Beirut Explosion

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Daehawk
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Daehawk »

Hey ya know I heard there was an explosion in Beirut the other day.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Blackhawk »

This is OO. We wander. We discuss angles. We diverge. Then something new comes out and we skew back on topic.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Moat_Man »

FWIW, I didn't take Jaymon's comment like that, at all.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Hrothgar »

I'm not trying to condemn anyone. The comment crossed a line for me. I'm asking everyone to be considerate. Maybe someday I'll start a R&P thread about how the recent rise in antisemitism forced me to embrace my Jewish heritage, but today is not that day.

Let us all be thankful that Lebanon has a neighbor with the means and heart to help them.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Blackhawk wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:57 am It's also worth noting that the 'racism' label is a big, big thing to apply to something these days, especially without giving people the benefit of the doubt on something with multiple interpretations.
Indeed, yet that's precisely why such accusations have become the coin of the realm during a highly contentious political season.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Anonymous Bosch »

Hrothgar wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:18 am I'm not trying to condemn anyone. The comment crossed a line for me. I'm asking everyone to be considerate. Maybe someday I'll start a R&P thread about how the recent rise in antisemitism forced me to embrace my Jewish heritage, but today is not that day.

Let us all be thankful that Lebanon has a neighbor with the means and heart to help them.
Amen.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by malchior »

Anonymous Bosch wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:20 am
Blackhawk wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:57 am It's also worth noting that the 'racism' label is a big, big thing to apply to something these days, especially without giving people the benefit of the doubt on something with multiple interpretations.
Indeed, yet that's precisely why such accusations have become the coin of the realm during a highly contentious political season.
Also a little sad to me because this reminds me that Taibbi was the subject of his own hit piece that ran in the Washington Post only a couple of years ago. Accusations or implication even well meaning fly too easily nowadays and people are more than willing to just accept it as true.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Daehawk »

400' crater

Enlarge Image

Here are some before and after of those type pics you can slide.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/08/05/world/sa ... index.html
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by McNutt »

That antisemitic label really rubbed me the wrong way. To me the comment would have made just as much sense if it had been about Ireland sending aid to England. It had nothing to do with Jews being tight with money and was instead about two countries with a hostile past. You could have countered with the comment that Israel has a history of doing this without labeling his post as antisemitic. That went too far in my opinion.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by ImLawBoy »

McNutt wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 12:25 pm That antisemitic label really rubbed me the wrong way. To me the comment would have made just as much sense if it had been about Ireland sending aid to England. It had nothing to do with Jews being tight with money and was instead about two countries with a hostile past. You could have countered with the comment that Israel has a history of doing this without labeling his post as antisemitic. That went too far in my opinion.
While I agree that the intent of the post was not likely anti-semitic, I think it's also telling that a number of our Jewish members admit that they either felt it was anti-semitic or at least had concerns about it being anti-semitic. It's a testament to how insidious anti-semitism (and other forms of racism) can be that those of us outside of the affected group may not even recognize the anti-semitic (or other racist) potential in something. That's why I think Hrothgar's post was valuable, even if I think he should have given Jaymon the benefit of the doubt.
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Ralph-Wiggum
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

As one of the Jewish members on the forum, I will say that I didn't take the post as anti-semitic at all and didn't even make a connection to the Jews-tight-with-money stereotype until it was explicitly referenced in a later post. I don't *think* the post was meant that way, but of course when these things are not specified they are left open for interpretation.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Something can be said with no ill intent yet be construed as inappropriate. Such is the nature of human communication.


Calling a statement anti-Semitic, rather than saying it may be construed as anti-Semitic, is making a judgment on the poster, not the statement. Sensitivity is a two-way street.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by TheMix »

LawBeefaroni wrote: Thu Aug 06, 2020 2:01 pm Something can be said with no intent yet be construed as inappropriate. Such is the nature of human communication.


Calling a statement anti-Semitic, rather than saying it may be construed as anti-Semitic, is making a judgment on the poster, not the statement. Sensitivity is a two-way street.
This. Thanks for so clearly stating what was bugging me about the situation. I couldn't figure out how to best articulate what I was feeling.

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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Jaymon »

Hey everybody, guess I missed a bit. But yeah, what I meant was, Israel and Lebanon are not on the best of terms. But this event was so horribly catastrophic, that they are setting that aside for the moment, so Israel can send aid.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Paingod »

Freyland wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:29 pm I also took it as a reflection on the history between those two countries.
+1

It'd be akin to saying "You know it's bad when Colorado sends people to help Texas"
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by TheMix »

Paingod wrote: Fri Aug 07, 2020 11:25 am
Freyland wrote: Wed Aug 05, 2020 10:29 pm I also took it as a reflection on the history between those two countries.
+1

It'd be akin to saying "You know it's bad when Colorado sends people to help Texas"
:lol:

And I lived in Texas before moving to Colorado (by way of Illinois).

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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by gameoverman »

I'm not Jewish or French or German or even Lebanese so I took that comment to be about irony. Saudi Arabia or Iran helping Lebanon at this time would not have a bit of irony to it, so I would be open to interpreting that comment in other ways. Israel helping Lebanon at this time is right smack dab in the middle of the irony bullseye in my opinion. In fact, I'd consider Israel helping any of those surrounding countries except maybe Jordan as being ironic. Not because they are Jewish, but because of the hostile relations those countries have had in the past or do have now. Imagine some catastrophe happens in Russia and Ukraine is one of the countries sending aid, that's how I thought it was meant.

However, I also acknowledge that it's a hell of a lot easier for someone who isn't part of a specific group of people to miss legitimate interpretations of remarks aimed at that group. It's why I think it's important to let people speak up about stuff like this and then to listen to them. I learned something here that I wouldn't have if no one said anything.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Daehawk »

Or something happening in the US and anyone sending aid. :lol:
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by hitbyambulance »

i didn't see it that way either. just to put this to rest, directly from the wikipedia article:
Notably, Israel offered aid via UN channels, in what Al Jazeera English described as an "unusual move" given that Israel and Lebanon have no diplomatic ties and are technically at war. Despite years of Israeli–Lebanese conflict, including the 2006 Lebanon War, both Israel and senior Hezbollah officials ruled out Israeli involvement in the explosion, a claim spread via social media.

Several countries expressed solidarity by lighting up landmarks and monuments in the colours of the Lebanese flag, including the City Hall of Tel Aviv, whereas the Eiffel Tower in Paris went dark at midnight to show respect and solidarity with the people of Lebanon, and the Arab League flag at its headquarters in Cairo was flown at half-mast as a symbol of mourning of the victims. Some figures from the Israeli right-wing criticized the display of the flag of Lebanon, an "enemy state", in Tel Aviv. There was also backlash inside Lebanon against the Israeli gesture.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Kurth »

Yep. Not anti-semetic, but I understand Jaymon’s original comment. Jews tend to have a well-founded sensitivity to Israel being unfairly singled out for bad behavior and ignored for all the good it routinely does.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

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I consider there's difference between Israel and Jews.
For instance I'm none to fond of Israel's handling of the Palestinians but I hold no negative thoughts towards Jews.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Blackhawk »

dbt1949 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:35 am I consider there's difference between Israel and Jews.
For instance I'm none to fond of Israel's handling of the Palestinians but I hold no negative thoughts towards Jews.
I feel the same way about America and Americans these days.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by dbt1949 »

I was thinking that also. :wink:
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Holman »

dbt1949 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:35 am I consider there's difference between Israel and Jews.
For instance I'm none to fond of Israel's handling of the Palestinians but I hold no negative thoughts towards Jews.
Most of the Jews I know are severe critics of the Netanyahu government.

I've been to Passover Seders where that was the central topic for hours.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by Kurth »

dbt1949 wrote: Sat Aug 08, 2020 10:35 am I consider there's difference between Israel and Jews.
For instance I'm none to fond of Israel's handling of the Palestinians but I hold no negative thoughts towards Jews.
100% right. But it's also natural for Jews to feel a sensitivity to the world's treatment of Israel, seeing as how it's the only Jewish state there is.
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Re: Beirut Explosion

Post by xwraith »

Interesting AAR analysis of the explosion:

https://forensic-architecture.org/inves ... -explosion
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