Political Randomness

[ImLawBoy]

The recent firing of Shane Gillis from SNL almost immediately after he was hired, coupled with a few other high profile take downs (or in some cases, attempted take downs) of comedians, writers and just your average person on the street, is (in my opinion) one of the greatest cultural threats we've seen in a while - "cancel culture", is the term, I believe.

I don't find Gillis particularly funny, but I sure as hell wouldn't want someone going back and putting the works of true comic geniuses like Mel Brooks or George Carlin under the same puritanical lens with the sole intent of destroying their lives. I'm fine with calling folks out on their past behavior, but let's not hang people in the square.

Sigh, I guess the concept of the commensurate response died the moment social media was invented.

How bad were Shane Gillis's comments?

Sounded pretty bad from what I read. Racial slurs directed at Asians (particularly Chinese) were the worst, but also some lesser crimes. And it's not like these were in his distant past - it sounded like he was pretty up front about this (which makes one question SNL's vetting process).

[edit]Maybe the best analogy is Barstool Sports level. If you tolerate Barstool, you probably thought this was fine.[/edit]

[hepcat]

They were juvenile comments from a comedian trying to be funny on a podcast. They were wrong, and he apologized for them the moment someone pointed out they sounded less like satire and more like hate speech. But the guy's one big shot at a successful career in the comedy world, on a show that used to feature John Belushi dressed as a Japanese samurai and yelling in a mock accent, as well as a show that repeatedly joked about Garrett Morris being the "token black" on the show, is now gone. He'll probably have to struggle to survive this. I'm sure he'll eventually get back on his feet, but it's going to be hard to book appearances for the guy for quite some time, I imagine.

[edit]Maybe the best analogy is Barstool Sports level. If you tolerate Barstool, you probably thought this was fine.[/edit]

There's a huge difference between not wanting someone's life destroyed for saying something stupid (and I've only heard about 2 or 3 instances of quick clips, nothing to show a long standing racist bent), and thinking his actions were fine. I shudder to think what would happen if some folks were shown some of the comedies we watched as teenagers. Should we be censoring the works of someone like Mel Brooks? Destroying their lives?

In any case, he's definitely not the only one that's been under the blade of the public executioner for being stupid or insensitive. Mob mentality is an ugly thing when it wants blood. It will kill whatever is in its path at times. No matter the crime.

p.s. I also hated what happened to Roseanne Barr. I disagree with almost everything she says, but she was publicly executed for what amounted to a really stupid joke.

[ImLawBoy]

There's a huge difference between not wanting someone's life destroyed for saying something stupid (and I've only heard about 2 or 3 instances of quick clips, nothing to show a long standing racist bent), and thinking his actions were fine. I shudder to think what would happen if some folks were shown some of the comedies we watched as teenagers. Should we be censoring the works of someone like Mel Brooks? Destroying their lives?

You can't reasonably compare comedy in the '70s and '80s to comedy today. A lot of the stuff that was done in the '70s and '80s wouldn't be acceptable today. If Gillis made his jokes in the '70s or '80s, there'd be something to that argument. He made those comments in the late 2010s, though. Unless he just awoke from a coma and thought that jokes from the '70s and '80s were all still acceptable today, I have little sympathy for him. He knowingly tried to use "edgy" humor to raise his profile. He knowingly recorded the material and put it on the internet. He took a calculated risk that it would help to bring him fame and notoriety. It worked enough to get him the SNL gig, but it eventually backfired on him.

In any case, he's definitely not the only one that's been under the blade of the public executioner for being stupid or insensitive. Mob mentality is an ugly thing when it wants blood. It will kill whatever is in its path at times. No matter the crime.

I don't necessarily disagree that this happens too much, but I don't think Gillis is the poster boy for mistreatment.

[hepcat]

Then let's set aside Gillis. I brought him up because I feel he is a recent example of the mob justice I mention, but he's most definitely NOT the only recipient.

And I mentioned older comedies because I fear they'll be the next targets. They're still on video streaming services, they're still in home video collections, they're not gone from the public consciousness. They're very much alive and revered in many cases. But unless those who form these mobs and go off to punish anyone they feel is worthy of death by public shaming are just hypocrites who then go home and laugh at their copy of Animal House while holding their thumb over the send button on their latest tirade against whatever celebrity didn't use the right word in an acceptance speech somewhere, then they could very well be next.

[ImLawBoy]

I think there's enough understanding of context that I'm not as concerned as you are. I can still watch and enjoy Animal House, Revenge of the Nerds, and Sixteen Candles today, but I also acknowledge that there are cringeworthy parts to each of those movies that would not be acceptable to today's sensibilities. Honestly, that's OK. I don't think we're going to see some mass desire to cleanse the past of inappropriate comedy, but it's OK to acknowledge that there were clearly inappropriate elements to some of those classics.

[LawBeefaroni]

Recently watched Clue with the family and I was surprised at number of cringe worthy jokes as noted by my wife (most flew over my head I guess). The 9-year-old didn't notice anything awry. The 3-year-old, however, shouted, "She has big nackers!" We all then noticed how the cinematography was indeed kind of...letchy by today's standards.



As for Gillis, I wouldn't say he is ruined. It's a huge setback but there's kind of a brotherhood in the comedy world and what he said wasn't blacklist worthy. He still has a chance.

He took a risk and failed. Maybe the court of public opinoon was too harsh but it's 2019. It's not unexpected.

And there's always a career in politics.

[Z-Corn]

Gillis was already thought to be problematic by some in the comedy world for his racist and homophobic viewpoints.

There is at least one prominent comedy club in Philadelphia that refused to book him.

The rumor is that SNL hired him to try and appeal to a more conservative audience and didn't do a great job of vetting.

[malchior]

Gillis was already thought to be problematic by some in the comedy world for his racist and homophobic viewpoints.

There is at least one prominent comedy club in Philadelphia that refused to book him.

The rumor is that SNL hired him to try and appeal to a more conservative audience and didn't do a great job of vetting.

You really cant blame SNL here. The level of vetting required isnt possible compared to the twitteverse. They crowdsource it. Anytime anyone is named to a prominent position there is an army digging through that person's every word on every platform.

[Z-Corn]

Gillis was already thought to be problematic by some in the comedy world for his racist and homophobic viewpoints.

There is at least one prominent comedy club in Philadelphia that refused to book him.

The rumor is that SNL hired him to try and appeal to a more conservative audience and didn't do a great job of vetting.

You really cant blame SNL here. The level of vetting required isnt possible compared to the twitteverse. They crowdsource it. Anytime anyone is named to a prominent position there is an army digging through that person's every word on every platform.

I don't really care either way. I'm a firm believer that if it's funny it's funny and sometimes people just get their feelings hurt.

The jokes Gillis was making on his podcast, which was publicly available and not behind a paywall, weren't funny. He was making fun of Chinese people and how they pronounce the word "noodles". Hack, unfunny shit. They should have passed on him for that alone.

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

[malchior]

I don't really care either way. I'm a firm believer that if it's funny it's funny and sometimes people just get their feelings hurt.

The jokes Gillis was making on his podcast, which was publicly available and not behind a paywall, weren't funny. He was making fun of Chinese people and how they pronounce the word "noodles". Hack, unfunny shit. They should have passed on him for that alone.

Think about this for a second. Go back through your own life and think about a time you screwed something up. Even just once. Now have people make a career or life altering decision based on that moment. I dont think humans were meant to live to these standards.

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

Sure but he doesn't even get the chance to atone past his apology. From all accounts it wasnt so much hateful as incredibly ignorant. (And unfunny). That seems to me to be something you can bridge.

Edit: However one thing that makes this ok to me in a big picture sense is people think casual racism against asians is acceptable. It shouldn't be but I wonder if this is going too far in service of that message.

[hepcat]

Perhaps I'm being overly dramatic, but it feels like we're witnessing the death of the second chance, in some ways. It's a one strike and you're out mentality that bothers me. Before, someone could learn from their mistakes. But now? Not so much.

[LawBeefaroni]

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

Or could have been some funny shit coming out of there. We'll never know either way.


But I don't think we have lost anything either.

[Holman]

Perhaps I'm being overly dramatic, but it feels like we're witnessing the death of the second chance, in some ways. It's a one strike and you're out mentality that bothers me. Before, someone could learn from their mistakes. But now? Not so much.

When a celeb gets exposed as a racist/etc, it's never their "first chance."

Usually it's very much the opposite. Louis C.K.'s habit of masturbating in front of his female co-stars was an open secret long before he got publicly called out for it. How many objections did he ignore or dismiss before he couldn't? It's easy to multiply examples.

Plus, most of these people will be absolutely fine. They'll get new gigs even if they have to do a brief apology tour on Ellen or Oprah. That's just part of the price of fame.

The only thing that really ends a Hollywood career is severe addiction, and that's because your failed work ethic gets in the way of other people making money.

[hepcat]

In no way, shape or form was I excusing sexual harassment. Or crimes of any type whatsoever. You took it further than I originally intended. I was speaking only about people saying or doing something offensive, insensitive or just stupid, something all of us have done at one point or another in our lives, and being tried and executed for it.

[Holman]

My point wasn’t sexual harassment but that it’s never someone’s first chance, or at least not in these media cases.

The SNL guy already had a reputation for racist and phobic humor, right? He didn’t get tried and executed for an innocent slip. He got elevated to a high-visibility perch and then more people noticed the creepiness that was already his brand.

[hepcat]

Your point was buried underneath what it appeared to be an attempt to conflate the act of being stupid with real criminal activity. Although it kind of proves my point in some ways that folks on social media seem unable to see anything but punishable acts in everyone who raises their ire over something.

[Z-Corn]

I don't really care either way. I'm a firm believer that if it's funny it's funny and sometimes people just get their feelings hurt.

The jokes Gillis was making on his podcast, which was publicly available and not behind a paywall, weren't funny. He was making fun of Chinese people and how they pronounce the word "noodles". Hack, unfunny shit. They should have passed on him for that alone.

Think about this for a second. Go back through your own life and think about a time you screwed something up. Even just once. Now have people make a career or life altering decision based on that moment. I dont think humans were meant to live to these standards.

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

Sure but he doesn't even get the chance to atone past his apology. From all accounts it wasnt so much hateful as incredibly ignorant. (And unfunny). That seems to me to be something you can bridge.

Edit: However one thing that makes this ok to me in a big picture sense is people think casual racism against asians is acceptable. It shouldn't be but I wonder if this is going too far in service of that message.

I think you're still missing my point. My point is, he's not funny and should lose his job over that. I'm not trying to lump his situation in as an example of cancel culture.

I watch SNL every Sunday morning while we eat breakfast. There's enough unfunny shit I sit through every season as is.

And yes, I screw up and say dumb things all the time. Pretty much daily. And I apologize and sincerely hope my apology is accepted. I'm a firm believer in second chances!

Edit to add: Did you see his apology? It was hardly contrite. He said something along the lines of, "I'm funny enough to be on SNL and you can never take that away from me. I'm really more a MAD TV guy as it is."

Dude is just a douche bag.

[Z-Corn]

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

Or could have been some funny shit coming out of there. We'll never know either way.

This was one theory I heard on a podcast. That this was an Evil Genius move by Lorne Michaels to stir the pot and kick back and watch what happens.

[ImLawBoy]

I don't really care either way. I'm a firm believer that if it's funny it's funny and sometimes people just get their feelings hurt.

The jokes Gillis was making on his podcast, which was publicly available and not behind a paywall, weren't funny. He was making fun of Chinese people and how they pronounce the word "noodles". Hack, unfunny shit. They should have passed on him for that alone.

Think about this for a second. Go back through your own life and think about a time you screwed something up. Even just once. Now have people make a career or life altering decision based on that moment. I dont think humans were meant to live to these standards.

But this wasn't a one-time screw up. This was how he built his comedy career to the point that he got the SNL gig. Again, I don't disagree that there's a problem when social media mobs go after folks for one-time screw ups, but that's not the case with Gillis.

I think it also became a bit more problematic due to the fact that SNL also promoted Bowen Yang from writer to performer. Yang is gay and Asian. Probably would have been an uncomfortable writing room the first day on.

Sure but he doesn't even get the chance to atone past his apology. From all accounts it wasnt so much hateful as incredibly ignorant. (And unfunny). That seems to me to be something you can bridge.

You and I are reading different accounts, because I haven't read accounts indicating it was just ignorant. I think this guy knew what he was doing, and it came back to bite him. And as was elsewhere pointed out, his apology kind of sucked and didn't really merit getting much of a chance for atonement. Nonetheless, his profile is now raised considerably, which will give him the chance to publicly atone and make better decisions going forward.

[hepcat]

I liked comedian Bill Burr's comment on this whole thing with Gillis (although the bit about millenials might be too much...I think there's plenty of blame to spread around):

"Did they go back and also try and look back at good things the person might have done, or are the just looking for the bad stuff?" Burr asked, adding, "You could honestly do that to anybody. I don't get it. Millennials, you're a bunch of rats. None of them care; all they want to do is get people in trouble."

I'm not saying Gillis is a saint, or that he didn't do anything wrong. I'm just saying he deserved a chance to explain himself, and then hopefully learn from his mistakes. If he proved to be a racist dick on SNL, fire his ass then. But sometimes being put in the same room as someone who is a member of a group you've verbally denigrated can lead to that person realizing the consequences of their words, and then producing something beautiful and heartfelt. And again, if it didn't, fire his ass.

I've yet to see massive blowback on Gillis beyond the loss of the SNL gig (which, in itself, is pretty big), so perhaps the internet mobs will let this one go.

As far as being told what you can and can't say in comedy, I also tend to side with Ricky Gervais.



This does NOT pertain to Gillis, by the way. I'm not saying he was working in satire (at least as far as I know). But for those who do, holding a mirror up to our worst behavior is a fundamental tool in their bag of equipment. A show like All in the Family couldn't exist today because of the current culture, I feel. And that would be a shame as that show helped to show a generation how awful and stupid bigotry was.

[ImLawBoy]

I'm not saying Gillis is a saint, or that he didn't do anything wrong. I'm just saying he deserved a chance to explain himself, and then hopefully learn from his mistakes.

Maybe he got the chance to explain himself to the brass at NBC/SNL, and the explanation fell short.

But sometimes being put in the same room as someone who is a member of a group you've verbally denigrated can lead to that person realizing the consequences of their words, and then producing something beautiful and heartfelt. And again, if it didn't, fire his ass.

He's a grown-ass man who travels the professional comedy circuits. I doubt he hasn't had the opportunity to spend time with the people he denigrates. Plus, there's nothing stopping him from doing that now. If he's sincere, this would be the perfect opportunity for him to take those steps, perhaps by working with an unknown comedian or two who are among the groups he denigrated and would also be able to use the opportunity to raise their profiles.

[Zarathud]

I’ve seen videos of comedians talking about good comedy dodging laser beams.

Doesn’t sound like Gillis is that good, or even cares. But there’s a comedy career in being a conservative asshole even if the comedy isn’t good.

I don’t think Gillis is hurt by this in the long run. One door closes, another opens. Hard to feel sorry for the guy when he’s damn lucky to have the opportunity.

[Isgrimnur]

Pro-tip: If you don't have a clue how Twitter works, you might want to stay off Twitter.

The Hill

A high school teacher from Texas who captured headlines earlier this year after she used her Twitter account to ask President Trump to “remove the illegals” from her school has officially been fired.

According to Fox 4 News Dallas-Fort Worth, the Independent School District board in Fort Worth formally fired Georgia Clark on Tuesday by voting unanimously to uphold its decision from earlier this year to terminate her.

However, Clark is reportedly able to appeal the decision to the Texas Education Agency if she so chooses.

[Isgrimnur]

WaPo

In a petition for Supreme Court review, filed on Monday, lawyers for the young woman are asking the justices to vacate Carter’s conviction for involuntary manslaughter in the July 2014 death of Roy, who poisoned himself with carbon monoxide in a Kmart parking lot in Fairhaven, Mass., after exchanging text messages and speaking twice on the phone with Carter on that summer day. She lived about 50 miles away in Plainville, Mass.

NBC News

Michelle Carter, the young woman convicted of encouraging her boyfriend to kill himself, had her request for parole rejected by a Massachusetts state board.

"The [board] is troubled that Ms. Carter not only encouraged [Conrad Roy III] to take his own life, she actively prevented others from intervening in his suicide," the parole board wrote in its decision released Friday morning. "Ms. Carter's self-serving statements and behavior, leading up to and after his suicide, appear to be irrational and lacked sincerity."

The board added that Carter needs to address the "causative effects" that led to the offense.

"Release does not meet the legal standard," the board concluded.

Carter's lawyer said she will probably not make another parole application because she is likely to earn enough credits for good behavior to be released from the Bristol County jail in February — a few months short of her full 15-month sentence.

[LawBeefaroni]

I get that prison sucks and you'd do everything possible to shorten the stay but a parole hearing 5-6 months before release seems like a waste of resources on the state's side.

[El Guapo]

I get that prison sucks and you'd do everything possible to shorten the stay but a parole hearing 5-6 months before release seems like a waste of resources on the state's side.

I dunno - that's ~ 30% - 40% of the sentence. Seems pretty reasonable.

[LawBeefaroni]

I get that prison sucks and you'd do everything possible to shorten the stay but a parole hearing 5-6 months before release seems like a waste of resources on the state's side.

I dunno - that's ~ 30% - 40% of the sentence. Seems pretty reasonable.

Same could be said of a month before release on 3-month sentence. Granted I don't know that much about parole, maybe they do that.

[El Guapo]

I get that prison sucks and you'd do everything possible to shorten the stay but a parole hearing 5-6 months before release seems like a waste of resources on the state's side.

I dunno - that's ~ 30% - 40% of the sentence. Seems pretty reasonable.

Same could be said of a month before release on 3-month sentence. Granted I don't know that much about parole, maybe they do that.

How much resources does a hearing take? I am sure that the state is not breaking its back in terms of time or materials for this.

[LordMortis]

How does gerrymandering not have its own thread? Most of it seem to end up here, though it's spread in bits and pieces every where.




https://www.mlive.com/news/2019/09/budg ... ature.html

The spending plan approved by a House and Senate conference committee Thursday puts that funding, which falls under the umbrella of the state’s general government budget, in the legislative budget instead - and reduces total funding for the commission to $3.4 million.

Funding for the commission was tied in the ballot language to be a certain percentage of the Secretary of State’s budget. The general government spending plan reduces the Secretary of State’s general fund budget to correlate with the proposed decrease in spending for the commission.

Senate Appropriations Chair Jim Stamas, R-Midland, said after consulting with their legal team, legislators felt the legislative budget was the best place for the redistricting commission to be.

“We feel that we’re strictly following what the ballot proposal had indicated we needed to do,” he said.

Example after example after example of why I can't even vote for good member of the GOP because this is what you align with. This is what your party does at every opportunity.

They fought the ballot initiative to allow voters to pick their politicians rather than having the political majority pick their voters.
They fought the voters ability to pick their politicians rather than having the political majority pick their voters when it was on the ballot.
They fought the voters ability to pick their politicians rather than having the political majority pick their voters after it passed by the voters.
Now they are seizing control of the process that has explicitly excluded them.

[YellowKing]

What's crazy is that it's not just GOP in one state. The legislature in NC does it as well. It's systemic corruption throughout the entire party, at local, state, and federal levels. It's insane.

[El Guapo]

What's crazy is that it's not just GOP in one state. The legislature in NC does it as well. It's systemic corruption throughout the entire party, at local, state, and federal levels. It's insane.

It's because the GOP has been taken over by Randian types who are skeptical of democracy because they think it's perpetually in danger of becoming a mechanism for the takers to grab the fairly-earned wealth of the makers. So they have to tilt the electoral scales, you see, because if they don't "those people" are going to overrun the polls and steal all the wealth of the virtuous job creators, and bring down the country with it.

[ImLawBoy]

To be fair, it goes both ways. Illinois is gerrymandered to favor the Ds. Check out my Congressional district.

[LordMortis]

What's crazy is that it's not just GOP in one state. The legislature in NC does it as well. It's systemic corruption throughout the entire party, at local, state, and federal levels. It's insane.

Our fortunes are tied together. Much of what our state legislature is doing is tied to SC decisions regarding NC.

To be fair, it goes both ways. Illinois is gerrymandered to favor the Ds. Check out my Congressional district.

I can't be fair Illinois. I don't live there. I want my yard cleaned up.

I read about it New Jersey and I was shocked at the way Dems there were trying to protect themselves by allowing legislators choose their voters. I might be have a different outlook on my refusal to ever vote GOP at this point in life if I lived in NJ but that outlook wouldn't change regarding politicians picking their voters.

[GungHo]

With all the noise today it was almost completely ignored that the 72 yo President of the United States of America, who has children and grandchildren himself, openly mocked a 16 yo girl.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna10 ... ssion=true

[Isgrimnur]

WaPo

On Sept. 14, an Iowa man named Carson King went viral after holding a sign on ESPN’s “College GameDay” asking for donations on Venmo to pay for his “Busch Light Supply.” When cash unexpectedly poured in, King decided to give it to a local children’s hospital instead of buying beer, leading Venmo and Anheuser-Busch to pledge matching donations.

That’s when Des Moines Register reporter Aaron Calvin set out to profile King — and found two offensive tweets the 24-year-old had sent when he was 16.

That discovery has now sparked an acrimonious conflict, as King quickly lost his partnership with Anheuser-Busch, and the Des Moines Register scrambled to explain its decision to report on the old tweets in the first place — particularly after critics Tuesday turned up multiple offensive tweets once sent by Calvin, forcing the paper to open a new investigation into its own reporter.
...
Between 2010 and 2013, Calvin published tweets that used a racist slur for black people, made light of abusing women, used the word “gay” as a pejorative and mocked the legalization of same-sex marriage by saying he was “totally going to marry a horse.” The Register’s statement on Twitter was soon flooded with images of the reporter’s offensive comments.

By late Tuesday night, Calvin began deleting old tweets, and then locked his account early Wednesday morning after posting an apology.

Something something cast the first stone.

[El Guapo]

Then the reporter who reported on Calvin turned out to have posted offensive tweets, and then...

As an aside, I wonder if it's technically fraud to receive donations solicited for beer, and then give the money to children's hospitals.

[Daehawk]

With all the noise today it was almost completely ignored that the 72 yo President of the United States of America, who has children and grandchildren himself, openly mocked a 16 yo girl.

No no...he has dependents.

[LordMortis]

With all the noise today it was almost completely ignored that the 72 yo President of the United States of America, who has children and grandchildren himself, openly mocked a 16 yo girl.

https://www.nbcnews.com/news/amp/ncna10 ... ssion=true

By my estimation family and children mean something to Trump insofar as how much he fancies fucking them or carry his name. Ask William Trump how well he was cared for according to Fred Sr's will.

“Why do I have to repent or seek God’s forgiveness if I am not making mistakes?”

- DJT regarding William Trump 2015

Unless you mean his care for the future, in general, for his children and children's children. Their above our future.

[Daehawk]

Trump is on tv behind me while I use the PC. He's talking to someone and I hear him mention Obama. I put on some The Darkness so I cant hear the shit. That boy is still talking about Obama.

[YellowKing]

Do you think Trump would still be obsessed with Obama if he was white? Or Hillary if she was a man? I don't.