All Things Saudi

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Jaymann
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Jaymann »

Relax, at least he wasn't wearing a tan suit.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Daily Beast
A suspected agent of the Saudi government attempted to kidnap a regime critic on American soil, according to the critic and multiple U.S. and foreign sources familiar with the episode. The young Saudi man says the FBI saved him from becoming the next Jamal Khashoggi.

Abdulrahman Almutairi is a 27-year-old comedian and former student at the University of San Diego with a big social-media presence. After Almutairi used social media to criticize the powerful Crown Prince Mohammad bin Salman over the October 2018 murder and dismemberment of Washington Post contributor Khashoggi, an unidentified Saudi man accompanied Almutairi’s father on a flight to collect Almutairi against his will and bring him back to Saudi Arabia, according to The Daily Beast’s sources.
...
Almutairi has previously spoken about the harassment he received as a critic of the Saudi government, most prominently to PBS’ Nick Shifrin, including a mysterious phone call from a Saudi trying to get Almutairi to come home for a “family reunion.” But he has not, until now, revealed the attempted capture. “I couldn’t afford to speak out earlier, my situation was so intense, and all I wanted was to get out of it,” he explained. But over a year later, Almutairi doesn’t speak with his family, lives for protracted stretches out of his car, and generally fears for his life.
...
But the harassment may have worked. In the new year, Almutairi told The Daily Beast, he’s going to stop speaking out against the Saudi government.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

According to our soon-to-be new Director of National Intelligence, Khashoggi's killer will be named:
Reportedly, the CIA concluded shortly after the grisly 2018 murder that Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman had Khashoggi murdered to silence a critic. But the Trump administration, which cultivated the man known as MBS, kept that assessment from public view. Sen. Ron Wyden (D-OR), who asked Haines if she would provide a public assessment, as a 2019 defense bill required, said it was “refreshing to hear a straightforward commitment to follow the law from DNI-nominee Haines, after a year of stonewalling by the Trump administration to conceal the identity of who ordered Jamal Khashoggi’s murder.”
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

MBS had Khashoggi killed. And it is clear that Trump and Pompeo helped him cover it up.
Saudi Arabia’s Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman “approved” the operation that led to the brutal 2018 murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, according to a long-withheld U.S. intelligence report made public Friday.

The unclassified report, by the Office of the Director of National Intelligence (ODNI), confirmed classified conclusions reached by the CIA just weeks after the killing of the dissident writer, a Virginia resident and contributing columnist for The Washington Post.

The two-page report said the intelligence community based its conclusions on the absolute control the crown prince, known as MBS, had over decision-making in the kingdom, his “support for using violent measures to silence dissidents abroad, including Khashoggi,” and the participation in the operation of his senior aides and security officials.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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BI
United Nations officials informed French and American intelligence services last year that a Saudi official appeared to threaten the life of a UN researcher investigating the murder of Saudi journalist Jamal Khashoggi, sources told Insider. But neither government reacted overtly to the news. So the UN and the official — angry at the lack of action — leaked the threat to the media this week, according to two European officials familiar with the incident.

Agnes Callamard, an independent French human rights investigator working for the UN, has aggressively investigated the 2018 murder of Khashoggi in the Saudi consulate in Istanbul, much to the dismay of Saudi officials. The Saudis called a meeting in January 2020 to complain about her, two European Union security officials told Insider. Their account confirmed the account given publicly earlier in the week by Callamard to the Guardian newspaper.

The threat, which the UN confirmed the day after Callamard disclosed it to the Guardian, involved the Saudi chairman for the Human Rights Commission, Awwad Alawwad. He told UN officials at least twice that if Callamard did not ease off her investigation and anti-Saudi rhetoric there were people willing to kill her. At one point he indicated he was about to phone such people during the meeting. UN officials immediately ended the meeting, warned Callamard and passed along the threats to US and French intelligence.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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NPR
Local officials in Washington, D.C., have passed a bill that will name a portion of the street outside the Saudi embassy after slain Washington Post journalist Jamal Khashoggi.

The 'Jamal Khashoggi Way Designation Act,' which passed unanimously on Tuesday, will serve as a reminder of the dangers faced by journalists across the world, noting that a free press is "fundamental to our democracy," said D.C. councilmember Brooke Pinto in a statement.
...
The 600 block of New Hampshire Avenue in D.C. will be designated as Jamal Khashoggi Way in a public ceremony next month.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Max Peck »

I'm sure the Saudis will crack this case wide open. For great justice!

Turkey suspends trial of 26 Saudi suspects in Khashoggi killing
A Turkish court ruled Thursday to suspend the trial in absentia of 26 Saudis accused in the gruesome killing of Washington Post columnist Jamal Khashoggi and for the case to be transferred to Saudi Arabia.

Khashoggi, a United States resident who wrote critically about Saudi Crown Prince Prince Mohammed bin Salman, was killed on Oct. 2, 2018, at the Saudi Consulate in Istanbul. He had gone into the consulate for an appointment to collect documents required for him to marry his Turkish fiancée, Hatice Cengiz. He never emerged from the building.

Turkish officials alleged that Khashoggi was killed and then dismembered with a bone saw inside the consulate by a team of Saudi agents sent to Istanbul. The group included a forensic doctor, intelligence and security officers, and individuals who worked for the crown prince's office. His remains have not been found.

The Istanbul court's decision comes despite warnings from human rights groups that turning the case over to the kingdom would lead to a coverup of the killing, which has cast suspicion on the crown prince.
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malchior
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

What a great ally!

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Unagi »

And with that, oil prices will squarely land in Biden’s lap.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth »

When you're an ally, they let you do it...

https://www.washingtonpost.com/opinions ... di-arabia/
The Saudi government has sentenced a 72-year-old U.S. citizen to 16 years in prison for tweets he posted while inside the United States, some of which were critical of the Saudi regime. His son, speaking publicly for the first time, alleges that the Saudi government has tortured his father in prison and says that the State Department mishandled the case.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

American foreign policy is at times grotesque but sometimes it's hard to know if this is just the utter incompetence of the US government or playing dumb.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

Expecting any country to place one citizen’s life anywhere on the importance scale is a losing bet.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Pyperkub »

malchior wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:47 pm What a great ally!

They are at the Xi/Putin/Netanyahu point, deciding to go all in on partisan support of the authoritarian GOP in order to undermine the USA.

It's actually getting rather unsettling.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Pyperkub wrote:
malchior wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:47 pm What a great ally!

They are at the Xi/Putin/Netanyahu point, deciding to go all in on partisan support of the authoritarian GOP in order to undermine the USA.

It's actually getting rather unsettling.
This is a bit of Occam's razor, I think. While I'm sure they prefer GOP leadership (though I'm not positive as the conservative hawks are much more a threat), I think it's more about the end of the oil age. There's pressure to reduce oil usage globally and that directly affects OPEC economies. They are likely just squeezing every last dollar they can out of their asset.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Pyperkub »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Oct 19, 2022 10:47 am
Pyperkub wrote:
malchior wrote: Wed Apr 20, 2022 3:47 pm What a great ally!

They are at the Xi/Putin/Netanyahu point, deciding to go all in on partisan support of the authoritarian GOP in order to undermine the USA.

It's actually getting rather unsettling.
This is a bit of Occam's razor, I think. While I'm sure they prefer GOP leadership (though I'm not positive as the conservative hawks are much more a threat), I think it's more about the end of the oil age. There's pressure to reduce oil usage globally and that directly affects OPEC economies. They are likely just squeezing every last dollar they can out of their asset.
Yup, tho it does appear as if they are at least diversifying much better than American Oil companies:
During his ongoing tour of the US, Saudi Crown Prince Mohammed bin Salman announced plans to generate 200 gigawatts of solar energy by 2030—the largest solar project ever conceived, through a partnership with Japanese telecom investor SoftBank, according to CNBC.

The partnership is expected to lead to $200 billion in solar investments and create 100,000 jobs for the country, Al Jazeera reports.
Tho I do think that if the West can completely get off of the Middle East Oil Teat, they can still be regional energy producers, but NOT have the outsized global impact they have (and hopefully not the money to continue under the table financing of Terror and Wars based on religious differences). It is definitely a threat to them, but so is Climate Change in a HUGE way. Short term preservation of global power and influence still seems to rule the day, checked somewhat by huge religious/power competition issues in the region.
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Fireball »

Saudi Arabia behaves like an enemy of the United States, and we should return the favor.

The day isn't far off when the market for Saudi oil collapses, and this regime's ability to buy docility from their oppressed citizens with gobs of free cash will evaporate. The violence that the Saudi family will face will be immense, and swift, and we shouldn't lift so much as a finger to help them when that day comes.

In the mean time, we should incentivize domestic oil production while doubling down on decarbonizing our economy. Use American oil for America's needs, and tell OPEC to fuck right off.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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A big +1
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Re: All Things Saudi

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+1 +1
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Little Raven »

I like Biden, and generally think he's been especially strong on foreign affairs.

But surely he wasn't so naive as to trust the House of Saud.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Little Raven wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 9:14 am I like Biden, and generally think he's been especially strong on foreign affairs.

But surely he wasn't so naive as to trust the House of Saud.
I suspect he (or his staff) felt he had to "Do Something (TM)" and as usual when that option is invoked, it rarely ends well. Everything I have read (and just the obvious results/non-results) points to that "begging" trip being a huge mistake.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Fireball wrote: Thu Oct 20, 2022 11:10 am Saudi Arabia behaves like an enemy of the United States, and we should return the favor.

The day isn't far off when the market for Saudi oil collapses, and this regime's ability to buy docility from their oppressed citizens with gobs of free cash will evaporate. The violence that the Saudi family will face will be immense, and swift, and we shouldn't lift so much as a finger to help them when that day comes.

In the mean time, we should incentivize domestic oil production while doubling down on decarbonizing our economy. Use American oil for America's needs, and tell OPEC to fuck right off.
Agree with the first and last bits.

But the part about the Saudis going down with the oil ship is not as obvious (to me). They have seen the end of the oil age coming for decades, and started planning for it many years ago. They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense), investing in solar, and AI among other things.

Did they start soon enough? Dunno, but they have a SHIT ton of wealth to pour into whatever they want to buy/generate influence and power. Now is the time to cash out from their oil salad days, and they seem to be doing it with gusto.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by LordMortis »

I dunno. Maybe a slap and rejection like that will invoke the idea that we need to both encourage oil extraction/production in the US in the very near term while also encouraging reduced reliance on oil extraction/production in the US also in the near term. If Saudi/Russia/Iran have shown us anything, it's that we need to re-establish that energy is national security. If we can't encourage domestic oil production in the free market that maybe start competing with it with quasi government production? Biden and Congress should be treating this as rallying cry to onshore work and if domestic oil resists then we can divert tens of billions in funding to compete with them, as we need to do to compete with OPEC+.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

The problem isn't that we buy so much oil from them, it's that it's a commodity market.

Enlarge Image
Only about 11% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum product imports come from OPEC nations, with another 16.3% coming from OPEC+ members.

While imports from OPEC and OPEC+ members make up more than a quarter of America’s total petroleum imports, this share is fairly small when considering OPEC members currently control nearly 80% of the world’s oil reserves.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:24 am The problem isn't that we buy so much oil from them, it's that it's a commodity market.
And there's nothing more American than buying up your competition.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 amBut the part about the Saudis going down with the oil ship is not as obvious (to me). They have seen the end of the oil age coming for decades, and started planning for it many years ago. They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense), investing in solar, and AI among other things.
Right. They are attempting to build a Wonder of the World type-project in the form of an Arcology - The Line. Is it real? Shrug but they seem to be looking to invest in something with their to be diminishing oil returns.
The future starts now? Drone footage shows construction beginning on Saudi Arabia’s sci-fi megacity called The Line—a city planned to be 105 miles (170 kilometers) long that people can live and work in without ever leaving.

As another day of failed cryptocurrency companies and Big Brother watching us passes, it truly feels like we are inching ever-closer to a bleak future from a sci-fi novel—the only thing we’ve really been missing is a futuristic megalopolis. Saudi Arabia’s The Line caught headlines this past summer for its sleek and arguably unnecessary approach to a city—featuring a mirrored exterior that contains a completely self-contained city that is 546 yards (500 meters) tall, 218 yards (200 meters) wide, and a whopping 105 miles (170 kilometers) long. While the knee-jerk reaction was rampant skepticism over when and how this monstrosity would ever get off the ground, new footage from Saudi Arabia confirms that The Line is officially a work in progress.
Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:24 am The problem isn't that we buy so much oil from them, it's that it's a commodity market.

Enlarge Image
Only about 11% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum product imports come from OPEC nations, with another 16.3% coming from OPEC+ members.

While imports from OPEC and OPEC+ members make up more than a quarter of America’s total petroleum imports, this share is fairly small when considering OPEC members currently control nearly 80% of the world’s oil reserves.
Lot of folks don't understand this. We produce a lot of oil and gasoline. We could cut off the world and hoard it but that'll have massive world order smashing consequences. So lots of players instead just lie about drilling rights and domestic production.

The conservative world's point of view on this is a combo of stupid and dishonest. For example, Josh Barro, part of Fed's justice podcast, often talks about this in the press and Twitter. It's a relatively constant talking point of his. His idea is that the Biden administration dropped the ball by not focusing on oil production and gas prices at the beginning of his administration. It's incredibly stupid from a guy that when you hear him talk seems intelligent.

I mean it either is either no understanding about how the oil world works, dishonesty, or just terrible analysis skills. Pick one but it's just wrong to suggest this. Even if we wanted to increase production greatly - which we don't because it is killing the fucking ability for humans to survive on this planet - exploration and development is a multi-year project. It's not a turn the dial a year and a half ago and avoid oil price spikes today. The big oil companies are sitting on thousands of leases. They only produce economically viable ones. And it takes a lot of investment and time. And the investment cycle is super unstable because oil prices aren't...stable. It's all really, really, really, really dumb stuff.
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Re: All Things Saudi

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Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:24 am The problem isn't that we buy so much oil from them, it's that it's a commodity market.

Enlarge Image
Only about 11% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum product imports come from OPEC nations, with another 16.3% coming from OPEC+ members.

While imports from OPEC and OPEC+ members make up more than a quarter of America’s total petroleum imports, this share is fairly small when considering OPEC members currently control nearly 80% of the world’s oil reserves.
We are 500 million barrels less in domestic production than the 2020 peak rate. Link shows production in 1000s barrels per day.

Www.macrotrends.net/2562/us-crude-oil-p ... ical-chart
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by malchior »

Montag wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:51 am
Isgrimnur wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:24 am The problem isn't that we buy so much oil from them, it's that it's a commodity market.

Enlarge Image
Only about 11% of U.S. crude oil and petroleum product imports come from OPEC nations, with another 16.3% coming from OPEC+ members.

While imports from OPEC and OPEC+ members make up more than a quarter of America’s total petroleum imports, this share is fairly small when considering OPEC members currently control nearly 80% of the world’s oil reserves.
We are 500 million barrels less in domestic production than the 2020 peak rate. Link shows production in 1000s barrels per day.

Www.macrotrends.net/2562/us-crude-oil-p ... ical-chart
It's the same answer. It is due to it being part of a commodity market. The oil didn't just vanish during the pandemic. Also, the Biden administration didn't change the rules about what those existing facilities could produce if they so chose. Those levels are where they are because of the economics. The expected sales price, the cost of good sold (labor driven) is higher here, and other factors. In other words, oil production exists as part of a - wait for it - competitive commodities market with a lot of variability. We could try to solve for it at a policy level but that'd live with Congress because unlike Saudi Arabia we can't import -- ahem -- "cheap" labor. Well we could drive that cost down (not to near-slave wage levels like overseas) but then the conservatives would SCREAM about that.

Edit: I also left out the part where some oil companies strategically abandoned facilities during the pandemic to free up capital to diversify. The pandemic shook up that whole sector when the price collapsed to $20. That isn't something the current administration had any part of or could fix.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 am They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense)
You think they influenced FIFA to have the WC in Qatar?
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Isgrimnur »

redacted
Last edited by Isgrimnur on Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:55 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:20 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 am They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense)
You think they influenced FIFA to have the WC in Qatar?
Oops. :D :oops: :oops: :oops:

Tried to think of a smart ass way to double down on that, but I got nothin'.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Alefroth »

Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:50 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:20 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 am They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense)
You think they influenced FIFA to have the WC in Qatar?
Oops. :D :oops: :oops: :oops:

Tried to think of a smart ass way to double down on that, but I got nothin'.
To be fair, they do have their sights on the 2030 WC, but I think that's too soon for a return to that part of the world.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Carpet_pissr »

Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 2:06 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:50 pm
Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:20 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 am They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense)
You think they influenced FIFA to have the WC in Qatar?
Oops. :D :oops: :oops: :oops:

Tried to think of a smart ass way to double down on that, but I got nothin'.
To be fair, they do have their sights on the 2030 WC, but I think that's too soon for a return to that part of the world.
Unless you have more money than God. Then that could totally happen.

I remember when they announced Qatar, and what an uproar that caused, with people calling FIFA management corrupt, etc. And how the players (and fans) would be having heat strokes right and left, etc.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Holman »

Alefroth wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 1:20 pm
Carpet_pissr wrote: Wed Oct 26, 2022 10:13 am They have been diversifying like crazy...buying, then creating and certainly influincing major sports brands and teams (hellooooo FIFA WC hosts, even though it makes NO damn sense)
You think they influenced FIFA to have the WC in Qatar?
Crooked Media has a new podcast miniseries on just this topic.
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Re: All Things Saudi

Post by Smoove_B »

We are so goddamn stupid:
In June, The Arizona Republic uncovered the story of how the State Land Department had recently handed over thousands of acres to a Saudi corporation called Fondomonte, giving it permission to pump unlimited amounts of groundwater to grow alfalfa hay for export to Saudi Arabia.

This tale of official misfeasance began in 2015 when the State Land Department began leasing land to Fondomonte at an annual rental of just $25 per acre.

However, the 2015 lease in addition allowed Fondomonte to pump unlimited amounts of groundwater at no cost whatever.

How much is Fondomonte pumping? The company refuses to disclose how much water it uses each year, and the State Land Department has never bothered to demand reports. That Fondomonte is growing alfalfa year round on approximately 3,500 acres can be verified from aerial photos.

And according to U.S. Geological Survey studies, alfalfa in Butler Valley requires 6.4 acre-feet of water per acre. That means the company has likely been pumping 22,400 acre-feet of water each year for the last 7 years.
It'll make more sense once you read the dollar amount:
The appropriate method for determining true value is hiding in plain sight. The Central Arizona Project sells water to customers throughout Maricopa County for $242 per acre foot delivered through the project canal that passes just south of Butler Valley.

...

Add these figures, and Fondomonte should have been paying $5.42 million per year for each of the last seven years
EDIT: NOTE - it's a story from August of this year, but it's coming up again because of the insane elections in AZ
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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