Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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She is wrong...

Cheney holds on to House GOP leadership position amid furor over impeachment vote
Three sources told NBC News the vote among Republican House members was 145-61.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by raydude »

Daehawk wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:37 am She is wrong...

Cheney holds on to House GOP leadership position amid furor over impeachment vote
Three sources told NBC News the vote among Republican House members was 145-61.
She only won in a secret vote. Ugh, the cravenness of these Representatives. I mean seriously, can they not see that all they have to do is stand up and the Q-strawman will fall? Sure, maybe they'll face primaries from Q-facing candidates but if they secure the money from big money donors then who freekin cares?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Defiant »

Daehawk wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:10 pm
So arguably the worst president in US history
I dont see anything to argue about. He was and is the worst.
But will he always be the worst, or will there be a worse one in the future?

Just something to think about when you go to sleep.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:58 am
Daehawk wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:10 pm
So arguably the worst president in US history
I dont see anything to argue about. He was and is the worst.
But will he always be the worst, or will there be a worse one in the future?

Just something to think about when you go to sleep.
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm
Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 11:58 am
Daehawk wrote: Wed Feb 03, 2021 8:10 pm
So arguably the worst president in US history
I dont see anything to argue about. He was and is the worst.
But will he always be the worst, or will there be a worse one in the future?

Just something to think about when you go to sleep.
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
Felt that way in 2016 re: the GOP Nomination tho, and the GOP is so much more beholden to the Q voters right now. Do we really think that will change in '22/'24? Especially in the Dem nominee is Harris?
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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I believe he means the very last president.
It's almost as if people are the problem.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Isgrimnur wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:31 pm I believe he means the very last president.
Although technically the very last president could be a great guy whose presidency is ended by a meteor or super volcano.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
I don't. One could be an otherwise competent president during a time when the end of the US is outside of the hands of the US (eg, asteroid impact) or where it was already put on the path of ending before they were elected.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:53 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
I don't. One could be an otherwise competent president during a time when the end of the US is outside of the hands of the US (eg, asteroid impact) or where it was already put on the path of ending before they were elected.
Fair. My reasoning was we'd always get through that (short of the extinction event - at which point, who cares? :) ) one way or another and hang together as a nation. We do well circling the wagons against outside forces - it's when we have time to self reflect that we have issues.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Alefroth »

stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:59 pm We do well circling the wagons against outside forces - it's when we have time to self reflect that we have issues.
That's arguable at this point.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Alefroth wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:53 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:59 pm We do well circling the wagons against outside forces - it's when we have time to self reflect that we have issues.
That's arguable at this point.
Yeah, 2001 was the last time America appeared unified. The fractures reappeared pretty quickly after that. I'd say COVID is an "outside force" that we are definitely not uniting against.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

coopasonic wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 2:00 pm
Alefroth wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 1:53 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:59 pm We do well circling the wagons against outside forces - it's when we have time to self reflect that we have issues.
That's arguable at this point.
Yeah, 2001 was the last time America appeared unified. The fractures reappeared pretty quickly after that. I'd say COVID is an "outside force" that we are definitely not uniting against.
I was thinking Putin but I think you nailed it.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:53 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
I don't. One could be an otherwise competent president during a time when the end of the US is outside of the hands of the US (eg, asteroid impact) or where it was already put on the path of ending before they were elected.
So, like, today.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by Defiant »

Zaxxon wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:03 pm
Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:53 pm
stessier wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 12:13 pm
I feel pretty safe saying he'll be beat by the last President.
I don't. One could be an otherwise competent president during a time when the end of the US is outside of the hands of the US (eg, asteroid impact) or where it was already put on the path of ending before they were elected.
So, like, today.
Despite the efforts of Trump (and other Republicans), I don't think the country is doomed yet. (But maybe that's wishful thinking?)
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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It's also possible the US could transform into something better (or at least, different) that doesn't have Presidents.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:06 pm It's also possible the US could transform into something better (or at least, different) that doesn't have Presidents.
I'd like to see us become a parliamentary system, but I know that would be impossible.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Greene gets slapped off of committees. Even 11 Repugnicans vote her out.

https://twitter.com/i/broadcasts/1yNGaWAXlVNxj
House votes to remove Rep. Marjorie Taylor Greene from committee roles
The House of Representatives voted 230-199 on Thursday to remove GOP lawmaker Marjorie Taylor Greene from her committee assignments over her embrace of the QAnon conspiracy theory and other violent political rhetoric.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:06 pm It's also possible the US could transform into something better (or at least, different) that doesn't have Presidents.
No, that's not possible. There's not going to be another constitutional convention, which is what it would take. Not going to happen.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:19 pm
Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:06 pm It's also possible the US could transform into something better (or at least, different) that doesn't have Presidents.
No, that's not possible. There's not going to be another constitutional convention, which is what it would take. Not going to happen.
Not possible? I think it's a lot likelier than, say, the doomsday asteroid hitting Earth scenario.

Just because something seems politically impossible now doesn't mean it will remain that way.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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I had wondered if most of those were the same Republicans who voted to impeach Trump, but I checked and only 3 who voted for impeachment were among those who voted to kick her off the committees.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Grifman wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 9:19 pm
Defiant wrote: Thu Feb 04, 2021 4:06 pm It's also possible the US could transform into something better (or at least, different) that doesn't have Presidents.
No, that's not possible. There's not going to be another constitutional convention, which is what it would take. Not going to happen.
It would be possible and Constitutional for Congress to aggressively re-assert its status and privileges as a co-equal branch of government.

The reason we have an Imperial Presidency is that Congress values party over responsibility.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Make the House and Senate only GOP and DEM..one gets each..250 per side...then either nothing gets done or some convince others to vote their way....of course that would lead to more hidden in each camp lol.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Well howdy there internet people.

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Nebraska GOP preparing to censure Senator Sasse for being disloyal to Trump
The state Republican party of Nebraska is preparing to vote on censuring U.S. Senator Ben Sasse before the conclusion of the Senate’s impeachment trial of former president Donald Trump.

The text of the Resolution of Censure, first reported by News Channel Nebraska, runs more than 1,200 words long, but every charge against Sasse basically boils down to the claim that the senator has been insufficiently loyal to Donald Trump, was wrong to oppose efforts to delegitimize and overturn the 2020 presidential election, and was wrong to blame Trump for the January 6 Capitol riot that left one police officer dead and sent 14 more to the hospital.

Although Sasse hasn’t said if he will vote to convict Trump, the censure resolution hits the Nebraska senator for his vote last week affirming that it is constitutional to hold an impeachment trial of a former official.

The resolution takes issue with Sasse’s accusation that Trump was guilty of “pouring gasoline on these fires of division” and deserves some blame for the Capitol riot. The resolution also condemns Sasse for relaying that a White House official told him Trump was “delighted” as the attack on the Capitol unfolded, without naming “which officials said Trump was ‘delighted.’”

Another charge against Sasse is that he said Missouri senator Josh Hawley’s plan to object to the certification was “a really dumbass stunt, based on lies that the election was fraudulent.”

“Senator Ben Sasse has persistently engaged in public acts of ridicule and calumny against President Donald J. Trump, through both the spoken and written word, questioning the president’s agenda, decisions, motives, and competency,” the resolution declares.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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This is all part of the slow, protracted death of the GOP, right?
Maybe next year, maybe no go
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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It really does have to die at this point so it can be reborn without the nutcases that have infiltrated it. I don't see any other way.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:07 am This is all part of the slow, protracted death of the GOP, right?
I thought that 2008 with the coming of the Tea Party hucksterism and the outlandish claims of the far far religious right but then 70 million people voted to reelect Trump. That they say 2017 to 2020 and said "Oh yeah! Give me more of that!" I referred to it in 2008, and probably before, as a welcomed coming of implosion of the party. I am coming to terms with the probability that I have been very very wrong, that Rip and company are the other side of the US coin, and that we're in a lot of trouble.

Oh, and anecdotally, they see Biden as part of the extreme leftism. Biden.
Last edited by LordMortis on Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:29 am, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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I get the hope that it'll die and be reformed but the problem lies squarely in the madness of the voters. We are supposed to be comforted that secret votes indicate that only a third of House representatives are blindly Trump loyal? That is really bad still. And how much does it matter? Where the public can see, Republicans generally all feign loyalty to Trump. I suspect they are in a holding pattern waiting to see if he can maintain his grip with the base now that he is de-platformed and the results of the trial.
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Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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I don't believe 70 million people suddenly decided to embrace QAnon conspiracies, anti-democracy, open racism, etc. However, I DO believe that tribalism is so strong in this country that 70 million people would rather ignore all that than vote for the opposing tribe. That's the real problem here.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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YellowKing wrote:I don't believe 70 million people suddenly decided to embrace QAnon conspiracies, anti-democracy, open racism, etc. However, I DO believe that tribalism is so strong in this country that 70 million people would rather ignore all that than vote for the opposing tribe. That's the real problem here.
Nailed it
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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YellowKing wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 10:29 am I don't believe 70 million people suddenly decided to embrace QAnon conspiracies, anti-democracy, open racism, etc. However, I DO believe that tribalism is so strong in this country that 70 million people would rather ignore all that than vote for the opposing tribe. That's the real problem here.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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If you're sitting a at a table with 5 Nazis and you're not saying anything, there are 6 Nazis at the table. Functionally (to me) it doesn't matter if only 5 million members of the current GOP are Trump/Q supporters and the other 65+ million are just along for the ride. Effectively they're all garbage, doubly so if they're allowing the party to swerve into the insanity that Trump normalized during the last 4+ years.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:03 am If you're sitting a at a table with 5 Nazis and you're not saying anything, there are 6 Nazis at the table. Functionally (to me) it doesn't matter if only 5 million members of the current GOP are Trump/Q supporters and the other 65+ million are just along for the ride. Effectively they're all garbage, doubly so if they're allowing the party to swerve into the insanity that Trump normalized during the last 4+ years.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote: Fri Feb 05, 2021 11:03 am If you're sitting a at a table with 5 Nazis and you're not saying anything, there are 6 Nazis at the table. Functionally (to me) it doesn't matter if only 5 million members of the current GOP are Trump/Q supporters and the other 65+ million are just along for the ride. Effectively they're all garbage, doubly so if they're allowing the party to swerve into the insanity that Trump normalized during the last 4+ years.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pragmatism
Moral questions immediately present themselves as questions whose solution cannot wait for sensible proof. A moral question is a question not of what sensibly exists, but of what is good, or would be good if it did exist. ... A social organism of any sort whatever, large or small, is what it is because each member proceeds to his own duty with a trust that the other members will simultaneously do theirs. Wherever a desired result is achieved by the co-operation of many independent persons, its existence as a fact is a pure consequence of the precursive faith in one another of those immediately concerned. A government, an army, a commercial system, a ship, a college, an athletic team, all exist on this condition, without which not only is nothing achieved, but nothing is even attempted.
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James proposed that which answer is correct depends on what you ‘practically mean’ by ‘going round’. If you mean passing from north of the squirrel, east, south, then west, then the answer to the question is ‘yes’. If, on the other hand, you mean in front of him, to his right, behind him, to his left, and then in front of him again, then the answer is ‘no’. After pragmatic clarification disambiguates the question, all dispute comes to an end. So James offers his pragmatism as a technique for clarifying concepts and hypotheses so that metaphysical disputes that appear irresoluble will be dissolved.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

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Smoove_B wrote:If you're sitting a at a table with 5 Nazis and you're not saying anything, there are 6 Nazis at the table. Functionally (to me) it doesn't matter if only 5 million members of the current GOP are Trump/Q supporters and the other 65+ million are just along for the ride. Effectively they're all garbage, doubly so if they're allowing the party to swerve into the insanity that Trump normalized during the last 4+ years.
That's true, but it's also human nature. It's been consistent throughout history.

We must continue to fight against it, but we shouldn't be surprised.
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Re: Defining the 21st Century Republican Party?

Post by LordMortis »

Heard bits of Greene speech about how this is the party of Trump and that republicans voting against her are voting against the base and they are done. So all of the ones who didn't vote against her are complicity or cowards. She drew the line and the masses chose a side.

Man, is she loahesome human being.
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