Any Undecided US voters left here?

[The Mad Hatter]

Only four days left to go. I'm guessing the vast majority of you have chosen your candidate, but there must be a few who haven't quite made up their minds.

[LawBeefaroni]

I'm undecided. 8)

Now accepting political action money!

[Al]

There's PAC money in being undecided? This changes everything!

[YellowKing]

I'm not real sure myself. Yeah, I'm definitely a fence-sitter.
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HAHA! Fooled you! I'm really voting for Bush.

[Smoove_B]

I was watching the Daily Show the other night, and the guest made a very good point. Something I never thought of.

The world's eyes are on us. If the United States re-elects George Bush, it will validate the last four years of his Presidency. Specifically, it will send a message that the American people support everything he's done both here and abroad.

I have to admit, I never really thought how other countries feel about our elections, but given the fiasco that occured four years ago, it would seem that this Tuesday's election has even more significance.

[Massena]

I was solidly (though unhappily) Bush. The Economist endorsement of Kerry has me seriously rethinking that, for a variety of reasons. The odds are good that I'll still vote Bush, but, having sat with it for a day, I'm finding myself increasingly less sure. (long winded part coming up)...

The thing is, Bush is everything I can't stand about the Republican party. Very socially conservative vs my support of stem cells and gay marriage. I like small government, and in four years of Republicans we've seen the largest expansion of government since Lyndon Johnson. The steel tarrif thing was downright moronic: bad policy and bad politics. I like that schools are more accountable, I don't like that we STILL don't have school choice, but are instead spending more money on a failing education system than we ever have. I didn't like the farm subsidy pork bill. I didn't like the medicare/prescription drugs boondoggle. I mean, everybody acknowledges that medicare and social security NEED to be reformed. Desperately. And yet that bill ratchets the problem to even higher levels.

About the only thing I really agree with Bush on is his tax cuts and the wars. The tax cuts needed to be accompanied by at least a semblance of fiscal restraint. Instead George "never met a bill he didn't like" Bush passed all the crap above. The Afghanistan war was well executed. Job well done. And then we pulled out, and are holding things together with an international shoestring. It's working... but barely. The Iraq war needed to happen. I still believe that Saddam had weapons. I think it highly likely that they were moved. This was, after all, one of the most telegraphed punches in history (despite calls about a "rush to war" it took us over a year and several UN meetings and resolutions to actually go to war).

But the situation over there needs to be stabilized. It needs serious work. The hubris of thinking that led us to underestimate the peace is the same hubris that refuses to admit we have a problem that needs fixing. The administrations refusal to even admit the slightest mistake is alarming. Not even the "subtle" approach of "reorganizing" some departmens had been taken. It just doesn't strike me as good.

Will Kerry be better? I doubt he'll have any serious initiatives that would thrill me. But with a Republican Congress I also doubt any of those initiative would pass. And a Bush loss would be a great set up for 2008. Far right discredited, several budding stars waiting in the wings (I'm looking at you Rudy, Arnold, and Chuck). I guess a vote for Bush is an endorsement of more of the same, and I'm not sure I like that. A vote for Kerry is a vote for gridlock. And a rebuke of the religious right that seems to be over-playing my libertarian wing of the party.

So I'm all out of faith. This is how I feel. I'm torn. Genuinely.

[Enough]

Massena you sound like my wife's dad talking. My brother who is a registered Republican is voting Kerry, partially for the reasons you've outlined. I hardly think you are alone.

[YellowKing]

If the United States re-elects George Bush, it will validate the last four years of his Presidency. Specifically, it will send a message that the American people support everything he's done both here and abroad.

So Americans should change their vote based on what other countries might think of us? That's a scary line of thinking.

[SuperHiro]

So Americans should change their vote based on what other countries might think of us? That's a scary line of thinking.

<erased my initial response because it sucks>

Let's say we're making a porno. The US is the star actress. Now we're huge in the adult film industry. HUGE. We are an industry unto ourselves. We're also really nice and all the people in the industy like to work with us. Now say the President is the director of the film, and the US has enough clout to basically only work with this one director.

As we all know, it takes more than a camera, and actress, and some towels to make an adult film. You need lighting, body makeup, computer editing, fluffers, lawyers, politicians, other actors, etc. etc. These other players are the international community. They don't get center stage but for the most part they play a small but very vital role in the making of the film.

Here's the problem. The director is a real jackass. He's a piece of work. He turns off the heat in the studio to save money. He skimps on towels. He plans for huge grandiose videos but underfunds them. He makes horrific sets, often just a room with a mattress on it (with no sheets). He's pretty lose about STD check-ups. He depends too much on really dirty, skanky actors from Brazil and Eastern Europe. Slowly but surely, the co-stars you work with gradually move away. They love you to bits but they just can't work under these conditions.

Now it's time to you to change directors. You can get a new guy or keep this guy. The other porn actors really want you to pick this new guy (except for Russia and Iran, but those two gals only do the all-anal pics, so who the hell wants to talk with them?). If you keep the old director, the other actors/actresses will think that you like the way he operates, and you agree with it. That's just not cool.

[Faldarian]

Wow, Superhiro... I just don't know what else to say about that, or laugh because I understand what you're saying.

I'd have stuck with roommates for my analagy, but porn works good and connects well with the user base

Superhiro '08!

[gbasden]

If the United States re-elects George Bush, it will validate the last four years of his Presidency. Specifically, it will send a message that the American people support everything he's done both here and abroad.

So Americans should change their vote based on what other countries might think of us? That's a scary line of thinking.

Here's another analogy. The President is the CEO of your company. You make excellent widgets. Right now, your company has used a fairly extensive line of credit to expand, destroy competitors, and really spiff out the executive boardroom.

This new CEO takes over control of the company and manages to bad mouth and offend not only the customers that buy your widgets, but the creditors that hold your debt.

Now it's time for the board to vote on whether or not to keep the new CEO.

*****

Nah, I like SuperHiro's porn analogy better...

[RunningMn9]

The world's eyes are on us. If the United States re-elects George Bush, it will validate the last four years of his Presidency. Specifically, it will send a message that the American people support everything he's done both here and abroad.

I have to admit, I never really thought how other countries feel about our elections, but given the fiasco that occured four years ago, it would seem that this Tuesday's election has even more significance.

That's retarded, and not just because it came from your keyboard.

If Bush gets re-elected, it will tell the rest of the world that we looked at the two piss-poor choices in front of us, and basically split the vote between them.

Unless Bush wins by 6 or 7 points, there will be no validation from this election.

And you still shouldn't think or care about how other countries feel about our elections. How bizarre.

[Smoove_B]

I'm not saying I care what Kerplackistan thinks of our election. I'm saying I never thought that by re-electing George Bush it could be interpreted as support for (1) what he's done and (2) what he has said he's going to do.

I was only looking at my vote speaking for the future. I never thought about it validating the past.

[Alefroth]

I'm undecided. 8)

Now accepting political action money!

I was undecided, but now I'm voting for Shane.

Ale

[Poleaxe]

Massena-

I agree with you. But I would not vote for Kerry under any circumstance. I believe he is a political hack who would sell out his most dearly held core belief for a political advantage. The libertarian candidate is a crackpot.

OTOH, Iraq miscues in the peace can be recovered from, and I doubt the religious right bs will get very far in congress. Tax policy, I'm all for Bush. Kerry appointing supreme court justices? Thank you, no.

All things being equal, gridlock is somewhat appealing. But that supreme court thing definitely gives pause...

[Edmond]

a political hack who would sell out his most dearly held core belief for a political advantage

.

One can argue that this statement can also be applied to GWB, along with 80% of today's politicians.

It's interesting that I have a opposite viewpoint on the supreme court appointment. I believe Bush's going to appoint some ultra conservative judges which I am afraid will have dire consequences.

[RunningMn9]

I was only looking at my vote speaking for the future. I never thought about it validating the past.

There's a reason why you never though about that. Because it's not true.

[Poleaxe]

a political hack who would sell out his most dearly held core belief for a political advantage

.

One can argue that this statement can also be applied to GWB, along with 80% of today's politicians.

It's interesting that I have a opposite viewpoint on the supreme court appointment. I believe Bush's going to appoint some ultra conservative judges which I am afraid will have dire consequences.

IMO, Bush and most politicians have a line they won't cross. Kerry doesn't even have a line.

BTW, I'm concerned about activist conservative judges as well. But if I'm choosing between activist conservatives and activist liberals, I'll take the conservatives every time.

[SuperHiro]

a political hack who would sell out his most dearly held core belief for a political advantage

.

One can argue that this statement can also be applied to GWB, along with 80% of today's politicians.

It's interesting that I have a opposite viewpoint on the supreme court appointment. I believe Bush's going to appoint some ultra conservative judges which I am afraid will have dire consequences.

IMO, Bush and most politicians have a line they won't cross. Kerry doesn't even have a line.

BTW, I'm concerned about activist conservative judges as well. But if I'm choosing between activist conservatives and activist liberals, I'll take the conservatives every time.

We'll probably be butting heads all night on this, but no one's calling anyone names yet so what the hell.

I'm not so sure an activist liberal judge is worse than an activist conservative. An activist liberal judge is certainly going to pull off some liberal hippie dip shit that'll make you go "hunh?!"

But an activist conservative judge has an agenda... and they've been aching to go at it. And with the religious right having a larger role in this administration than I'm comfortable with...

IMHO of course.