The Thirteenth Doctor

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hepcat
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by hepcat »

Wow, I did not realize that. :shock:
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Kraken »

JCC wrote: Wed Jan 08, 2020 1:41 pm So, I just became aware today that Prime has lost all of its "free for Prime users" Doctor Who content. Warner bought the exclusive rights to stream Doctor Who in the US for their HBO Max streaming service. The problem is that HBO Max isn't coming until May. So, apparently a lot of Prime users are pissed.

Just an FYI for anyone looking for it on Prime and wondering what happened.
Does that mean BBC America won't have it anymore, or just Amazon? I chose YTTV in part because it brings me the Doctor via BBCA.

I'm in the camp that likes Jodi Whittaker well enough, but find the companions so generic that I can't even tell you any of their names. I gather from some of the more recent comments that they'll get better. I hope so. I watched part 1 of the season opener and am unexcited to see part 2. IDK if it's poor scripts or boring companions, but I don't think it's the Doctor's fault that I just can't get into it.

(Footnote: my cable company only had BBCA in standard def, so I'm seeing Dr Who in high def for the first time. Sadly, it doesn't clarify the accents. Much of the dialog is still unintelligible. :lol: )
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by JCC »

No impact to BBCA. It only affects Amazon Prime.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by JCC »

So last night's episode was a total mind fuck! Avoid any entertainment centric news feeds at all costs! In fact, it's best to get off the internet upon reading this until you have watched it.
Last edited by JCC on Mon Jan 27, 2020 3:01 pm, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Kraken »

I'm a couple of episodes behind. Watched "Orphan 55" last night...a (mostly lame) monster-of-the-week story ending in a lecture about the environmental collapse currently in progress. Not one of the Doctor's finer outings.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by JCC »

Kraken wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 12:00 pm I'm a couple of episodes behind. Watched "Orphan 55" last night...a (mostly lame) monster-of-the-week story ending in a lecture about the environmental collapse currently in progress. Not one of the Doctor's finer outings.
By far the worst episode of the season so far.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Wow, I really liked this last episode. I love a good mystery.

However
Spoiler:
Jacks seemed a bit too over the top and manic.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Kraken »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 9:33 pm Wow, I really liked this last episode. I love a good mystery.

However
Spoiler:
Jacks seemed a bit too over the top and manic.
After aimlessly wandering for too long, Dr Who is back, baby. For the first time in ages I'm looking forward to the next episode.
Spoiler:
Guessing that the actor is compensating for having aged visibly since his last appearance. Still fun to see him back.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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On you know who
Spoiler:
I didn’t think he aged at all. He looked exactly the same to me.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by JCC »

hepcat wrote: Mon Jan 27, 2020 11:16 pm On you know who
Spoiler:
I didn’t think he aged at all. He looked exactly the same to me.
I disagree. I thought that was why they used dim light, but I actually think the dim light made you know who look older than you know who normally looks.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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To each their own I guess. I thought they looked just fine. The overacting was just a bit too pronounced, in my opinion.
Spoiler:


Maybe I'm just blind, but I just don't see how he looks much older in this scene. :?

And seeing him makes me a little sad that we didn't get to see him act with Peter Capaldi's Doctor (Peter Capaldi's civil servant character from Children of Earth doesn't count!). I think they would have played off each other quite well. I was also surprised to discover that Jack hasn't appeared in Doctor Who in 10 years. :shock:
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Daveman »

Take out Orphan 55 and to a lesser degree Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror and this has been a much improved season. They certainly seem to have gotten the message last season about the seeming complete reboot and lack of larger overall plot. Maybe a little too much? Already we've got:
Spoiler:
The Master is back!
Gallifrey is destroyed!
Oh yeah, the Master destroyed it because of some unimaginable secret the Time Lords have been hiding!
Passing reference to that "Timeless Child" mentioned once or twice last season!
Judoon are back!
Jack is back!
Mention of the Cybermen!
Oh yeah, there's another version of the Doctor (pre-Hartnell) we all knew nothing about, even the Doctor herself!
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Daveman wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 12:49 pm Take out Orphan 55 and to a lesser degree Nikola Tesla's Night of Terror and this has been a much improved season. They certainly seem to have gotten the message last season about the seeming complete reboot and lack of larger overall plot. Maybe a little too much? Already we've got:
While there was no particular arc we know of with the Tesla episode, I thought that episode was excellent. Even the black sheep of the season (so far) Orphan 55 wasn't awful. Just sort of ho hum.

Spoiler:
Oh yeah, there's another version of the Doctor (pre-Hartnell) we all knew nothing about, even the Doctor herself!
Spoiler:
I think it is very unlikely Dr Ruth is pre-Hartnell. It makes no sense for her TARDIS to look like a Police Box. It is specifically referenced in the first Dr Who story that the Doctor is surprised it doesn't change once they leave the junkyard.

I like some fans' theory that she is between Troughton and Pertwee. Assuming Dr Ruth escaped prior to exile, it might explain her memory being erased too. Again somewhat unlikely given we sort of see the start of Troughton's regeneration (without actually seeing it) and it's hard to see how he or she would have escaped since he just tried and failed. Though it MIGHT be that the Time Lords regenerated Troughton and then sent Dr Ruth on a mission and she then escaped - making her a fugitive. Which means she would have to get caught again - which would be interesting if shown on camera.

It wouldn't shock me if Dr Ruth is from a parallel universe. Not sure what other theory makes sense.

It is kind of odd that we have another heretofore unkown Doctor after the John Hurt one. So, I may even be rooting for an alt universe explanation.

Either way it will be fun to find out!
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I liked the Tesla episode despite a flimsy storyline, but I'm a sucker for episodes that incorporate historical figures. Thought they got the Tesla/Edison relationship right, to the small extent that I know about it.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Kelric »

Spoiler:
A platoon of Judoon by the mo.... lagoon.

The War Doctor specifically asked those cultists to make him a soldier, so there is some control over a regeneration. IIRC Tennant/Smith's Doctor got the Lords of Gallifrey to grant him regenerations. I feel like they can explain this Doctor away by some sort of extra Gallifrean granted regens, or they get into parallel universes since the bad guys that took Missy/The Master were from a different universe.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by JCC »

Kelric,

Showrunner Chris Chibnall has gone on record saying...
Spoiler:
Dr Ruth is NOT from a parallel universe.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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hepcat wrote: Tue Jan 28, 2020 10:09 am To each their own I guess. I thought they looked just fine. The overacting was just a bit too pronounced, in my opinion.
Spoiler:


Maybe I'm just blind, but I just don't see how he looks much older in this scene. :?

And seeing him makes me a little sad that we didn't get to see him act with Peter Capaldi's Doctor (Peter Capaldi's civil servant character from Children of Earth doesn't count!). I think they would have played off each other quite well. I was also surprised to discover that Jack hasn't appeared in Doctor Who in 10 years. :shock:
Spoiler:
I’m thinking that they used dealing tech or are real good with makeup, since he looks younger here then in his stint as Malcolm Merlin on Arrow. (although to be fair, he still looked very good there)
And it does not seem like it’s been 10 years without him.
I really like this actor and wish Torchwood was still on.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Torchwood seasons 1 and 2 were very disappointing in my opinion. But the miniseries, Children of Earth, was fantastic. The last season was so so.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:55 am Torchwood seasons 1 and 2 were very disappointing in my opinion. But the miniseries, Children of Earth, was fantastic. The last season was so so.
Torchwood Season 3: Children of Earth is in my opinion, the best television ever filmed.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Jaymon wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 4:18 pm
hepcat wrote: Mon Feb 03, 2020 10:55 am Torchwood seasons 1 and 2 were very disappointing in my opinion. But the miniseries, Children of Earth, was fantastic. The last season was so so.
Torchwood Season 3: Children of Earth is in my opinion, the best television ever filmed.
I don't know if I'd be able to agree with 100% certainty, but it's really, really, really, close. That was some fantastic television.

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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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We just got caught up again last night. The two most recent episodes were on the weak side. Really not liking the preachy environmental stories.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Smoove_B »

I am still watching, but overall I'm not really enjoying it. I'd watch Jodie Whittaker read from a telephone book (her thick accent is the best), so that's probably the only reason I'm watching at this point. :(
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I think this season is MUCH better than Jodie's debut season. Really only the Orphan 55 one was less than good or better for me. Much happier with Chibnall run Doctor Who now.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Smoove_B wrote: Thu Feb 13, 2020 7:29 pm I am still watching, but overall I'm not really enjoying it. I'd watch Jodie Whittaker read from a telephone book (her thick accent is the best), so that's probably the only reason I'm watching at this point. :(
Wife said she thinks Whittaker is a really good Doctor; I said it's hard to tell with the scripts she gets. I feel like she's still trying too hard -- too manic, too much mugging. I don't dislike her...I just don't think she's made the role her own. Unless frantic mugging is what's hers, in which case I don't like her.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Even just 20 percent more Michelle Gomez would fix things right up.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Has anyone else been seeing articles about the show being "too PC and preachy" and that has been causing the ratings to plunge? I have and I can't help but agree to a large extent. Comments like this are common:
The drum for a female Doctor began beating a few years ago and the BBC finally bowed to the pressure being brought by a pretty small group of people. Jody Whitaker was cast as The Doctor. Yaaayyy!! Right? I have no problem with a female Doctor, and I have enjoyed Whitaker’s acting in past roles; she was particularly brilliant in Broadchurch. The irony is that just as a woman takes over one of the most iconic roles in television history, Doctor Who stopped being a science fiction show and morphed into a preachy, SJW talking-point-of-the-week train wreck. I have never watched Doctor Who to be preached to, but rather to gain some escape from all the crap that we are deluged with daily. The powers behind Who have now taken that from me, and I no longer watch the show. I welcome Jody Whitaker, but will not watch the show until it becomes Doctor Who again.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Doctor Who and Sci-Fi in general have always had "messages" in them. I certainly agree there has been a lot of it in this season. One of my work friends has also complained about this.

People are welcome to like or not like whatever they want. I remain happy that this season has (IMO) much better stories overall and thankfully a story arc unlike last season.

When Jodie leaves, I will be very interested to see who they cast next. If it's a white male, I assume many fans of diversity will be pissed. If it's not a white male, I assume many of the fans making the current complaints about too many political messages in DW will be upset.

No matter what, there will always be DW fans upset. That is a unversal truth. :)
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I don't mind stories with morals. It's just that the two that bludgeoned us with them this season weren't very good stories in the first place. It also bugs me when the multiracial companions travel back centuries without meeting any prejudice -- sometimes they do, but usually they don't. Who knew the 17th century was colorblind?
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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JCC wrote: Sun Feb 16, 2020 9:14 am No matter what, there will always be DW fans upset. That is a unversal truth. :)
True. And at least the most recent episode 'Can You Hear Me?' didn't fit that mold. And as noted, while I don't mind stories with morals, they really did manage to wield them with a heavy hand.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I certainly don't disagree that the political/moral messages have been heavy handed at times. I am merely saying this isn't unique to new Doctor Who. The Green Death, Spearhead from Space, The Silurians, etc. all had very heavy handed political messages back in the '70's.

I still think this season has been of much better quality. Orphan 55 is the only fair to weak episode in my mind, and while the political message was heavy handed at the end, it's not really the reason I think it's the weakest episode.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Another winner this week! Can't wait for the big two part finale!
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I had some troubles with this one. Not the plot.
There were a number of character who looked and dressed in a similar fashion, and then they turned off the lights, and I really couldn't tell who was who for much of the episode.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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What the fudge was all that nonsense in the season finale? The number of plot holes they created with this ridiculous change to the Doctor is ...well...ridiculous.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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I liked the episode and thought this season was light years better than the previous one. I am not sure how I feel about the revelations from the finale. I am thinking I have some issues with it, but it doesn't bother me too much. The revelations still do not adequately explain "Dr Ruth" to me but maybe that will come later...
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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Things I liked about season 12:

1) Sacha Dhawan's Master. He's no Michelle Gomez (let's face facts, someone that damn good comes along rarely), but he did a great job of portraying what I like to call a "tragically mad" Master. You could see the regret in his eyes from time to time over what he does and what he's lost, but it was always quickly overtaken by his obvious joy in simply being able to wreak so much destruction.

2) Bradley Walsh's Graham. He would make a great doctor. It looks like he's leaving the show, along with Ryan, after the next Christmas special though.

3) Jodie Whitaker's Doctor has slowly grown on me. At first I was afraid they'd make the gender change the driving force for her sojourn. But they treated it exactly the way I had hoped: by making it just a fact of life. Any other approach would have felt condescending in my opinion.

Things I didn't like about season 12:

1) Most of the stories were just not up to par. I did enjoy a few though. The Tesla tale, for example.

2) The complete retcon of the Doctor. Seriously, this is utter crap. It's like announcing that Bruce Wayne has actually been a Kryptonian this entire time. The number of plot holes this creates is enormous. I really, really hope they explain it away in season 13 and get back to concentrating on good stories instead of sensationalist story arcs that make no damn sense.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Punisher »

As someone who has just started watching with the new series in general, what kind of plot holes? I can't really think of any.

I also suspect that the old guy/general will turn out to be the doctor as well. I just kept waiting for that reveal.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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This article lists quite a few.

It just doesn't work for me. There was no need to radically change the character's history. I mean, the character ALREADY has a built in dynamic for change with regeneration. Each new actor brings something new to the table.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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(Not really worrying about spoilers here, so skip over this if you haven't caught up...)


I think a lot (not all) of those plot holes in that article are weak and easily explained away. But, I also don't really approve of the retcon. The biggest explanation I want is the first plot hole in that article. How does Dr Ruth's TARDIS look like a Police Box? I really hope Chibs addresses this. The fan theory of between Troughton and Pertwee is plausible especially with the Division able to erase memories. If they could just erase the Doc's memories of being Dr Ruth, that could work.

The retcon DOES however fill a plot hole in the Brain of Morbius - not that I was that worked up over it. I guess this also removes the half human shit from the 8th Doctor movie.

I still liked the story and the season was great. But no, I can't say I am enthused about the retcon. The addition of the Division though, I find much more interesting.

Maybe the next showrunner can retcon the retcon! :)
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

Post by Punisher »

I agree with JCC, It's currently 6:30AM so I don't have the energy to go through the list right now, but I have a question about Ruth, that could fix a few of those off the bat.

Has it been CONFIRMED, that Ruth is from the past? What if Ruth is a future regeneration of the Doctor?
Maybe she DOES know the current Doctor and is just hiding it?
Maybe at some point, the doctor's mind gets wiped again and Ruth is from the future and doesn't remember her?
Maybe there is just some timey whimey explanation we will get later.
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Re: The Thirteenth Doctor

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JCC wrote: Sat Mar 07, 2020 2:16 pm The addition of the Division though, I find much more interesting.
Oh, you mean section 31? :P
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