The Former Trump Presidency Thread

[Pyperkub]

While I didn't agree with Bolton's policies, he did have actual experience, which is much more than most Trump appointees have. It's not surprising that at some point that experience would conflict with Trump doing whatever the hell he wanted to do with no regard to the repercussions.

Yeah, the question of the devil you know here means the alternative could be much worse...

[Isgrimnur]

Independent

Donald Trump slammed ABC and Washington Post as “two very bad and dangerous media outlets” after they released a joint-poll showing the president’s approval rating in decline and growing fears of an economic recession.
...
The latest poll released by the two media outlets showed a six-point drop from the president’s record-high approval rating of 44 per cent — the highest he has achieved since taking office in 2016. The numbers have been historically low for a modern president, albeit remarkably consistent, usually holding somewhere steady in the high 30s or low 40s.

Mr Trump's approval rating has fallen somewhat amid a trade war the president has ignited with China and a summer of controversies involving world leaders and US officials staying at his private properties and exclusive resorts. The president also sparked swift backlash on Capitol Hill when he suggested hosting next year's G7 summit at his golf club in Florida.
...
A recent survey conducted by the National Association for Business Economics showed 74 per cent of US busienss (sic) economists were “sufficiently concerned” about the president’s economic policies contributing to an oncoming recession by 2021.

[Kraken]

I guess 35% of Americans approve of stigginit to the libruls, no matter what. The other 3% got tax cuts. If you polled Bostonians, you'd get 3% approval, 62% disapproval, and 35% LOL wut?

[Daehawk]

Should be a law that for president you need at least a master degree in political science.

[Kraken]

Here's what I was fumbling at in my last post about Bolton, courtesy of NYT:

Mr. Trump is not the first president to think he could manage the country’s foreign policy by himself. During World War II, Franklin Delano Roosevelt micromanaged the war effort from the Oval Office with just a handful of aides and through personal communications with counterparts like Winston Churchill. Roosevelt, who called himself a “juggler” who was “perfectly willing to mislead and tell untruths it if helps win the war,” liked to keep his options open and just about everyone else — military leaders, diplomats, Congress, even Vice President Harry Truman — in the dark.

Roosevelt’s juggling maddened those in Washington left out of the loop: The stakes were too high and the decisions too complex for any one person. In the years after his death, Congress, the military brass and some of Roosevelt’s successors created the National Security Council, and the national security adviser position, to get everyone in Washington talking together about the hardest issues. The result was not perfect order, but at least a regular order, a reliable framework for American foreign policy from one administration to another.
...
Mr. Bolton’s singular achievement was to dismantle a foreign-policymaking structure that had until then kept the president from running foreign policy by the seat of his pants. Mr. Bolton persuaded Mr. Trump he didn’t need the National Security Council to make decisions; it is no surprise that the president eventually felt confident deciding he did not need a national security adviser, either. Whether Mr. Trump names a replacement for Mr. Bolton does not matter: No one is going to convince the president he needs a system now, let alone the one that existed for 70 years.

[hepcat]

Tucker Carlson is praising Trump for firing Bolton today because, and I’m not making this up, Bolton was “fundamentally a man of the left”.

You can’t make this shit up, people. State run media gonna state.

[pr0ner]

Tucker Carlson is praising Trump for firing Bolton today because, and I’m not making this us, Bolton was “fundamentally a man of the left”.

You can’t make this shit up, people. State run media gonna state.

LOLWUT.

[malchior]

Tucker Carlson is praising Trump for firing Bolton today because, and I’m not making this us, Bolton was “fundamentally a man of the left”.

You can’t make this shit up, people. State run media gonna state.

Bolton upon hearing this just kicked his cat like the network exec in Scrooged.

[YellowKing]

Wow. I'm sitting here trying to perform the mental exercise necessary to come up with some semblance of that conclusion and I'm just at a loss.

[hepcat]

Apparently the idiot tried to use tweets and quotes from dems who were lamenting the instability in this administration that is on display every time the Mangerine fires another staff member, as proof that dems supported Bolton. It's completely and utterly ridiculous. Carlson (and the Fox opinion division) is essentially Tokyo Rose at this point.

[$iljanus]

Tucker Carlson is praising Trump for firing Bolton today because, and I’m not making this up, Bolton was “fundamentally a man of the left”.

You can’t make this shit up, people. State run media gonna state.

Well, once you're caught listening to Fresh Air on NPR in your office you're branded for life...

[Jaymann]

Wow. I'm sitting here trying to perform the mental exercise necessary to come up with some semblance of that conclusion and I'm just at a loss.

He hoarded his Sharpie pens.

[wonderpug]

Recently discovered that our fearless leader himself is coming to my town for a rally next week on Monday. Really not looking forward to the local Trump base getting all fired up.

New Mexico overall voted 48.2% Clinton and 40.0% Trump, but the main three counties near the rally location voted 54% Clinton and 33% Trump. I'd so very much love to see them have a dismal turnout, but I don't want to get my hopes up too much. The venue seats about 7,000 depending on how they arrange the stage.

[Smoove_B]

You find that even if the locals don't support him, deplorables will travel. That's how I ultimately found out about a new of my NJ neighbors - they were proud to share they drove into PA to visit dear leader during a rally last year.

[Smoove_B]

Imagine if guns used flavorings?

President Donald Trump said Wednesday his administration will propose banning thousands of flavors used in e-cigarettes to combat a recent surge in underage vaping .

The Food and Drug Administration will develop guidelines to remove from the market all e-cigarette flavors except tobacco, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters during an Oval Office appearance with the president, first lady Melania Trump and the acting FDA commissioner, Ned Sharpless.

[Isgrimnur]

Are bump stocks a flavoring?

[wonderpug]

You find that even if the locals don't support him, deplorables will travel. That's how I ultimately found out about a new of my NJ neighbors - they were proud to share they drove into PA to visit dear leader during a rally last year.

Super. I live close enough to the convention center that a riot on the march would be too close for comfort. "Don't overreact," you might say, "what are the odds of a riot?" Pretty decent, unfortunately, given that a riot did break out in Trump's 2016 campaign rally in a different convention center in downtown Albuquerque.

[Holman]

Tucker Carlson is praising Trump for firing Bolton today because, and I’m not making this up, Bolton was “fundamentally a man of the left”.

You can’t make this shit up, people. State run media gonna state.

During Don Jr’s administration, it will be regrettably necessary to admit that his father was too soft on dissent and too willing to let critics go unjailed.

[Isgrimnur]

NY Times

he White House was directly involved in pressing a federal scientific agency to repudiate the weather forecasters who contradicted President Trump’s claim that Hurricane Dorian would probably strike Alabama, according to several people familiar with the events.

Mick Mulvaney, the acting White House chief of staff, told Wilbur Ross, the commerce secretary, to have the National Oceanic and Atmospheric Administration publicly disavow the forecasters’ position that Alabama was not at risk. NOAA, which is part of the Commerce Department, issued an unsigned statement last Friday in response, saying that the Birmingham, Ala., office was wrong to dispute the president’s warning.

In pressing NOAA’s acting administrator to take action, Mr. Ross warned that top employees at the agency could be fired if the situation was not addressed, The New York Times previously reported. Mr. Ross’s spokesman has denied that he threatened to fire anyone, and a senior administration official on Wednesday said Mr. Mulvaney did not tell the commerce secretary to make such a threat.
...
The Commerce Department’s inspector general is investigating how that statement came to be issued, saying it could call into question scientific independence.

The House Committee on Science, Space and Technology, which is controlled by Democrats, announced on Wednesday that it too has opened an investigation into Mr. Ross’s actions.

[Enough]

Imagine if guns used flavorings?

President Donald Trump said Wednesday his administration will propose banning thousands of flavors used in e-cigarettes to combat a recent surge in underage vaping .

The Food and Drug Administration will develop guidelines to remove from the market all e-cigarette flavors except tobacco, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters during an Oval Office appearance with the president, first lady Melania Trump and the acting FDA commissioner, Ned Sharpless.

What is the logic of still allowing tobacco flavors?

[Zarathud]

Tucker Carlson is STILL Hurting America.

[Smoove_B]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

[Enough]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

That would seem to sort of miss the protecting people from unsafe/untested flavors bit, no?

[TheMix]

Tucker Carlson is STILL Hurting America.

Heh. I go back every so often to watch that clip.

[LawBeefaroni]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

That would seem to sort of miss the protecting people from unsafe/untested flavors bit, no?

Is any of this even possible or is this more bluster to get headlines?

[Enough]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

That would seem to sort of miss the protecting people from unsafe/untested flavors bit, no?

Is any of this even possible or is this more bluster to get headlines?

IIRC the MI ban also allows for tobacco flavors.

[Jeff V]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

Don't tell me you never tried "cotton candy" flavoring!

[Enough]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

Don't tell me you never tried "cotton candy" flavoring!

You haven't lived until you have tried black market cotton candy vaping. I mean seriously, this is pretty ridiculous way to respond to vitamin E showing up in black market/counterfeit vapes and it seems we don't even know yet that is the sole cause. So blindly acting to do something, anything, is better I guess than knowing wtf is going on before we act.

[Isgrimnur]

vitamin E showing up

vitamin E acetate

[$iljanus]

Imagine if guns used flavorings?

President Donald Trump said Wednesday his administration will propose banning thousands of flavors used in e-cigarettes to combat a recent surge in underage vaping .

The Food and Drug Administration will develop guidelines to remove from the market all e-cigarette flavors except tobacco, Health and Human Services Secretary Alex Azar told reporters during an Oval Office appearance with the president, first lady Melania Trump and the acting FDA commissioner, Ned Sharpless.

What is the logic of still allowing tobacco flavors?

Well, duh. How else are you going to get the next generation hooked?

[LawBeefaroni]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

Don't tell me you never tried "cotton candy" flavoring!

You haven't lived until you have tried black market cotton candy vaping. I mean seriously, this is pretty ridiculous way to respond to vitamin E showing up in black market/counterfeit vapes and it seems we don't even know yet that is the sole cause. So blindly acting to do something, anything, is better I guess than knowing wtf is going on before we act.

No one has patience for actual science or effective solutions. Something has to be done and it has to be done now! Emotions are the most important thing in the universe, let them rule as they should.

[Isgrimnur]

No one has patience for actual science or effective solutions. Something has to be done and it has to be done now! Emotions are the most important thing in the universe, let them rule as they should.

[msteelers]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

Don't tell me you never tried "cotton candy" flavoring!

You haven't lived until you have tried black market cotton candy vaping. I mean seriously, this is pretty ridiculous way to respond to vitamin E showing up in black market/counterfeit vapes and it seems we don't even know yet that is the sole cause. So blindly acting to do something, anything, is better I guess than knowing wtf is going on before we act.

Not to support Trump, but banning the flavors is probably a good thing anyway even if it doesn't directly address the issue. Youth tobacco use has skyrocketed in just a few short years. Every year I interview a doctor who runs our area's anti-smoking program designed to keep kids from ever starting. According to what he's told me, all the gains they made getting teens to never start smoking were essentially wiped out in five years, maybe less. Our conversations over the years have essentially gone from "there's this new thing called vaping that's kind of troublesome, we're keeping out eye on it" to "it's a growing concern and about half of students either use or know what it is" to "a lot of kids are doing it and everyone else sees it everywhere they go." Teachers have told me it's a huge issue in the schools. One local high school reportedly took the mirrors out of the bathrooms because kids were hiding their vape pens between the mirror and the wall. I find that one hard to believe, but multiple teachers tell me it's true.

The kids aren't smoking tobacco flavors. They are into the fruit flavors. Mango is the big one here. And yes, kids are getting sick from it. There was a big deal here when three kids all got sick within hours of each other while at school.

If you get rid of those fruit flavors, then the amount of people actually using these products are going to go way down. That's a good thing.

[malchior]

I cant help but contrast drastic knee jerk action on vape flavors to the far worse plague of gun violence.

[Enough]

I cant help but contrast drastic knee jerk action on vape flavors to the far worse plague of gun violence.

Signed. In god we trust, all others bring data.

[Daehawk]

Why outright ban the product instead of whatever the ingredient is thats the problem? Unless its the same as the flavor.

[Enough]

Because only addicted adults would smoke yucko tobacco flavoring?

Don't tell me you never tried "cotton candy" flavoring!

You haven't lived until you have tried black market cotton candy vaping. I mean seriously, this is pretty ridiculous way to respond to vitamin E showing up in black market/counterfeit vapes and it seems we don't even know yet that is the sole cause. So blindly acting to do something, anything, is better I guess than knowing wtf is going on before we act.

Not to support Trump, but banning the flavors is probably a good thing anyway even if it doesn't directly address the issue. Youth tobacco use has skyrocketed in just a few short years. Every year I interview a doctor who runs our area's anti-smoking program designed to keep kids from ever starting. According to what he's told me, all the gains they made getting teens to never start smoking were essentially wiped out in five years, maybe less. Our conversations over the years have essentially gone from "there's this new thing called vaping that's kind of troublesome, we're keeping out eye on it" to "it's a growing concern and about half of students either use or know what it is" to "a lot of kids are doing it and everyone else sees it everywhere they go." Teachers have told me it's a huge issue in the schools. One local high school reportedly took the mirrors out of the bathrooms because kids were hiding their vape pens between the mirror and the wall. I find that one hard to believe, but multiple teachers tell me it's true.

The kids aren't smoking tobacco flavors. They are into the fruit flavors. Mango is the big one here. And yes, kids are getting sick from it. There was a big deal here when three kids all got sick within hours of each other while at school.

If you get rid of those fruit flavors, then the amount of people actually using these products are going to go way down. That's a good thing.

I get the public health argument in terms of controlling it. But I also get that buying the raw ingredients to make it will still be easy after this: buy nicotine, get the carrier, buy fda approved flavor, mix and bingo. Unfortunately, I fear that this will lead to even more cases of really deadly instant reactions like we are seeing now from things like vitamin E acetate (hat tip to isi) and other substances that should never be vaped. We will also be creating an entirely new black market while simultaneously shutting down a multitude of mom and pop small businesses across the country (multi billion dollar industry, but Jul was already killing parts of it off on their own). So... if we have the data to show that it's as bad as the teachers indicate (we still don't know the long-term damage of vaping, though we are starting to get glimmers that the harms are significantly less than combustibles); and if we find that banning flavors will actually effectively cull new nicotine users-- we need to weigh the potential benefits to potential harms like economic damage, increased narco crime from the new black market and increased acute deaths from bad black market batches. It may well be that on balance we can accept those nasty harms if we have the case to back it up, but make no mistake this is a huge change that will have real economic, health and crime impacts and many of them will be unavoidably bad so let's hope the good outweighs.

[Daehawk]

Like opioids. Make it hell for people that need them to get them and they go to the street and die from crap.

[Holman]

"Mom, I wanna Vape!!"

This makes "Just Say No" sound like serious street-level knowledge from the lead singer in your cool older brother's favorite punk band.

[Daehawk]

And many people believed him.