NFL 2019 - 20 Season with Playoffs

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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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McNutt wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:17 pm So what did Kaepernick gain by moving the location? He might have been trying to call out the NFL, but how did that help him?
Public video. Other than that I am not sure he gained anything. And you could probably be the third string QB at any major college and look good in tryout video.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I'm not sure how anyone stops Baltimore. How did they lose to the Browns??
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I thought they needed to move on from Caldwell because the team had clearly regressed under him. They did not look like they were going to progress with him. When they hired Patricia he was supposedly the most sought after assistant coach so people got fired up about it. Even after the SB. I'm not really annoyed they hired him but they do need to move on from him. Honestly, I miss Jim Swartz too. They didn't win a ton but they were coming off the first 0-16 season ever when he came on and they played with edge on both sides of the ball. I'd love to see him get a shot with some actual NFL caliber talent to build upon.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Remus West wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 9:08 am I thought they needed to move on from Caldwell because the team had clearly regressed under him. They did not look like they were going to progress with him. When they hired Patricia he was supposedly the most sought after assistant coach so people got fired up about it. Even after the SB. I'm not really annoyed they hired him but they do need to move on from him. Honestly, I miss Jim Swartz too. They didn't win a ton but they were coming off the first 0-16 season ever when he came on and they played with edge on both sides of the ball. I'd love to see him get a shot with some actual NFL caliber talent to build upon.
As a Lions fan, I'm not looking for a Superbowl title ever. I'm looking for above .500 seasons and playoff games and maybe the occasional playoff win. We had that and threw it away because ownership thought they were the Patriots.

Win 9 to 11 games on the regular and you might catch lightning in a bottle. You might not. But it will be a lot better than trying to be an organization you are not and will never be.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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From 1960-2001 the Patriots were not the Patriots. I don't believe in accepting mediocraty as the only thing we are capable of acheiving.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Remus West wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:20 am From 1960-2001 the Patriots were not the Patriots.
But they didn't say, "Let's be the Cowboys." They rebuilt the Patriots. Also, in the 90s alone they went to the playoffs 4 times. They won 4 playoff games total. That's more in their Pre-Patriot decade than the the Lions in...ever in the SB era.

Remus West wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:20 am I don't believe in accepting mediocraty as the only thing we are capable of acheiving.
Ok, fair enough. But achieve mediocrity first. Do so on a regular basis and then talk about the next level. And you can't shortcut by trying to bringing in magic Patriots pixie dust.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:51 am
Remus West wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:20 am From 1960-2001 the Patriots were not the Patriots.
But they didn't say, "Let's be the Cowboys." They rebuilt the Patriots. Also, in the 90s alone they went to the playoffs 4 times. They won 4 playoff games total. That's more in their Pre-Patriot decade than the the Lions in...ever in the SB era.

Remus West wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 10:20 am I don't believe in accepting mediocraty as the only thing we are capable of acheiving.
Ok, fair enough. But achieve mediocrity first. Do so on a regular basis and then talk about the next level. And you can't shortcut by trying to bringing in magic Patriots pixie dust.
Caldwell got us mediocrity. I don't buy into the whole Patriot's way thing but I think it silly to look down on people because they have been working for a dynasty and may try to do similar things in a new location.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I actually liked the Patriots when they were the lovable losers. Anyone else remember Steve Grogan?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:44 pm I actually liked the Patriots when they were the lovable losers. Anyone else remember Steve Grogan?
Well, sure, that's how fandom works for teams that aren't your own. You root for them when they're scrappy underdogs, but after a team wins a couple titles, then they progressively become the villain.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stessier wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:54 am I'm not sure how anyone stops Baltimore. How did they lose to the Browns??
Raven's secondary was getting torched, so they traded with the Ram's for Marcus Peters and I believe Jimmy Smith came off IR. It changed the whole back field dynamic


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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 4:38 pm
Remus West wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:33 pm
Jeff V wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 pm And the Bears screw the Raiders a little bit by not losing. What an ugly game though.
Pffft. The Lions lost to the Redskins. Thats ugly at its "finest". I wasn't in favor of firing the current GM/Coach combo until then. Now I just want them gone. Can we please have someone that is capable of building a real team here? Please? I miss the Big Buck.
They replaced Caldwell after back to back 9-7 seasons. You knew it was doomed to failure when they signed Patricia the day after he DC'd the Superbowl and was on the losing end of the highest combined yardage total in SB history. The Patriots had the highest losing score ever as well. Perfect Lions move.
Wikipedia wrote:Caldwell's record as Lions coach was 36–28 (.563), making him the first Detroit head coach (who lasted at least one season) to have a winning record since Joe Schmidt, who led the team from 1967 to 1972. Caldwell's .563 winning percentage was the best for a Lions' head coach since Buddy Parker in the 1950s.
11-5, 7-9, 9-7, 9-7. Can't be having that.
Much like I think Schwartz improved the Lions by giving them fire and then saw the team hit a ceiling when it came to controlling it, I think Caldwell improved the Lions by taming that fire and then hit a ceiling primarily with in game management and decision making. I think removing him for the next person was the right move... Provided you have the right next person. Quinn set the bar correctly when he hired Patricia... 9-7 is not good enough for this roster... He needed to hire a great game manager while retaining what Caldwell built on. Stepping backward year one was failure. Quinn had a roster ready to get better and he made them worse. Patricia had a team ready to be managed better and he's managed them worse and the P and Q torched the locker room Caldwell and Shwartz spent, like, a decade building to boot. I was excited at the idea of change. I was willing to see where things were going in the new direction, even as reports the locker room was lost before the season began. I was in favor of the two them being gone the moment it was reported they lost 7 games on the season last year. That was the day the Martha/Wood/Quinn demonstrably failed in having fired Caldwell without the vision to replace him with something better. I also question if Rod Wood should go but I'm not knowledgeable enough to know his relationship with Quinn and things downstream.

I'm disappointed my company bought tickets to see a game this year, putting money in the organizations pockets, even if I was pleasant surprised... at the way Lions lost... Thinking maybe, just maybe, they'd prove me wrong. It took a couple of weeks to bounce back to being disinterested, where my Sundays are better for it.

Much like Gores' Pistons, I wouldn't shed a tear if Ford's Lions left Detroit. They consistently show that a lack of concern for the market that pays for these teams. I lament that Davidson sold the Pistons to Gores and the only evidence I've seen that the Ford's have ever given a damned is when Martha starting showing up to games. But either she doesn't understand or she doesn't care. Either way. She's been at the helm for five years. And she "loved Jim Caldwell" enough to replace him with Patricia.

... That's my longwinded way of saying meh, which suggests there is still hope for me to become a fair weather fan. But I don't see me returning to watch the first two games of next season to test the waters. That last benefit of the doubt got burned with Patricia's debut.

What's sad for me it that the Steelers have always been my second team (turning a blind eye to Big Ben off the field) and they seem to be heading in the wrong direction as well for two or maybe three years running.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stessier wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:54 am I'm not sure how anyone stops Baltimore. How did they lose to the Browns??
tune in next week... (hopefully)
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 12:44 pm I actually liked the Patriots when they were the lovable losers. Anyone else remember Steve Grogan?
YA,he's my CIO
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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So it was Stafford who was holding back the Lions...
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Jaymann wrote: Thu Nov 28, 2019 2:09 pm So it was Stafford who was holding back the Lions...
Holding them back from....a #1 draft pick? His winning ways put them too far behind Cincinnati to even dream of catching up.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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naednek wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:56 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:54 am I'm not sure how anyone stops Baltimore. How did they lose to the Browns??
tune in next week... (hopefully)
Nope.. maybe you can try again in a couple months? (Was a great game though... miserable weather.)
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Yeah, this looks like Baltimore's year.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stessier wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:15 pm Yeah, this looks like Baltimore's year.
Nah, you know anything can happen in the playoffs. And even though the defense has been rebuilt, they have their flaws. I'm glad they're having a great year, and they're so much more fun to watch. But every week's a challenge.

And Pittsburgh can go away, any time now.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Watching football with a 6 year old is exhausting.

“Dad, why did they throw that flag?”

“Dad, what’s a touchback?”

“Dad, why did they throw that?”

“Dad, are they allowed to cheat?”

“Dad, why didn’t he score a touchdown there?”

“Dad, what are the playoffs?”

“Dad, aren’t they supposed to tackle him?”

And my favorite:

“Dad, if your team isn’t good, why are they still your team?”

Good question, pal. Good question.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Baroquen wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 5:05 pm
naednek wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 1:56 pm
stessier wrote: Tue Nov 26, 2019 4:54 am I'm not sure how anyone stops Baltimore. How did they lose to the Browns??
tune in next week... (hopefully)
Nope.. maybe you can try again in a couple months? (Was a great game though... miserable weather.)
ya, it was a fun game. Don't know why the niners went soft during the 2min warning in the 1st half. Felt like they didn't know what they wanted to do, and ended up throwing away a possibly 3 points which was the difference of the game.

Jackson is the real deal.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Have the Raiders scored any points yet? Wow 9 whole points. Oh well it was nice while it lasted.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Skinypupy wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:26 pm Watching football with a 6 year old is exhausting.

“Dad, why did they throw that flag?”

“Dad, what’s a touchback?”

“Dad, why did they throw that?”

“Dad, are they allowed to cheat?”

“Dad, why didn’t he score a touchdown there?”

“Dad, what are the playoffs?”

“Dad, aren’t they supposed to tackle him?”

And my favorite:

“Dad, if your team isn’t good, why are they still your team?”

Good question, pal. Good question.
I wish my 6 year old was interested enough to ask such questions. I'd happily answer them.

When the Bears were in Superbowl 20, some of my friends and I went to a popular bar in the most active nightlife district in Chicago (The Snuggery on Division). We got there early, and had dinner there. Then they took away the tables -- it was going to be a SRO night. Then they started taking away chairs...but abandon the effort before they snagged out chairs because it got too crowded. So we wound up with the only seats in the place. When the game started, two gorgeous young ladies asked me and another single friend if they could sit on our laps. They didn't know anything about football, and I answered my girl's questions most willingly. My friend, however, who had a history of torpedoing things with women and at the time was a mid-20's virgin, apparently was not so helpful. At half-time, they up and went. I asked him, "what the fuck did you say?" His response, "she didn't know anything about football...so she wasn't for me." I punched him, but didn't break his nose like I did at a college game incident also involving cute girls.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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In my 35+ years of being an Eagles fan, today's loss to the Dolphins may be the worst loss I've ever seen from this franchise. Just awful. The NFC East is truly trash this year.

Even worse, it really looks to me that Carson Wentz has regressed. His accuracy is way off. He's wildly overthrowing RBs in the flat on easy throws, and he's missing badly on deep balls to WRs (granted, the opportunities to throw deep balls to this group of WRs are few and far between). And the playcalling is awful. The offensive line is the strongest unit on this team, and we've got a good young back in Miles Sanders, but instead Doug Pederson has an obviously struggling Wentz drop back and throw the ball 50 times. Terrible.

I am going to wake up tomorrow in a bad mood. :x
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I bet stessier is feeling slightly pessimistic about the Patriot's chances this postseason.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Kurth wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 3:01 am The NFC East is truly trash this year.
Yes, it is. :dance:

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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:02 am I bet stessier is feeling slightly pessimistic about the Patriot's chances this postseason.
One and done. It won't be pretty. I'm thinking like the end of 2010, although very unlikely to the same team as Baltimore is going to be in the AFC Champ game at a minimum.

I really can't believe they keep letting Edelman go out there. I know he is the only WR we have who currently knows the entire route tree, but he can't move his left arm. It's insane how much pain he must be living with.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Skinypupy wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:26 pm Watching football with a 6 year old is exhausting.

“Dad, why did they throw that flag?”

“Dad, what’s a touchback?”

“Dad, why did they throw that?”

“Dad, are they allowed to cheat?”

“Dad, why didn’t he score a touchdown there?”

“Dad, what are the playoffs?”

“Dad, aren’t they supposed to tackle him?”

And my favorite:

“Dad, if your team isn’t good, why are they still your team?”

Good question, pal. Good question.
With a 3-year-old it's easy.


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"Baseball fighting!"
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:30 pm
Skinypupy wrote: Sun Dec 01, 2019 6:26 pm Watching football with a 6 year old is exhausting.

“Dad, why did they throw that flag?”

“Dad, what’s a touchback?”

“Dad, why did they throw that?”

“Dad, are they allowed to cheat?”

“Dad, why didn’t he score a touchdown there?”

“Dad, what are the playoffs?”

“Dad, aren’t they supposed to tackle him?”

And my favorite:

“Dad, if your team isn’t good, why are they still your team?”

Good question, pal. Good question.
With a 3-year-old it's easy.


"Hey, buddy, do you know what game this is?"
"Baseball fighting!"
"No...er, close enough, Iittle man."
Fortunately my five year olds spend much of the game trying to identify the teams in the score crawl by their logos and three letter initials. When they actually pay attention I have to try to get them to understand things like first downs (not so much when the Bears are on offense, of course).
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by McNutt »

I put the effort into explaining everything with my sons when they were that age. Actually my youngest didn't ask those questions until a few years later. But now I have two boys (9 and 7) that love watching football with me. Watching a game with them is the best.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by El Guapo »

stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:27 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:02 am I bet stessier is feeling slightly pessimistic about the Patriot's chances this postseason.
One and done. It won't be pretty. I'm thinking like the end of 2010, although very unlikely to the same team as Baltimore is going to be in the AFC Champ game at a minimum.

I really can't believe they keep letting Edelman go out there. I know he is the only WR we have who currently knows the entire route tree, but he can't move his left arm. It's insane how much pain he must be living with.
They do tend to bounce back well from bad losses, at least. And one upshot to having rookies playing prominent roles in the offense is that there's more of a chance of progress from game to game during the season.

Still - Brady has to be texting Kraft every day pleading to bring Antonio Brown back.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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McNutt wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:48 pm I put the effort into explaining everything with my sons when they were that age. Actually my youngest didn't ask those questions until a few years later. But now I have two boys (9 and 7) that love watching football with me. Watching a game with them is the best.
I do explain it to them when they ask, but some of the stuff is difficult to explain on the fly.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Lorini »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:50 pm
stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:27 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:02 am I bet stessier is feeling slightly pessimistic about the Patriot's chances this postseason.
One and done. It won't be pretty. I'm thinking like the end of 2010, although very unlikely to the same team as Baltimore is going to be in the AFC Champ game at a minimum.

I really can't believe they keep letting Edelman go out there. I know he is the only WR we have who currently knows the entire route tree, but he can't move his left arm. It's insane how much pain he must be living with.
They do tend to bounce back well from bad losses, at least. And one upshot to having rookies playing prominent roles in the offense is that there's more of a chance of progress from game to game during the season.

Still - Brady has to be texting Kraft every day pleading to bring Antonio Brown back.
ESPN is floating the idea that age has finally caught up to Brady. Thoughts?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by stessier »

Lorini wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 1:01 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:50 pm
stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 12:27 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 11:02 am I bet stessier is feeling slightly pessimistic about the Patriot's chances this postseason.
One and done. It won't be pretty. I'm thinking like the end of 2010, although very unlikely to the same team as Baltimore is going to be in the AFC Champ game at a minimum.

I really can't believe they keep letting Edelman go out there. I know he is the only WR we have who currently knows the entire route tree, but he can't move his left arm. It's insane how much pain he must be living with.
They do tend to bounce back well from bad losses, at least. And one upshot to having rookies playing prominent roles in the offense is that there's more of a chance of progress from game to game during the season.

Still - Brady has to be texting Kraft every day pleading to bring Antonio Brown back.
ESPN is floating the idea that age has finally caught up to Brady. Thoughts?
I haven't watched the All-22, but it sure didn't seem like it last night. Unless they mean the age of his receivers, then maybe.

He took the most time to throw last night (average 3.25s) in any game this year and still couldn't find anyone open. And that's what it was - his receivers were not getting separation...or were running the wrong routes. Harry (to be fair, a rookie in his third game) got targeted for one pass last night and the DB ran through him to record an INT. Harry has to fight to that spot.



Dorsett either didn't see a route signal, or didn't know what it meant on another play that had Brady throwing to no one. They caught him on the bench later pretty much saying he was done with him.



This is not to say that Brady is blameless. He missed Dorsett in the back of the endzone for a TD with a throw that was WAYYY over his head. And he missed calling out the proper protection for a well disguised corner blitz that lead to an easy sack. He didn't put enough air under a throw to Edelman down the center of the field in double coverage that was almost picked.

But I see that more of him trying to create something from nothing. His throws to the sideline still have plenty of velocity. His touch passes (thinking the back shoulder one to Harry last week, or to White out of the backfield) still are quite accurate. His throw down the seam to LaCosse was a laser and his throw to Edelman early over the middle was put where only he could catch it despite two defenders about to destroy him. He's still moving very well in the pocket - bobbing and weaving to buy time and avoid sacks (where he ducks his head and the defender goes right over him). Heck, he ran for 15 yards like a freakin' gazelle! I think it's just too many new people all at the same time. The annoying part is we'll never know for sure.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by El Guapo »

I mean, Brady's age has to be at least *part of* the problem. Brady's relied less on pure physical gifts than many of his contemporaries (like Manning), but at the same time it's easier to uncork the right throw at 35 than 42, not to mention the difficulty in quickly bouncing back from hits at age 42.

That said, my sense from the broadcast and articles about the game is that the problem was less with Brady and more with the Texans able to double-cover Edelman, and with the other receivers being generally unable to get separation on man-to-man coverage.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by stessier »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:07 pm I mean, Brady's age has to be at least *part of* the problem. Brady's relied less on pure physical gifts than many of his contemporaries (like Manning), but at the same time it's easier to uncork the right throw at 35 than 42, not to mention the difficulty in quickly bouncing back from hits at age 42.
Okay, but this isn't the Manning-esque cliff. If anything, it is a gradual decline. I don't think there is any reason yet to think he couldn't come back next year and still be in a top ten QB in the league.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by El Guapo »

stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:12 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:07 pm I mean, Brady's age has to be at least *part of* the problem. Brady's relied less on pure physical gifts than many of his contemporaries (like Manning), but at the same time it's easier to uncork the right throw at 35 than 42, not to mention the difficulty in quickly bouncing back from hits at age 42.
Okay, but this isn't the Manning-esque cliff. If anything, it is a gradual decline. I don't think there is any reason yet to think he couldn't come back next year and still be in a top ten QB in the league.
I agree. I'm just saying his age probably isn't *helping*, but it doesn't seem to be the decisive factor here.

On a semi-related note, I continue to be baffled by the Patriots essentially cutting Josh Gordon.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by stessier »

El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:30 pm On a semi-related note, I continue to be baffled by the Patriots essentially cutting Josh Gordon.
From the various podcasts and reporting, it seems like he started being late to meetings and exhibiting other "unreliable" behavior. No one has come out and defined that, but from the insiders, it seems like Brady was okay with this one (as opposed to cutting Brown).
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:34 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:30 pm On a semi-related note, I continue to be baffled by the Patriots essentially cutting Josh Gordon.
From the various podcasts and reporting, it seems like he started being late to meetings and exhibiting other "unreliable" behavior. No one has come out and defined that, but from the insiders, it seems like Brady was okay with this one (as opposed to cutting Brown).
Just to make sure I have this right, then: being late to meetings = unacceptable, sexually assaulting and threatening women = acceptable?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Jeff V »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:15 pm
Just to make sure I have this right, then: being late to meetings = unacceptable, sexually assaulting and threatening women = acceptable?
So sayeth the GOAT, therefore it shall be.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by stessier »

Ralph-Wiggum wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 4:15 pm
stessier wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:34 pm
El Guapo wrote: Mon Dec 02, 2019 2:30 pm On a semi-related note, I continue to be baffled by the Patriots essentially cutting Josh Gordon.
From the various podcasts and reporting, it seems like he started being late to meetings and exhibiting other "unreliable" behavior. No one has come out and defined that, but from the insiders, it seems like Brady was okay with this one (as opposed to cutting Brown).
Just to make sure I have this right, then: being late to meetings = unacceptable, sexually assaulting and threatening women = acceptable?
More correctly: poor performance in the building means = unacceptable, good performance in the building = acceptable.
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