The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

For discussion of religion and politics

Moderators: LawBeefaroni, $iljanus

Post Reply
User avatar
noxiousdog
Posts: 24627
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:27 pm
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by noxiousdog »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 9:37 pm
noxiousdog wrote: Mon Dec 09, 2019 2:15 pm

I remember approximately what I've made at my job the last 3 or 4 years. I have no clue before that. Certainly not when I was billing hourly, which I'm pretty sure is what lawyers do especially in cases like hers. $400k for a lawyer in those kind of cases is pretty routine I'd think. I know a computer professional who made 80k in overtime alone over two years. Not as a project manager or anything, but just as a technical lead.

Are you really suggesting we should be mad because she's not posting her resume and salary history?
I don't expect anything. Her campaign voluntarily released it. Presumably to get ahead of many criticism. But now it's out there and it will get scrutinized. So yes, she kept records.

My only point was that it's not totally, unbelievably, very bad, no good crazy for someone to discuss it.
Well, weird statements, revisions, and doubling down are part of her style, so I don't know how this changes anything. :shhh:
Black Lives Matter

"To wield Grond, the mighty hammer of the Federal Government, is to be intoxicated with power beyond what you and I can reckon (though I figure we can ball park it pretty good with computers and maths). Need to tunnel through a mountain? Grond. Kill a mighty ogre? Grond. Hangnail? Grond. Spider? Grond (actually, that's a legit use, moreso than the rest)." - Peacedog
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman »

Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 am NPR has done a segment on Warren that I thought was interesting - reminding everyone that she used to be a conservative Republican that wanted to blame people for rigging the system and using bankruptcy as a cop-out to get away with financial murder. Something Trump is guilty of. Bankruptcy law was/is kind of her thing.

Then, 20 years ago, she set out to find the truth of it and see who was exploiting the system and how. She spent a long time putting together reams of data to find the bums and con men abusing the system. In the end, she concluded that average Americans, not welfare queens and con men, were being ground under the heel of the banking system, which was taking advantage of them and systematically ruining their lives for their own profit. It changed her views on what being a conservative meant and she ended up switching parties.

I have a deep respect for anyone who can actually come up against something that conflicts with their world view, absorb it, work through it, and change their beliefs because of it. Most of the GOP today would get the same data and shred it in the middle of the night without wanting to risk anyone else finding it, and then emerge the next day to declare it all fake news and liberal lies without ever breaking stride.
Seriously. I'd love to see her make this part of her campaign story. It speaks to integrity and shared American ideals far more effectively than Biden's "really we're all buddies at the top."

Plus, imagine how rich and comfortable she would be today if she'd simply kept playing at the top of the corporate law game.

In this, Warren is the anti-Trump.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

Image
User avatar
hepcat
Posts: 51302
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 3:02 pm
Location: Chicago, IL Home of the triple homicide!

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by hepcat »

Holman wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 11:25 am
Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 am NPR has done a segment on Warren that I thought was interesting - reminding everyone that she used to be a conservative Republican that wanted to blame people for rigging the system and using bankruptcy as a cop-out to get away with financial murder. Something Trump is guilty of. Bankruptcy law was/is kind of her thing.

Then, 20 years ago, she set out to find the truth of it and see who was exploiting the system and how. She spent a long time putting together reams of data to find the bums and con men abusing the system. In the end, she concluded that average Americans, not welfare queens and con men, were being ground under the heel of the banking system, which was taking advantage of them and systematically ruining their lives for their own profit. It changed her views on what being a conservative meant and she ended up switching parties.

I have a deep respect for anyone who can actually come up against something that conflicts with their world view, absorb it, work through it, and change their beliefs because of it. Most of the GOP today would get the same data and shred it in the middle of the night without wanting to risk anyone else finding it, and then emerge the next day to declare it all fake news and liberal lies without ever breaking stride.
Seriously. I'd love to see her make this part of her campaign story. It speaks to integrity and shared American ideals far more effectively than Biden's "really we're all buddies at the top."

Plus, imagine how rich and comfortable she would be today if she'd simply kept playing at the top of the corporate law game.

In this, Warren is the anti-Trump.
Christ, all that story needs is a radioactive spider and a dead uncle to complete the picture.
Covfefe!
User avatar
LordMortis
Posts: 70100
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:26 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by LordMortis »

Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 am reminding everyone that she used to be a conservative Republican that wanted to blame people for rigging the system and using bankruptcy as a cop-out to get away with financial murder.
Reminding? I did not know this. I am intrigued and would like to know more.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Isgrimnur »

Think Progress
Sen. Elizabeth Warren (D-MA) told George Stephanopoulos Sunday that she left the Republican Party in the mid-90s because it was tilting the playing field in favor of Wall Street.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 17449
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:50 pm
Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 am reminding everyone that she used to be a conservative Republican that wanted to blame people for rigging the system and using bankruptcy as a cop-out to get away with financial murder.
Reminding? I did not know this. I am intrigued and would like to know more.
My (very limited) understanding is that she began looking into the bankruptcy system thinking she would find one thing (people using it as a crutch), but as she researched it, she realized the whole system was screwing the vast majority of people and causing so many people had to file for bankruptcy in the first place. Which, IMO, is huge plus in her favor: she went in with an idea of how something worked and when she saw she was wrong completely changed her outlook.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 6:37 pm
LordMortis wrote: Tue Jan 14, 2020 3:50 pm
Paingod wrote: Tue Dec 10, 2019 8:47 am reminding everyone that she used to be a conservative Republican that wanted to blame people for rigging the system and using bankruptcy as a cop-out to get away with financial murder.
Reminding? I did not know this. I am intrigued and would like to know more.
My (very limited) understanding is that she began looking into the bankruptcy system thinking she would find one thing (people using it as a crutch), but as she researched it, she realized the whole system was screwing the vast majority of people and causing so many people had to file for bankruptcy in the first place. Which, IMO, is huge plus in her favor: she went in with an idea of how something worked and when she saw she was wrong completely changed her outlook.
She talks about bankruptcy in last week's interview with the smart and delightful POD SAVE AMERICA.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

I keep reading this as the Elizabeth Warren s(l)ideshow.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Isgrimnur »

>ka-click<
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8486
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth »

Isgrimnur wrote: Fri Feb 07, 2020 11:51 pm >ka-click<
:wink:
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

Go Warren!
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

For the first time in my long life, I gave money to a political campaign today. I know it's probably a lost cause. But I really think she's the best candidate, and if Warren is to have any chance of turning it around on Super Tuesday she needs to keep her organization humming, so I just bought some field office somewhere a pizza.
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

Me too!
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Daehawk
Posts: 63524
Joined: Sat Jan 01, 2005 1:11 am

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Daehawk »

I dont have a preference so Ill vote for whoever it is come Oct. for early voting. But I dont see any of these folk beating the corrupt Trump.
--------------------------------------------
I am Dyslexic of Borg, prepare to have your ass laminated.
I guess Ray Butts has ate his last pancake.
http://steamcommunity.com/id/daehawk
"Has high IQ. Refuses to apply it"
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:18 am For the first time in my long life, I gave money to a political campaign today. I know it's probably a lost cause. But I really think she's the best candidate, and if Warren is to have any chance of turning it around on Super Tuesday she needs to keep her organization humming, so I just bought some field office somewhere a pizza.
My wife is at the local Warren HQ making calls right now, as she did all last weekend.

I’ll ask if they had pizza!
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

Holman wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 3:58 pm
Kraken wrote: Sat Feb 15, 2020 12:18 am For the first time in my long life, I gave money to a political campaign today. I know it's probably a lost cause. But I really think she's the best candidate, and if Warren is to have any chance of turning it around on Super Tuesday she needs to keep her organization humming, so I just bought some field office somewhere a pizza.
My wife is at the local Warren HQ making calls right now, as she did all last weekend.

I’ll ask if they had pizza!
Go Warren! She's just a heartbeat away from my favorite canidate. :?
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

I *CAN* love two canidates right?
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Isgrimnur »

Drazzil wrote:I *CAN* love two canidates right?
We don’t kinkshame.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
User avatar
ImLawBoy
Forum Admin
Posts: 14950
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 9:49 pm
Location: Chicago, IL
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by ImLawBoy »

Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:38 pm
Drazzil wrote:I *CAN* love two canidates right?
We don’t kinkshame.
Kinkshaming is my kink.
That's my purse! I don't know you!
User avatar
Isgrimnur
Posts: 82085
Joined: Sun Oct 15, 2006 12:29 am
Location: Chookity pok
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Isgrimnur »

ImLawBoy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:38 pm
Drazzil wrote:I *CAN* love two canidates right?
We don’t kinkshame.
Kinkshaming is my kink.
Image
It's almost as if people are the problem.
Drazzil
Posts: 4723
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 3:54 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Drazzil »

Isgrimnur wrote: Mon Feb 17, 2020 12:53 pm
ImLawBoy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 1:38 pm
Drazzil wrote:I *CAN* love two canidates right?
We don’t kinkshame.
Kinkshaming is my kink.
Image

Edited for off topic... Sorry. I got a survey from the Bernie camp. I think I may have mentioned loving Warrens message too.
Daehawk wrote:Thats Drazzil's chair damnit.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

Warren is having a very good debate tonight. Bloomberg was a gift to her campaign.
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman »

Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:52 pm Warren is having a very good debate tonight. Bloomberg was a gift to her campaign.
Oh, yeah. She knows this is do or die, and she's really shining.

Everyone else on stage is basically following in her wake against Bloomberg.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by El Guapo »

Holman wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:54 pm
Kraken wrote: Wed Feb 19, 2020 10:52 pm Warren is having a very good debate tonight. Bloomberg was a gift to her campaign.
Oh, yeah. She knows this is do or die, and she's really shining.

Everyone else on stage is basically following in her wake against Bloomberg.
She did, but I still think that she's doomed. It's hard to see how this debate is going to help her catch up to Sanders, nor how it's going to attract her significantly more support from moderates, and she needs to do one or the other fairly quickly before Super Tuesday. I think Biden's actually most likely to benefit - he had a pretty decent night too, and I think Bloomberg deflating (and Biden getting to look more like a liberal in contrast with Bloomberg) will help him gain.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
em2nought
Posts: 5307
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 5:48 am

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by em2nought »

Pocahontas be taking scalps :mrgreen:
Enlarge Image
Technically, he shouldn't be here.
Roman
Posts: 1133
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 4:13 pm
Location: Earth

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Roman »

My favourite parts last night were when:
  • Mayor Pete said let's actually elect a Democrat when referring to Bloomberg's Rep/Dem past and Sanders being labelled as a socialist
  • When Bloomberg hit back against Sanders about being a socialist millionaire with 3 homes
Made me laugh a little.
While feeding all the beasties out back I let a nice big fart. The smell followed all the way back to the house. It's like it was my baby and felt abandoned.
User avatar
Ralph-Wiggum
Posts: 17449
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 8:51 am

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Unfortunately for Warren, even if she gets a decent bump from the debate last night (fingers crossed!) it may be too late in Nevada. Almost 80,000 people had voted early before the debate and that will be hard to overcome. And if she doesn't place well in Nevada, that will be the main story about her leading into SC.
Black Lives Matter
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

Yeah, it's probably too late to pull NV out of the fire. But remember that we have one more debate before SC, and Super Tuesday is the main event. Don't write her off yet. She still has a chance to be the bridge candidate between the two factions. Last night, she came >this close< to backing away from Medicare for All, saying that her priority will be quality coverage for as many people as possible as quickly as possible...without actually invoking M4A. If she can thread that needle -- reassuring the centrists without alienating the leftists -- she'll be just what the party needs.
User avatar
pr0ner
Posts: 17424
Joined: Mon Dec 06, 2004 3:00 pm
Location: Northern Virginia, VA
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by pr0ner »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:25 am Unfortunately for Warren, even if she gets a decent bump from the debate last night (fingers crossed!) it may be too late in Nevada. Almost 80,000 people had voted early before the debate and that will be hard to overcome. And if she doesn't place well in Nevada, that will be the main story about her leading into SC.
How can so many people vote early in Nevada when Nevada is another caucus state?
Hodor.
User avatar
El Guapo
Posts: 41246
Joined: Sat Jul 09, 2005 4:01 pm
Location: Boston

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by El Guapo »

Kraken wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:41 am Yeah, it's probably too late to pull NV out of the fire. But remember that we have one more debate before SC, and Super Tuesday is the main event. Don't write her off yet. She still has a chance to be the bridge candidate between the two factions. Last night, she came >this close< to backing away from Medicare for All, saying that her priority will be quality coverage for as many people as possible as quickly as possible...without actually invoking M4A. If she can thread that needle -- reassuring the centrists without alienating the leftists -- she'll be just what the party needs.
Super Tuesday is only a few weeks away. If she gets a huge boost from tonight's debate (which I don't really expect, but which is plausible), then *maybe* that starts a positive media narrative cycle, and *maybe* she gains a lot of ground. But neither Nevada nor SC are great states for her, so she's not super likely to get much momentum from either.

And even if she starts to gain ground, by far the most likely scenario at this point is that Bernie is leading the pack on Super Tuesday, and she's maybe in 3rd or 4th. If that's the case, it's going to be virtually impossible for her to catch up to Sanders in pledged delegates.

I wonder whether her most plausible path to victory (beyond an unexpected Sanders collapse) would be for both Bloomberg and Biden to crater, for her to rise up into 2nd, and then try to sell herself as the plausible alternative to convention delegates.
Black Lives Matter.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Smoove_B »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:54 pmHow can so many people vote early in Nevada when Nevada is another caucus state?
Because our electoral process is outdated and broken? I'll let smarter people detail and support my thesis. :D
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Fireball
Posts: 4762
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:43 pm

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Fireball »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:54 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:25 am Unfortunately for Warren, even if she gets a decent bump from the debate last night (fingers crossed!) it may be too late in Nevada. Almost 80,000 people had voted early before the debate and that will be hard to overcome. And if she doesn't place well in Nevada, that will be the main story about her leading into SC.
How can so many people vote early in Nevada when Nevada is another caucus state?
Early voters in Nevada can mark down their preference for candidates (I think ranking up to five choices). I believe that these votes will be treated as participants in the caucus for their precinct.
Wed Oct 20, 2004 1:17 am
Zarathud: The sad thing is that Barak Obama is a very intelligent and articulate person, even when you disagree with his views it's clear that he's very thoughtful. I would have loved to see Obama in a real debate.
Me: Wait 12 years, when he runs for president. :-)
User avatar
Alefroth
Posts: 8486
Joined: Thu Oct 14, 2004 1:56 pm
Location: Bellingham WA

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Alefroth »

pr0ner wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 1:54 pm
Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Thu Feb 20, 2020 11:25 am Unfortunately for Warren, even if she gets a decent bump from the debate last night (fingers crossed!) it may be too late in Nevada. Almost 80,000 people had voted early before the debate and that will be hard to overcome. And if she doesn't place well in Nevada, that will be the main story about her leading into SC.
How can so many people vote early in Nevada when Nevada is another caucus state?
By basically turning it into a primary-
User avatar
Holman
Posts: 28906
Joined: Sun Oct 24, 2004 8:00 pm
Location: Between the Schuylkill and the Wissahickon

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Holman »

My wife right now is making calls to voters in Nevada on behalf of Warren.

I've been washing dishes and making sure the kids have their homework in hand, but I feel like Rebecca is the better American.
Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

Tell her I thank her for her service. If I didn't have zero people skills and less-than-zero phone skills, I'd consider doing that. Instead, I'll buy them another pizza. I am as convinced as ever that Warren is the best choice.

If my facebook feed is any indication, the campaign is energized by her debate performance and the ensuing rush of donations. But I realize that FB always tells me what I want to hear.
User avatar
Smoove_B
Posts: 54567
Joined: Wed Oct 13, 2004 12:58 am
Location: Kaer Morhen

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Smoove_B »

Warren should really consider having Bernie as her VP. The reason is that as VP, Bernie can saunter into the Senate and berate the ever-loving fark out of the senators that are dicking around under the umbrella him maintaining decorum. Just having him yelling and calling them on their bullshit would be worth it.

Regardless,I don't know how any reasonable person could view last night's debate and not be impressed with Warren. I'm beginning to think the (D) needs to be a firebrand and Bernie was filling that role for so many for so long. But I think last night demonstrated Warren can do it too.
Maybe next year, maybe no go
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

She is at her best when she's going after predators. Remember how she came to national attention in the first place?

User avatar
Zarathud
Posts: 16434
Joined: Fri Oct 15, 2004 10:29 pm
Location: Chicago, Illinois

The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Zarathud »

Bernie would not behave as VP. Not sure who Bernie would pick but he would be smart to ask Warren if she can’t get restarted.
"If the facts don't fit the theory, change the facts." - Albert Einstein
"I don't stand by anything." - Trump
“Bad men need nothing more to compass their ends, than that good men should look on and do nothing.” - John Stuart Mill, Inaugural Address Delivered to the University of St Andrews, 2/1/1867
“It is the impractical things in this tumultuous hell-scape of a world that matter most. A book, a name, chicken soup. They help us remember that, even in our darkest hour, life is still to be savored.” - Poe, Altered Carbon
User avatar
Kraken
Posts: 43688
Joined: Tue Oct 12, 2004 11:59 pm
Location: The Hub of the Universe
Contact:

Re: The Elizabeth Warren Sideshow

Post by Kraken »

Zarathud wrote: Fri Feb 21, 2020 12:05 am Bernie would not behave as VP. Not sure who Bernie would pick but he would be smart to ask Warren if she can’t get restarted.
There is too much bad blood between them now, and neither would play second fiddle for the other. Besides, they each need a much younger VP, preferably a minority.
Post Reply