OOWW: JLA ... GAME OVER!

[bb2112]

I was thinking something similar. Well, goodnight all. Except for LL and Austin. It is almost morning for them.

[Isgrimnur]

Riddler's scanning power looks very hard to use successfully, so having him is hardly having anything.

I disagree that Riddler's power is hamstrung, but at the risk of not giving him any ideas, I will refrain from elaborating on that.

 isgrimnur 
 


There. I don't have any idea who is evil, but since Isgrimnur apparently has the power to make useless evil powers useful, he's a danger to us all.

Keep it up and I'll tell. I'll TELL IT ALL!!!

[triggercut]

Chaos: does Team Villain get the results of any Lex Luthor or Riddler inquiries before they select a target for that evening's kill? If Joker is in the game, does he get that info before selecting a conversion target on that specific night?

No.

Lex Luthor submits a Scan along with the Villains Attack order. Results given at same time.
Riddler asks question(s) about Hero Roles when DAY starts, after Night Attack is over.
Joker is given the opportunity to Convert a Successful Kill.

Something to think on, then.

1. If a conversion happened Sunday night, it was a blind conversion. Rather than attempt to convert a specific hero based on Role, they converted a player. (Assumes Joker in-game.)
2. There is obviously also the chance they got blocked on Sunday night. That would be rather bad luck for them if it happened that way. I cry them a river.
3. Whomever they scanned on Sunday night was either not a valuable target, or they lack a Lex Luthor. Qantaga was unpowered. Granting Q's obvious skill at the game, I'd still think a powered hero would be their primary target, and Q wasn't that. Assumption to make then is that either the Sunday night scan of a prominent player came up a-cropper, or they don't have Lex.
4. If Sunday night was a blocked kill, I'm not sure they risk trying to kill one of the Superman 3. They'd figure that perhaps Supes and one other might be protected on Monday night. If they had whiffed completely on Sunday night's kill, wouldn't they have been loathe to risk a second block in as many nights?
5. Point 4, above, assumes Newcastle not being the target of Sunday night scan, obviously.

I...need to think.

[purge]

Trig, I think if qan was the doctor, he scanned himself a villain - the gator dude, if memory serves. This is why I asked you so many pages ago. I'd look it up, but just posting with this app is touch and go.
Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express

[triggercut]

Trig, I think if qan was the doctor, he scanned himself a villain - the gator dude, if memory serves. This is why I asked you so many pages ago.

I'd look it up, but just posting with this app is touch and go.
Sent from my SGH-i917R using Board Express

Q was an unpowered member of Team Hero.

Let me lay it out here in case I've been too oblique. Let's assume that Team Villain has Lex Luthor:

1. They have a Sunday night scan in pocket.
2. After Monday Day, they know that I am Superman, and that I will be able to clear Qantaga and tru1cy as goodguys.
3. The targets for them to consider for a Monday night kill--assuming they want to hit someone with tactical implications--would be in the group of four that includes whomever their night one scan is plus Superman, plus Qantaga and tru1cy (this assumes they didn't scan Qantaga on night one; I'll explain why they didn't in a moment).
4. They chose Qantaga to kill. I know why they didn't choose me; I'm guessing an assumption of nighttime protection, and they're likely to come after me tonight or the next night. They also didn't choose their night one scan target; I can say with confidence that had they scanned Q on Sunday night, he wouldn't have been the choice to kill. That's no patch on Q's considerable skill at this game, but rather thinking that given the choice of taking out a powered role hero or an unpowered one played by a skillful player, you take the role out of the game first.

That leaves me with some threads to tie up:

Scan activity:
1. On night one, they either scanned an unpowered Hero, or do not have Lex Luthor as an active role in this game.
On night two they chose to kill an unpowered goodguy based on his ability to be in a shaky circle of trust rather than kill the object of their night one scan. This strongly suggests that the object of that night one scan was a low-value target as far as role goes.
2. Possibility exists that Lex Luthor is not in the game.

Night one Kill/Convert actions:

These are just cases that occur to me:

1. Wonder Woman is an active Hero role. On night one Team Villain must submit their kill order "blind"--they don't know the potential role of whomever they target, having received no scan result. They chose an active, skillful player to attempt to kill. Wonder Woman, with the motive of wanting to know the truth of posting motives of an active, skillful player targeted that same player for "compulsion", learning that player's role and simultaneously protecting them from the attack.

2. They got very unlucky and chose to kill a player who can protect who self-protected on night one (Side note to Chaosraven: can Wonder Woman self-compel? Can Flash self-protect?)
One must wonder at the odds of Team Hero having two players with protection abilities.

3. They did a "blind" conversion on night one.
I can only see this happening if the game started out with the Hero to Villain ratio being 14:3 or perhaps 13:4. If they have Joker as a role, perhaps that player is a high profile player--a Scoop type--who is frequently targeted for being hung. It occurred that it could be a play: have Joker convert one member of Team Hero blindly on turn 1, then work to get himself lynched so he can toss his bomb. I do not see that as a particularly tactically smart Day 1 or 2 play, frankly.

[Lagom Lite]

Just popping in to say sorry, I'm a bit overwhelmed by real life events right now.

Anyway, good discussion! Looking forward to rummage through it. Sort of.

[tru1cy]

I still have Unagi as my top suspect, so I'll keep my vote there

[bb2112]

Q was an unpowered member of Team Hero.

Trig, I agree with everything in your post. Q was not scanned, and you were not targeted for fear of protection. If Lex is in the game, he would automatically get the role of Q after his death. The Q kill takes out a good player and a proven, and since you probably drew any and all protections, a highly likely unprotected player. It was a high percentage play to take out a trusted. However, taking out Q also means your time with us may be limited because you probably wont be protected tonight. So keep the brain dumps coming.

The fact that there was not a kill night one could be their target was either protected by someone else, or EM or Atom. In other words, one of the 4 roles claimed by our still alive LL.

[Mr Bubbles]

Will be unavailable for most of the day. Will try to keep up as much as I can.

[Grundbegriff]

Good luck, Lagom, with the RL issues.

[meta]I'll be at work till late afternoon, and I can't reach OO from work.[/meta]

As noted above, my spidey sense is on edge over Bubbles, Isgrimnur, and Lagom Lite. If we have 3 or 4 or even 5 wolves prowling around, it's hard to imagine that that set doesn't include one of them.

[Austin]

Look at all the ezmating! Sounds like The Matrix's new dating service.

I'll be heading to Victoria Falls in the morning, until Sunday. I should have internets though. Should.

[purge]

Q was an unpowered member of Team Hero.

Trig, I agree with everything in your post. Q was not scanned, and you were not targeted for fear of protection. If Lex is in the game, he would automatically get the role of Q after his death. The Q kill takes out a good player and a proven, and since you probably drew any and all protections, a highly likely unprotected player. It was a high percentage play to take out a trusted. However, taking out Q also means your time with us may be limited because you probably wont be protected tonight. So keep the brain dumps coming.

The fact that there was not a kill night one could be their target was either protected by someone else, or EM or Atom. In other words, one of the 4 roles claimed by our still alive LL.

Quit with the false info - the BOTH of you (trig too!)

I posted this days ago, and I'm going to reiterate:

With a mean likelyhood of 4 starting villains, that is 2 out of 6 possible roles that will identify the dead. Sure, Riddler will only get HERO deaths, but when Qan came up dead, one can assume that no message means no special role.

Clearly we need to take a closer look at our enemies - shall we?

THE VILLAINS

Lex Luthor - Lex may discover the identity of one Player at Night. As long as Lex is alive the Villains will learn the identity of any Player the Villains kill at Night.

So he can search out players, and identify all players (good / superhero + the role).

Riddler - When DAY starts, the Riddler may send a Question to the Mod in the form of "Is X Y" where X is a Player and Y is a Hero Role". If the answer is Yes, the Riddler may ask again. This continues until the Riddler gets a No answer. Riddler receives the Role of any Hero killed by any Means

His silly riddle game is going to be a challenge - but the overlooked fact is that he gets info on lynches AND night kills for any heroes - he and Clayface make good partners.

Qantaga, rest his twisted soul, was (according to Supes') an unpowered Human. If Riddler is around, he didn't get a message so either Lex or Riddler would have known this.

Two-Face - Harvey Dent will scan as Normal, both for Lynching and for Powers unless Batman is alive and in the Game. In the event he is Lynched, Batman will get a PM that he was Two-Face. In the event a Power identifies him, Batman will get the Truth. If Harvey Dent is shot by the Green Arrow, he will survive and be identified as Normal (Batman will receive his true identity)

Qan would not be Harvey Dent - unless the villains are trying to lose the games for themselves. Now this shot by green arrow and surviving... who the *fuck* besides Superman would survive a shot from green arrow? If he's in the game and batman is not, we've got quite the challenge rooting him out (like, getting down to 2 to 1 voting and picking the right guy, unless his power is negated by green lantern).

Killer Croc - if Scanned by Wonder Woman/Doctor Fate, he will kill Wonder Woman/Doctor Fate (this replaces the Night Kill, and is not affected by Protection). If shot by Green Arrow, he will die, but will also kill Green Arrow. NO FORM OF PROTECTION WILL STOP KILLER CROC'S ABILITY (other than Green Lantern Negation)

Another green lantern disablement saves us from this monster - but that would mean we'd need to have the lantern AND the arrow. This one we need to find through lynch as the best method.

Joker - the Joker has a bomb. A very nasty Bomb. If Lynched, the Joker may use the bomb to kill any one Player of his choosing. If alive, may convert any Player to Harley Quin once per game instead of them being killed at Night.

Harley Quinn - Harley retains Original Powers of her Original Role. Will Scan as Villain/Harley Quinn. If killed, reveal is Villain.

She may exist due to day 1 lacking a night kill, but that's a 50/50 shot. It may well be that we have a postivie protection EVEN IF flash / ww didn't self protect. The reason it doesn't matter is this: they would still be protecting SOMEONE and thus up to two players would be off limits... the only thing is, the chance is reduced if they don't self protect as their pool of candidates includes the (I'm assuming) the 4 "natural" villains in the mix.

Either way, she is a 4/6 chance based on Joker being around, then a 11/17 chance of conversion (since up to two are protected at night). Not horrid odds, but she's a maybe at best - the other 6 villains are far more likely given that they actually start the game.

Clayface: Each Day or Night, choose a ROLE (Normal, Named Hero, Named Villain) that he SCANS as. If Killed by any means, result will be CLAYFACE

He is pretty underpowered - he simply is good at hiding from seer scans. A lynch will prove him regardless, as will a green arrow shot.

Parasite: At Night chooses a Dead Player, has use of a Dead Players power the next available Phase (Day/Night) (chooses Dead Player and is informed of POWER, if no POWER, informed NONE, corpses may only be used once each)

At this point, if Parasite exists, the soonest he can use his powers is the next day, and not on the night kill, at least according to the boilerplate:

Night Activity:
[...]
Lex Luthor may discover the identity of one Player at Night by submitting a Scan.
Clayface chooses a Role to emulate.
Parasite chooses a Dead Player to drain.
Villains submit an Attack.

Right now he can use Qan, who is reportedly human-unpowered. If we don't hit a hero on the lynch, AND there is a parasite, he's going to have nothing to do. If they kill trig tonight, he can't use his powers until the day after tomorrow.

The interesting thing is, he COULD spoof the role of another villain (nothing in the rules stating otherwise) so if we have someone like the Joker who gets lynched today, he could use his powers the next day to create a Harley Quinn.

CR, can there be more than one Harley Quinn convert based on this?

IF there can be, it would mean that Joker, having converted one Quinn, can then zerk and kill another one of us, have the Parasite spoof his role and then create another Quinn. If he's outed, he still dies with a bang, and we now have the same number of villains except we're down two, and possibly have Quinn-Heroes.

Ick.


Lastly, I think earlier I stated clayface would be able to steal a role. Obviously this is a mistake - it would be Parasite that we're worried about.

[purge]

Actually, my mistake is above in the Riddler pairup - Riddler and Parasite make a good match.

I had an unsubmitted message that I repurposed for the post above, and missed that error (and then commented on it at the bottom).

I would edit, but then I'd have a lynch mob, so, you know, remember this when you quote the message above.

[Remus West]

I still want Lagom and Grund to make their claims while every role (according to triggercut) that was in play to begin with is still alive.

[bb2112]

Q was an unpowered member of Team Hero.

Trig, I agree with everything in your post. Q was not scanned, and you were not targeted for fear of protection. If Lex is in the game, he would automatically get the role of Q after his death. The Q kill takes out a good player and a proven, and since you probably drew any and all protections, a highly likely unprotected player. It was a high percentage play to take out a trusted. However, taking out Q also means your time with us may be limited because you probably wont be protected tonight. So keep the brain dumps coming.

The fact that there was not a kill night one could be their target was either protected by someone else, or EM or Atom. In other words, one of the 4 roles claimed by our still alive LL.

Quit with the false info - the BOTH of you (trig too!)

I'm sorry Purge, maybe I'm too dense, but what false info are Trig and I laying out there? I read through your post (good thoughts btw) and couldn't find specifically what you are talking about with the false info. If I made a wrong assumption, then please, by all means enlighten me. God knows I don't have all the answers.

[Chaosraven]

(Side note to Chaosraven: can Wonder Woman self-compel? Can Flash self-protect?)
One must wonder at the odds of Team Hero having two players with protection abilities.

Wonder Woman - Each night, Wonder Woman can compel truth regarding the Role of any other Player. If that Player is targeted for attack by the Villains that evening, the attack will fail. Wonder Woman cannot check the same Player twice in the Game.

The Flash - the Flash may Protect another Player from the Villains at Night. The Flash may not protect the Same Player on consecutive Nights.

Keywords are Any Other (WW), and ANOTHER for Flash. No, they may not protect themselves.

Odds of each same as any other slot on Hero Descriptions.

[Remus West]

Boggles the mind that you guys will devote all this time to talking about how it is likely the Villains will be getting information regarding their night kills yet not push to have Lagom and Grund firm up their claims. What happens when the Villains kill random player X tonight that happens to be Powered and a villainous Grund/Lagom then begins the next day by claiming that power? What happens when the Villains actually kill a good Grund/Lagom and thus learn their role and are able to claim it? You people are begging them to spoof a role.

[Chaosraven]

Parasite: At Night chooses a Dead Player, has use of a Dead Players power the next available Phase (Day/Night) (chooses Dead Player and is informed of POWER, if no POWER, informed NONE, corpses may only be used once each)

At this point, if Parasite exists, the soonest he can use his powers is the next day, and not on the night kill, at least according to the boilerplate:

Night Activity:
[...]
Lex Luthor may discover the identity of one Player at Night by submitting a Scan.
Clayface chooses a Role to emulate.
Parasite chooses a Dead Player to drain.
Villains submit an Attack.

Right now he can use Qan, who is reportedly human-unpowered. If we don't hit a hero on the lynch, AND there is a parasite, he's going to have nothing to do. If they kill trig tonight, he can't use his powers until the day after tomorrow.

The interesting thing is, he COULD spoof the role of another villain (nothing in the rules stating otherwise) so if we have someone like the Joker who gets lynched today, he could use his powers the next day to create a Harley Quinn.

CR, can there be more than one Harley Quinn convert based on this?

IF there can be, it would mean that Joker, having converted one Quinn, can then zerk and kill another one of us, have the Parasite spoof his role and then create another Quinn. If he's outed, he still dies with a bang, and we now have the same number of villains except we're down two, and possibly have Quinn-Heroes.

The Parasite At Night chooses a Dead Player, has use of a Dead Players power the next available Phase (Day/Night).
For Clarification, this means at Night Parasite chooses a Corpse. If that Corpse has Abilities that can be used during the Day, that very Next Day Parasite may use them.
If that Corpse has Abilities that can only be used at Night, the very NEXT Night (ie when choosing the Next Corpse) Parasite may use them.
As Joker has a DAY ability (the Bomb), and NIGHT ability (Quinn Convert), only the former will apply. Parasite would explode if Lynched. Parasite is not given the choice of DAY or NIGHT, he is given the Ability at the Earliest Possible time.
For example, Green Lantern: Parasite would only be given Negate Power during the day.

[Chaosraven]

VOTE

4 theohall - bb2112, Unagi, Austin, Lassr

3 Isgrimnur - RMC, El Guapo, coopasonic

2 bb2112 - Lagom Lite, theohall
2 Unagi - tru1cy, Mr Bubbles

1 Mr Bubbles - triggercut
1 Lagom Lite - Remus West
1 purge - Isgrimnur


No Vote: purge, Grundbegriff



16 Players remain, Majority is 9

[purge]

I'm sorry Purge, maybe I'm too dense, but what false info are Trig and I laying out there? I read through your post (good thoughts btw) and couldn't find specifically what you are talking about with the false info. If I made a wrong assumption, then please, by all means enlighten me. God knows I don't have all the answers.

That only Lex's existence will allow the villains to know the roles of the dead. The Riddler is notified of any heroes death - therefore, if Lex is not present in this game but Riddler is, Qan's death would produce no message, therefore it stands to reason that he was unpowered.

CR, thanks for the clarification - since you restricted the role to only allow day powers, it might make sense to just be forthright about it rather than even mentioning day/night powers, and simply say Day power. mentioning both Day and Night leaves me wondering if your phase means cycle - because what possible Night phase would Parasite be eligible for?

Next (and last) question for now:

The wording indicates use of a Dead Players power - so if a single-use skill were used up (eg Jokers bomb, Green arrows shot), would it be available to Parasite, or is it only passive powers such as Superman's invulnerability to lynch?

It seems the age of a corpse is non-restrictive, so the more heroes that die gives Parasite more to go with.

[bb2112]

I'm sorry Purge, maybe I'm too dense, but what false info are Trig and I laying out there? I read through your post (good thoughts btw) and couldn't find specifically what you are talking about with the false info. If I made a wrong assumption, then please, by all means enlighten me. God knows I don't have all the answers.

That only Lex's existence will allow the villains to know the roles of the dead. The Riddler is notified of any heroes death - therefore, if Lex is not present in this game but Riddler is, Qan's death would produce no message, therefore it stands to reason that he was unpowered.

Great point! And yeah, I missed it.

[purge]

You wrote your message inside my quote.

A SIGN OF VILLAINY!!! BURN HIM!

(sorry, channeling Remus there.. )

[bb2112]

[bb2112]

Boggles the mind that you guys will devote all this time to talking about how it is likely the Villains will be getting information regarding their night kills yet not push to have Lagom and Grund firm up their claims. What happens when the Villains kill random player X tonight that happens to be Powered and a villainous Grund/Lagom then begins the next day by claiming that power? What happens when the Villains actually kill a good Grund/Lagom and thus learn their role and are able to claim it? You people are begging them to spoof a role.

This is also an interesting point, and one I have been struggling with off and on over the past couple of days. I would like to hear other opinions before I say my piece. Or is it peace?

[Chaosraven]

CR, thanks for the clarification - since you restricted the role to only allow day powers, it might make sense to just be forthright about it rather than even mentioning day/night powers, and simply say Day power. mentioning both Day and Night leaves me wondering if your phase means cycle - because what possible Night phase would Parasite be eligible for?

Next (and last) question for now:

The wording indicates use of a Dead Players power - so if a single-use skill were used up (eg Jokers bomb, Green arrows shot), would it be available to Parasite, or is it only passive powers such as Superman's invulnerability to lynch?

It seems the age of a corpse is non-restrictive, so the more heroes that die gives Parasite more to go with.

It is not restricted to DAY powers.
NIGHT POWERS - WONDER WOMAN, MARTIAN MANHUNTER, DR FATE, THE FLASH, (ELONGATED MAN), (ATOM)
Obviously the latter trio are useless, but the Former trio are possible to use.

And any Dead Player (whether they used their ability or not) is available for Parasite to use their Power.
All single use skills would still be available.

To add to your examples, even if Green Lantern were to use the 3 charges of the Negate, Parasite would be given 3 Opportunties to Negate during the DAY phase he has the Power.

[Remus West]

To add to your examples, even if Green Lantern were to use the 3 charges of the Negate, Parasite would be given 3 Opportunties to Negate during the DAY phase he has the Power.

This seems to imply that the Lantern is not a once per day power. Is it possible to use multiple charges the same day? Also, how long does the power remain negated?

[Chaosraven]

To add to your examples, even if Green Lantern were to use the 3 charges of the Negate, Parasite would be given 3 Opportunties to Negate during the DAY phase he has the Power.

This seems to imply that the Lantern is not a once per day power. Is it possible to use multiple charges the same day? Also, how long does the power remain negated?

Green Lantern - Green Lantern may use his Ring, either during the Day or the Night. He chooses a Target and that Players Abilities are negated during that phase. Green Lantern may only use his Ring three times. Use of the Ring does Not Reveal Green Lantern.

=============================

Green Lantern may indeed use Multiple Charges in the same PHASE.
Negation is ONLY for that PHASE, so for Powers that have effects during a different PHASE there is no effect.
There is a list in the rules of "What Happens If Green Lantern Targets:"

[purge]

Remus, pushing for TWO people to reveal their roles on day 2? Odd.

[Remus West]

Remus, pushing for TWO people to reveal their roles on day 2? Odd.

2 people have already made claims to being powered. If we allow them to go without actually claiming a power we are handing the villains a HUGE advantage regardless of their actual roles. I laid out the why and even showed how it incorporates your own arguments. Do you not see that or have you guys decided I am to be the target of opportunity today?

[Mr Bubbles]

Remus, pushing for TWO people to reveal their roles on day 2? Odd.

2 people have already made claims to being powered. If we allow them to go without actually claiming a power we are handing the villains a HUGE advantage regardless of their actual roles. I laid out the why and even showed how it incorporates your own arguments. Do you not see that or have you guys decided I am to be the target of opportunity today?

+1 Purge that was a pretty weak argument. So everyone can get to n-1 and just claim a roll and we back off? It shouldn't be that easy.

[coopasonic]

In purge's defense, god help me, if they are good guys, we're saving the villains the effort of scanning or potentially missing on a night kill. I'm not agreeing with purge, I'm just saying I understand his perspective.

The flip side of course is that if everyone can escape a lynch by making a vague claim, we'll never lynch anyone except by act of tru1cy.

[Unagi]

So everyone can get to n-1 and just claim a roll and we back off? It shouldn't be that easy.

How is that, all of a sudden, a bad way to approach the game?

We've done this for ages.

If a Player gets to N-1, we let them talk.
If they make a claim - perhaps we back off. Perhaps it's countered, perhaps it's not... (apparently tru1cy needs to re-learn this concept as well)

Remus' main point is not that "Grund claimed Seer, and we never lynched him to prove it or disprove it!!!"

That's not what happened... that's not what we are talking about....

Remus' point is that Grund has NOT claimed anything specific, but has hinted at claiming something generic. And that lets him (and Lagom) (if they are evil) 'wiggle' into the right role, as the Villains learn about what roles they can spoof (or not).

Before anyone is dead - if a player claims "I am Seer" at N-1 - -- we have proven (to ourselves) time and time again that we can Catch the Wolf that makes that claim - because he is Counter Claimed.

That only works before anyone is dead. (or while you have a strained belief that your honest and non-evil Seer claims the only dead player was Unpowered - where we find ourselves right now).


So, we have Lagom who claimed 'Protector and/or Attack Stopper'
We have Grund who claimed "unwise choice of lynch target"


Remus' point IS valid (even if he's a wolf making the point)

One question we should ask is this.... Why are Lagom and Grund both so willing to be 'killed in the night' while their role would remain unknown?

I'm ever so slowly warming up to the idea of getting these claims made public. However - there is clearly some big danger that would come to exposing certain roles, I would think.... Remus, are you over those concerns?

[Remus West]

In purge's defense, god help me, if they are good guys, we're saving the villains the effort of scanning or potentially missing on a night kill. I'm not agreeing with purge, I'm just saying I understand his perspective.

The flip side of course is that if everyone can escape a lynch by making a vague claim, we'll never lynch anyone except by act of tru1cy.

If they are good guys the Villains already know that. Which means they can attack them at will to get a night kill of an assumed powered that they can then fake the following morning. We are allowing the villains potential access to knowledge that we do not have which they can then use to mislead us. We are also allowing them more time to find roles that they can fake if they are villains.

Lets suppose that you, Coop, are WonderWoman. Lets say they scanned you last night. Then they kill you tonight. If they have EITHER Lex or Riddler they will be told your role. So the following day we decide that it is time to go after Grundbegriff/Lagom and they respond by claiming WonderWoman. It is going to buy them at least a day if not more when they claim the villains must be worried about a protector and scared to go after them due to that. That day or two could be the difference between winning and losing. Even if we have a Batman he won't know your role until the following night so won't be able to counter them.

[tru1cy]

I argued this earlier about the n-1 and letting folks talk. If everyone gets to n-1 and claim a role no one would get lynched.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[Remus West]

However - there is clearly some big danger that would come to exposing certain roles, I would think.... Remus, are you over those concerns?

Such as what? If you are referring to the normal danger of outing roles then yes, I am over it. I think the risk of allowing them to be villains posturing is much higher than the penalty for outing a powerful role. I'll go back and reread the roles to see if there may be one specific to this rule set.

[Remus West]

I argued this earlier about the n-1 and letting folks talk. If everyone gets to n-1 and claim a role no one would get lynched.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

As Unagi pointed out, it is not about them claiming a role. It is about them claiming "powered". They need to claim a role so it can be countered or at least not faked after their death.

[Remus West]

However - there is clearly some big danger that would come to exposing certain roles, I would think.... Remus, are you over those concerns?

Such as what? If you are referring to the normal danger of outing roles then yes, I am over it. I think the risk of allowing them to be villains posturing is much higher than the penalty for outing a powerful role. I'll go back and reread the roles to see if there may be one specific to this rule set.

A quick read of the Heros shows that Atom might be annoying to out. I'll look at the Villains later to see if there is some interaction that makes a difference.

[Unagi]

I argued this earlier about the n-1 and letting folks talk. If everyone gets to n-1 and claim a role no one would get lynched.

I know you did.


And it was totally absurd when you made that argument as well.

How do you figure this (If everyone gets to n-1 and claim a role no one would get lynched.) while we have been playing that way literally for years.

Are you actually saying it is better to quickly kill a player - and not let them make their claim, and just let a Seer die without us knowing we just lynched the Seer?

Are you actually saying that a Wolf who claims Seer at N-1 would NOT be counter claimed by the incredulous living True Seer?

WHAT are you saying, tru1cy?

Are you actually denying the way that Remus, Chaos, Grund, Austin, Scoop, Stessier, Qantaga, Theohall, purge, Lagom Lite, Mr Bubbles, Lassr, triggercut, kraegor, yourself, et al had found to best approach the last vote(s) of a lynch are now suddenly baseless stupid ideas?

[Mr Bubbles]

So everyone can get to n-1 and just claim a roll and we back off? It shouldn't be that easy.

How is that, all of a sudden, a bad way to approach the game?

We've done this for ages.

Sure we have with the caveat that we actually.. ummm ... you know. get some information. You don't back off, because of a genertic claim.. you back off because you got something concrete. Lagom got off scot-free and we didn't gain anything from him running him up to n-1 other than a generic statement that we'd get from anyone who got run up to n-1.

[Unagi]

So everyone can get to n-1 and just claim a roll and we back off? It shouldn't be that easy.

How is that, all of a sudden, a bad way to approach the game?

We've done this for ages.

Sure we have with the caveat that we actually.. ummm ... you know. get some information. You don't back off, because of a genertic claim.. you back off because you got something concrete. Lagom got off scot-free and we didn't gain anything from him running him up to n-1 other than a generic statement that we'd get from anyone who got run up to n-1.

If you are reading - you will see that I understand the difference of a player actually claiming a role versus a player just saying "hold off, I'm a special you shuoldn't kill"

It is you, Mr Bubbles, that said this:
So everyone can get to n-1 and just claim a roll and we back off?

We aren't doing what you said. We are not Backing Off after we hear a role, we aren't even being told a role. We are "even worse" than what you describe - but what you describe ISN'T actually a bad move (you let a player make the claim, and you DO tend to back off lynching a player that makes an uncontested claim, don't ya??)

And this is why this point is moderately important to make clear:
Tru1cy is of the mind that you don't even need to wait to hear them make a claim. Tru1cy is of the mind that it's pointless to let them make a claim - because each and every one of them will, and if we don't ever lynch a player that makes a claim - we would never kill team evil....

And that is totally absurd.