The Former Trump Presidency Thread

[LawBeefaroni]

Sniffing or not, I watched all 8 minutes of that speech and I don't know how anyone can think that man is well - mentally and physically. He should really finish the second half of his physical because dude was out of breath walking up to the podium.

That's nothing that 6 fried chickens and a dozen cheeseburgers for lunch can't cure.

I believe that particular cure would go down better with a jug of high fructose corn syrup and a pint of melted butter.

And a suicide note on a hundred dollar bill.

If he dies quietly of natural causes I put the odds on a fake assassination martyrdom at 50/50. Deep-state. Qanon. Or I guess the Boogaloo.

There is really no way to win.

[Unagi]

That’s a loss I would take.

[Scoop20906]

#Trumpdidntkillhimself

[Holman]

#Trumpdidntkillhimself

#Trumpdidntaneurysmandshithimselfandtweet"ohmygodmybrainandbutt"!!1!

[Kraken]

Guys, we have a thread for this.

[Paingod]

I went to YouTube to watch a video of his face, silently (no audio; his voice fills me with rage) to see if I could spot his huge, dilated pupils myself. I clicked the first link without looking at it, and paused at several points where his eyes were illuminated well enough and opened enough to actually see his pupils, and wow. He was flying on something during his press meeting yesterday. The interwebs say it could easily be drug use - but even something as mundane as Benadryl could do it and it doesn't have to be Adderall. I think someone said he sniffed something like 57 times during the speech, which would track if he was sick and maybe on Benadryl - but also maybe if he was on something else. I don't know his personal health very well, nor do I really want to.

Then I made the mistake of scrolling down, finding I was on Fox's YouTube channel, and checking a few comments. It's genuinely hard to believe that people are so in love with this man for as foul as he is - and is proud to be. People were praising the giant purple bags under his eyes (because he must be working so hard), reminding us all that Democrats are treasonous, and generally wallowing in hate.

If there's a better description for this man and his followers than the ending scenes of Slither where all the slug zombies are merging into one massive blob of flesh and loving it, I don't know what it would be.

[YellowKing]

Unless he's had a cold for the last 4 years, his sniffles are the sign of something else. It was even pointed out in the debates back in 2016.

There was an eye-opening article on Politico where they were talking to Trump supporters, and almost all of them admitted the guy was a sleazebag, but they were willing to accept all those flaws because he "wasn't like the typical DC politician."

The irony to me is that the so called cultural warriors of the right have embraced someone who is the very antithesis of moral values. Remember the whole "Clinton smoked pot but didn't inhale" scandal? And here this guy is banging porn stars, drugged out of his mind, never goes to church, cusses like a sailor, lies with every word coming out of his mouth, and they love him.

Historians will look back on this and see that The Apprentice was the downfall of America.

[Paingod]

The irony to me is that the so called cultural warriors of the right have embraced someone who is the very antithesis of moral values.

I simply can't imagine being so afraid of losing something that I'd be willing to not just stand behind but cheer for and defend someone like that. If that's who you have to be in order to get what you want, you should seriously check your compass and make sure it's not broken.

[Smoove_B]

Right , none of it makes any sense until you look at it through the lens of winning vs losing. It's not about laws, it's not about what is best for society as a whole or what is morally the best path to take. It's about doing whatever you can to win because winning is the most important thing. Once you get your mind around that, everything else falls into place.

[malchior]

Right , none of it makes any sense until you look at it through the lens of winning vs losing. It's not about laws, it's not about what is best for society as a whole or what is morally the best path to take. It's about doing whatever you can to win because winning is the most important thing. Once you get your mind around that, everything else falls into place.

It's more than that on the GOP side. The motivation to win isn't all there is. It is to win at any cost to show that the other side is wrong in the face of whatever doctrine they espouse and blind themselves to the notion that there own approach could be wrong. Whenever you point out the wrong you are immediately outside the group and either have to renounce it or leave. There is no in-between or reflection. It is a clear separation between the GOP base/deplorables and everyone else. It isn't just between GOP and Democrats.

[stimpy]

And the Democrats are willing to compromise on......

[malchior]

And the Democrats are willing to compromise on......

Come on man this is pretty lazy.

[stimpy]

Not really.
A lot of lip service given to how shitty the Repubs are, but really....what have the Dems done to counter balance the insanity, other than nothing?
I know they try and use the courts to stop what they consider harmful, usually to no avail, but at what point does serving the public become more important than egos?

[malchior]

Not really.
A lot of lip service given to how shitty the Repubs are, but really....what have the Dems done to counter balance the insanity, other than nothing?

Nah - this is really lazy. I'm no fan of the Democrats but they aren't doing nothing. You could make an argument that they've been very ineffective politically *grand scheme* over the last ~15 years when the GOP started to really get there game together but it wasn't for lack of trying. And it's a *whole lot* more complicated than they won't compromise mostly because they have compromised a lot. Probably too much as they needed to get tough as well.

[stimpy]

Sorry. Added some after your post.

[Smoove_B]

The mistake the (D) party is making is that they're treating this current problem like it's the same as every other one instead of realizing they're locked into a no-win situation with a death cult. All you need to do is look at the pending 2020 election to realize things are going to get much, much worse.

And as much as I want to put this on the backs of specific politicians of any stripe, the sad truth is that the real problem is the unmotivated middle that doesn't vote and doesn't care. We are absolutely getting the government (and President) we deserve.

[noxiousdog]

And as much as I want to put this on the backs of specific politicians of any stripe, the sad truth is that the real problem is the unmotivated middle that doesn't vote and doesn't care. We are absolutely getting the government (and President) we deserve.

It's worse than that. The unmotivated middle is strongly democratic leaning.

However, the good news is the college student rate doubled in 2018.

[malchior]

And as much as I want to put this on the backs of specific politicians of any stripe, the sad truth is that the real problem is the unmotivated middle that doesn't vote and doesn't care. We are absolutely getting the government (and President) we deserve.

I agree mostly but there are significant non-democratic element built into this system that I think encourages some of the apathy. The EC makes Presidential elections feel inconsequential for many people. The Senate structure which is in effect now an extension of the same mechanism has lead to political outcomes that don't benefit the citizens at large, change candidates were handcuffed severely, etc.

But yeah turnout hasn't been good for years. Maybe because the quality of our political leadership is relatively poor. I don't know. We saw big swings for the big change candidates like Clinton and Obama and a massive swing for mid-terms in 2018 - which btw was the biggest turnout for a mid-term since women got the vote. That said, I suspect turnout is going to be extremely high this year. That is good for the Democrats but still great risk to the system. Can you imagine what will happen if Trump still wins via a tight EC victory but see a lopsided popular vote in favor of the Dem? I can't even wrap my mind around it yet.

[Alefroth]

what have the Dems done to counter balance the insanity,

What should they be doing?

[LordMortis]

And the Democrats are willing to compromise on......

The same things the GOP have compromised on between 2015 and 2018? Nothing more.

what have the Dems done to counter balance the insanity,

What should they be doing?

And why? What good has done to date? This quote hit me particularly hard not too long ago.

“Stupidity is a more dangerous enemy of the good than malice. One may protest against evil; it can be exposed and, if need be, prevented by use of force. Evil always carries within itself the germ of its own subversion in that it leaves behind in human beings at least a sense of unease. Against stupidity we are defenseless. Neither protests nor the use of force accomplish anything here; reasons fall on deaf ears; facts that contradict one’s prejudgment simply need not be believed – in such moments the stupid person even becomes critical – and when facts are irrefutable they are just pushed aside as inconsequential, as incidental. In all this the stupid person, in contrast to the malicious one, is utterly self satisfied and, being easily irritated, becomes dangerous by going on the attack. For that reason, greater caution is called for when dealing with a stupid person than with a malicious one. Never again will we try to persuade the stupid person with reasons, for it is senseless and dangerous.”

[LawBeefaroni]

Can you imagine what will happen if Trump still wins via a tight EC victory but see a lopsided popular vote in favor of the Dem? I can't even wrap my mind around it yet.

If by lopsided you mean more lopsided than last time, it won't happen. With all the shit going on, no one is paying attention to voting machines. They are compromised and the popular vote is totally malleable.

Does anyone even care about the dog and pony show happening before Congress right now?

[malchior]

Can you imagine what will happen if Trump still wins via a tight EC victory but see a lopsided popular vote in favor of the Dem? I can't even wrap my mind around it yet.

Won't happen. With all the shit going on, no one is paying attention to voting machines. They are compromised and the popular vote is totally malleable.

Does anyone even care about the dog and pony show happening before Congress right now?

Fair I was talking about a free and fair election. This is why #moscowmitch is so accurate. He has blocked *debate* - just fucking *debate* on any of the election security bills. Obama should have ignored his ass and talked about Russia in 2016. There really seems to be something hinky with him beyond being a ruthless sociopath.

[YellowKing]

The other reason Democrats have been fairly ineffective is that they're abiding by the rules in a game where there are no rules.

I'm not saying that Democrats never use parliamentary tricks or other shenanigans to advance their political agenda, or that they've never gerrymandered to give themselves an advantage. I'm saying that by and large, they're working within the bounds of traditional politics. IE they're not standing behind untruths and conspiracy theories, they're not throwing out their moral compasses, they're not systematically destroying democracy in order to stay in power.

I applaud that they haven't gone down the same dirty road as the GOP, but at the same time I realize that it's just allowing them to be steamrolled by the side that doesn't give a crap.

It's why I'm so torn on the 2020 candidate. On one hand, I feel like it's going to take a moderate peacekeeper like Biden or Buttigieg to start healing the divide in this country. On the other hand, I feel like the only way to undo any of Trump's wrongdoing and stand up to the GOP is to go hard progressive and battle from the other extreme with a Warren or Sanders. I don't know what the "right" answer is or if there even is a right answer. Barring an alien invasion, I don't really know how we recover from the deep polarization we're living under.

[malchior]

It's why I'm so torn on the 2020 candidate. On one hand, I feel like it's going to take a moderate peacekeeper like Biden or Buttigieg to start healing the divide in this country.

This is a bit of a fantasy. Biden is delusional about the divide existing. He thinks McConnell will get better. It will indeed be slightly better because he is a former Senator and is to be blunt white. However, unless the Senate flips, a future President Biden is getting jack shit done legislatively. When in power the GOP Senate gets most credit for installing judges and tax cuts. When not in power they get credit for blocking D agendas and judges. That is the overarching dynamic and Biden is blind to it. He can't do anything but fail unless he wakes up to it. In contrast, Buttigieg is not delusional but he won't have the advantage of being a Senator and has the negative (with these guys) of being gay. I don't know how much that'll play out since it is hard to game out, but I suspect it won't be good because the GOP is full of garbage humans. Best to assume it'll be bad. I assume it'd be similar to what will happen if any Democrat wins. The Senate will be a place where Democratic agendas go to die.

On the other hand, I feel like the only way to undo any of Trump's wrongdoing and stand up to the GOP is to go hard progressive and battle from the other extreme with a Warren or Sanders. I don't know what the "right" answer is or if there even is a right answer. Barring an alien invasion, I don't really know how we recover from the deep polarization we're living under.

The only thing going for them is they have a bit of fight in them. However, I don't think it is enough fight. I don't think they need to get down in the dirt with the Republicans but they need a leader who will set out a vision that is concrete and start building the policy and political engine needed to make it a reality. I actually don't think the policies matter as much as just setting out and building on a grand strategy. And they will have all the headwinds of Republican obstructionism.

In that pursuit, the Democrats need someone who can authoritatively communicate that vision and contrast it to all the ways that the GOP has gone off-course for the nation. I don't think any of these candidates are that person. We need authority, we need charisma, we need vision. The Democrats are way behind the GOP and it is a tall order. It might be too late just because they've let the Republicans dominate the ground for so long. Also many people are invested in a 'bothsides' narrative for dysfunction. In general that is why I am very much certain that devolution is the path because Trump could still win and the Dem field is so...meh.

[LawBeefaroni]

It's why I'm so torn on the 2020 candidate. On one hand, I feel like it's going to take a moderate peacekeeper like Biden or Buttigieg to start healing the divide in this country. On the other hand, I feel like the only way to undo any of Trump's wrongdoing and stand up to the GOP is to go hard progressive and battle from the other extreme with a Warren or Sanders. I don't know what the "right" answer is or if there even is a right answer. Barring an alien invasion, I don't really know how we recover from the deep polarization we're living under.

Cart before the horse. Don't worry about January 2021, worry about November 2020. Which not-Trump candidate wins is secondary to ensuring that any not-Trump candidate wins. As much as I hate to say it, electability is the most important trait right now.

[Smoove_B]

What other administration would try this during an election year? Trump Administration Weighs Tighter Requirements for Disability Payments:

The Trump administration is working on a plan to tighten eligibility requirements for disability benefits, especially for older Americans, the latest step in a broader White House effort to shrink federal safety-net programs.

The proposal being prepared by the Social Security Administration would revise eligibility for disability benefits based on age, education and work experience, according to a draft viewed by The Wall Street Journal. Those factors determined the eligibility of about 500,000 people in 2017, according to the latest available data. More than eight million people currently receive disability payments.

...

Under current rules, workers qualify for disability if they have a severe condition that is on a list of impairments recognized by the agency, such as leukemia and chronic heart failure. If the condition isn’t on the list, the agency then considers age, education and past work experience to determine whether an applicant is able to do another type of job. Workers above the age of 50 are more likely to qualify because they are considered less able to adapt to new jobs.

The proposed rule, however, would no longer assume age seriously affects a person’s ability to adapt to simple, entry-level work. It would raise the age at which education and work experience are considered in determining eligibility to 55, from 50. The new rule would also update data on occupational skills that the agency uses to determine eligibility, based on new information from the Bureau of Labor Statistics.

[Zaxxon]

When did 'stood with you' start meaning 'literally banned you from my country?'

[Zarathud]

When Trump says "Stand With You," Watch Your Back.

Don't believe me? Ask the Kurds how relying on Trump worked out for them.

Or Trump's Personal Lawyer Michael Cohen.

[Holman]

When did 'stood with you' start meaning 'literally banned you from my country?'

Wait until the Deplorables find out he stands with Muslims.

[Kraken]

We have always been at peace with Eastasia.

[Grifman]

It's why I'm so torn on the 2020 candidate. On one hand, I feel like it's going to take a moderate peacekeeper like Biden or Buttigieg to start healing the divide in this country.

This is a bit of a fantasy. Biden is delusional about the divide existing. He thinks McConnell will get better. It will indeed be slightly better because he is a former Senator and is to be blunt white.

I don't think Biden is delusional at all. i think he is thinking ahead and making a play for moderate Republicans who are growing disenchanted with Trump and want to find an excuse to vote Democratic. Trump has no margin of error. Biden only has to peel off a small percent and he wins. I think he's smarter than you think he is.

[malchior]

I could see that...except when you actually listen to him talk about it. I guess it is possible it is all an act to peel off voters but it comes across as insanely naive. And risks pushing away progressive voters in large numbers. I encourage actually hearing him talk about it if you haven't...it comes across like he is fondly remembering the good old days.

[Kraken]

If they are to win, Democrats need to turn out in overwhelming numbers (because the deck is stacked against them in any close race, and Trump won't accept a squeaker unless he's on top). I'm skeptical that Biden can inspire that kind of turnout. On the one hand, he enjoys stronger support than anyone else among blacks, a crucial constituency. OTOH, he's very weak among young people...who famously don't vote in large numbers anyway. I'm also skeptical that the few remaining moderate Republican voters will vote for any (D) rather than just stay home. So I just don't know. I do know that if Biden's the nominee, I'll vote for him the same way I voted for Clinton: dutifully and without enthusiasm.

[YellowKing]

Even progressives are going to vote for Biden rather than stay home and chance Trump winning re-election. So I'm not super worried about the enthusiasm gap unless we get another Jill Stein third party candidate to wreck everything. Unlike Clinton, Biden is not actually despised by a large portion of the population, so I don't see as many people choosing to stay home rather than hold their nose and vote for him.

As far as young people, I'll start worrying about them when they start actually voting for candidates instead of just supporting their campaign.

[Smoove_B]

Unlike Clinton, Biden is not actually despised by a large portion of the population, so I don't see as many people choosing to stay home rather than hold their nose and vote for him.

But what's the overlap between Biden and Sanders supporters? When Biden wins the nomination are all the Bernie voters going to stomp off again or vote for Trump in protest? This election is going to be a mess and I feel it's hinged on the idea that the unmotivated middle is going to show up and vote for any (D) candidate. Trying to "convert" supporters for Biden, Sanders or Warren into votes for each other is a minefield.

[Holman]

Unlike Clinton, Biden is not actually despised by a large portion of the population, so I don't see as many people choosing to stay home rather than hold their nose and vote for him.

But what's the overlap between Biden and Sanders supporters? When Biden wins the nomination are all the Bernie voters going to stomp off again or vote for Trump in protest? This election is going to be a mess and I feel it's hinged on the idea that the unmotivated middle is going to show up and vote for any (D) candidate. Trying to "convert" supporters for Biden, Sanders or Warren into votes for each other is a minefield.

The race is still very fluid*, and voters don't seem to locked into their lanes (let alone their candidates) yet. For instance, a very significant number of Biden or Buttigieg voters see Warren or Sanders as their second choice, and vice-versa.

Together, these two polls suggest that the supporters of the more ideologically left-leaning candidates — Sanders and Warren — are more in sync than they were when we last looked in October, but of course, this has its limitations. A sizable share of Sanders and Warren supporters still put Biden as their second-choice pick despite ideological differences. Not to mention, even though Buttigieg has positioned himself as a critic of Warren, there is still a strong preference for Warren among Buttigieg’s backers — and there’s some support for Buttigieg among Warren supporters, as well. So for all the talk of “lanes” in the 2020 Democratic primary, the lines still remain somewhat blurry.

I think we get an impression from social media that every Dem voter is a rock-solid partisan who will not be moved, but that's just not the case.

And it's easy to miss that in most national polls, "undecided" is in fourth or fifth place.

(* That story is a month old, but I couldn't find anything more recent.)

[Kraken]

I read elsewhere that only 45% of Democrats are firmly committed to their first choice. So yeah, polls don't tell us a whole lot about what's going to happen once votes are cast.

[Unagi]

I'm of the mind that a lot of people that don't normally vote (and still didn't when Trump was up) may actually feel compelled to do something this time around... but who knows...
I guess I'm still holding on to the idea that there is a great majority of American's that can see with their eyes what is going on and have critical thinking skills and care enough to do something about it... We'll find out.
This is killing me, I can't begin to say how generally depressed myself and my wife have been since Trump took office... 4 more years wouldn't be the only problem... in fact the worst of it would be the confirmation of Trump's GOP and the whole mess we are in here... That would be just the end of my rope for this country.

[Paingod]

I'm of the mind that a lot of people that don't normally vote (and still didn't when Trump was up) may actually feel compelled to do something this time around... but who knows...

I think that happened last time, and I think it's going to gain momentum next time.

I spent my life not giving two shits about politics. Both sides sucked and my vote always seemed worthless. I mean, no matter who you voted for, a liar was going to get into an office somewhere and start making rules. It just didn't matter to me which liars got elected, so I never voted. I tried hard to keep my head in the sand. I figured the two sides would keep each other in check. Then the 2016 election came around and while I felt Clinton was about as charismatic as a wart on my ass, her opponent was something very much like the Excremental from Dogma. Clear. Goddman. Choice.

I plan to vote every two years now, whether I like it or not, and whether the candidates are all crap or not. I'd like to think that there are a lot more people like me out there who didn't even bother last time and have been "seeing this shit" and feel compelled to do something more than wait.

I mean - I still remember when NPR was trying to be unbiased about the President and used a lot of words like "alleged" for each outlandish claim - and now they're flat out saying things like "We have a president that lies so often, no one knows what to believe" on every segment Trump is touched on.

I think the message is getting out and a silent majority will come up with the votes needed to oust the lunatic we have in there, hopefully flip the Senate, too, and send us back for at least 4 years on the path to sanity. I have to believe it. I can't imagine what the US will turn into if that madman is given another 4 years to keep setting fires and creating divisions.

I just don't believe the Democrats will do anything to stifle the festering hatred the GOP runs on like jet fuel. They'll try to play by the rules in a game that's rigged and broken - having the power to actually fix it, but spending all their time arguing over which color the walls should be instead of actually putting up some fireproof material so the guy standing outside holding a flamethrower can't keep burning the place down when they open the door for him in a few more years...

... but I'll still vote for them.

/ramble off

[Grifman]

I could see that...except when you actually listen to him talk about it. I guess it is possible it is all an act to peel off voters but it comes across as insanely naive. And risks pushing away progressive voters in large numbers. I encourage actually hearing him talk about it if you haven't...it comes across like he is fondly remembering the good old days.

He's not going to push away progressive voters - they are going to vote for just about anyone other than Trump unless they are totally stupid. And even if he is naive and wrong, what difference will it make in the end.? He'll find out quickly enough if he can work with McConnell or not. Meanwhile, IMO, he's maybe the only Democratic candidate (maybe Mayor Pete?) who can appeal to just enough of the Republicans on the fringe that he can pull away support from Trump to make a difference.