New Lesson Same as the Old Lesson

Poleaxe · Post by **Poleaxe** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:17 am

This post will be short and sweet.

You can't conceed the entire south and win the presidency. It just leaves too thin a margin for error. Putting up a Mass. liberal who protested against a foreign war isn't even giving yourself a chance in the south.

It's not even that the democratic party needs to move to the right, it's that the nomination process needs to stop vetting candidates based on their far left convictions.

My opinion is this:
The country as a whole is center/right and fiscally conservative/socially moderate. Fiscal issues trump social issues, and lefty wackos are scarier for the center than religious right wackos- possibly because the moderates are church goers as well, if less dogmatic.

Note: this is a process post, not a gloat post.

Anonymous Bosch · Post by **Anonymous Bosch** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:29 am

Not to worry, I'm sure Hillary Clinton will lead the Democrats to victory in the south next go around.

Spike · Post by **Spike** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:56 am

Poleaxe wrote:My opinion is this:
The country as a whole is center/right and fiscally conservative/socially moderate. Fiscal issues trump social issues, and lefty wackos are scarier for the center than religious right wackos- possibly because the moderates are church goers as well, if less dogmatic.

My opinion:
The whole US is right/centre (slight difference, leaning more to the right than the centre). The 'lefty wackos' are scarier because they're an unknown to right-wingers, as opposed to religious and/or gun-toting right wackos, who are their next-door neighbours.

I suggest electing a chinchilla. It'll make life much easier and at least no one would be embarrassed at having to clean up its crap.

Marik · Post by **Marik** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 8:43 am

I couldn't agree more, and it boggles the mind how this keeps slipping the minds of the bozos who pick the democratic hopefuls. Ever since Mr Washington himselft, it has been well understood that the south loves a southerner. His or her politics are mildly important, but that southern accent and home state pull are solid gold in a tight election. Uncharismatic north eastern liberals aren't going to cut it.

Ah well. Hopefully getting our anal virginity roughly taken in pretty much every vote that mattered this year will shake up the democratic party. You know it is bad when all the BBC can say is that it *could* have been worse for the democrats...

...and did anyone else catch that Obama was hitting the spotlight pretty hard last night? Methinks we have a hopeful in four years. We'll have to see what he does with his next few years.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:03 pm

It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:06 pm

Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.

Or hope won over fear. It's all about perspective.

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:18 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Or hope won over fear. It's all about perspective.

Bush ran on the fear that we'll be attacked again. Kerry ran on the idea that we will never be attacked again.

Austin · Post by **Austin** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 12:27 pm

Dirt wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Or hope won over fear. It's all about perspective.
Bush ran on the fear that we'll be attacked again. Kerry ran on the idea that we will never be attacked again.

No... Kerry ran on, if we get attacked we will react.

geezer · Post by **geezer** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 1:43 pm

Austin wrote:
Dirt wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Or hope won over fear. It's all about perspective.
Bush ran on the fear that we'll be attacked again. Kerry ran on the idea that we will never be attacked again.
No... Kerry ran on, if we get attacked we will react.

Which I happen to think is a reasonable philosophy.. but c'est la vie

Quaro · Post by **Quaro** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 2:13 pm

Fiscal Issues trump social issues? The data points I've seen show voters claiming 'moral issues' over the economy/Iraq/terrorism. Gay marriage, stem cells, and partial birth abortion was very effective in bringing out the evangelical base. Indeed that was Rove's admitted strategy.

Poleaxe · Post by **Poleaxe** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 4:56 pm

Quaro wrote:Fiscal Issues trump social issues? The data points I've seen show voters claiming 'moral issues' over the economy/Iraq/terrorism. Gay marriage, stem cells, and partial birth abortion was very effective in bringing out the evangelical base. Indeed that was Rove's admitted strategy.

All that means is that the economy wasn't an issue this election. Despite what many here from the left have said, confidence in the economy seems pretty strong.

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:28 pm

Poleaxe wrote:
Quaro wrote:Fiscal Issues trump social issues? The data points I've seen show voters claiming 'moral issues' over the economy/Iraq/terrorism. Gay marriage, stem cells, and partial birth abortion was very effective in bringing out the evangelical base. Indeed that was Rove's admitted strategy.
All that means is that the economy wasn't an issue this election. Despite what many here from the left have said, confidence in the economy seems pretty strong.

Or they may believe their faith will help them get through hard economic times. Someone in the lab talked to his mom who lives in West Virginia. He had voted for Kerry and cited his positions regarding the "big picture". His mom though was more concerned with various "moral" issues, particularly abortion. When asked about the economy, health care, etc. she said that it (abortion) was an issue important to her and her faith would help in hard times. Now people may mock that, but it can be a source of strength for people, especially since the "Gov" no matter what party controls it may not be able to help you at all and all you may be left with is your community and your church.

Poleaxe · Post by **Poleaxe** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:37 pm

siljanus wrote:
Poleaxe wrote:
Quaro wrote:Fiscal Issues trump social issues? The data points I've seen show voters claiming 'moral issues' over the economy/Iraq/terrorism. Gay marriage, stem cells, and partial birth abortion was very effective in bringing out the evangelical base. Indeed that was Rove's admitted strategy.
All that means is that the economy wasn't an issue this election. Despite what many here from the left have said, confidence in the economy seems pretty strong.
Or they may believe their faith will help them get through hard economic times. Someone in the lab talked to his mom who lives in West Virginia. He had voted for Kerry and cited his positions regarding the "big picture". His mom though was more concerned with various "moral" issues, particularly abortion. When asked about the economy, health care, etc. she said that it (abortion) was an issue important to her and her faith would help in hard times. Now people may mock that, but it can be a source of strength for people, especially since the "Gov" no matter what party controls it may not be able to help you at all and all you may be left with is your community and your church.

But is the mom a conservative or a moderate?

Smoove_B · Post by **Smoove_B** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:42 pm

Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.

Was a fear vote? I thought it was a moral vote.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:43 pm

Smoove_B wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Was a fear vote? I thought it was a moral vote.

Maybe they fear his morals?

Dirt · Post by **Dirt** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:51 pm

noxiousdog wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Was a fear vote? I thought it was a moral vote.
Maybe they fear his morals?

You mean the one where he'll say or imply anything to get his way?

$iljanus · Post by **$iljanus** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:55 pm

Poleaxe wrote:
siljanus wrote:
Poleaxe wrote:
Quaro wrote:Fiscal Issues trump social issues? The data points I've seen show voters claiming 'moral issues' over the economy/Iraq/terrorism. Gay marriage, stem cells, and partial birth abortion was very effective in bringing out the evangelical base. Indeed that was Rove's admitted strategy.
All that means is that the economy wasn't an issue this election. Despite what many here from the left have said, confidence in the economy seems pretty strong.
Or they may believe their faith will help them get through hard economic times. Someone in the lab talked to his mom who lives in West Virginia. He had voted for Kerry and cited his positions regarding the "big picture". His mom though was more concerned with various "moral" issues, particularly abortion. When asked about the economy, health care, etc. she said that it (abortion) was an issue important to her and her faith would help in hard times. Now people may mock that, but it can be a source of strength for people, especially since the "Gov" no matter what party controls it may not be able to help you at all and all you may be left with is your community and your church.
But is the mom a conservative or a moderate?

I'll ask him tomorrow where she stands on other issues.

noxiousdog · Post by **noxiousdog** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:55 pm

Dirt wrote:
noxiousdog wrote:
Smoove_B wrote:
Dirt wrote:It's been all about fear this election. Fear won over hope.
Was a fear vote? I thought it was a moral vote.
Maybe they fear his morals?
You mean the one where they'll say or imply anything to get their way?

Ah, the holier than thou vote. I hear that one was big this year.

LordMortis · Post by **LordMortis** » Wed Nov 03, 2004 5:59 pm

Or they may believe their faith will help them get through hard economic times.

One of my friend's parents tithed almost all of their non essential income to our church as we grew up. When Scott asked how they could give so much, the replied "The lord will provide." His response was "He has been providing forever and you keep giving it away. Eventually he's gonna think you don't want it." That was the only time a peperoni shot out of my nose.

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