The 4th Estate Thread Has Surrendered

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

NEW: The graphic video of Trump shooting people inside a church was posted by an account connected to Russian intelligence. The account posted a conspiracy theory video in 2016 about the DNC hack and then linked to "whatdoesitmean" - a suspected Russian intelligence front
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Russian intelligence. That feels...all too likely nowadays.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman »

Plz remove "Semi-" from thread title, thx.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Holman wrote: Mon Oct 14, 2019 8:09 pm Plz remove "Semi-" from thread title, thx.
And "Watch." Thx.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

At this point I'm wondering if the social media people at the NY Times is trolling everyone...



They did eventually update it...after people flipped out on them once again.



Then changed it again.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

The Internet to the Rescue (for a price - bias over truth):
Dozens of websites branded as local news outlets launched throughout Michigan this fall, with monikers like Lansing Sun, Ann Arbor Times, Thumb Reporter and UP Gazette, promising local news but also offering political messaging.

The nearly 40 new sites present a challenge for readers navigating a digital media environment that has unlimited space for publishing stories that are hard to distinguish as journalism, advocacy or political messaging....

...Political information outlets aren't new, he said, but presenting them as non-biased local news sources is.

"The big issue is this extent to which they have gone to try to confuse about this being the site of a local newspaper," he said...

...She contrasted "information with a perspective" with advocacy journalism. To her, transparency is the difference — an organization's perspective should be obvious to online readers who might see the name of the outlet but not make the effort to find and read its mission statement.
If there's one thing Right-leaning sites are great at, it's transparency (/sarcasm).
Black Lives definitely Matter Lorini!

Also: There are three ways to not tell the truth: lies, damned lies, and statistics.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

File it under whoops the NY Times screwed up yet another Hillary Clinton story. Even after it is corrected, she didn't say the GOP was directly grooming her. She said they could only win if they suppress the vote in certain states and encourage 3rd party candidates like Gabbard to split the vote. That sounds like it reflects the CW at the moment so it isn't off the rails like it was portrayed.

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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Russians, Republicans - same genetic material.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman »

Much prefer my Nazis Nuremberged.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Alefroth »

malchior wrote: Wed Oct 23, 2019 5:54 am File it under whoops the NY Times screwed up yet another Hillary Clinton story. Even after it is corrected, she didn't say the GOP was directly grooming her. She said they could only win if they suppress the vote in certain states and encourage 3rd party candidates like Gabbard to split the vote. That sounds like it reflects the CW at the moment so it isn't off the rails like it was portrayed.

I thought Gabbard went on the defense rather quickly.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LordMortis »

Pyperkub wrote: Mon Oct 21, 2019 8:55 pm The Internet to the Rescue (for a price - bias over truth):
Dozens of websites branded as local news outlets launched throughout Michigan this fall, with monikers like Lansing Sun, Ann Arbor Times, Thumb Reporter and UP Gazette, promising local news but also offering political messaging.

The nearly 40 new sites present a challenge for readers navigating a digital media environment that has unlimited space for publishing stories that are hard to distinguish as journalism, advocacy or political messaging....

...Political information outlets aren't new, he said, but presenting them as non-biased local news sources is.

"The big issue is this extent to which they have gone to try to confuse about this being the site of a local newspaper," he said...

...She contrasted "information with a perspective" with advocacy journalism. To her, transparency is the difference — an organization's perspective should be obvious to online readers who might see the name of the outlet but not make the effort to find and read its mission statement.
If there's one thing Right-leaning sites are great at, it's transparency (/sarcasm).
That's a fascination rabbit hole

https://www.chicagotribune.com/business ... story.html

Here is a bit of history of the brain child from the Sun times from nearly a decade ago.

And NPR followup...



And my favorite contemporary author Etkar Keret

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/468/switcheroo

https://www.thisamericanlife.org/extras ... -journatic
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Kraken »

Trump to government: No more real news for you!
The White House plans to order all federal agencies not to renew their subscriptions to the New York Times and the Washington Post, two papers that President Trump has repeatedly attacked for their critical coverage of his administration, the Wall Street Journal reports.

The big picture: The White House said on Tuesday that it would cancel its own subscriptions to the Post and the Times, after Trump complained that they were "fake" during an appearance this week on Fox News' "Hannity." White House Press Secretary Stephanie Grisham said in an email to the Journal: "Not renewing subscriptions across all federal agencies will be a significant cost saving — hundreds of thousands of taxpayer dollars will be saved."

Between the lines: Axios' Sara Fischer notes that the Post and the Times each make around $20 million annually by selling political and issue ads (mostly issue ads) that are geared toward reaching policy makers and opinion leaders at key D.C. institutions, including the White House and federal agencies. Hundreds of copies of the two newspapers are distributed to the White House and agencies.

These are expensive ads, and they’re typically the only types of ads with pricing that can’t be negotiated or bartered down.
In fact, the Times touts its reach into the White House when selling ads. It even created a separate D.C. edition of its paper printed out of Springfield, Virginia, just to make it cheaper to target federal agencies with ads that could be locally inserted.

The bottom line: This move, if the White House follows through on it, will have an advertising impact on the newspapers at a time when the issue advocacy market is really hot.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Alefroth »

He's no Sarah Palin.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Good op ed IMO rightly chastising the massive pearl clutching that is the media's predictable reaction to the 'Lock Him Up' chant at the World Series. They cannot break away from bothsideism. Whether it is Joe Scarborough or Chuck Todd. These guys are intellectually incapable of seeing that this is not equivalent to the chants at Trump rallies. One is literally a political leader leading his flock to talk about persecuting his political opponents. And he tried to do it several times. The other is a crowd airing their dissent and parodying that message. Huge difference.

That the pundits are afraid of the projection of that chant to the world is hilarious. Everything Trump has said to the world and a crowd airing its dissent is dangerous? What the hell is wrong with these people?
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Alefroth »

From the comments on that op ed-

Rows and flows of deranged hair
Leveraged towers in the air
Quid pro quos everywhere
You've lived your life that way

Boos and jeers, I'm feelin' proud
That Nat fans trolled you right out loud
Deals and schemes and hired crowds
You've lived your life that way

You say you are the Chosen One
That you know more than everyone
So many things you could have done
But Dems got in your way

But now it's just a failed show
They're laughing AT you, don't you know?
And if you care, you should know
You gave yourself away

I've looked at Pols from both sides now
The right and left and still somehow
At the right's delusions I'm appalled
They really don't compare.....at all.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by pr0ner »

Daaaaaaamn.

Hodor.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Smoove_B »

:shock:
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by malchior »

Yup - btw - the guy on the left is John "Torture Memo" Yoo. These people are evil pieces of shit. We have to get past just saying this is just partisanship on steroids or whatever empty platitude of choice the very serious people default to. These people are destroying the fabric of our nation and we've got pundits whining about civility? This is exactly the time to not be nice about things. These people aren't nice. They aren't reasonable. This is way past madness.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote: Tue Oct 29, 2019 7:15 pm Yup - btw - the guy on the left is John "Torture Memo" Yoo. These people are evil pieces of shit. We have to get past just saying this is just partisanship on steroids or whatever empty platitude of choice the very serious people default to. These people are destroying the fabric of our nation and we've got pundits whining about civility? This is exactly the time to not be nice about things. These people aren't nice. They aren't reasonable. This is way past madness.
+1

Look at every important speech or essay that you could imagine including in a "Civics 101" syllabus focused on American social/political crises.

None of them--from Tom Paine to Frederick Douglass to MLK Jr--worry much at all about remaining civil.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Trump’s Retribution Against the Washington Post Owner Is His Gravest Abuse of Power

Latest impeachable scandal hiding in plain sight. Also one of the key steps for Trump for turning America into an authoritarian state, if he's given enough time to do so.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Jaymann »

Glad to see he's taking on Amazon. Those fuckers are going to rule the world.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Are you seriously saying that you think Trump is "taking on" Amazon out of some sense of duty to what's right? That it's not an incredibly dangerous move for the POTUS to punish those who he doesn't like by exercising his power in this manner? :shock:

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. :wink:
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:59 pm Are you seriously saying that you think Trump is "taking on" Amazon out of some sense of duty to what's right? That it's not an incredibly dangerous move for the POTUS to punish those who he doesn't like by exercising his power in this manner? :shock:

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. :wink:
I don't care why he's taking them on. Fight Mothra with Godzilla.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat »

And if you're giving Mothra permission to then attack you, that's okay too?

Are you really Drazzil in disguise? Cause I can't believe we have another "let it all burn down, I don't care!" thinker out there.
Last edited by hepcat on Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:45 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Holman »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:43 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:59 pm Are you seriously saying that you think Trump is "taking on" Amazon out of some sense of duty to what's right? That it's not an incredibly dangerous move for the POTUS to punish those who he doesn't like by exercising his power in this manner? :shock:

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. :wink:
I don't care why he's taking them on. Fight Mothra with Godzilla.
He's not after Amazon. He's after Bezos because of WaPo.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:44 pm And if you're giving Mothra permission to then attack you, that's okay too?

Are you really Drazzil in disguise?
Nope, hoping he won't survive.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:43 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:59 pm Are you seriously saying that you think Trump is "taking on" Amazon out of some sense of duty to what's right? That it's not an incredibly dangerous move for the POTUS to punish those who he doesn't like by exercising his power in this manner? :shock:

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. :wink:
I don't care why he's taking them on. Fight Mothra with Godzilla.
You should care why. Trump is clearly motivated by a desire to punish Bezos for negative media coverage in the Washington Post. To the extent that he succeeds in imposing a cost (or even just in displaying a willingness to punish companies economically for negative media coverage in outlets that they own), he will over time succeed in persuading media outlets to reduce negative coverage of Trump. And that is way more problematic than anything that Amazon is doing.

I get that defending Amazon in this situation is a bit like allying with Stalin to defeat Hitler. But that's still the right thing to do under the circumstances.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:45 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:44 pm And if you're giving Mothra permission to then attack you, that's okay too?

Are you really Drazzil in disguise?
Nope, hoping he won't survive.
Christ...really?

Wow. Just...wow. :roll:
El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm I get that defending Amazon in this situation is a bit like allying with Stalin to defeat Hitler. But that's still the right thing to do under the circumstances.
What has Amazon done that merits comparing them to any historical mass murderer? I think some folks are suffering from a case of the overly dramatic when it comes to Amazon. :wink:
Covfefe!
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Jaymann »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:43 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:59 pm Are you seriously saying that you think Trump is "taking on" Amazon out of some sense of duty to what's right? That it's not an incredibly dangerous move for the POTUS to punish those who he doesn't like by exercising his power in this manner? :shock:

I'm going to assume you're being sarcastic. :wink:
I don't care why he's taking them on. Fight Mothra with Godzilla.
You should care why. Trump is clearly motivated by a desire to punish Bezos for negative media coverage in the Washington Post. To the extent that he succeeds in imposing a cost (or even just in displaying a willingness to punish companies economically for negative media coverage in outlets that they own), he will over time succeed in persuading media outlets to reduce negative coverage of Trump. And that is way more problematic than anything that Amazon is doing.

I get that defending Amazon in this situation is a bit like allying with Stalin to defeat Hitler. But that's still the right thing to do under the circumstances.
Guapo gets it. We will have to rely on Warren to oppose Amazon once El Douche is dethroned.
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Post by hepcat »

I think you're reading things into his reply that aren't really there. He's agreeing that what you're hopeful for is INCREDIBLY dangerous. Unless you're okay with living in a dictatorship as long as Amazon dies?

By the way, shall we go after Microsoft, Apple, Disney and all other huge conglomerates while we're at it? I'm just curious if Amazon = bad because of some criminal behavior, or if they're evil simply because they're so successful?
Covfefe!
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm You should care why. Trump is clearly motivated by a desire to punish Bezos for negative media coverage in the Washington Post. To the extent that he succeeds in imposing a cost (or even just in displaying a willingness to punish companies economically for negative media coverage in outlets that they own), he will over time succeed in persuading media outlets to reduce negative coverage of Trump. And that is way more problematic than anything that Amazon is doing.
Surely this is a one-time thing we don't have to worry about Trump ever trying to do again. I mean, it's not like he would have the government oppose a major merger that included a media outlet he didn't like, causing large delays and costing millions of dollars, right?
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Post by hepcat »

Keep your head down, man. You work for AT&T. You're putting a huge target on your chest with these replies!
Covfefe!
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by Pyperkub »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 1:12 pm Glad to see he's taking on Amazon. Those fuckers are going to rule the world.
Actually, it's far more likely that it will be Alibaba:
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

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hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm I get that defending Amazon in this situation is a bit like allying with Stalin to defeat Hitler. But that's still the right thing to do under the circumstances.
What has Amazon done that merits comparing them to any historical mass murderer? I think some folks are suffering from a case of the overly dramatic when it comes to Amazon. :wink:
I'm (trying to) make the point that even if you think the Amazon is a horrible company (and there are certainly lots of valid criticisms of how the company operates) you should fully defend it against Trump's assaults, given that Trump's assaults are motivated by a desire to squelch the free press. Even if you think that Amazon is the corporate equivalent of Stalin, you should ally with them here.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LawBeefaroni »

hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:45 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:44 pm And if you're giving Mothra permission to then attack you, that's okay too?

Are you really Drazzil in disguise?
Nope, hoping he won't survive.
Christ...really?

Wow. Just...wow. :roll:
I think he means he hopes Mothra doesn't survive. Not Drazzil.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by El Guapo »

ImLawBoy wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:11 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm You should care why. Trump is clearly motivated by a desire to punish Bezos for negative media coverage in the Washington Post. To the extent that he succeeds in imposing a cost (or even just in displaying a willingness to punish companies economically for negative media coverage in outlets that they own), he will over time succeed in persuading media outlets to reduce negative coverage of Trump. And that is way more problematic than anything that Amazon is doing.
Surely this is a one-time thing we don't have to worry about Trump ever trying to do again. I mean, it's not like he would have the government oppose a major merger that included a media outlet he didn't like, causing large delays and costing millions of dollars, right?
I don't want to overreact and assume that Trump will continue trying to punish corporate owners of negative media outlets, just because he said that he would do that during the presidential campaign, immediately started doing it as president, and has continued to do that while saying that he'll keep doing that.
Black Lives Matter.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by LordMortis »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:33 pm I'm (trying to) make the point that even if you think the Amazon is a horrible company (and there are certainly lots of valid criticisms of how the company operates) you should fully defend it against Trump's assaults, given that Trump's assaults are motivated by a desire to squelch the free press. Even if you think that Amazon is the corporate equivalent of Stalin, you should ally with them here.
To listen to AG Barr, it's OK because Trump said what he's going to do. The crises we face is with "the resistance"



https://www.realclearpolitics.com/video ... tance.html
Immediately after President Trump won election, opponents inaugurated what they called “The Resistance,” and they rallied around an explicit strategy of using every tool and maneuver available to sabotage the functioning of his Administration. Now, “resistance” is the language used to describe insurgency against rule imposed by an occupying military power. It obviously connotes that the government is not legitimate. This is a very dangerous – indeed incendiary – notion to import into the politics of a democratic republic. What it means is that, instead of viewing themselves as the “loyal opposition,” as opposing parties have done in the past, they essentially see themselves as engaged in a war to cripple, by any means necessary, a duly elected government.
....
One of the ironies of today is that those who oppose this President constantly accuse this Administration of “shredding” constitutional norms and waging a war on the rule of law. When I ask my friends on the other side, what exactly are you referring to? I get vacuous stares, followed by sputtering about the Travel Ban or some such thing. While the President has certainly thrown out the traditional Beltway playbook, he was upfront about that beforehand, and the people voted for him. What I am talking about today are fundamental constitutional precepts. The fact is that this Administration’s policy initiatives and proposed rules, including the Travel Ban, have transgressed neither constitutional, nor traditional, norms, and have been amply supported by the law and patiently litigated through the Court system to vindication.
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:33 pm I'm (trying to) make the point that even if you think the Amazon is a horrible company (and there are certainly lots of valid criticisms of how the company operates) you should fully defend it against Trump's assaults, given that Trump's assaults are motivated by a desire to squelch the free press. Even if you think that Amazon is the corporate equivalent of Stalin, you should ally with them here.
I did some poking around and found a wikipedia entry for questionable business practices of Amazon.

Of course, I also found one for Apple, Microsoft, Disney, Walmart and evidence that Ben and Jerry's ice cream was trying to corrupt our children.
I didn't look up Fantasy Flight Games because I still want to believe in Santa Clause.

But anyway, my point is that Herve Villacheze was a seriously underrated singer.
LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:49 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:48 pm
Jaymann wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:45 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 3:44 pm And if you're giving Mothra permission to then attack you, that's okay too?

Are you really Drazzil in disguise?
Nope, hoping he won't survive.
Christ...really?

Wow. Just...wow. :roll:
I think he means he hopes Mothra doesn't survive. Not Drazzil.
:lol:
Covfefe!
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hepcat wrote: Mon Nov 18, 2019 4:54 pm because I still want to believe in Santa Clause.
Really entertaining movie - fun for the whole family!
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Re: The Semi-Official Death Watch of the 4th Estate Thread

Post by hepcat »

D'Oh! Looking at it now, I still want to add the "e" at the end. :doh:
Covfefe!
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