[Movie]Captain America - Civil War (AKA Avengers 2.5)

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:00 am

Ok, this is shaping up more like another Avengers movie than anything else. All announced characters so far:

Captain America
Ironman
Falcon
Hawkeye
Black Widow
Antman
Vision
Winter Soldier
War Machine
Scarlett Witch
Black Panther
Sharon Carter/Agent 13
Spiderman

http://www.thewrap.com/paul-rudd-paul-b ... civil-war/

That's kind of good and kind of bad. It's always exciting to see everyone in action but I really liked Evans in Winter Soldier and his story arc (side note - I think this was the best Marvel flick). I'd really like a movie focused on Cap given Evan's portrayal but I don't see that happening with all of the above. You're going to have to split time between both camps and then split the time even more between heroes (though some may be nothing more than cameos). They really need to get a good script for this or else it will be a mess.

This could be the most interesting or the most disastrous Marvel movie yet.

AWS260 · Post by **AWS260** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:08 am

Grifman wrote:This could be the most interesting or the most disastrous Marvel movie yet.

That sounds about right.

I really enjoyed Age of Ultron, but it was straining at the seams with so many characters and story beats. Civil War could be much worse.

The best solution might be to handle it like comic books often do -- shove most of the characters into the background with just a line or two, so that they can be there for the big fights but don't get in the way of the story. That could lead to a lot of irritated actors, though.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:13 am

Every single character on there has an established character. There won't have to be any origin stories. And Marvel has no problem stretching these beyond 2 hours to get all the goodies in there.

dbt1949 · Post by **dbt1949** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:18 am

You really like the Black Widow don't you.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:20 am

dbt1949 wrote:You really like the Black Widow don't you.

Heh

Fixed! But yes, I like her Golden Globes!

GargoyleBoy · Post by **GargoyleBoy** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:20 am

Isgrimnur wrote:Every single character on there has an established character. There won't have to be any origin stories. And Marvel has no problem stretching these beyond 2 hours to get all the goodies in there.

Black Panther's not established - he doesn't get his own movie until 2018.

That said, they haven't done origin stories for a lot of characters. Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch for examples. They've realized that origin stories for non-central characters are unnecessary, really.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:21 am

He wants to be Black Widows to be the bread in his Hawkeye sandwich.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:23 am

GargoyleBoy wrote:
Isgrimnur wrote:Every single character on there has an established character. There won't have to be any origin stories. And Marvel has no problem stretching these beyond 2 hours to get all the goodies in there.

Black Panther's not established - he doesn't get his own movie until 2018.

That said, they haven't done origin stories for a lot of characters. Hawkeye, Quicksilver, and Scarlet Witch for examples. They've realized that origin stories for non-central characters are unnecessary, really.

True, I missed him. But yeah, we don't need thirty minutes of BW's ballet lessons and her Ender's Game fights in the locker room.

Renner could hold his own in a Hawkeye movie if they made one. If they can work it in between his Mission: Impossible and Bourne movies.

stessier · Post by **stessier** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:30 am

A Marvel disaster is still 100x more interesting than most other stuff out there these days.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:36 am

Eck, forgot Spiderman is supposed to be in this also, though the actor has not yet been announced. Edited!

Blackhawk · Post by **Blackhawk** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:45 am

Just because they are 'in' the film doesn't mean that they have story roles. They could just be long cameos in a big battle sequence.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:52 am

I have a bad feeling that this will be Marvels first flop in years. Mind you, my only exposure to it is from the Wiki articles but it doesn’t sound like a story that will work as a movie unless they change pretty much everything.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:53 am

The war has begun!

https://twitter.com/ChrisEvans/status/5 ... 4510066689

YellowKing · Post by **YellowKing** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:59 am

I'm afraid I'm starting to reach the saturation point with Marvel. Their movies are starting to get really "same-y." I enjoy them, but I don't excitedly look forward to them, if that makes any sense.

If I'm being brutally honest, the only two Marvel movies I absolutely LOVED were Iron Man 1 and Guardians of the Galaxy. The rest were just entertaining popcorn fare.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Fri May 08, 2015 8:18 pm

Lordnine wrote:I have a bad feeling that this will be Marvels first flop in years. Mind you, my only exposure to it is from the Wiki articles but it doesn’t sound like a story that will work as a movie unless they change pretty much everything.

That's a bit pessimistic given Marvel's track record.

hepcat · Post by **hepcat** » Fri May 08, 2015 8:25 pm

I'm not sure why it sounds like a flop. It's got a decent story behind it, and a lot of great characters. I would think the recipe for this one is about as good as it gets.

Odin · Post by **Odin** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:15 pm

Marvel's done just fine by me so far. Even the lowest of the MCU films (Hulk and the two Thors, IMHO) are sufficiently entertaining that I've watched them repeatedly and enjoyed them. I'll give them the benefit of the doubt and then some until such time as they put a genuine piece of garbage up on the screen. I'm optimistic that they're smart enough to avoid that trap.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:44 pm

Yeah, in my mind Civil War needs a buttload of characters to side with either Tony or Cap. It will be interesting to see how those folks line up.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:54 pm

YellowKing wrote:I'm afraid I'm starting to reach the saturation point with Marvel. Their movies are starting to get really "same-y." I enjoy them, but I don't excitedly look forward to them, if that makes any sense.

If I'm being brutally honest, the only two Marvel movies I absolutely LOVED were Iron Man 1 and Guardians of the Galaxy. The rest were just entertaining popcorn fare.

Same here, pretty much.

With the exception of Guardians, I've found all the Marvel movies fun. But I've walked out of most of them feeling hollow. I realized after seeing Ultron that I really like all the characters, but I just don't care about them. I love watching RDJ, but that's because he's RDJ. I'd watch him in anything. I was close to becoming emotionally invested in the Black Widow/Hulk relationship, but that kind of came out of nowhere and was just one of a dozen other threads.

While I'm happy Marvel hasn't tried to duplicate the tone or style of Nolan's Batman trilogy, I've still failed to find any of their films as engaging or meaningful. And I guess it's OK for them to just be good popcorn movies. It just seems like their efforts to build a strong and cohesive shared universe is holding back the individual characters' stories. Perhaps you can't have it both ways.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Fri May 08, 2015 10:59 pm

hentzau wrote:Yeah, in my mind Civil War needs a buttload of characters to side with either Tony or Cap. It will be interesting to see how those folks line up.

I appreciate the way they inserted Falcon and War Machine, for example, into Ultron. I can see similar being successful in Civil War. But wouldn't Civil War have been better as a standalone movie after the conclusion of this Avengers arc? I guess they have to get the most out of this generation of actors while they can.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat May 09, 2015 12:03 am

Sudy Nym wrote:While I'm happy Marvel hasn't tried to duplicate the tone or style of Nolan's Batman trilogy, I've still failed to find any of their films as engaging or meaningful.

Nolan's movies were dark but I don't know if they were meaningful. No super hero movie has been as meaningful as Winter Soldier, which questioned the limits of surveillance technology and how power can be abused by those claiming to protect us. It is especially relevant in today's world with Snowden's revelations about NSA snooping.

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:29 am

Grifman wrote:
Lordnine wrote:I have a bad feeling that this will be Marvels first flop in years. Mind you, my only exposure to it is from the Wiki articles but it doesn’t sound like a story that will work as a movie unless they change pretty much everything.
That's a bit pessimistic given Marvel's track record.

It’s really the tonal shift that I think will be the downfall. The general public doesn’t want to see the silly fun characters they’ve come to know in a serious fight with each other in which they might actually get each other killed. Up to this point, Marvel has mostly stuck to very light hearted movies.

Winter Soldier and Daredevil (Netflix) both stepped away from this but they both did it by distancing themselves from the more fantastical elements of the Marvel universe. Daredevil in particular worked because aside from a few in jokes, was completely removed from the rest of the universe. A dark and serious villain like the Kingpin doesn’t work in a universe in which a god can fly up to him and smash him with a magic hammer. Unless of course you are already a comic book fanatic, which I don’t think makes up a very large portion of the demographic of the marvel movies.

killbot737 · Post by **killbot737** » Sat May 09, 2015 6:32 pm

I think AntMan is going to be an awful flop, and the pundits will bemoan the streak of Marvel movie successes, and then everyone will flock to the next good movie - Cap 3, Avengers 3, whatever.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat May 09, 2015 7:27 pm

It's a long time between Ant-Man and Phase 3 to have that be the last one stuck in people's minds.

Sudy · Post by **Sudy** » Sat May 09, 2015 11:03 pm

Grifman wrote:Nolan's movies were dark but I don't know if they were meaningful.

I found them personally and artistically meaningful. Thematically or philosophically meaningful I'd have to think about.

I didn't like the plot of Winter Soldier as much as I as hoping to because I'm just bloody tired of S.H.I.E.L.D., Samuel L. Jackson, and those stupid flying carriers. As much as I like the shared universe, I'm more interested in seeing the characters delve into their own personal mythologies. I think both Thor films really did a good job of that, even if they weren't the best stories.

Now that it occurs to me though, I think the 2nd Thor was better than I gave it credit for at the time. My memories of it have sweetened. I should give it another watch and see if it's grown on me.

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 12:31 am

The side are revealed:

Spoiler:

Doomboy · Post by **Doomboy** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:10 pm

There are two people I don't recognize. The blond on Cap's team, and flat top on Jerkman's team.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 1:15 pm

Doomboy wrote:flat top on Jerkman's team

4th from the left?

Spoiler:

Doomboy · Post by **Doomboy** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 2:34 pm

Ah. Yeah, that is weird.

Spoiler:

Lordnine · Post by **Lordnine** » Sat Aug 29, 2015 3:24 pm

Uhhh, so...

Android Superman and two men in suits that allow them to stand up to demigods

Versus

One super soldier and a dude with a bow and arrow…

I hope Captain America brought plot armor!

DD* · Post by DD* » Sat Aug 29, 2015 11:00 pm

Lordnine wrote:Uhhh, so...

Android Superman and two men in suits that allow them to stand up to demigods

Versus

One super soldier and a dude with a bow and arrow…

I hope Captain America brought plot armor!

I do remember Thor being seriously pissed at IM in the Ultron movie. Perhaps a brief appearance to even the odds? Thor can whip pretty much anyone in the MCU's ass, with the exception of Hulk.

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 9:13 am

DD* wrote:
Lordnine wrote:Uhhh, so...

Android Superman and two men in suits that allow them to stand up to demigods

Versus

One super soldier and a dude with a bow and arrow…

I hope Captain America brought plot armor!
I do remember Thor being seriously pissed at IM in the Ultron movie. Perhaps a brief appearance to even the odds? Thor can whip pretty much anyone in the MCU's ass, with the exception of Hulk.

Thor's going to be off fighting in Ragnarok, so I don't see him showing up for this little donnybrook. (Besides, he isn't in the cast list.)

I was pretty stoked to see Sharon Carter featured pretty prominently in the lineup. Another shout out to old school '70s Marvel.

And I was thinking, if Hawkeye has any EMP arrows, that could pretty much mess up Team Iron Man's day.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:23 pm

Is Spiderman still showing up in this little shin dig?

And I actually like these movies, the wife will go to see them with me, and she hates comics, but she likes the fast pace of the movies(And I think she just likes to go out to movies with me. )

I actually read all the Civil War comics, and there is a ton of dark/depth to the comics, and the movie will gloss over some of the overtones, but that is fine as I don't really need that level of darkness in a popcorn flick.

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:25 pm

We won't get to see the Wolverine aspect of the story, so there won't likely be an overarching conspiracy about the cause of the triggering event.

Scuzz · Post by **Scuzz** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:27 pm

Hawkeye and Black Widow have pretty much shown themselves to be best friends, yet they end up fighting each other?

Isgrimnur · Post by **Isgrimnur** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:29 pm

Given BW's show at the end of CA: TWS, there's going to have to be some excellent writing to show why she ends up on the other side.

RMC · Post by **RMC** » Mon Aug 31, 2015 12:34 pm

Yeah the friends fighting friends was a big theme in the comics.. And true lots of missing players from the comics...

Grifman · Post by **Grifman** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:19 am

New trailer:

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uVdV-lxRPFo

hentzau · Post by **hentzau** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:35 am

#TeamCap

IceBear · Post by **IceBear** » Wed Nov 25, 2015 10:53 am

RMC wrote:Is Spiderman still showing up in this little shin dig?

And I actually like these movies, the wife will go to see them with me, and she hates comics, but she likes the fast pace of the movies(And I think she just likes to go out to movies with me. )

I actually read all the Civil War comics, and there is a ton of dark/depth to the comics, and the movie will gloss over some of the overtones, but that is fine as I don't really need that level of darkness in a popcorn flick.

What's interesting is we bought my son an Iron Spider costume for Halloween and it was listed as being Civil War merchandise. So that implies Spiderman is in it enough that Tony makes him a suit of armor? That or just marketing for the toys and costumes.