These guys were crazy, and I'm still not clear how they got the movies, since they weren't supposed to have cameras like that on the tour.
I've seen some movies like this before but it never fails to leave me stunned that a nation could really be like this. It's got to be one of the worst places on earth to live. The whole thing is surreal, and would be funny except real people actually live there under that regime.
Also of interest is this blog from a member of the NY Philharmonic:
And waved farewell to the strangest place by far I have ever visited; I can only describe it as being in the midst of a religious cult with a sinister and militaristic atmosphere.
And pengo, feel free to tell us all how NK is no worse than the US.
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“You only get one sunrise and one sunset a day, and you only get so many days on the planet. A good photographer does the math and doesn’t waste either.” ―Galen Rowell
Just started to read Dawn's blog. Very interesting link, Grifman. My mouth dropped when I read this bit:
Since oil and electricity are in short supply, our management had made heat a condition of our visit, and my room certainly was heated: to 80 degrees! We later learned that the residents of Pyongyang had been deprived of most electricity and heat for over a month prior to our arrival so that there would be enough left for us. Even the trees along our route were decorated with lights and the important monuments were lit at night, all so that we would be impressed with how great a country the DPRK really is!
I mean... really?
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I saw a doco once where some us reporters went to NK, and the hillsides were stripped bear of all tress, so that they could use the land to plant crops to feed everyone. It was pretty hardcore. Also that picture posted is impressive, not in a good way
Good finds. I think a better view of North Korea is the National Geographic documentary, "Inside North Korea."
"The average 7 year old boy is 8 inches shorter and 22 lbs lighter than his brother in South Korea."
National Geographic cameras got into DPRK by posing as a film crew following a Nepalese doctor who went as a mission of mercy, performing cataracts surgery. After the surgery they show some of the patients having their bandages removed and they can see for the first time in years. They cry and fanatically thank the great general for their eyesight.
Clip 1 Clip 2 - the beginning of this clip really tells you everything.
Personally, I'm torn. Part of me wants to cry for these people, while the other part wants to slap some sense into them. The only thing that is clear to me is that it will take several generations to heal the indoctrination. We'll be dealing with problems with DPRK for a long, long time.
The only good side to all of this is that when you see these conditions, you realize how weak a threat NK actually is. The nuclear threat is still something that should be taken seriously (it doesn't take a nation of well-fed, well-trained soldiers to push that button) - but I can't imagine that this country could fight a traditional war in any kind of effective manner.
YellowKing wrote:The only good side to all of this is that when you see these conditions, you realize how weak a threat NK actually is. The nuclear threat is still something that should be taken seriously (it doesn't take a nation of well-fed, well-trained soldiers to push that button) - but I can't imagine that this country could fight a traditional war in any kind of effective manner.
Yeah, it sounds like a really malnourished country in all areas. I imagine a war with them would be over pretty quick.
(God, I hope W never reads this post)
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I disagree that their army would be ineffective in a war. After all the reason the common people are suffering is so the army can maintain itself.
I think if they decided to invade the south they'd be hard pressed to be stopped. Of course they couldn't sustain an offensive very long without a large stockpile of war materials, something I doubt they have.
They almost conquered the south in a short time fifty some odd years ago and would have without American intervention.
Our strategy would be to delay them and deprive them of supplies. They'd soon run out of steam then.
dbt1949 wrote:I disagree that their army would be ineffective in a war. After all the reason the common people are suffering is so the army can maintain itself.
I think if they decided to invade the south they'd be hard pressed to be stopped. Of course they couldn't sustain an offensive very long without a large stockpile of war materials, something I doubt they have.
They almost conquered the south in a short time fifty some odd years ago and would have without American intervention.
Our strategy would be to delay them and deprive them of supplies. They'd soon run out of steam then.
Good point, dbt. I hadn't thought of that. At least, they're not nuclear-armed.
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"Don't waste your time or time will waste you."--Muse, 'Knights Of Cydonia'
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dbt1949 wrote:I disagree that their army would be ineffective in a war. After all the reason the common people are suffering is so the army can maintain itself.
I think if they decided to invade the south they'd be hard pressed to be stopped. Of course they couldn't sustain an offensive very long without a large stockpile of war materials, something I doubt they have.
They almost conquered the south in a short time fifty some odd years ago and would have without American intervention.
Our strategy would be to delay them and deprive them of supplies. They'd soon run out of steam then.
Good point, dbt. I hadn't thought of that. At least, they're not nuclear-armed.
Even if they aren't that won't exactly be a salve to Seoul which will look like it was hit by a nuclear weapon a day after any start of war.
Oh, I'm not saying they wouldn't be able to land a couple of tough punches early.
I've been playing C&C3 lately though, and I look at them as a GDI force cut off from any tiberium patches. They have a large, tough army, but you know that it's all they've got. They can either use it to launch a massive first strike, or they can use it to turtle, but either way they don't have the resources to fight a prolonged battle.
One of my wife's uncles is an agricultural professor in the Philippines who is employed by the UN. He's been to NK, and some of the stories he told me were just bizarre. That blog was pretty much right on point with what he told me.
Just finished reading Dawn's blog. This moment stood out for me:
It would have taken a heart of stone to not be moved by this moment of connection, of emotion, and of the power of music. I have to admit that until this point, I had been a skeptic about the possible value of such a concert. There has been a lot of criticism, much of it valid in my opinion, but it is hard to see how the few thousand individuals who were present could forget this connection and continue to hate us quite as much as they had been taught to, and perhaps that is enough of a start for now. It’s a softening, as someone said. It’s a seed of realization that we are not devils, just people. It’s perhaps a glimpse through the window of what life is like outside of the hermit kingdom.
The power of music is awesome.
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"Don't waste your time or time will waste you."--Muse, 'Knights Of Cydonia'
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Grifman wrote:I've seen some movies like this before but it never fails to leave me stunned that a nation could really be like this. It's got to be one of the worst places on earth to live. The whole thing is surreal, and would be funny except real people actually live there under that regime.
My thoughts as well. Their society really does seem like a Twilight Zone episode or some sort of not-quite-Earth planet from a science fiction movie. Or a grand-scale psychological experiment.
When the sun goes out, we'll have eight minutes to live.
pengo wrote:who is set to replace the leader once he dies? Does he have any sons? Or will there be a civil war as his cronies fight for power?
He has three sons and apparently two or maybe all of them have been groomed for power - though since its North Korea they might all actually be women and actually his mistresses.
dbt1949 wrote:I disagree that their army would be ineffective in a war. After all the reason the common people are suffering is so the army can maintain itself.
Rule #1 for impoverished dictatorships everywhere: the Army gets to eat.
In many countries you need to bribe your way into the army for this very reason.
really?
