Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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El Guapo
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by El Guapo »

malchior wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 10:03 pm I think it is important to note that Trump is the biggest driving force. The very serious people like McConnell and Cheney are absolutely against the alignment because they know it is a shrinking pool of support. That however increases the danger that the GOP may have to take more extreme action to stay relevant. Whether that remains purely 'legalistic' aka gerrymandering and voter suppression seems unlikely considering what happened on 1/6.
One key problem is that I don't think McConnell has a lot of leverage in the long run against Trump and the Trumpists in terms of the realignment. McConnell's been running a strategy that's essentially oriented around getting 45%ish of voters over the long run, so that he can win (thanks to our archaic anti-democratic political structure) with just the votes of Republicans + right leaning independents, so that he can govern based on far right economic policies.

The problem is that the Trumpist base is a very large part (possibly a majority) of that 45%, and even with our political structure McConnell can't afford to lose a ton of it without endangering its viability. And while I don't think McConnell himself is particularly racist, I think he'll adopt whatever racist policies he thinks will optimize his chances of winning. So I think it's more likely that Trumpists pull McConnell in their direction than vice versa.

The one thing I wonder about is what happens if and when some Trumpists try to push GOP economic policy in a more populist direction, which would be popular among large parts of the Trumpist base but which is anathema to the core of what McConnell cares about beyond merely winning.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

McConnell sold his soul to the Turtle forever ago. He thought he could control Trump. He was wrong. Now he'll serve in Hell while still trying to be a power broker trying to make his agenda and Greene's fit together under Trump.

We can hope this will forever keep the presidency out of GOP reach but their gerrymandering may succeed in voter suppression. I am horrified by the amount of people looking the other way for the last 7+ years and insisting there is systemic problem with Democrat centric and only Democrat centric voting districts. That the likes of Cruz and Paxton can attack my state and my voting district to get my vote thrown out and to have their attack supported by forces in state who have been losing their legal battles at every level for years.

I want to believe this will drive people from what the right as become, from what the GOP is proud of. But I'm just not seeing it. I'll be glad to be so wrong and ignorant of this growing exodus.

Also I look forward to the day that I don't feel/believe/think/know I have to vote democrat no matter what to do my part to keep the objectively bad guys from destroying my nation and state. Heck, I look forward to understanding an roadmap to that day.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

The only silver lining is that Cruz, DeSantis, et. al. will be held at bay for at least another 4 years, maybe 8.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

Another possibly positive sign is that Trump won the CPAC straw poll with only 55%.

Obviously his winning is terrible, but that's 55% of the hardest of hard-core supporters. We're only a month out, and it might be a sign that Trump's star is fading more quickly than expected.

The next nominee will be just as bad, of course, but it might point to (welcome) future trouble for the party, as Trump surely won't bow out gracefully.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by El Guapo »

Jaymann wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 5:18 pm The only silver lining is that Cruz, DeSantis, et. al. will be held at bay for at least another 4 years, maybe 8.
If you're DeSantis, aren't you making a hard pitch to Trump's people along the lines of "Give me your endorsement and blessing to run for President, and you can use your closeness to me to grift as much as you want, I'll protect you, and you don't have to do any of the actual work of campaigning or being president"?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:01 pm Another possibly positive sign is that Trump won the CPAC straw poll with only 55%.

Obviously his winning is terrible, but that's 55% of the hardest of hard-core supporters. We're only a month out, and it might be a sign that Trump's star is fading more quickly than expected.

The next nominee will be just as bad, of course, but it might point to (welcome) future trouble for the party, as Trump surely won't bow out gracefully.
It was held in Florida and number 2 was DeSantis. Also, Trump hadn't spoken yet so I don't put too much stock in that number.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kraken »

malchior wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 1:25 am
Holman wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 7:01 pm Another possibly positive sign is that Trump won the CPAC straw poll with only 55%.

Obviously his winning is terrible, but that's 55% of the hardest of hard-core supporters. We're only a month out, and it might be a sign that Trump's star is fading more quickly than expected.

The next nominee will be just as bad, of course, but it might point to (welcome) future trouble for the party, as Trump surely won't bow out gracefully.
It was held in Florida and number 2 was DeSantis. Also, Trump hadn't spoken yet so I don't put too much stock in that number.
Do you think that when trump yells "all aboard!" anybody who wasn't already on the train buys a ticket?

I liked Beau's take tonight.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by naednek »

So ya, I want his shirt. I was thinking of putting it on my amazon christmas list and see if my trump loving family would buy it :P

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

naednek wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 2:37 pm So ya, I want his shirt. I was thinking of putting it on my amazon christmas list and see if my trump loving family would buy it :P

LOL I read that as a Red Hot, which would still be relevant.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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But it's a nice red hat. Have you tried on the red hat? Felt it? Tasted it? Slept with it? Used it to pick up chicks at the local dairy Queen?
It's a great red hat. The red hat will give you stock tips. It will wash your car. It pulls dandelions from your yard.
The red hat will walk your dogs. Not Lady Gaga's dogs. That's dangerous. Even the red hat isn't that stupid.

The red hat will be your friend until the end. The red hat will sit upon your head as they lower you into the ground.
The red hat will then resurrect you. The red hat will dig the way out of your grave and hotwire the nearest car so you and the red hat can drive off into the sunset.

The red hat is life.
The. Red. Hat.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Remus West »

stimpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:10 pm But it's a nice red hat. Have you tried on the red hat? Felt it? Tasted it? Slept with it? Used it to pick up chicks at the local dairy Queen?
It's a great red hat. The red hat will give you stock tips. It will wash your car. It pulls dandelions from your yard.
The red hat will walk your dogs. Not Lady Gaga's dogs. That's dangerous. Even the red hat isn't that stupid.

The red hat will be your friend until the end. The red hat will sit upon your head as they lower you into the ground.
The red hat will then resurrect you. The red hat will dig the way out of your grave and hotwire the nearest car so you and the red hat can drive off into the sunset.

The red hat is life.
The. Red. Hat.
Frighteningly I can not be 100% certain you did not lift that from some maga website. :P :(
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by stimpy »

Remus West wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 4:46 pm
stimpy wrote: Tue Mar 02, 2021 3:10 pm But it's a nice red hat. Have you tried on the red hat? Felt it? Tasted it? Slept with it? Used it to pick up chicks at the local dairy Queen?
It's a great red hat. The red hat will give you stock tips. It will wash your car. It pulls dandelions from your yard.
The red hat will walk your dogs. Not Lady Gaga's dogs. That's dangerous. Even the red hat isn't that stupid.

The red hat will be your friend until the end. The red hat will sit upon your head as they lower you into the ground.
The red hat will then resurrect you. The red hat will dig the way out of your grave and hotwire the nearest car so you and the red hat can drive off into the sunset.

The red hat is life.
The. Red. Hat.
Frighteningly I can not be 100% certain you did not lift that from some maga website. :P :(
Nah.....slow day at work.....lol
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?cer

Post by Pyperkub »

Remus West wrote:
hepcat wrote: Sat Feb 27, 2021 8:00 pmA true, hard core white supremacist wouldn’t deny it. They’d be proud of it.
You keep saying that but it is only true for a small portion of them. Subtle racists are happy to deny in public and live their hate in private and through their policy.
I don’t think there’s any need to elevate the GOP as a whole to comic book villain status sending out secret signals that it’s time to kill all the minorities That kind of exaggeration doesn’t help. And it’s the kind of conspiracy theory we rail against with Trump and his followers.
I don't think they are to the level of actively killing anyone right now. They are certainly courting those who are though. They are also not even slightly disturbed when it happens.
Charlottesville, Pittsburgh, Georgia and others seem to suggest differently.

Trump said on national TV "Proud Boys stand back and stand by."
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Missouri Senator Blunt announces he isn't running in 2021. That'll open up the 4th leadership spot in the GOP side of the Senate. That is a total of 5 GOP Senators announcing retirement up to today.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by El Guapo »

Mitch McConnell Backs Bill to Ensure He's Not Replaced by Democrat If He Leaves Office Early.

Not sure if McConnell's actively considering leaving early, or whether he's just aware that he's 78 and wants to err on the side of caution in case he rolls a 1 on the relevant actuarial tables.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Pathetic. Guess Vermont should do the same for the barely alive Leahy. That said, we're getting into treacherous territory with the balance of power gamesmanship.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

malchior wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:30 am Missouri Senator Blunt announces he isn't running in 2021. That'll open up the 4th leadership spot in the GOP side of the Senate. That is a total of 5 GOP Senators announcing retirement up to today.
Either the Dems will win easier control or the senate will get its first Marjorie Greenes and Lauren Boeberts.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:23 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:30 am Missouri Senator Blunt announces he isn't running in 2021. That'll open up the 4th leadership spot in the GOP side of the Senate. That is a total of 5 GOP Senators announcing retirement up to today.
Either the Dems will win easier control or the senate will get its first Marjorie Greenes and Lauren Boeberts.
Indeed. All the "retiring" GOP Senators face battleground state fights. Ohio and Wisconsin were/are the prime candidates for crazy because the GOP has more power to tilt the electoral battleground in their favor. We'll see how that pans out this year but I think there is a chance for a little of both. Maybe a D pick up of a seat but I could see them net 0 or McConnell back in charge. It's all possible.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

Holman wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:23 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:30 am Missouri Senator Blunt announces he isn't running in 2021. That'll open up the 4th leadership spot in the GOP side of the Senate. That is a total of 5 GOP Senators announcing retirement up to today.
Either the Dems will win easier control or the senate will get its first Marjorie Greenes and Lauren Boeberts.
It's Missouri: there's a much higher chance for a crazy to get elected than a Dem. A lot has changed there since McCaskill was elected in 2012.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by El Guapo »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:35 pm
Holman wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 5:23 pm
malchior wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 11:30 am Missouri Senator Blunt announces he isn't running in 2021. That'll open up the 4th leadership spot in the GOP side of the Senate. That is a total of 5 GOP Senators announcing retirement up to today.
Either the Dems will win easier control or the senate will get its first Marjorie Greenes and Lauren Boeberts.
It's Missouri: there's a much higher chance for a crazy to get elected than a Dem. A lot has changed there since McCaskill was elected in 2012.
I know, though a Democrat is going to have much higher odds (even if it's like 20% vs. 10%) of winning if they are running against a lunatic.

My WAG is that Trumpist lunatics will fare well in the GOP senate primaries for 2022. This will likely help the Democrats win at least one or two Senate races that they probably shouldn't relative to the partisan makeup of the relevant states. But it will also mean an even crazier GOP senate caucus.

It's also unclear whether spotting the Democrats a seat or two will be enough given likely voter suppression efforts and the GOP tilt of the Senate, but we'll see.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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2,000 page report of GOP Congresspersons contributing and supporting those who attacked Congress.
Rep. Zoe Lofgren (D-Calif), has compiled pieces of the publicly available social media postings made by those representatives who voted to deny Americans their choice of president; they did this even after a riotous mob overran the Capitol just hours earlier. Her nearly 2,000-page report, which has been online for a week, is both a trove of documentation and a steaming electronic landfill of fetid lies and incitement.
Full report:
This review lists public social media posts from Members of the U.S. House of Representatives who were sworn-in to office in January 2021 and who voted to overturn the 2020 presidential election.

This review includes public social media posts relevant to assessing the potential of Congress’ constitutional prerogatives and responsibilities, including actions pursuant to the 14th Amendment and/or House rules. This includes posts directly related to the violence on January 6, 2021 and claims regarding the legitimacy of the 2020 presidential election, as well as posts indirectly related to the lead-up to the insurrection or post-mortem thereof, including the second impeachment of former President Trump and efforts or proposals to invoke the 25th Amendment. Some indirect posts are listed because of how they fit in to a larger related narrative. Additionally, posts about censorship, 2020 riots, Russian collusion, and other topics are listed if they are used as false equivalencies or attempted misinformation.

This review is representative, but not exhaustive.
So, not strictly just the Invasion, but also the misinformation build up to enable it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Holman »

Bothsidesism makes accountability impossible.

No Republican will face consequences for encouraging the January 6 attack because Neera Tanden once tweeted something snarky about Lindsey Graham.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

The winner for first state to pass a regressive GOP sponsored voter suppression bill for 2021 goes to Iowa. Congrats Iowa!
The law shortens the early voting period to 20 days from the current 29, just three years after Republicans reduced the period from 40 days. It also requires most mail ballots to be received by Election Day, rather than counting votes postmarked by Election Day that arrive by noon on the Monday following the election.

Voting sites will close at 8 p.m. rather than 9 p.m., and county election officials are banned from sending out absentee ballot request forms unless requested. Satellite voting sites also can only be set up if enough voters petition for one, and voters will be removed from active voting lists if they miss a single general election and don’t report a change in address or register as a voter again.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Georgia is right behind them! America!!!!
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by YellowKing »

A guest on Pod Save America recently was talking about a study done that showed Trump still would have lost if turnout had been at 2016 levels, and that the Republican voter suppression laws they are passing may wind up biting them in the ass and deflating their own turnout.

Like Fox Mulder, I want to believe.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

YellowKing wrote: Mon Mar 08, 2021 9:24 pm A guest on Pod Save America recently was talking about a study done that showed Trump still would have lost if turnout had been at 2016 levels, and that the Republican voter suppression laws they are passing may wind up biting them in the ass and deflating their own turnout.

Like Fox Mulder, I want to believe.
I want to believe but I would really need to understand how they correct for the razor thin margin in a few states. If it was held on Wednesday instead of Tuesday it might have been different enough for Trump to win.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

Wow

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

Sounds like "Build Back Better." Shift the grift, indeed.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Smoove_B »

I thought I saw over the weekend he was specifically issuing numerous cease and desist letters to various state GOP franchises that were using the Trump name to raise money.

Delicious.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Kasey Chang »

IMHO, this is going to split the Republicans in half. A good portion of Republicans would never vote for Trump again, and feel betrayed by the GOP leaders for picking Trump in the first place. Either they defect or they don't turn out. The voting blockers will end up causing a party revolt when the younger gen (Republican equivalent of Gavin Newsome or Kamala Harris) gain power and get rid of the "old establishment". You can figure the old folks won't stand for that, and that'll push the new guys out to establish a new party or run as independents trying to take away Republican votes. Republicans will be weak for a decade or more.

Similar thing happened in Taiwan a couple decades back. The KMT split into the New Party (technically New KMT) and KMT. A couple elections later they agreed to merge again.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by dfs »

Kasey Chang wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 2:57 am IMHO, this is going to split the Republicans in half.....
The Republican party has been "going to split in half" since Richard Nixon resigned or after the first Bush lost the Reagan bounce or after the second Bush cratered things, but somehow they still end up ruling my country. I'll start believing the party is falling apart when they start actually losing elections by convincing margins. Until then they are the party of face eating leopards and it's roughly half our voting population.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Octavious »

I've yet to met a Republican that is not in Trump's side. The idea they are splitting is just wishful thinking. Our only hope is that he choaks to death on one of his steaks.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by dfs »

Octavious wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:26 am I've yet to met a Republican that is not in Trump's side. The idea they are splitting is just wishful thinking. Our only hope is that he choaks to death on one of his steaks.
There is a lot of confirmation bias as us blues think "This is what I would think/do if I were conservative," but I've come to accept that my red friends (and I do still have a few) just see the world differently than I do. They are now very worried about spending and the deficit and lawlessness in Portland and Cuomo being a predator of women and Biden isn't reaching across the aisle and....I mean it's as if Jan 6 and the previous 4 years was just business as usual for them.

In 2016 there was a smattering of folks wearing shirts that read they would rather be ruled by Russia than by democrats. That's laughably comical to me, but they mean it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Skinypupy »

He didn’t start his own party, which is complicated to do and be competitive, but Trump is trying to set himself up as the place where money for Republicans should go as opposed to GOP committees

dfs wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:42 am I mean it's as if Jan 6 and the previous 4 years was just business as usual for them.
The extent to which Jan 6 has either been minimized, justified, or simply memory-holed among conservatives because it's inconvenient is rather sickening.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by malchior »

That ultimately is the problem you have a huge part of the population that lives in a cynical fantasy bubble. And they aligned with the embodiment of all the bad things they complain about. If you are worried about debt, the Republicans have as their patron saint a person who is a debt king. He is also someone who doesn't pay his bills and cheats his staff and contractors. Worried about a sexual predator? Come on, man. Not reaching across the aisle? The last time the Republicans did that was in the Clinton years. It's all bluster and self-delusion. And anything you do to try to break the bubble only makes it stronger.
Skinypupy wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 9:45 amThe extent to which Jan 6 has either been minimized, justified, or simply memory-holed among conservatives because it's inconvenient is rather sickening.
It doesn't help that large parts of the 4th estate are frankly just enabling it. They focus on the day-to-day drama and just feed the chaos maelstrom.
Last edited by malchior on Tue Mar 09, 2021 10:44 am, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jeff V »

Trump's base should pay for new sod at Mar-a-lago. And if it leaves the rest of the party destitute? Boo fucking hoo. They have nobody to blame but themselves for indulging him in the first place.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

dfs wrote: Tue Mar 09, 2021 8:59 am The Republican party has been "going to split in half" since Richard Nixon resigned or after the first Bush lost the Reagan bounce or after the second Bush cratered things, but somehow they still end up ruling my country. I'll start believing the party is falling apart when they start actually losing elections by convincing margins. Until then they are the party of face eating leopards and it's roughly half our voting population.
I was largely relieved of the delusion when Trump won 2016. I laid it to rest in 2017 when I saw the volume of support he retained as he attacked so many and openly lied and grifted while his support blipped and bounced back while the worst of right took a foothold in institutionalization.
They are now very worried about spending and the deficit
Yep. That conversation comes back and the last four years of deficit and spending and Don't call it QE never happened, it all happened under Obama bailouts. (and January 6th is now a free speech memory in protest of ignoring democrat rigging of elections) and my problem is I can't even listen to it anymore. I shut down. There is no conversation any more. I feel like it's trying to discuss best practices in browser usage with someone who can't remember the upper right corner of images shows that those links are ads... And often it's the same demographic I can't talk to, like the Ven Diagram would be a single circle. :o It's defeat for me.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

I want to believe

https://www.politico.com/news/magazine/ ... erg-473330

Though more much more important to me is not so much Biden republicans but really anti Trump republicans.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Jaymann »

I agree a split in the near term is wishful thinking. But have you noticed how many of the Florida Man idol worshipers are aging white breads? How can this be viable long term?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Isgrimnur »

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It's almost as if people are the problem.
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