How do we pierce the RW echo chamber?

[Drazzil]

A big part of why the right wing has been so sucessful in the last 40 years seems to be propaganda and misinformation. How do we counter this?

Someone here mentioned a mandatory subscription to a news service that itself meets the category of news. Myself, im partial to the idea of a federal buyout and restructure of Fox "news".

What do you guys think?

[Pyperkub]

I think this article is spot on.

The poll, which surveyed more than 2,000 Americans, finds that an astonishing 55 percent of Republicans who watch Fox News as their primary news source say there is almost nothing Trump could do to lose their approval. By contrast, only 29 percent of Republicans who don’t cite Fox as their primary source say this.

What’s more, 98 percent of Fox-citing Republicans oppose impeaching and removing Trump — opposition that’s “essentially unanimous,” as PRRI puts it. By contrast, 90 percent of non-Fox-citing Republicans oppose impeaching and removing him — which is overwhelmingly high, but suggests that among this group, at least, Trump could suffer losses on the margins as the inquiry turns up worse revelations.

And here’s another real doozy: In response to my inquiry, PRRI tells me that 71 percent of Fox-citing Republicans strongly approve of Trump, while only 39 percent of non-Fox-citing Republicans strongly approve of him.

[Drazzil]

So what can we do in the short time frame we have left before the election?

[Kraken]

Democrats have to get better at the cyber, too.

On any given day, President Trump’s campaign is plastering ads all over Facebook, YouTube, and the millions of sites served by Google, hitting the kind of incendiary themes — immigrant invaders, the corrupt media — that play best on platforms where algorithms favor outrage and political campaigns are free to disregard facts.

Even seemingly ominous developments for Trump become fodder for his campaign. When news broke last month that congressional Democrats were opening an impeachment inquiry, the campaign responded with an advertising blitz aimed at firing up the president’s base.

The campaign slapped together an “Impeachment Poll” (sample question: “Do you agree that President Trump has done nothing wrong?”). It invited supporters to join the Official Impeachment Defense Task Force (“All you need to do is DONATE NOW!”). It produced a slick video laying out the debunked conspiracy theory about former vice president Joe Biden and Ukraine that is now at the center of the impeachment battle (“Learn the truth. Watch Now!”).

The onslaught overwhelmed the limited Democratic response. Biden’s campaign put up the stiffest resistance: It demanded Facebook take down the ad, only to be rebuffed. It then proceeded with plans to slash its online advertising budget in favor of more television ads.

That campaigns are now being fought largely online is hardly a revelation, yet only one political party seems to have gotten the message. While the Trump campaign has put its digital operation firmly at the center of the president’s reelection effort, Democrats are struggling to internalize the lessons of the 2016 race and adapt to a political landscape shaped by social media.

I see Warren on the Facebook multiple times daily, but she's posting factual videos and linking to real news about her campaign events and policy plans. That's not how you pierce an echo chamber. And, as the column points out, Facebook is mostly for old people now -- the same ones who watch television. I don't do the snapchat and instagram so I can't comment on those.

Democratic digital operatives said the problem is a party dominated by an aging professional political class that is too timid. The Biden campaign’s decision to tack from digital to television, they said, is only the most glaring example of a party hung up on the kind of broad-based advertising that fares poorly on social media.

Digital consultants and campaign officials complained that the Democratic establishment was too focused on winning over imagined moderates instead of doing what the Trump campaign has done: firing up its base.

With the Russians on their side and massive ad spending, no Democrat can come close...but they can hardly cede the arena, either.

[Drazzil]

Okay. We've sucessfully identified the problem.

How bout this: Create a way to upload and post a list of RW tropes and specific ads. Then, users can create simple, brief, fact based rebuttals... Maybe using the same meme based dissemination methods, then do a reverse image meme or trope search and smack the meme with the truth whereever its found. We won't convince the poster (probabally) but if people in the echo chamber see enough of these things debunked enough of the time... Some of them will go "wait"

Hell if we were able to convince 5% of the drumph folks that they were being catspaws for the USSR and replace their fear of brown people with a fear of russia.

Like that doc who convininced the antivaxxer conspiracy theorist that there was another antivaxxination conspiracy theory afoot.

[Drazzil]

Okay. We've sucessfully identified the problem.

How bout this: Create a way to upload and post a list of RW tropes and specific ads. Then, users can create simple, brief, fact based rebuttals... Maybe using the same meme based dissemination methods, then do a reverse image meme or trope search and smack the meme with the truth whereever its found. We won't convince the poster (probabally) but if people in the echo chamber see enough of these things debunked enough of the time... Some of them will go "wait"

Hell if we were able to convince 5% of the drumph folks that they were being catspaws for the USSR and replace their fear of brown people with a fear of russia.

Like that doc who convininced the antivaxxer conspiracy theorist that there was another antivaxxination conspiracy theory afoot.

Of course some of the most strident allies we will gain will be the guys who don't know this is all BS. Those guys will be able to wade into the hellpits from whence they came to disseminate the truth.

[Holman]

Okay. We've sucessfully identified the problem.

How bout this: Create a way to upload and post a list of RW tropes and specific ads. Then, users can create simple, brief, fact based rebuttals... Maybe using the same meme based dissemination methods, then do a reverse image meme or trope search and smack the meme with the truth whereever its found. We won't convince the poster (probabally) but if people in the echo chamber see enough of these things debunked enough of the time... Some of them will go "wait"

Hell if we were able to convince 5% of the drumph folks that they were being catspaws for the USSR and replace their fear of brown people with a fear of russia.

Like that doc who convininced the antivaxxer conspiracy theorist that there was another antivaxxination conspiracy theory afoot.

Have you ever seen Twitter?

It's lies, followed by 20 thoughtful debunkings, followed by 10,000 immediate reinforcements of the lie.

Are you going to read 10,020 posts? That's literally why bots exist.

[Drazzil]

Okay. We've sucessfully identified the problem.

How bout this: Create a way to upload and post a list of RW tropes and specific ads. Then, users can create simple, brief, fact based rebuttals... Maybe using the same meme based dissemination methods, then do a reverse image meme or trope search and smack the meme with the truth whereever its found. We won't convince the poster (probabally) but if people in the echo chamber see enough of these things debunked enough of the time... Some of them will go "wait"

Hell if we were able to convince 5% of the drumph folks that they were being catspaws for the USSR and replace their fear of brown people with a fear of russia.

Like that doc who convininced the antivaxxer conspiracy theorist that there was another antivaxxination conspiracy theory afoot.

Have you ever seen Twitter?

It's lies, followed by 20 thoughtful debunkings, followed by 10,000 immediate reinforcements of the lie.

Are you going to read 10,020 posts? That's literally why bots exist.

I despise twitter. I don't have an account. Why dont we create our own bots?

[Jeff V]

So what can we do in the short time frame we have left before the election?

Free ammo and PBR marathon. Starts at 6 am election day, they need to be checked in by then to participate. Their truck keys have to be left at a check-in. Every 5 minutes participating in the marathon, they earn a free bullet. Every 15 minutes they get a free PBR. They must stay in the marathon until it ends at 7 pm to receive their free ammo. If they wish to leave earlier, they must take a breathalyzer to get their truck keys back.

[UsulofDoom]

So what can we do in the short time frame we have left before the election?

Free ammo and PBR marathon. Starts at 6 am election day, they need to be checked in by then to participate. Their truck keys have to be left at a check-in. Every 5 minutes participating in the marathon, they earn a free bullet. Every 15 minutes they get a free PBR. They must stay in the marathon until it ends at 7 pm to receive their free ammo. If they wish to leave earlier, they must take a breathalyzer to get their truck keys back.

Funny. All RW have banker hours. RW don't drive pickups they drive BMWs.

[Drazzil]

So what can we do in the short time frame we have left before the election?

Free ammo and PBR marathon. Starts at 6 am election day, they need to be checked in by then to participate. Their truck keys have to be left at a check-in. Every 5 minutes participating in the marathon, they earn a free bullet. Every 15 minutes they get a free PBR. They must stay in the marathon until it ends at 7 pm to receive their free ammo. If they wish to leave earlier, they must take a breathalyzer to get their truck keys back.

Hell I don't drink anymore but if I did, *I'd* go to that.

[Drazzil]

So what can we do in the short time frame we have left before the election?

Free ammo and PBR marathon. Starts at 6 am election day, they need to be checked in by then to participate. Their truck keys have to be left at a check-in. Every 5 minutes participating in the marathon, they earn a free bullet. Every 15 minutes they get a free PBR. They must stay in the marathon until it ends at 7 pm to receive their free ammo. If they wish to leave earlier, they must take a breathalyzer to get their truck keys back.

We're fucked arent we?

[Skinypupy]

We don’t.

Next question?

[The Meal]

Hollow point rounds?

[Smoove_B]

We don’t.

That is correct. When Corrections Fail:

We conducted four experiments in which subjects read mock news articles that included either a misleading claim from a politician, or a misleading claim and a correction. Results indicate that corrections frequently fail to reduce misperceptions among the targeted ideological group. We also document several instances of a "backfire effect" in which corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question.

[Drazzil]

We don’t.

That is correct. When Corrections Fail:

We conducted four experiments in which subjects read mock news articles that included either a misleading claim from a politician, or a misleading claim and a correction. Results indicate that corrections frequently fail to reduce misperceptions among the targeted ideological group. We also document several instances of a "backfire effect" in which corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question.

[UsulofDoom]

We don’t.

That is correct. When Corrections Fail:

We conducted four experiments in which subjects read mock news articles that included either a misleading claim from a politician, or a misleading claim and a correction. Results indicate that corrections frequently fail to reduce misperceptions among the targeted ideological group. We also document several instances of a "backfire effect" in which corrections actually increase misperceptions among the group in question.

Wow that was from 2010. Before Trump was elected but when Obama was.

[Smoove_B]

Wow that was from 2010. Before Trump was elected but when Obama was.

If you read through the notes, it was actually presented at a 2006 Political Science conference. I can't confirm it, but the data then was likely collected ~2004.

[Grifman]

Among certain people it is almost impossible. I had a friend on Facebook that posted a false story about Hillary Clinton. When I posted a story showing that it was false, her response was not, "Oh, thanks for letting me know", but instead was "Well, it sounds like something she would say".

There have been multiple false FB stories that she has posted - she never fact checks anything. I remember another time she posted something false. Another friend of hers posted a source that showed she was wrong. Her response? "I don't accept your source" This went on for half a dozen attempts by the other person. Each time, "I don't accept your source". He was posting multiple corrections of this falsehood, using WaPo, NTY, Time, Politico, etc. She would not accept a one. No reason given, she didn't post anything else supporting her position.

Some people can't accept any contradiction to their world view no matter how well documented.

[Scraper]

Among certain people it is almost impossible. I had a friend on Facebook that posted a false story about Hillary Clinton. When I posted a story showing that it was false, her response was not, "Oh, thanks for letting me know", but instead was "Well, it sounds like something she would say".

There have been multiple false FB stories that she has posted - she never fact checks anything. I remember another time she posted something false. Another friend of hers posted a source that showed she was wrong. Her response? "I don't accept your source" This went on for half a dozen attempts by the other person. Each time, "I don't accept your source". He was posting multiple corrections of this falsehood, using WaPo, NTY, Time, Politico, etc. She would not accept a one. No reason given, she didn't post anything else supporting her position.

Some people can't accept any contradiction to their world view no matter how well documented.

This is true. My hope and my belief is that the people like that on the right who support Trump only make up about 30% of the voting population. The rest are on the other end of the spectrum or true independents who are actually capable of consuming the news and making up their own mind on each topic. It is that independent population who I still have faith in to make the right decision next fall. Enough of them took a chance on Trump in 2016, but I honestly cannot see how they do that again.

Of course my 30% number is just pure conjecture. But I really hope it's true.

[stessier]

I know a bunch of one issue voters who ignore everything he does as long as he stays true to that issue.

[Remus West]

Some people can't accept any contradiction to their world view no matter how well documented.

Wasn't there an Oatmeal strip regarding that?

Summon the Isgrimnur for a link!

[Isgrimnur]

Believe

[Jeff V]

Funny. All RW have banker hours. RW don't drive pickups they drive BMWs.

The .0001% who actually benefit from Republican policies do. While they are the beneficiaries of the "Guns! Fuck yeah!" trailer trash that consistently votes against their own interests, the latter are responsible for more actual votes and are demonstrably too damn dumb to reason with. Instead of wasting advertising $$$ trying to penetrate their dense skulls with actual facts and information, investing in an alternative strategy is not entirely without merit.

[Jaymann]

It's always easier to incite with racism and bigotry. You can only counter it with superior ammunition in the marketplace of ideas.

[Drazzil]

It's always easier to incite with racism and bigotry. You can only counter it with superior ammunition in the marketplace of ideas.

Or we could work within that mindset to incite hatred towards those who deserve it?

I'm out of ideas.

[YellowKing]

I don't think you're ever going to pierce the echo chamber, but I do think "a rising tide lifts all boats."

What I mean is that American society as a whole has continuously gotten more progressive, despite the right-wing echo chamber. Has RW media been effective in slowing down that advance left? Absolutely. But it ultimately hasn't stopped or reversed the march of progress.

I think as long as those not stuck in the echo chamber continue to fight the good fight, the tide will continue to rise and the RW nutjobs will have no choice but to grudgingly come along or drown.

[GungHo]

I don't think you're ever going to pierce the echo chamber, but I do think "a rising tide lifts all boats."

What I mean is that American society as a whole has continuously gotten more progressive, despite the right-wing echo chamber. Has RW media been effective in slowing down that advance left? Absolutely. But it ultimately hasn't stopped or reversed the march of progress.

I think as long as those not stuck in the echo chamber continue to fight the good fight, the tide will continue to rise and the RW nutjobs will have no choice but to grudgingly come along or drown.

Well said.

[Holman]

Zuck can fuck off and die.

Does he even identify who's making Facebook's most important decisions about content?

"An independent organization called the Independent Fact-Checking Network..." "The International Fact-Checking Network..."

My fact-checking is done by my hip cool summer girlfriend, you haven't met her, she lives in Canada.

[Scraper]

Say what you will about AOC's politics. That woman is stone cold deadly as a cross examiner. The Dems should use her every chance they get during public testimony type events.

[Blackhawk]

Does he even identify who's making Facebook's most important decisions about content?

Yes. He left out that IFCN only certifies various sources. Facebook then selects which of the certified sources they use. An article I read (sorry, I'll try and dig up a link) said that of 60+ certified sources, Facebook chose 6.