Re: Too Soon To Start Thinking About 2020? No, it's 2020!
Posted: Sat Jul 04, 2020 11:17 pm
Good luck getting on ballots.
That is not dead which can eternal lie, and with strange aeons bring us some web forums whereupon we can gather
http://octopusoverlords.com/forum/
He woke up one day and needed more attention.
Youth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
While I doubt it will ultimately come to anything, this seems like the far more likely explanation. It’s 2020 though, so I’m not ruling anything out.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
Here's a poll of West from a couple of years ago. His favorability then among whites (24%) was higher than than among non-white voters (20%) and much higher among Republicans (35%) and Conservatives (32%) than Democrats (12%) and Liberals (13%)Remus West wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:36 amYouth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
Well...a distant 138th option. Right behind the write in options for Al Bundy, the ghost of David Bowie and an artichoke that vaguely looks like Ted Danson.Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sat Jul 04, 2020 9:32 pm Just in case you weren’t thrilled with Trump or Biden, you now have a third option:
Spoiler:
Hopefully that poll holds true today.Defiant wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:50 amHere's a poll of West from a couple of years ago. His favorability then among whites (24%) was higher than than among non-white voters (20%) and much higher among Republicans (35%) and Conservatives (32%) than Democrats (12%) and Liberals (13%)Remus West wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 11:36 amYouth? How about the number of Black votes he will garner. Or more likely suppress when he can not get on the ballot and they stay home enraged they can not vote for him?Ralph-Wiggum wrote: ↑Sun Jul 05, 2020 9:11 am Or, if one is more conspiracy minded, one might think that Kanye is running to help his bestie Trump by drawing away youth support from Biden.
The piece seems to be really about sleeping with the devil and the question is whether you were a demon all along or if you woke up that way after selling your soul.They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship.
Yeah, it's probably less about stockholm syndrome and more about self-interested rationalization, I suppose.LordMortis wrote: ↑Wed Jul 08, 2020 9:31 am I was going to say Stockholm syndrome my ass but the article quickly stated:
The piece seems to be really about sleeping with the devil and the question is whether you were a demon all along or if you woke up that way after selling your soul.They all may not love the president, but most share his loathing for his enemies on the left, in the media, and the apostate Never Trump Republicans with a passion that engenders an alliance with the president, if not a kinship.
And this is example of why there is no coming back for the GOP. A new party needs to rise to keep the Democrats in check and the existing GOP needs to be ostracized, ignored, shut down completely, lock the doors. If there is no discussion, no room for dissension in your ranks, then you need to be disband.“There’s no coming back for these Lincoln Project motherfuckers, it doesn’t matter what next. They are madder at those people than [at] Trump for sure”
Letting the virus run crazy through the state probably wasn't the best political move. I'm waiting for the pivot where he starts ripping the Florida Gov apart. Should be in about 2-3 weeks when the bodies start piling up.El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:55 pm
I don't know how many people were mistaking OAN for anything other than a propaganda network, but still...they've apparently been commissioning polls and then releasing only those that are good for Trump.
Though in that context, if you're doing that and the best you're getting is stuff like AZ+4....that's not great.
Also - just one poll, but Biden up 10 in FL (a non-OAN commissioned poll) is pretty staggering.
I have a hard time buying Biden +10 here. Granted, it feels like I'm in prime Trump country. Technically my county is solidly liberal, but I only see strong support for Trump, and rarely if ever do I see large organized pushes against him. We've been going on walks through our neighborhood in the evenings, and there are a ton of Trump 2020 flags out and about.El Guapo wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 1:55 pm
I don't know how many people were mistaking OAN for anything other than a propaganda network, but still...they've apparently been commissioning polls and then releasing only those that are good for Trump.
Though in that context, if you're doing that and the best you're getting is stuff like AZ+4....that's not great.
Also - just one poll, but Biden up 10 in FL (a non-OAN commissioned poll) is pretty staggering.
The true state of the race right now is very probably not Biden +10 in FL. It's one poll, and there's natural fluctuation / margin of error. However, seeing polls like that gives one confidence that Biden has a material lead in FL right now (as, you are very very unlikely to see Biden +10 in a serious poll if the actual state of the race is Trump +5, say).msteelers wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:00 pm have a hard time buying Biden +10 here. Granted, it feels like I'm in prime Trump country. Technically my county is solidly liberal, but I only see strong support for Trump, and rarely if ever do I see large organized pushes against him. We've been going on walks through our neighborhood in the evenings, and there are a ton of Trump 2020 flags out and about.
I'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
+1Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pmI'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
Let's see who his running mate is. Odds are high that she will become the first female POTUS, either by succeeding Biden if he becomes dead or incapacitated, or by becoming the anointed nominee after he finishes his term. His ego is secure enough to choose a partner who outshines him, and maybe I'll be able to get behind her. It won't be Warren, but she's the kind of choice that would draw me in.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
I said in the 'random thread' - Jeff Sessions is seriously the weakest man I've ever seen at that station of life. What a feeble last year in politics that man had. Pretty sure he looked like a loser to everyone.
This is why Biden is arguably the perfect candidate for this election. He's fine - he's got the right credentials, he's reasonably smart, he's a nice guy. Because of all that, he's really hard to demonize. Not a ton of people are super excited about being president, but no one's scared of him being president - he's not someone you can point to and say, "hey, whatever you think about me, imagine how awful it would be if *that guy* were president!"Holman wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:47 pm+1Unagi wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:10 pmI'm super passionate about putting someone in place that wants to lead in a kind manner and is OK with listening to other people about things he isn't an expert at. That alone, I am SUPER passionate about, and I think Biden will fit that quite nicely.coopasonic wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 4:07 pm I feel like nobody is passionate about Biden. Hell not even Biden is. Biden is 100% NOT Trump and I'm on board at that. I can't imagine any way in which he could be a worse president.
Biden-the-candidate doesn't excite me like Obama did, but replacing Trump with a solidly competent and positive administration is the most thrilling thing I can imagine happening right now.
We need to save the country. This is how we do it.
Biden isn't going to do it and I sincerely doubt anyone would be able to. Pretty sure now not even an alien invasion will unite the country.YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country
You're off by 36yrs(at least; arguably the Civil rights act and resulting political flip of the Southern Democratic base). Barr was involved in Iran contra and the pardons. Mconnel has been in the senate for decades. Rove, the architect of modern republicanism is from that Era. Cheney was around through Bush elder and Willy Horton. Escalating the war on drugs and the outright lies to do it is perrenial conservative boogeyman politics. The drive to push false law and order narratives and pull the center right (yes clinton/biden) but soft on crime is considered a weakness of the left. The rise of Limbaugh, Fox, and eventually the alt right. Grover Norquist, Newt Gingrich, the politicizing of President's personal lives in the nineties, voter suppression, the bullshit hypocrisy of the religious moral majority bathed in by conservative ideologues. The deregulation worship drumbeat that leads to things like Flint, and 2007. The warm blanket of confederate adulation.YellowKing wrote:And as much as people don't want to hear it, I truly believe someone who has some sort of working relationship with the other side of the aisle is an asset.
We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country by digging in our heels and refusing to work with each other. Biden is well-liked enough on both sides of the aisle to make some headway there.
Is it a bitter pill to swallow to have to work with the same people that have fucked this country sideways for the past 4 years? Absolutely. But this is what we have to work with, and I think the path we're on currently - the path Trump chose, in which anyone who disagrees with us is our enemy - is the path that is going to lead this country to absolute ruin.
I wish this was right but it almost certainly won't be. There is no healing this partisan divide because no one cares about the actual cause. The *ongoing looting* of this nation by a small cadre of ultra wealthy people who have created a stable oligarchy with wealth the likes the world has never seen before. They've turned this economic power into political influence that is in a feedback loop. They get more wealth and more political power which delivers more wealth and so on. The Republicans were just much, much better at weaponizing the impact of this economic class warfare and turning it into political control. With one hand they aligned their fiscal policy with the interests of the ultra wealthy and have made inequality worse for decades. Meanwhile their propaganda functions led people to ignore the other hand stealing away their future.YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm And as much as people don't want to hear it, I truly believe someone who has some sort of working relationship with the other side of the aisle is an asset.
We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country by digging in our heels and refusing to work with each other. Biden is well-liked enough on both sides of the aisle to make some headway there.
Is it a bitter pill to swallow to have to work with the same people that have fucked this country sideways for the past 4 years? Absolutely. But this is what we have to work with, and I think the path we're on currently - the path Trump chose, in which anyone who disagrees with us is our enemy - is the path that is going to lead this country to absolute ruin.
I tend to agree, with the slight caveat that if Biden winds up winning in a landslide I think there might be some period of reexamination in the GOP. Though in that scenario the Democrats probably retook the Senate so it's less important, at least in the short term.Alefroth wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 11:41 pmBiden isn't going to do it and I sincerely doubt anyone would be able to. Pretty sure now not even an alien invasion will unite the country.YellowKing wrote: ↑Tue Jul 14, 2020 10:35 pm We are never going to heal the partisan divide in this country
I'll gladly eat my hat if even a handful of people from the other side of the aisle work with Biden.
...but that just reads to me like "Democracy doesn't matter as long as it's Red vs. Blue and not Black vs. White"Skinypupy wrote: ↑Wed Jul 01, 2020 6:46 pmSo, voter suppression measures are OK if they're put in place due to political affiliation? Because that could change if the other party wins an election (or something)? I don't understand that at all.Judge Frank Easterbrook wrote that the voting restrictions were acceptable because Republicans who controlled the legislature were not discriminating against voters based on race, but based on their political affiliation. He relied on a 2019 US supreme court ruling concluding that partisan manipulation of electoral districts was acceptable.
“The changes were made because of politics,” he wrote. “This record does not support a conclusion that the legislators who voted for the contested statutes cared about race; they cared about voters’ political preferences.” He added that Democratic lawmakers could retake control of the legislature and change the laws they objected to in the future.