NFL 2019 - 20 Season with Playoffs

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Jeff V
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Jeff V »

He can fade into oblivion now. I don't know what he was trying to prove with that stunt, but it cost him a lot of goodwill from supporters who until now agreed he was getting the shaft for sticking up for something he believes in.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by ImLawBoy »

If what I've read is correct, he was trying to make it public. The NFL was not allowing it to be public, so they could all circle the wagons after the workout and say he didn't have the physical talent to play anymore. Since they controlled the venue, they could keep out the public and press. By moving it to a public place, I think he figured his talent would be on display and it would take that talking point away from the NFL. In reality, it just gave the NFL another (lame) excuse to continue blackballing him.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by LordMortis »

Jeff V wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:15 pm He can fade into oblivion now. I don't know what he was trying to prove with that stunt, but it cost him a lot of goodwill from supporters who until now agreed he was getting the shaft for sticking up for something he believes in.
He can do things his way, it just makes it less likely he gets hired. Somewhere along the line when he settled and took on Nike it pivotted to add the Colin brand and getting paid. Everything he does is his prerogative. It sucks for the message which I thought was noble and was constantly staying in the public eye in an age where news never lasts more than two weeks. But how much can you blame someone for wanting to get theirs? He didn't ask to be martyr. Kneeling started as a token, something personal, as far as I know.
Kaepernick wanted to do it his way. The NFL wanted to do it its way.
That sums it up. If you make getting hired about getting hired your way, you need to bring enough to the table to warrant getting hired your way.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Ralph-Wiggum »

The bigger stunt was the NFL which seemingly out of nowhere proclaimed when and where Kaepernick could have a workout. The Saturday workout almost guaranteed that most teams won't be able to send their main scouts (who are at college games) or upper management (who are preparing for a game the next day) and meant Kaepernick didn't have much time to prepare. The NFL also refused to let Kaepernick pick who is was working out with or even allow a non-NFL sanctioned film crew to observe the workout. By all appearances, it seemed like a move by the NFL just so that they could say they gave him a shot. While it likely hurt his chances of getting signed, I don't begrudge Kaepernick for not wanting to bend to every condition placed on him.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 pm The problem with Rivers is he never delivers in the clutch, and now he is becoming an interception machine. I've been saying for years the Chargers need to draft an elite quarterback. Maybe this year's tank will provide a decent draft position.
They picked Ryan Leaf #2 overall IIRC and Eli Manning #1 overall. Neither panned out, although Eli became Rivers.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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LawBeefaroni wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:56 pm
Jaymann wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 2:23 pm The problem with Rivers is he never delivers in the clutch, and now he is becoming an interception machine. I've been saying for years the Chargers need to draft an elite quarterback. Maybe this year's tank will provide a decent draft position.
They picked Ryan Leaf #2 overall IIRC and Eli Manning #1 overall. Neither panned out, although Eli became Rivers.
Didn't they give up some other QB in favor of Rivers, too? Whatever happened to that Drew Brees guy anyway?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by McNutt »

So what did Kaepernick gain by moving the location? He might have been trying to call out the NFL, but how did that help him?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Fretmute »

ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:47 pm If what I've read is correct, he was trying to make it public. The NFL was not allowing it to be public, so they could all circle the wagons after the workout and say he didn't have the physical talent to play anymore. Since they controlled the venue, they could keep out the public and press. By moving it to a public place, I think he figured his talent would be on display and it would take that talking point away from the NFL. In reality, it just gave the NFL another (lame) excuse to continue blackballing him.
For what it's worth, they allegedly wanted to control a whole lot more than that.
Last edited by Fretmute on Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:36 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
Since days have passed, it's becoming safe to assume that he indeed does not have it anymore.
He did it his way, under his own circumstances, and got nada out of it.
This proved he doesn't need the NFL to sabotage his "career". He's done a fine job of that on his own.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stimpy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:35 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
Since days have passed, it's becoming safe to assume that he indeed does not have it anymore.
He did it his way, under his own circumstances, and got nada out of it.
This proved he doesn't need the NFL to sabotage his "career". He's done a fine job of that on his own.
Actually, by all accounts the workout showed he does still have the physical talent to play QB. If he hadn't pulled this "stunt", though, there would be no evidence to prove that, so he'd likely be in at least as bad of a position as he is now.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by stessier »

Yeah, the NFL fumbled this badly. Kind of to be expected, though, given that it was reportedly set up after JayZ met Goodell at a party and said they had to give Kaep a chance.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Jeff V »

LordMortis wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:49 pm
Jeff V wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 5:15 pm He can fade into oblivion now. I don't know what he was trying to prove with that stunt, but it cost him a lot of goodwill from supporters who until now agreed he was getting the shaft for sticking up for something he believes in.
He can do things his way, it just makes it less likely he gets hired. Somewhere along the line when he settled and took on Nike it pivotted to add the Colin brand and getting paid. Everything he does is his prerogative. It sucks for the message which I thought was noble and was constantly staying in the public eye in an age where news never lasts more than two weeks. But how much can you blame someone for wanting to get theirs? He didn't ask to be martyr. Kneeling started as a token, something personal, as far as I know.
Kaepernick wanted to do it his way. The NFL wanted to do it its way.
That sums it up. If you make getting hired about getting hired your way, you need to bring enough to the table to warrant getting hired your way.
See, the thing is, I thought his blacklisting was a pretty serious injustice. Now it seems he just prefers to keep playing the part of martyr, but martyrdom doesn't work that way. I hope it ultimately doesn't reflect badly on the cause he heroically championed.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by El Guapo »

ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:44 pm
stimpy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:35 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
Since days have passed, it's becoming safe to assume that he indeed does not have it anymore.
He did it his way, under his own circumstances, and got nada out of it.
This proved he doesn't need the NFL to sabotage his "career". He's done a fine job of that on his own.
Actually, by all accounts the workout showed he does still have the physical talent to play QB. If he hadn't pulled this "stunt", though, there would be no evidence to prove that, so he'd likely be in at least as bad of a position as he is now.
Moving the workout was probably the right move. If the circumstances and conditions around the workout are accurate, it's hard to explain that as anything other than the NFL giving a token workout that they could use to justify no one signing him. Given that, the NFL's workout was probably worse than worthless. This way he can attract more attention, the public can see him, and it gives him some kind of a shot that one team breaks with the NFL and takes a chance on signing him.

Probably a kobayashi maru situation, but I understand the logic behind moving the workout.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by ImLawBoy »

The biggest downside appears to be that a lot of people are buying the line that Kap screwed himself over here. Kobayashi maru is probably a good analogy, although I do maintain that if he was going to get screwed over either way (and I strongly suspect he was), doing it Kap's way at least has the advantage of taking the "he can't physically play anymore" narrative off the board.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by noxiousdog »

Lorini wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:37 pm All night last night the announcers described him as a future hall of famer. Why? Where is the evidence for that? Yes he’s a decent/good QB but there’s been a lot of decent/good players over the years who are not in the HoF.
I think that's just announcer talk. He's been very good for a long time, but he's not been consistently a top 5 quarterback.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I dunno if OO is always the best judge of NFL HOF talk (see Kurt Warner).
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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The Bears just can't have a good QB. It isn't allowed.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Lorini »

noxiousdog wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 2:16 pm
Lorini wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 1:37 pm All night last night the announcers described him as a future hall of famer. Why? Where is the evidence for that? Yes he’s a decent/good QB but there’s been a lot of decent/good players over the years who are not in the HoF.
I think that's just announcer talk. He's been very good for a long time, but he's not been consistently a top 5 quarterback.
Yeah exactly. Being in the Hall of Fame ought to mean something more than being good.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Jeff V »

Ninyu wrote: Wed Nov 20, 2019 3:16 pm The Bears just can't have a good QB. It isn't allowed.
Sid Luckman is in the HoF, even if his career stats are laughable compared with modern QBs. For the most part though, the franchise is incapable of developing a QB -- if the defense is anything less than total shutdown, they tend not to go far.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Myles Garrett accused Mason Rudolph of using a racial slur against him prior to the helmet swinging brawl starting last week.

Rudolph categorically denies it.

The NFL did not buy the defense, either, as Garrett remains suspended indefinitely.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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pr0ner wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:55 pm Myles Garrett accused Mason Rudolph of using a racial slur against him prior to the helmet swinging brawl starting last week.

Rudolph categorically denies it.

The NFL did not buy the defense, either, as Garrett remains suspended indefinitely.
I don't buy it either...you need to be a Ritchie Incognito-class lunkhead to racially slur someone who might be a future teammate. I can't imagine any current players being outwardly racist...they did not get to where they are today through segregated systems.

It was an unnecessary defense too...not when he could claim his own helmet being pulled as well as an offensive move to the jewels as a trigger for his temporary insanity. Too bad, Fox Pregame Sunday said that Garrett is by all accounts a good guy.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Jeff V wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 9:55 pm
pr0ner wrote: Thu Nov 21, 2019 6:55 pm Myles Garrett accused Mason Rudolph of using a racial slur against him prior to the helmet swinging brawl starting last week.

Rudolph categorically denies it.

The NFL did not buy the defense, either, as Garrett remains suspended indefinitely.
I don't buy it either...you need to be a Ritchie Incognito-class lunkhead to racially slur someone who might be a future teammate. I can't imagine any current players being outwardly racist...they did not get to where they are today through segregated systems.

It was an unnecessary defense too...not when he could claim his own helmet being pulled as well as an offensive move to the jewels as a trigger for his temporary insanity. Too bad, Fox Pregame Sunday said that Garrett is by all accounts a good guy.
Also, if it's that easy to get you off your game into a murderous rage, expect to hear a lot of chatter if you ever play again. I certainly don't condone racist slurs, or any slurs for that matter, but they are an age old tactic in the NFL and one that most players learn to tune out. They wouldn't have put in the rule if it wasn't happening. Hopefully it happens less and eventually never. But it's never an excuse to attempt to cause injury.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by McNutt »

1. I'd be surprised if Rudolph would use that kind of slur on the field where other teammates could hear.
2. Why in the world would Garrett never mention that before now?
3. If he's making that up, then I'd have a hard time letting him back into the the league soon.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Lorini »

Rudolph’s teammates will protect him and in any case being called a racial slur should not cause him to try to beat someone senseless. In my opinion he never should have even mentioned it because it’s not relevant. He has to be in control of himself and he wasn’t. My son was called a racial slur and spat on while riding a bus. Did he get up and slug the guy? No. He kept himself under control and had the guy thrown off the bus. Garrett should have run off the field and reported the slur.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I can't pretend to understand how being called that would trigger a person. Maybe it would be enough to make me snap. If that really happened then it would put Garrett's actions into perspective. But that's a big IF.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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I feel that between all of the parabolic microphones and the random players to which they stick more microphones, everything on that field is a matter of record, insofar as the NFL itself goes.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Lorini wrote: Fri Nov 22, 2019 2:28 pm Rudolph’s teammates will protect him and in any case being called a racial slur should not cause him to try to beat someone senseless. In my opinion he never should have even mentioned it because it’s not relevant. He has to be in control of himself and he wasn’t. My son was called a racial slur and spat on while riding a bus. Did he get up and slug the guy? No. He kept himself under control and had the guy thrown off the bus. Garrett should have run off the field and reported the slur.
It is interesting that none of Garrett's teammates report being told that he was called the slur either. They would seemingly have no reason to protect Rudolph. It seems to me like it would have come up had it happened, but who knows?
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Hrothgar »

Houston Chronicle NFL writer John McClain during last night's game:



Good thing the Texans won. I can only imagine what he would have written after a loss.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stimpy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:35 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
Since days have passed, it's becoming safe to assume that he indeed does not have it anymore.
He did it his way, under his own circumstances, and got nada out of it.
This proved he doesn't need the NFL to sabotage his "career". He's done a fine job of that on his own.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculously uninformed statement.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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ESPN
The NFL fined Pittsburgh Steelers quarterback Mason Rudolph $50,000 -- more than an entire game check -- for his role in last week's fight with Cleveland Browns defensive end Myles Garrett.

Rudolph, in the second year of his rookie deal, has a base salary of $658,267, which means his weekly check is $38,721.59. He has said that he'd accept any discipline from the NFL, but Rudolph can appeal to have the fine reduced under league rules if it is deemed "excessive when compared to the player's expected earnings for the season in question."
...
"For my involvement last week, there's no acceptable excuse," Rudolph said in a prepared statement Wednesday. "The bottom line is I should've done a better job keeping my composure in that situation and [not] fall short of what I believe it means to be a Pittsburgh Steeler and a member of the NFL."
...
Earlier in the week, appeals officer Derrick Brooks reduced the suspension of Steelers center Maurkice Pouncey from three games to two and upheld his $35,096 fine. Pouncey punched and kicked Garrett during the brawl.

Appeals officer James Thrash upheld the indefinite suspension for Garrett and a one-game ban for Browns defensive tackle Larry Ogunjobi, who shoved Rudolph in the back.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by Jeff V »

And the Bears screw the Raiders a little bit by not losing. What an ugly game though.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Jeff V wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 pm And the Bears screw the Raiders a little bit by not losing. What an ugly game though.
Pffft. The Lions lost to the Redskins. Thats ugly at its "finest". I wasn't in favor of firing the current GM/Coach combo until then. Now I just want them gone. Can we please have someone that is capable of building a real team here? Please? I miss the Big Buck.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by McNutt »

Gotta feel bad for the Panthers' kicker. The rookie missed two extra points and a gimme FG in the final minutes against the Saints. The Saints were able to make a quick drive downfield and win with a FG as time expired.

As much as I don't like the Panthers, it hurt to watch someone collapse like that.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Stafford is still out, so I think it's a bit harsh to pin the loss totally on the coach.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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stessier wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:43 pm Stafford is still out, so I think it's a bit harsh to pin the loss totally on the coach.
He was supposed to be a defensive guru. In the past few weeks we have given up multiple TDs and nearly 300yards to Mitch Trubisky (I think it may be obvious how highly is is thought of here) and lost to the Redskins. If you watched the game I felt like the fact the Lions kept it close is a testiment to the fact that Haskins does not belong starting for an NFL team yet. He missed a large number of wide open receivers that would have led to some easy scores. Had he hit them it would have been a blow out. The Lions are, if not the worst, close to the worst D in the NFL. I really wanted Patricia to succeed but now he just needs to go away.

edit to add:
Total defense the Lions rank 29th, scoring tied for 25th, passing 30th, rushing 24th

He needs to go. They both do.
Last edited by Remus West on Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:58 pm, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by naednek »

Niners ate Rodgers for early Thanksgiving dinner. Man what a game.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

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Kurth wrote: Sat Nov 23, 2019 12:52 am
stimpy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:35 pm
ImLawBoy wrote: Tue Nov 19, 2019 6:18 pm The theory is that it helped him display that he still has the physical talent to play the position. If he didn't move the workout, the NFL might have claimed he didn't have it anymore and there would be no available evidence to dispute that.
Since days have passed, it's becoming safe to assume that he indeed does not have it anymore.
He did it his way, under his own circumstances, and got nada out of it.
This proved he doesn't need the NFL to sabotage his "career". He's done a fine job of that on his own.
Sorry, but this is a ridiculously uninformed statement.
Tell that to all 25 NFL teams then.
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Re: NFL 2019 - 20 Season

Post by LawBeefaroni »

Remus West wrote: Mon Nov 25, 2019 2:33 pm
Jeff V wrote: Sun Nov 24, 2019 5:45 pm And the Bears screw the Raiders a little bit by not losing. What an ugly game though.
Pffft. The Lions lost to the Redskins. Thats ugly at its "finest". I wasn't in favor of firing the current GM/Coach combo until then. Now I just want them gone. Can we please have someone that is capable of building a real team here? Please? I miss the Big Buck.
They replaced Caldwell after back to back 9-7 seasons. You knew it was doomed to failure when they signed Patricia the day after he DC'd the Superbowl and was on the losing end of the highest combined yardage total in SB history. The Patriots had the highest losing score ever as well. Perfect Lions move.
Wikipedia wrote:Caldwell's record as Lions coach was 36–28 (.563), making him the first Detroit head coach (who lasted at least one season) to have a winning record since Joe Schmidt, who led the team from 1967 to 1972. Caldwell's .563 winning percentage was the best for a Lions' head coach since Buddy Parker in the 1950s.
11-5, 7-9, 9-7, 9-7. Can't be having that.
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General
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MYT
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