[TV] Superman and Lois

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rittchard
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[TV] Superman and Lois

Post by rittchard »

The CW launched its latest Arrowverse show, bringing back the popular Superman and Lois Lane that we first saw in the Supergirl series. The show's angle is to focus more on the family life side of Superman, who now has twin teenage boys to contend with. It's a nice twist for the hero as we've seen so many other incarnations of him already. This one should be fun for parents, especially for those with teens who they don't know what to do with.

I was pleasantly surprised with the premiere, it had a really good, emotional grounding to it, particularly for a pilot. I think they had a slight advantage in that people are already familiar with the characters, and slightly familiar with these actors in the lead roles, so there's less pressure for introduction and more focus on character/story elements.

The two boys they cast for the twins are appealing (and annoying) enough, I suspect we will get to see a lot of growth for them as the series continues.

The one thing that kind of struck me was that it felt like this series could exist completely outside of the Arrowverse. I may have missed something but I don't think they ever mention anything directly or even indirectly. It will be interesting to see how it integrates, though in some ways it may be better off as a show if it were allowed to stand alone.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Blackhawk »

The truth is that we don't know much about the Arrowverse. They did a sort of soft reboot last season that gives them fairly free reign to redefine anything they want to.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by dbt1949 »

I'm watching the Grimm series (again) and the hero's girlfriend is the one playing Lois in this series.
She's pretty good.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Blackhawk »

I liked her in Grimm, and I've liked her as Lois in other Arrowverse stuff.

I just finished the pilot. I was really happy with it. My impression is that it is one part Superman, two parts Smallville (the early seasons), and seems to be constructed entirely of easter eggs. I do like that we're getting an established Superman in a time after people know who he is. It was positive without being cloying (I'm looking at you, Supergirl), and had a lot of heart.

Spoiler:
Right at the beginning we saw a near recreation of the first Superman comic, Action Comics #1, including the black 'S'.

The chalkboard that read, in part "Dr Donner" and "Call Siegel & Schuster", references to Smallville, the Donner films, Man of Steel, etc.

ACE Chemical appeared at one point (some Batmannery there.) And the internet tells me that the second nuclear plant was Hudson Nuclear Power Plant, which also has history in DC comics (Firestorm got his start there.)
As to the ending, I'm guessing:
Spoiler:
That we're finally getting a truly villainous Lex Luthor. "My world was destroyed" could very easily be a reference to what I mentioned earlier - the destruction and collapsing of multiple realities last season in the Arrowvers Crisis on Infinite Earths event. The Doom Guy armor could certainly pass as a version of Lex's Warsuit.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by gameoverman »

I watched the first episode. It surprised me, it wasn't what I expected. It wasn't exactly grim dark but the tone was a lot more subdued than I thought it would be. There were times I almost forgot Superman was in it. I like the cast and I like the family dynamics so I'm going to keep watching to see what they do with it. I also enjoyed seeing him fight Doomguy, I mean that costume couldn't be more Doomguy right?
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Blackhawk »

That's what I called him in my second spoiler, and that's the first thing that occurred to my son (who just finished Doom 2016 this week) when he saw it.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by rittchard »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:41 pm The truth is that we don't know much about the Arrowverse. They did a sort of soft reboot last season that gives them fairly free reign to redefine anything they want to.
Yeah but wasn't it established at the end of Crisis that there was only one universe now and all the heroes in the shows were sharing the same one? This show could be set in the future (I thought the twins were babies when we heard about them), but nothing seemed to indicate that.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Blackhawk »

rittchard wrote: Mon Mar 01, 2021 1:26 pm
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Feb 25, 2021 7:41 pm The truth is that we don't know much about the Arrowverse. They did a sort of soft reboot last season that gives them fairly free reign to redefine anything they want to.
Yeah but wasn't it established at the end of Crisis that there was only one universe now and all the heroes in the shows were sharing the same one? This show could be set in the future (I thought the twins were babies when we heard about them), but nothing seemed to indicate that.
Spoilers for last year's Arrowverse Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover:
Spoiler:
Not quite. Unlike the comic bearing the same name, they showed at the end that the Spectre didn't just reboot Earth Prime, but rebooted the entire Multiverse. Presumably some universes were merged (thus bringing Supergirl and Black Lightning onto Earth Prime with Flash/Legends/etc), while other universes were destroyed (which is where I'm guessing S&L's "Captain Luthor" comes from - a survivor of a destroyed universe, something we've already seen post-Crisis last season, although I don't remember which show it was on.) And it takes place in the present. It was established at the beginning of Crisis that their son was a baby, and that they had only one kid, not two. The scene at the end of Crisis had Lois referring to them in the plural and Superman being very, very surprised. Jonathon (Pre-Crisis) was born in 2019, but S&L mentions they were born in 2007, another change from the Crisis. From the end of Crisis:


There are other interesting possibilities. They've done both Flashpoint and Crisis now. The following is pure speculation. Spoilers from various previous Arrowverse, S&L, and the comics:
Spoiler:
Superman at the end of Crisis did not know that he had two kids. The Superman we from S&L acts like it's business as usual that he has two, he was married years earlier, his kids were born 12 years earlier, etc. Did he keep his pre-Crisis memories or not?

Possibility 1: The S&L Superman knows it wasn't that was originally and is playing along, a potential point of conflict later.
Possibility 2: Memories are wonky. Some people kept their memories after the switch (notably the Paragons.) Others had their memories restored (thanks, J'onn.) Most simply accept that the new, changed reality was that way all along.
Possibility 3: This is an interesting one. In comics when Flashpoint happened and the universe went wonky, all the characters were different. Wally West went from a redheaded white guy to a Black kid. The members of the Justice League had never met. Superman was younger, looked different, hadn't told Lois his secret, etc. In a couple of cases, the original character was eventually revealed to have survived as well - eventually there were two Wally Wests, one white, one Black. At one point it was revealed that the original, older Superman had also made it through the universe changing. When he realized what had happened he took it as an opportunity to retire. There was another Superman who was able to keep the world from falling apart, and the original Superman finally got a chance to take a break, kicking back in a cabin somewhere. I haven't read 100% of the stories involved, so I likely have some details wrong, but that's the basic idea. Note that nobody in the DC comics universe knew about any of this for years until the Rebirth event happened and reset the changes from Flashpoint back to (mostly) the way they were.

I only bring this up because the events that caused all of this in the comics (Crisis, Flashpoint) have also happened in the Arrowverse. It wouldn't be a huge stretch to see them pull from the comics for this too - there could be two Supermans... Supermen... Two Clark Kents running around, one the original Arrowverse Superman, living incognito somewhere, the other the S&L version. It isn't too likely, but it could make for some interesting plots.


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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Only Hancock showed what happens when a super being has sex. Well maybe some The Boys.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Smallville did.

The worst thing would be The Flash.

For Flash, it would be like having the world's slowest sex for 12 hours straight. For the girl, it would like four seconds with a vibrator.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Thanks for the details Blackhawk!!

I really enjoyed the last episode. Some of the effects are really fantastic, and I was not expecting that at all. It looks like it's done in a widescreen cinematic format or something, which looks great. I don't really understand what's going on with the villain(?) guy, but honestly I don't really care. I'm enjoying the twins (I'm sure some will think they are whiny and hate them), and I like this actress as Lois. I've never thought as Tyler Hoechlin as a great actor, and in some ways I find him the weakest spot on the show oddly enough, but he is so very charming and attractive I guess it doesn't really matter.

The premiere apparently did so well the show has already been picked up for season 2.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Hamlet3145 »

rittchard wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:32 pm I don't really understand what's going on with the villain(?) guy, but honestly I don't really care.
Rittch, I think, with the end of the last episode, they are implying that:
Spoiler:
Captain Luther is from a future time when Superman has gone bad and that's where he knows Lois' Dad from.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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rittchard wrote:It looks like it's done in a widescreen cinematic format or something, which looks great.
Here's a very nerdy tech article on what they used to film it.

The reader they acknowledge at the end of the article for giving them the heads up is a good friend and co-worker of mine. He's a big film camera techie, so he was REALLY excited when he found out what they were using.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Daehawk »

I think with Flash some part of someone would catch on fire due to friction.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Daehawk wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 5:59 pm I think with Flash some part of someone would catch on fire due to friction.
In the pilot he melted his shoes. That's what's behind the suit (which was, I believe, an experimental firefighting suit.)

Of course, they've kind of hand-waved that since then and he runs in his street clothes all the time. Or maybe he's just gotten better with his powers. In the comics when he moves he transfers his inertia to whatever he's in contact with - essentially it reacts as if it had been moving that speed all along (it's the Speed Force, after all!) It's how he can grab someone at speed and not just cut them in half, ala A-Train.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Hamlet3145 wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 2:03 pm
rittchard wrote: Thu Mar 04, 2021 1:32 pm I don't really understand what's going on with the villain(?) guy, but honestly I don't really care.
Rittch, I think, with the end of the last episode, they are implying that:
Spoiler:
Captain Luther is from a future time when Superman has gone bad and that's where he knows Lois' Dad from.
Hmmm OK, I guess combined with Blackhawk's post that kind of makes sense. But I guess I'm still curious if he's related to the annoying Luther from the Arrowverse in any way?

Also thanks YK for that info, that was really cool!!
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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Another fine episode, this show is really hitting the right marks for me. I love all the teen drama and I keep laughing about how obnoxious and rude all these kids are, but after reading the recent Wandavision thread I can't help but wonder if this is what kids are really like in this era. Surprisingly I am really enjoying Sarah, who I thought was just going to be a standard love interest. In fact I really like all of the side characters, which is fairly rare for me.

I like Tyler Hoechlin's Superman the most when he's doing awkward/goofy Clark, and of course he looks fantastic in the suit. I'm not sold on him in the father role, but maybe that's what they are aiming for. Some of the scenes with the kids feel awkward, not necessarily in a purposeful way, but I guess we are supposed to assume he is/was absent. Which is also a little hard to accept because it doesn't seem to fit his personality, and also Lois never seems to be at home either, so who the heck was watching over these kids? I kind of wish they would have started the kids at a younger age, to see how Clark dealt with being Superman and trying to take care of two crying babies. The teen angle definitely has more drama to farm, but it feels like we missed a big chunk of material in between their lives. Maybe they can do some flashbacks a la This is Us.
Spoiler:
A little disappointed they killed off Colossus so quickly without any sort of explanation. Also a bit odd Superman didn't seem surprised at all that the guy had powers or was a super being of some sort? Felt like a scene or two was missing.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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I have been really enjoying this show, but have been kind of baffled with the show's core identity. When it was originally announced it sounded like it was a clear entry into the new post-Crisis Arrowverse. But they went 10 episodes without a single reference (that I am aware of) and I was convinced it was NOT an Arrowverse show. Then last night (semi-spoiler alert) we get a John Diggle visit with references to Oliver and his wife and that he knows both Lois and Superman, etc. He also makes some reference to other universes so we know this is the "Arrowverse" version of him. But unfortunately that opens up the can of worms that ALL of the other characters in the Arrowverse are available in this universe.

(Again some spoilers for over the season). I understand having shows be isolated from each other even though they exist in the same world, kind of like the comics are. But in truly dire moments, it seems completely inane that there wouldn't at least be the thought of contacting these others. The biggest one prior to the latest storyline was with the son with powers nearly dying and being unable to handle it. Wouldn't it be nice if there were some other technology experts around that might be able to help him? Or maybe a Martian telepath? Nah, let's just let the kid suffer and see what happens. More egregious is the plot where we have a potential Superman turning on humanity. If only there were someone who might be able to help... a family member perhaps? One with the SAME powers he has? Who has a whole team of super powered folk backing them up? No, let's just trust some rando from nowhere who only wants to kill our greatest hero.

I realize the logistics are far from easy and you don't want to rely on other shows/characters, but this is one time it just defies all reason. They could simply mention Supergirl stuck in the dimension and Flash unreachable or something and I would shut up.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

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They've been doing it with all of the Arrowverse shows this season. They even skipped the annual crossover. There are two reasons: the first is that COVID screwed up last season, causing most of the shows to cut the season short by several episodes. The shows this season all started off... weird. Flash, for instance, spent the first few episodes finishing last season. That made everything tighter this season. The other reason is that they are absolutely not allowing cast and crew from their shows to mingle. They're afraid of a COVID outbreak across multiple shows. Diggle isn't on any of the other shows.

But yeah, while they could mention the other shows, they've always just kind of hand-waved that. Otherwise they'd be stuck explaining why a dozen different heroes aren't showing up ever single episode. 90% of the Arrow episodes could have been cut to ten minutes if Ollie had just phones Barry (and there were a couple of times he did, having Barry drop off some gadget - Flash makes for an easy cameo, as you just need the blur/lightning and not the actor.) There are times when they do need to address it, though. Like the episode of the Flash when they broke time... you know, the kind of activity that sets off klaxons for the Legends.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Holman »

I haven't seen the show, but this seems like a good place to link Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" again.
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Re: [TV] Superman and Lois

Post by Blackhawk »

Holman wrote: Wed Jul 14, 2021 4:58 pm I haven't seen the show, but this seems like a good place to link Larry Niven's "Man of Steel, Woman of Kleenex" again.
I remember that. Although this is a show about a married Superman with two kids.
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