The Politics of Covid 19, mask wearing and the vaccination process

[Isgrimnur]

Spring Break is in two weeks.

[YellowKing]

What sucks is all the places I want to vacation are red states.

[coopasonic]

What sucks is all the places I want to vacation are red states.

Take up skiing or snowboarding. That gets you some blue (and purple) options.

[Defiant]

Spring Break is in two weeks.

[Smoove_B]

Not a single Republican Senator voted for this.

Breaking: The Senate has voted to proceed on the American Rescue Plan, 51-50. VP Harris cast the tie-breaking vote.

[Daehawk]

The PUGs are voting against everything....voting security, help for Covid, you name it.

[ImLawBoy]

Not a single Republican Senator voted for this.

Breaking: The Senate has voted to proceed on the American Rescue Plan, 51-50. VP Harris cast the tie-breaking vote.

[Daehawk]

GOP and McConnell were pressuring Murkowski to vote no so there'd be ZERO GOP votes for it and the DEMs couldn't claim it was bipartisan. Oh yes plz make it all about party and not the country or it's citizens for cripes sake you buncha aholes.

[Isgrimnur]

Under California Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) 5150, an individual can be placed (involuntarily) to a locked psychiatric facility, for an evaluation for up to 72 hours. Any peace officer or specific individuals authorized by a county government may place the hold. Three criteria apply – the individual is assessed to be: a danger to themselves, a danger to others, or "gravely disabled".

[wonderpug]

All I know is that I could never live in a red state. They finally have things under control and we're rolling out the vaccines and he just says fuck it we can't wait. I'm sure it will be fine though, because everything I've seen the people that don't give a crap seem to be the ones that are fine.

Given that many of those states would be blue if it weren't for gerrymandering, they're more like blue states enduring red occupation.

[$iljanus]

Spring Break is in two weeks.

I’m packing my swimsuit! And an extra spike protein or two! See ya on the beach!

[Defiant]

Under California Welfare and Institutions Code (WIC) 5150, an individual can be placed (involuntarily) to a locked psychiatric facility, for an evaluation for up to 72 hours. Any peace officer or specific individuals authorized by a county government may place the hold. Three criteria apply – the individual is assessed to be: a danger to themselves, a danger to others, or "gravely disabled".

Florida has something similar. I suggested using it for Florida man a while back.

[Daehawk]

GOP Sen. Johnson delays Covid relief bill by forcing all 628 pages be read out loud

POS

In protest of the bill, which had been expected to pass after a marathon round of votes overnight Thursday, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., objected to waiving the reading of the legislation.

Two Senate clerks — John Merlino and Mary Anne Clarkson — and some other members of the secretary of the senate’s office are taking shifts reading the bill. The effort, which began at around 3:30 p.m., could last over 15 hours before lawmakers actually begin debating the provisions in the legislation.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said Johnson's stunt would "accomplish little more than a few sore throats for the Senate clerks who work very hard day in, day out to help the Senate function."

im sure he wont stay to listen . They should make him read them non stop.

[malchior]

GOP Sen. Johnson delays Covid relief bill by forcing all 628 pages be read out loud

POS

In protest of the bill, which had been expected to pass after a marathon round of votes overnight Thursday, Sen. Ron Johnson, R-Wis., objected to waiving the reading of the legislation.

Two Senate clerks — John Merlino and Mary Anne Clarkson — and some other members of the secretary of the senate’s office are taking shifts reading the bill. The effort, which began at around 3:30 p.m., could last over 15 hours before lawmakers actually begin debating the provisions in the legislation.

Senate Majority Leader Chuck Schumer, D-N.Y., said Johnson's stunt would "accomplish little more than a few sore throats for the Senate clerks who work very hard day in, day out to help the Senate function."

im sure he wont stay to listen . They should make him read them non stop.

Someone has to stay or they can move to waive it. While it is stupid this isn't a freebie like the filibuster has become.

[Daehawk]

Im sure Mitch hands all these chores out to them. "Here you have to do this today".."You there, you're a nobody...do this"

[Ralph-Wiggum]

All I know is that I could never live in a red state. They finally have things under control and we're rolling out the vaccines and he just says fuck it we can't wait. I'm sure it will be fine though, because everything I've seen the people that don't give a crap seem to be the ones that are fine.

Given that many of those states would be blue if it weren't for gerrymandering, they're more like blue states enduring red occupation.

It's more voter suppression than gerrymandering, at least if we're talking about the president and senate races (which is usually how red/blue is defined).

[malchior]

This seems like less than ideal policy - Detroit mayor turns down allotment of J&J vaccine.

The city of Detroit declined its alloted Johnson & Johnson COVID-19 vaccine doses this week, and Mayor Mike Duggan doubled down Thursday on his reasoning for sticking with the vaccines from Moderna and Pfizer.

"Johnson & Johnson is a very good vaccine. Moderna and Pfizer are the best," Duggan said in a news conference. "And I am going to do everything I can to make sure that residents of the city of Detroit get the best."

Detroit would have received 6,200 of the J&J one-shot doses, but declined to do so and did not get more Moderna and Pfizer doses to make up for it, according to Bob Wheaton, public information officer in the Michigan Department of Health and Human Services. They went to "other health departments that had lower coverage rates for those age 65 years or older," Wheaton wrote in an email.

Detroit got 17,000 first Moderna and Pfizer doses and 12,000 second doses this week for a total of 29,000. That's up from 15,000 a week at the start of February. Duggan expects to get 25,000-30,000 more next week.

"I believe we will have a Moderna and Pfizer vaccine for every Detroiter who wants one. The day may come when we have more Detroiters asking for vaccines than we have Moderna, Pfizer, in which case we'll set up a Johnson & Johnson site ... I don't see that in the next couple weeks," he said. "I'd say for the foreseeable future, I feel confident that we will have a Moderna and Pfizer vaccine for everyone who wants to get vaccinated."

The Detroit Free Press first reported that Detroit had rejected J&J doses.

Compared with the two-dose versions produced by Moderna and Pfizer, the J&J vaccine is less resource-intensive to distribute and administer. It can be stored for months at refrigerated temperatures, rather than frozen, and doesn't require patients to return for a second dose three or four weeks later. That is a positive sign to officials who expect to accelerate vaccine administration across the country.

However, Duggan said the city's vaccine administration system runs smoothly handling two types of two-dose vaccines in one big site at the TCF Center garage downtown. He added that he thinks it's "worth it" for the added protection to do the extra work.

[Smoove_B]

That is not something I expected to see. This pandemic continues to provide completely unforeseen scenarios.

[malchior]

That is not something I expected to see. This pandemic continues to provide completely unforeseen scenarios.

I think the same phenomena is happening Europe with the Astrazeneca vaccine as well. Getting the most people with a very high percentage of protection seems like no brainer stuff.

[Remus West]

I don't really have much problem with that choice given the statement that Detroit will have enough Moderna and Pfizer for everyone in the next few weeks. Given no other option I would take 66%. Given the choice between 66% and 95% a week later I'm going to go with 95%. Now if the statement is wrong and they can not get the other vaccines......

[Ralph-Wiggum]

The problem is comparing the efficacy of Pfizer & Moderna vaccines to J&J isn't quite a fair comparison. As far as I understand it, the J&J trial occurred when many of the variant strains were already circulating broadly. Trials for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, on the other hand, we before these new variants popped up. How well they do against those variants is still not clear, but I'm guessing their efficacy wouldn't be at the currently stated 95%.

[malchior]

I think there is a more fundamental problem - this a "Tom Nichols" Death of Expertise moment. The experts opinion about all these vaccines being effective are being undercut by a non-expert opinion that undermines the vaccine program.

[Smoove_B]

The problem is comparing the efficacy of Pfizer & Moderna vaccines to J&J isn't quite a fair comparison. As far as I understand it, the J&J trial occurred when many of the variant strains were already circulating broadly. Trials for the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines, on the other hand, we before these new variants popped up. How well they do against those variants is still not clear, but I'm guessing their efficacy wouldn't be at the currently stated 95%.

That's correct - the J&J vaccine has demonstrated a benefit against variants that the Pfizer and Moderna vaccines were never tested for; it's not a 1:1 comparison that can be made here. All we can say for sure is that any of the 3 prevents serious illness, hospitalization and death - that should be the take home message and why people should be getting any vaccine that's offered.

[stimpy]

Have we really gotten to the point where States can pick and choose?
We're doing that good?

[Remus West]

I think there is a more fundamental problem - this a "Tom Nichols" Death of Expertise moment. The experts opinion about all these vaccines being effective are being undercut by a non-expert opinion that undermines the vaccine program.

Is that whats happening though? I haven't seen any experts weigh in on the value of one vaccine versus the other. They have simply, as Smoove also says, said they are all effective. How effective compared to each other is unknown. So all people have to judge from if the % and if they can choose, which is the crux of the issue since Dugan said they would have enough for everyone, then why wouldn't you wait a week and get the one that is advertised as "better" %-wise. I understand what you're saying about get a vaccine if one is offered but one that was 95% sounds a lot better than one that is in the 60s so given a choice......95>60>0 is what goes through my head. If I can not get 95 I'd happily get 60 because 0 sucks but if I can get 95 why would I not.

Sadly, I have not been following closely enough to know but I sort of assume they are testing the M and P vaccines against the variants.

[Holman]

I wonder what percentage of people getting the first of a two-dose vaccine don't return for the second, or else wait so long to do so that it isn't as effective as planned.

[Alefroth]

I think there is a more fundamental problem - this a "Tom Nichols" Death of Expertise moment. The experts opinion about all these vaccines being effective are being undercut by a non-expert opinion that undermines the vaccine program.

Is that whats happening though? I haven't seen any experts weigh in on the value of one vaccine versus the other. They have simply, as Smoove also says, said they are all effective. How effective compared to each other is unknown. So all people have to judge from if the % and if they can choose, which is the crux of the issue since Dugan said they would have enough for everyone, then why wouldn't you wait a week and get the one that is advertised as "better" %-wise. I understand what you're saying about get a vaccine if one is offered but one that was 95% sounds a lot better than one that is in the 60s so given a choice......95>60>0 is what goes through my head. If I can not get 95 I'd happily get 60 because 0 sucks but if I can get 95 why would I not.

Sadly, I have not been following closely enough to know but I sort of assume they are testing the M and P vaccines against the variants.

The point is 95% and 60% are not comparable.

[Unagi]

I think there is a more fundamental problem - this a "Tom Nichols" Death of Expertise moment. The experts opinion about all these vaccines being effective are being undercut by a non-expert opinion that undermines the vaccine program.

Is that whats happening though? I haven't seen any experts weigh in on the value of one vaccine versus the other. They have simply, as Smoove also says, said they are all effective. How effective compared to each other is unknown. So all people have to judge from if the % and if they can choose, which is the crux of the issue since Dugan said they would have enough for everyone, then why wouldn't you wait a week and get the one that is advertised as "better" %-wise. I understand what you're saying about get a vaccine if one is offered but one that was 95% sounds a lot better than one that is in the 60s so given a choice......95>60>0 is what goes through my head. If I can not get 95 I'd happily get 60 because 0 sucks but if I can get 95 why would I not.

Sadly, I have not been following closely enough to know but I sort of assume they are testing the M and P vaccines against the variants.

The point is 95% and 60% are not comparable.

Exactly.
It’s like getting a 95% in a 5th grade math test, vs the %60 on Calculus III

[Daehawk]

Coronavirus in the U.S.: Where cases are growing and declining

[Kraken]

I wonder what percentage of people getting the first of a two-dose vaccine don't return for the second, or else wait so long to do so that it isn't as effective as planned.

This is all too new to know what the optimum delay is. I thought I read that the booster might be MORE effective if given later. All we know is the protocol that was trialed, not how well riffing on it works (or doesn't).

[Daehawk]

Sen. Kyrsten Sinema (D-AZ) votes NO...really got the net pissed.

[Remus West]

I think there is a more fundamental problem - this a "Tom Nichols" Death of Expertise moment. The experts opinion about all these vaccines being effective are being undercut by a non-expert opinion that undermines the vaccine program.

Is that whats happening though? I haven't seen any experts weigh in on the value of one vaccine versus the other. They have simply, as Smoove also says, said they are all effective. How effective compared to each other is unknown. So all people have to judge from if the % and if they can choose, which is the crux of the issue since Dugan said they would have enough for everyone, then why wouldn't you wait a week and get the one that is advertised as "better" %-wise. I understand what you're saying about get a vaccine if one is offered but one that was 95% sounds a lot better than one that is in the 60s so given a choice......95>60>0 is what goes through my head. If I can not get 95 I'd happily get 60 because 0 sucks but if I can get 95 why would I not.

Sadly, I have not been following closely enough to know but I sort of assume they are testing the M and P vaccines against the variants.

The point is 95% and 60% are not comparable.

Exactly.
It’s like getting a 95% in a 5th grade math test, vs the %60 on Calculus III

No it isn't. It like knowing you got a 95% on the first half of the Calc III test without knowledge of the second half versus knowing you got 60% overall. You could still fail with the 95% but chances seem to imply you'll do better than that 60.

[Smoove_B]

Excellent anology

We’re just sayin’. To abolish mask -wearing laws in some States while the rest of the Nation keeps theirs is like designating a peeing section of the swimming pool.

[Skinypupy]

Whelp...

[Smoove_B]

Never before has white America been more oppressed than when asked to wear a mask. I hope we can make it through this.

[Defiant]

According to the Bloomberg tracker, we're at an average of 2.15 M doses per day this week (at this rate, we'll complete vaccinating 75% of the US by early September), and even more exciting, we had 2.9M vaccinated yesterday - at *that* rate, by my back of the envelope calculations, we could have 75% vaccinated by the end of July.

[Smoove_B]

When the projected calculations go sideways, remember the answer never was supply. It's always been the willingness of the overwhelming majority of healthy, low-risk Americans to agree to be vaccinated.

[Isgrimnur]

Never before has white America been more oppressed than when asked to wear a mask. I hope we can make it through this.

Fucking white people...

[YellowKing]

The problem, in my mind, is one of leadership more than people.

If you give someone the choice to not wear a mask, they won't wear it. DON'T GIVE THEM A CHOICE. You have to treat these morons like the toddlers they are. And that means you set the price for NOT wearing a mask higher than the price for wearing a mask.

In NC, the price for not wearing a mask is you don't fucking get in the store or the restaurant. Period. Are there going to be people that rebel against that? Sure, but it's less than you think because most people don't want to deal with the drama.

Every one of these governors that refused to institute a mask mandate (or lifted it) have blood on their hands and failed to uphold the duties of their office in spectacular fashion.

[Jaymon]

Never before has white America been more oppressed than when asked to wear a mask. I hope we can make it through this.

Fucking white people...

agreed