do the snap is because the snap killed Thanos? Maybe Thanos was one of the random half that got killed by the snap.

But we know this didn't happen because we see Thanos watching a sunset at the end of the movie, right?

What if all of those got killed by the snap are now in their version of heaven?

[stessier]

If Thanos had killed himself by the luck of the draw with the Snap, he probably would have been fine with it. Which is why he's such a good villain - he's a True Believer.

[El Guapo]

If Thanos had killed himself by the luck of the draw with the Snap, he probably would have been fine with it. Which is why he's such a good villain - he's a True Believer.

Although by his logic, wouldn't he need to stick around so as to be available to do another snap once life grows out of control again?

[Daehawk]

I haven't saw this but know about the end and parts . But Im a little confused as to Captain Marvel. First I thought that was a male and also I thought that was also Shazam. So its a girl and theres 2 character super heroes with the same name? I need to look up their powers because if its not Shazam I thought they were basically marvel's version of Superman. Nothing so special they could help with Thanos.

[Isgrimnur]

Captain Marvel / Shazam is DC.

The current MCU character is Captain (formerly Ms.) Marvel / Carol Danvers.

Ms. Marvel is now Kamala Khan in the comics.

[stessier]

If Thanos had killed himself by the luck of the draw with the Snap, he probably would have been fine with it. Which is why he's such a good villain - he's a True Believer.

Although by his logic, wouldn't he need to stick around so as to be available to do another snap once life grows out of control again?

Someone would need to be around with the gauntlet. Didn't have to be him. Would have been an interesting choice for him I guess.

[Kasey Chang]

Captain Marvel / Shazam is DC.

The URL got chopped off.

https://www.wikiwand.com/en/Captain_Marvel_(DC_Comics)

[El Guapo]

One other minor thing - in the Wakanda fight, when they realize that the horde of monsters is trying to circle around them, and T'Challa opens the gate in response - that was incredibly stupid. Like, they can STILL circle around if that's to their advantage. All T'Challa did is give them another option in addition to that, and put his solders in unnecessary danger. Why not just have some of your flying superheroes circle around and protect the sides / back?

[Isgrimnur]

You need to go watch 300 again.

[gameoverman]

One other minor thing - in the Wakanda fight, when they realize that the horde of monsters is trying to circle around them, and T'Challa opens the gate in response - that was incredibly stupid. Like, they can STILL circle around if that's to their advantage. All T'Challa did is give them another option in addition to that, and put his solders in unnecessary danger. Why not just have some of your flying superheroes circle around and protect the sides / back?

I made the assumption these weren't troops, as in thinking combat personnel. I thought they were more like war elephants or something, creatures you unleash and hope they more or less overwhelm you're enemy. Going around wasn't a tactical move on their part, it was a natural progression based on their aggressive nature. They charge right at you, if there's a barrier they start moving along the barrier one way or another until they find a way in. The other thing is that the object the Avengers were protecting was behind them. So the last thing they'd want is to allow the fight to shift in that direction. It was better to keep themselves between the creatures and their base, which means letting them in at that one spot.

[hentzau]

Read a snippet of an interview with Gwynneth Paltrow. Apparently she let something slip that could be a bit of a spoiler for Avengers IV:

Spoiler:

I don't have the exact quote, but it mentioned Tony and Pepper having a child and time having passed. So the next movie may open up with a considerable amount of time passing since the events in A:IW.

Ah. Found the quote.

“And now this decade later they’re married, and they have a child.”

If it does open up like a decade later, that's kind of cool. IMO.

[Skinypupy]

Just got back. I went in 100% spoiler free, with my only knowledge being what was shown in the trailers.

Lots to process, but I really, really enjoyed it. Honestly, I was not expecting ANY of that. I was more than a little bit surprised when the credits rolled because

Spoiler:

I figured we still had to get to the big battle that the heroes ultimately won and saved the day. Simply cutting away after everyone dies was just...dayum. I was just in shock. Now, I actually thought this was the last Avengers film (I don't follow this stuff very closely), so knowing that there's one more has lessened that feeling a lot. Really interested to see if/how they undo all of that.

A few random thoughts:

1. Thanos was a fantastic villain.
2. That was far more Guardians-centric than I was expecting. Not a bad thing, mind you, but I was a little surprised.
3. Tom Holland is a wonderful Spiderman. I've avoided all of those films after absolutely hating the first one, but will have to check out the latest. Interesting that he apparently improved that final scene.
4. Dave Bautista is a goddamned national treasure.
5. I didn't notice this, but Mrs. Skinypupy mentioned how when we see the mangled Infinity Gauntlet after The Snap(tm), the glow had gone out of all the Infinity Stones. Was that use of power just a one-time thing?
6. Seeing Thor in his full glory was a thing of beauty. Half the theater started cheering when he showed up in Wakanda.
7. Not sure if this was posted already, but Groot's last words to Rocket were apparently "Dad". I'M NOT CRYING, YOU'RE CRYING!

While I've grown increasingly bored with superhero movies in general, the last two I've seen (Black Panther and Avengers IW) have me all in again. Thought they did an excellent job with this one.

[McNutt]

I didn't know it was going to be a two parter. I kept expecting Elizabeth Olsens character to destroy the gems on the glove.

I guess it would help if I had any idea what her powers are. From the movies, I have no clue. In the second Avengers movie I thought she could do things with people's minds. Now she's flying around shooting lasers out of her hand. I mean I guess so...

[stessier]

3. Tom Holland is a wonderful Spiderman. I've avoided all of those films after absolutely hating the first one, but will have to check out the latest.

Not sure which was your "first one", but Homecoming is really good and a lot of fun.

[Blackhawk]

I didn't know it was going to be a two parter. I kept expecting Elizabeth Olsens character to destroy the gems on the glove.

I guess it would help if I had any idea what her powers are. From the movies, I have no clue. In the second Avengers movie I thought she could do things with people's minds. Now she's flying around shooting lasers out of her hand. I mean I guess so...

I'm not a Marvel person, but I'm very close to one. From what I understand, Scarlet Witch can do damned near whatever she wants. Her powers are tied to altering reality, whether that is messing with someone's mind or their molecular structure (hand lasers), or gravity (flying.) I do know that she's considered one of the most powerful characters in the Marvel universe, and that there was a whole storyline dealing with the X-Men and Avengers getting together to figure out how to handle her potential, which was in some way complicated by her father:

Spoiler:

Magneto

[Blackhawk]

I just saw it yesterday, finally. I loved the film, but the ending was actually kind of a let-down.

All through the build up to this, it was given as a granted that some of the characters would die. I prepared for that, for the emotional impact of having Cap torn apart, or having Thor's last stand.

Spoiler:

When it actually got there, though, none of them did. The only deaths were the psuedo-deaths of those characters who poofed. And the point where that sank home was with Black Panther. The second he poofed, I was confused for a split second, but then I realized that none of it was for keeps and it sort of stopped mattering. Now, there will be deaths. But it turned out that Infinity War wasn't the deaths, it was the setup for the deaths in the follow-up.

And that, to me at least, took a lot of the impact out of it.

As I said, though, it was a fantastic movie. I managed to not get a single spoiler, so I went into it with nothing but the hype. I'd have preferred, in this case, to not have had that.

[Skinypupy]

3. Tom Holland is a wonderful Spiderman. I've avoided all of those films after absolutely hating the first one, but will have to check out the latest.

Not sure which was your "first one", but Homecoming is really good and a lot of fun.

The very first one with Toby Mcguire. Still my least favorite of all the superhero movies (including all the DC garbage), by a mile.

[msteelers]

What? You’re broken. The Toby Spider-Man movie was great for its time.

[Skinypupy]

When it comes to superhero movies, I am for sure. There's only a few that I can say I really actively enjoyed. The first and this most recent Avengers, Deadpool, Dark Knight, Wonder Woman, Guardians, and Black Panther are about it. Everything else, I've come away from with a resounding 'meh'. There's only a few I truly dislike (the first and second Spiderman, Justice League), but I'm generally ambivalent towards most of them.

Even the ones that most people rave about (Ant Man, Logan, Thor Ragnarok, and Dr. Strange come to mind, most recently), I only find mildly entertaining. That said, I still end up watching them because they ultimately tie into the ones that do 'click', and I like to know what's going on in the universe.

[Blackhawk]

The McGuire Spider-Man film was 16 years and two reboots ago. I has absolutely nothing to do with current super hero films.

[Paingod]

Saw this Saturday, loved it.

It felt really rushed except around the combat, but that rush didn't make me feel like I was missing a lot. More like a sense of urgency.
The CGI needed some help here and there, in particular when they tried to blend human actors and CGI, but was overall good. That's really it for nit-picks, aside from...

Spoiler:

Thanos suddenly "loving" Gomorrah when it became convenient for the plot. Absolutely nothing up until then gave any indication that their relationship was anything other than brutal stepfather and abused step-daughter, unless I missed something.

[hepcat]

What? You’re broken. The Toby Spider-Man movie was great for its time.

Yup. It was outstanding. Spider-Man 2 still stands as one of the examples of a sequel being just as good, if not better, than its predecessor.

It’s too bad they never made a third one.

[El Guapo]

What? You’re broken. The Toby Spider-Man movie was great for its time.

Yup. It was outstanding. Spider-Man 2 still stands as one of the examples of a sequel being just as good, if not better, than its predecessor.

It’s too bad they never made a third one.

The correct and objectively true opinion here is that Spider-Man 1 (with Tobey) was well done and enjoyable. It probably doesn't hold up against the better superhero movies of recent years, but great for its time, and well done.

Spider-Man 2 is well liked but overrated. Too long, a lot of dumb jokes, and a boring plot.

Spider-Man 3 was used against our enemies in Iraq and Afghanistan before an international tribunal in the Hague deemed doing so a war crime.

[hepcat]

you're just mad they didn't go with your fan script, "Paste Pot Pete: The Pastening " for 2.

[El Guapo]

you're just mad they didn't go with your fan script, "Paste Pot Pete: The Pastening " for 2.

Pfff. You're the one focused on that loser. My sophisticated screenplay centers around a MUCH more interesting and nuanced character:

[gilraen]

Spoiler:

Thanos suddenly "loving" Gomorrah when it became convenient for the plot. Absolutely nothing up until then gave any indication that their relationship was anything other than brutal stepfather and abused step-daughter, unless I missed something.

It was somewhat implied when you contrast how he had treated Nebula - maiming and torturing her throughout her life - with how he had treated Gamora. Whatever semblance of affection he could muster, he projected it unto Gamora.

[McNutt]

I thought Thanos was a complex character. I agree though that the switch from megalomaniac to tortured savior was pretty quick and could have been done a little better.