Educators in the Volunteer State are very concerned that students might be offended by the usage of traditional pronouns like she, he, him and hers, according to a document from the University of Tennessee – Knoxville’s Office of Diversity and Inclusion.
“There are dozens of gender-neutral pronouns,” she declared.
For all you folks who went to school back when there were only him and her – here’s a primer: some of the new gender neutral pronouns are ze, hir, zir, xe, xem and xyr.
“These may sound a little funny at first, but only because they are new,” Braquet explained. “The ‘she’ and ‘he’ pronouns would sound strange too if we had been taught ‘ze’ when growing up.”
Somehow I sincerely doubt that, but whatever. Anything goes for the sake of inclusivity, right?
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Rip prefers to identify as I, so in the future when insulting Rip please use I in every place you would have been used.
kthx.
Yo is not a shortened version of You. It's a gender neutral pronoun.
"I hate Donnie because yo called me this week and yo said that I was lame."
Or even better: "Yo needs to tell yo that yo doesn't like yo anymore."
" Hey OP, listen to my advice alright." -Tha General "No scientific discovery is named after its original discoverer." -Stigler's Law of Eponymy, discovered by Robert K. Merton MYT
Apparently, there aren't many pronouns in Taglog, and that seems to be something my wife (and other Filipinos I know) constantly trip over. My wife uses he and she, his and her interchangeably -- which leads to amusing confusion at times.
Honestly, other than the fact that it pokes some people's grammar buttons, there is nothing wrong with using they/them in any situation where you're speaking generically. Easy, inclusive, nobody needs to bitch that you're just making words up.
The whole idea of custom pronouns is extremely Anglocentric. It also doesn't work well in languages where inanimate objects are gendered, for example.
To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?
Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?
Jeff V wrote:Apparently, there aren't many pronouns in Taglog, and that seems to be something my wife (and other Filipinos I know) constantly trip over. My wife uses he and she, his and her interchangeably -- which leads to amusing confusion at times.
As silverjon mentions, all nouns in French are gendered and how you refer to them differs depending on that gender. The French must be looking at this and rolling their eyes in an epic fashion.
silverjon wrote:Honestly, other than the fact that it pokes some people's grammar buttons, there is nothing wrong with using they/them in any situation where you're speaking generically. Easy, inclusive, nobody needs to bitch that you're just making words up.
I just changed some "their" to "his or her" in a document I'm marking up.
silverjon wrote:Honestly, other than the fact that it pokes some people's grammar buttons, there is nothing wrong with using they/them in any situation where you're speaking generically. Easy, inclusive, nobody needs to bitch that you're just making words up.
I just changed some "their" to "his or her" in a document I'm marking up.
I still prefer using "it's" when referring to children.
Met someone a few years ago with [Gender Specific] name. They asked if I could please call them [Gender Neutral] name instead. I took note and went about my day. We interacted weekly for 3+ months and that was that. Months later I found out this person was in the process of gender transition because they contacted me and thanked me profusely for honoring their request to use a different name.
It wasn't a big deal to me but apparently it was a big deal for them. I don't see what the issue is here. If you tell me to refer to you a certain way and I refuse and use something else you specifically said I should not, I'm being a giant wanker. This isn't about judgement or morality or acceptance. It's about being a human being.
silverjon wrote:Honestly, other than the fact that it pokes some people's grammar buttons, there is nothing wrong with using they/them in any situation where you're speaking generically. Easy, inclusive, nobody needs to bitch that you're just making words up.
I just changed some "their" to "his or her" in a document I'm marking up.
I still prefer using "it's" when referring to children.
Hopefully you mean "its". Because I am not sure what an "it is" is.?!?!
silverjon wrote:Honestly, other than the fact that it pokes some people's grammar buttons, there is nothing wrong with using they/them in any situation where you're speaking generically. Easy, inclusive, nobody needs to bitch that you're just making words up.
I just changed some "their" to "his or her" in a document I'm marking up.
I still prefer using "it's" when referring to children.
Hopefully you mean "its". Because I am not sure what an "it is" is.?!?!
Did anybody actually read the document the 'news' story linked to? It has absolutely nothing to do with what the news story was about. They took a paragraph out of the middle and reported it as something completely different.
All the original document said was to use the pronoun that a person prefers, preferably by asking them.
It then mentioned that neutral pronouns exist (the text quoted in the story and original post), presumably so nobody would be surprised when someone used one. That's it. They exist.
Smoove_B wrote:Met someone a few years ago with [Gender Specific] name. They asked if I could please call them [Gender Neutral] name instead. I took note and went about my day. We interacted weekly for 3+ months and that was that. Months later I found out this person was in the process of gender transition because they contacted me and thanked me profusely for honoring their request to use a different name.
It wasn't a big deal to me but apparently it was a big deal for them. I don't see what the issue is here. If you tell me to refer to you a certain way and I refuse and use something else you specifically said I should not, I'm being a giant wanker. This isn't about judgement or morality or acceptance. It's about being a human being.
This, plus a million. Why is it so hard for people? I genuinely don't get it.
Black Lives Matter. No human is illegal. Women's rights are human rights. Love is love. Science is real. Kindness is everything.
There's been talk of similar additions to the Norwegian language recently, though they come off as a little more sensible than the suggestions in the article above.
The Norwegian word for "he" is "han", while the word for "she" is "henne". The gender neutral variant would be "hen", which makes a lot of sense. I don't think it's an official part of the language yet, but I don't think there would be much resistance to the concept either.
Smoove_B wrote:Met someone a few years ago with [Gender Specific] name. They asked if I could please call them [Gender Neutral] name instead. I took note and went about my day. We interacted weekly for 3+ months and that was that. Months later I found out this person was in the process of gender transition because they contacted me and thanked me profusely for honoring their request to use a different name.
It wasn't a big deal to me but apparently it was a big deal for them. I don't see what the issue is here. If you tell me to refer to you a certain way and I refuse and use something else you specifically said I should not, I'm being a giant wanker. This isn't about judgement or morality or acceptance. It's about being a human being.
The debate about this kind of thing tends to get muddled with minutia, but you nailed the only part that's truly important here: Don't be a dick. Other people deserve to be treated like human beings.
TiLT wrote:There's been talk of similar additions to the Norwegian language recently, though they come off as a little more sensible than the suggestions in the article above.
The Norwegian word for "he" is "han", while the word for "she" is "henne". The gender neutral variant would be "hen", which makes a lot of sense. I don't think it's an official part of the language yet, but I don't think there would be much resistance to the concept either.
Smoove_B wrote:Met someone a few years ago with [Gender Specific] name. They asked if I could please call them [Gender Neutral] name instead. I took note and went about my day. We interacted weekly for 3+ months and that was that. Months later I found out this person was in the process of gender transition because they contacted me and thanked me profusely for honoring their request to use a different name.
It wasn't a big deal to me but apparently it was a big deal for them. I don't see what the issue is here. If you tell me to refer to you a certain way and I refuse and use something else you specifically said I should not, I'm being a giant wanker. This isn't about judgement or morality or acceptance. It's about being a human being.
The debate about this kind of thing tends to get muddled with minutia, but you nailed the only part that's truly important here: Don't be a dick. Other people deserve to be treated like human beings.
Awesome. Then when I say something about cackling hens no one can say I am being sexist......
TiLT wrote:There's been talk of similar additions to the Norwegian language recently, though they come off as a little more sensible than the suggestions in the article above.
The Norwegian word for "he" is "han", while the word for "she" is "henne". The gender neutral variant would be "hen", which makes a lot of sense. I don't think it's an official part of the language yet, but I don't think there would be much resistance to the concept either.
Smoove_B wrote:Met someone a few years ago with [Gender Specific] name. They asked if I could please call them [Gender Neutral] name instead. I took note and went about my day. We interacted weekly for 3+ months and that was that. Months later I found out this person was in the process of gender transition because they contacted me and thanked me profusely for honoring their request to use a different name.
It wasn't a big deal to me but apparently it was a big deal for them. I don't see what the issue is here. If you tell me to refer to you a certain way and I refuse and use something else you specifically said I should not, I'm being a giant wanker. This isn't about judgement or morality or acceptance. It's about being a human being.
The debate about this kind of thing tends to get muddled with minutia, but you nailed the only part that's truly important here: Don't be a dick. Other people deserve to be treated like human beings.
Awesome. Then when I say something about cackling hens no one can say I am being sexist......
"Cackling hens" actually translates directly to Norwegian as "kaklende høner" and means the exact same thing in all meanings of the phrase. The word "hen" isn't used in a way that could cause confusion in Norwegian, but yeah, I was prepared for a reply like yours.
The English "hen" means "høne" in Norwegian, and is often part of slang when used in dialect to refer to women in a very sexual (and ironically derogatory, typically used as a joke because of the word's inherent silliness) way.
Jeff V wrote:Apparently, there aren't many pronouns in Taglog, and that seems to be something my wife (and other Filipinos I know) constantly trip over. My wife uses he and she, his and her interchangeably -- which leads to amusing confusion at times.
As silverjon mentions, all nouns in French are gendered and how you refer to them differs depending on that gender. The French must be looking at this and rolling their eyes in an epic fashion.
A with Spanish and, I presume, Italian.
Interestingly, as I understand it, "vagina" is a male-gendered noun in French, while "mustache" is female-gendered.
I don't believe in uprooting language for the sake of possibly offending a minute fraction of the population. I'm so tired of the "you offend me, she offends me, I can't say that or I might offend someone" culture of today. People need to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of kids on a schoolground running to tell teacher every time their feelings get hurt.
YellowKing wrote:I don't believe in uprooting language for the sake of possibly offending a minute fraction of the population. I'm so tired of the "you offend me, she offends me, I can't say that or I might offend someone" culture of today. People need to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of kids on a schoolground running to tell teacher every time their feelings get hurt.
The Atlantic gets it right, as they so often seem to recently.
YellowKing wrote:I don't believe in uprooting language for the sake of possibly offending a minute fraction of the population. I'm so tired of the "you offend me, she offends me, I can't say that or I might offend someone" culture of today. People need to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of kids on a schoolground running to tell teacher every time their feelings get hurt.
The Atlantic gets it right, as they so often seem to recently.
Excellent article, I'm so tired of this crap. The real life examples are horrifying. We're raising a nation of pansies. Oops, I may have micro-aggressed with that comment!
Last edited by Grifman on Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:21 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
YellowKing wrote:I don't believe in uprooting language for the sake of possibly offending a minute fraction of the population. I'm so tired of the "you offend me, she offends me, I can't say that or I might offend someone" culture of today. People need to grow up and stop acting like a bunch of kids on a schoolground running to tell teacher every time their feelings get hurt.
The Atlantic gets it right, as they so often seem to recently.
People realize there's a difference between what The Atlantic article is about and having someone tell you, "Please call me Caitlyn" and you reply, "Yeah, whatever Bruce" ,right?
I feel the need to point out that doing things like marking threads NSFSmoove is posting a trigger warning.
Different in social media than post-secondary curriculum, sure, but it's something we do as a courtesy for people we are intentionally trying to not hurt or upset, because we give a damn.
I didn't read the entire article, because I do agree that going to school is a place for learning critical thinking, including about things we find upsetting. But I don't dismiss the idea of trigger warnings out of hand, because I think they're very much applicable to things like goofing around on the internet, where you should be able to choose your moments for confronting your horrors, rather than having them thrust on you.
To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?
Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?
Smoove_B wrote:People realize there's a difference between what The Atlantic article is about and having someone tell you, "Please call me Caitlyn" and you reply, "Yeah, whatever Bruce" ,right?
Please realize that we realize this
And the original post wasn't about personal gender preference either
Last edited by Grifman on Sat Aug 29, 2015 7:58 am, edited 1 time in total.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
silverjon wrote: But I don't dismiss the idea of trigger warnings out of hand, because I think they're very much applicable to things like goofing around on the internet, where you should be able to choose your moments for confronting your horrors, rather than having them thrust on you.
If you are worried about what you might see on the internet, then maybe you just need to be more selective about what sites you personally "goof around on". I think people in general should talk sensitively about any number of issues, but I shouldn't have to worry about getting someone upset by just mentioning a term that might upset them. There were examples in The Atlantic article about terms that were mentioned neutrally or even in ways that stated or implied non-acceptance or that the term or action was bad, that got people upset. If people can't talk about rape, or the KKK because someone gets upset, how can we fight such things. That's ridiculous.
Tolerance is the virtue of the man without convictions. – G.K. Chesterton
Look, on a site like this one, if someone posts, "hey check out this cool video (Smoove, it has tentacles)"... that *is* a trigger warning, whether or not you're in favour of calling it such.
That's an example on a very personal level.
I don't know how much I need to explain about how certain social media sites or fandom work. If media is tagged with #myfavoritetvshow, and sometimes #myfavoritetvshow contains themes of rape, considerate tagging allows a viewer to choose whether or not they feel like dealing with that at a given moment. You also probably shouldn't be presented with gif sets of the rape scene if what you pulled up was #erotic.
I suppose another parallel is the idea of driveby NSFWing of a thread. OO is generally SFW reading. When somebody crosses that, it goes against expectations for what you're going to see *on OO*. As long as the tags are present, people get to make their own choices about whether or not it's a good time to view specific content, or go back to it later, or not at all.
To be fair, adolescent power fantasy tripe is way easier to write than absurd existential horror, and every community has got to start somewhere... right?
Unless one loses a precious thing, he will never know its true value. A little light finally scratches the darkness; it lets the exhausted one face his shattered dream and realize his path cannot be walked. Can man live happily without embracing his wounded heart?
